The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Gunsmithing or Modifications for your Rohrbaugh => Topic started by: JMH on August 31, 2017, 08:13:17 PM

Title: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on August 31, 2017, 08:13:17 PM
Hello; My first post. Much enjoy reading though and have learned from you all. Thank you. I own serial no. 3069. It had just under 100 rounds fired when it developed a problem. Very difficult to rack the slide. Have to make multiple tries and use a fast forceful motion to get the slide to pull back more than about a 1/2 inch. First happened after 2 magazines. Noted the gun warmed up a bit but not much. Then last week fired 4 more magazines and the problem became severe. I suspected an out-of-spec roll pin. It might be heating and expanding and introducing drag. Not the roll pin, first I replaced it and then took it out all together. Same symptom. Happens just past where you can see the roll pin. I see nothing out of place but only have the one R9 so no comparison is possible. There is slight scoring  on the inside of the slide (roll pin) but nothing else. Can't feel any burrs or observe galling on the slide. I called Williams Gun Sight where I purchase spares (thank you all for the referral), and Gunsmith Alex said he had not experienced this problem (there is a Gunsight Alex there too). Wondering if there is any recommendation on this? You all seem very knowledgeable and I can tell you respect this firearm greatly. Me too. I am in Tampa Bay. Any help appreciated. You folks make me want a second one of these. They are really something special. I worry about getting someone who will know how to address this problem. Sorry for the long message.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: tracker on August 31, 2017, 08:46:26 PM
Welcome, JMH. Your problem is one I haven't heard about in 13 years on this forum. Eric would be the best authority on this unusual issue. I have experienced a similar situation where the roll pin wasn't fully initially inserted but not after firing several magazines. Could the pin have backed out somehow?
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: johnny on August 31, 2017, 09:26:21 PM
Welcome JMH.
Yes Eric will probably have a good idea of the issue.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: PhilZ on August 31, 2017, 09:34:36 PM
Does the slide move smoothly with the takedown pin out? 
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 01, 2017, 02:56:00 PM
Thank you for weighing in. All appreciated. Problem occurs with or without roll pin and with the magazine in or out. In my hand it feels like something 'hits' and stops the slide and after then several tries with considerable force and a sudden motion, the slide seems to 'jump' past the obstacle and it works smoothly the rest of the way to its limit of travel. I am baffled. Just knowing it is not something that happens with regularity is an important insight.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: offrdmania on September 01, 2017, 05:46:54 PM
What if you pull the barrel and the recoil rod out of the slide? Try that and see if the empty slide moves along the frame just as tight or if it smooths out with these items removed. It will help eliminate areas to consider.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 01, 2017, 07:08:22 PM
Great suggestion offrdmania! Thank you. Your idea was a springboard to a new way to look at the problem. I did as you suggested and without the assembly and barrel, the slide is smooth as can be. So, I put only the barrel back in and held the R9 upside down to help keep the barrel flush with the top of the slide. I was able to replicate the problem with only the barrel in place. But I don't see anything that might cause the barrel to impair slide travel. So while I feel like I am closer to understanding what is going on, I am not able to explain why it is happening. Anyone recall anything similar? All contributions much appreciated. At this point I would be happy to discover the fix and have a working R9 and a big red spot on my forehead from my palm hitting me in the head.
Title: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: offrdmania on September 01, 2017, 10:35:53 PM
Take a look at where the barrel rubs against the underside of the slide when you rack it, as seen below. You can see the rub marks on the top of the barrel. A lot of times this edge on the slide gets marred up causing too much material to grind against the top of the barrel. Have you greased up this point or put some oil on it to lessen the friction?

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170902/48f97650b6210ca4bcca588db433f5ff.jpg)
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 02, 2017, 02:04:40 PM
Great photo offrdmania! Serious macro lens. I do not see any wear on my barrel or slide but with fewer than 100 rounds fired it might not be readily visible. I did measure and the slide travels about 5mm before the barrel 'hits' something very solid. At this point I can just see the left edge of the hole in the frame where the roll pin is inserted. Do you think the barrel is supposed to move out of the way somehow? At least now I know barrel in=problem, barrel out=smooth slide motion.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: MRC on September 02, 2017, 02:47:21 PM
Is the pin inserted through the barrel lug correctly?

What I am talking about does it go through the hole that cams the barrel down.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: tracker on September 02, 2017, 10:24:14 PM
As noted above the pin insertion was my initial thought about this issue. The only time I experienced a similar situation was when I didn't have the pin fully inserted correctly.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on September 03, 2017, 05:32:32 PM
All good responses here thus far, as usual, and, of course, welcome to the forum JMH. So far, so good here.

J, do you have the means to take photographs of the inside of the slide, the lug on the bottom of the barrel and the frame where the barrel lug rides through? If you can, please post those for me here and I will examine that area with hopeful results.

Regards,

Eric C. Rohrbaugh

Oh, and PS: You don't need no stinkin' gunsmith with us around. lol. TTYS
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: kevinqjhps on September 04, 2017, 03:07:24 PM
It happens on ALL my guns when I fire more than 2-3 mags. Barely gets so hot it is like everything is welded, BUT with just a barrel in place I would get a BRIGHT light and a GOOD glass and look for 'the unusual.

If you only have only one gun, nothing to compare it to, send me your e-mail and i will tale a load of pice that may help. It is NOT a major problem, just a unusual one. Check and if you want pics just ask.


kevinqjhps



p.s. welcome!







 
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: kevinqjhps on September 04, 2017, 03:12:08 PM
Take a look at where the barrel rubs against the underside of the slide when you rack it, as seen below. You can see the rub marks on the top of the barrel. A lot of times this edge on the slide gets marred up causing too much material to grind against the top of the barrel. Have you greased up this point or put some oil on it to lessen the friction?

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170902/48f97650b6210ca4bcca588db433f5ff.jpg)



Great idea. ALWATS start with the simplest thing first.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 05, 2017, 12:58:37 PM
Grease to the barrel and slide around ejection area definitely helped. Thank you offrdmania. But problem remains. I made a video that might help. If you want to see it, copy and paste this link in your browser: https://youtu.be/BnkcaDy62cw

Also, took photos and one of them might shed light on problem. Photos show the grease and hopefully this will not obscure view. Also, I compressed the photos to be small enough to meet the specification of this forum. I have them in much higher resolutions.

I have no explanation for what is happening. Everything seems in order to me. Your ideas much appreciated.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on September 05, 2017, 04:36:47 PM
Hello J,

You need to phone me. I have some questions for you.

631 - 875 - 5318

Speak with you soon. Let's see what we can do here.

Regards,

Eric Rohrbaugh
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: offrdmania on September 05, 2017, 04:52:38 PM
Grease to the barrel and slide around ejection area definitely helped. Thank you offrdmania. But problem remains. I made a video that might help. If you want to see it, copy and paste this link in your browser: https://youtu.be/BnkcaDy62cw

Also, took photos and one of them might shed light on problem. Photos show the grease and hopefully this will not obscure view. Also, I compressed the photos to be small enough to meet the specification of this forum. I have them in much higher resolutions.

I have no explanation for what is happening. Everything seems in order to me. Your ideas much appreciated.

I have an idea. If you reassemble the slide and install it back onto the frame but don't install the pin... Does it still bind 5mm back?
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 06, 2017, 08:28:54 AM
Hello Eric, Would much appreciate your input. I will call between 12 & 1 Eastern. Hello offrdmania, good question. I was able to replicate the symptom with a replacement roll pin from Williams Gun and then without any roll pin. At the point where the slide hits something (approx. 5mm from 'at rest' position) the edge of the hole in the frame for the roll pin is just barely visible. On another topic, I noticed the four photographs I uploaded are not with my previous post. I made certain that all four combined were well under the size limit. Learning curve probably. But that is for another day.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on September 06, 2017, 05:55:39 PM
Good discussion today J. Hopefully you can make her well again.

Please let me know how you make out.

Eric R.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: tracker on September 06, 2017, 06:02:14 PM
Please keep us all posted.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 24, 2017, 08:04:16 PM
Hello All; Back after Irma. And no complaints from me. We were very, very, fortunate compared to others. I've had time to think about your suggestions including an insight from ECR. Thank you all for your time and consideration.  With your input I am thinking before I begin filing or sanding etc. (on anything) I should try substitution. I was thinking about what ECR shared about Rohrbaugh's custom machined parts. Variations of really tight tolerances could be invisible to the naked eye. I just have no idea if the barrel or the slide is out of tolerance and the difference must be very minor since the slide  kind of works. So I am considering looking for a barrel to swap out next week. I suspect  the solution is either a barrel or slide replacement(black box).  If anyone has a barrel for sale I would be happy to invest in trying this out before I do any damage with a file or emery cloth. Any terms you say. Even a loaner with a big deposit or another Owner in Tampa Bay willing to meet could be worked out. But without a barrel or slide appreciating that this is a remarkable device I would buy another in a New York Minute without hesitation. Does it sound like I am on the right track or have I missed something? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: offrdmania on September 24, 2017, 09:46:57 PM
Hello All; Back after Irma. And no complaints from me. We were very, very, fortunate compared to others. I've had time to think about your suggestions including an insight from ECR. Thank you all for your time and consideration.  With your input I am thinking before I begin filing or sanding etc. (on anything) I should try substitution. I was thinking about what ECR shared about Rohrbaugh's custom machined parts. Variations of really tight tolerances could be invisible to the naked eye. I just have no idea if the barrel or the slide is out of tolerance and the difference must be very minor since the slide  kind of works. So I am considering looking for a barrel to swap out next week. I suspect  the solution is either a barrel or slide replacement(black box).  If anyone has a barrel for sale I would be happy to invest in trying this out before I do any damage with a file or emery cloth. Any terms you say. Even a loaner with a big deposit or another Owner in Tampa Bay willing to meet could be worked out. But without a barrel or slide appreciating that this is a remarkable device I would buy another in a New York Minute without hesitation. Does it sound like I am on the right track or have I missed something? Thanks in advance.

The only 9mm barrels that I know of are the overpriced ones on eBay unless Eric has a few hidden away for a rainy day
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: MRC on September 25, 2017, 08:19:54 AM
Remington has hired William's Gunsights to handle warranty work  for the Rohrbaughs.

Call them and they would probably fix your gun under warranty.  They replaced a bad barrel in mine that came that way from the factory.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 25, 2017, 10:49:47 AM
I will call Williams Tuesday and follow up. Thank you for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 26, 2017, 01:28:24 PM
Spoke with Alex at Williams Gun Sight today and learned he has no more barrels. He explained that if the barrel was the problem Remington might offer a replacement from their product line. But there is nothing comparable to an R9 in my view so the search continues.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: MRC on September 26, 2017, 01:33:08 PM
Spoke with Alex at Williams Gun Sight today and learned he has no more barrels. He explained that if the barrel was the problem Remington might offer a replacement from their product line. But there is nothing comparable to an R9 in my view so the search continues.

Did you ask him if the problem is covered by warranty?  I do not know what your problem is but if it is covered under warranty I would have Alex's Gunsmiths take a look at it and see if they can't fix it.

There are barrels on ebay but those are probably rejects or seconds.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on September 26, 2017, 08:26:07 PM
I spoke with Alex today at Williams Gun Sight (Very responsive and helpful). He explained. 'If the barrel is out of spec and the cause of the problem the matter gets turned over to Remington. They would honor the warranty and offer a replacement. Alex did not know what kind of replacement but it is likely the RM380 or R51 would be the only choices. This is respectable policy and I appreciate the support but I have handled both of these in gun shops and without criticism they are just not comparable IMHO. These R9's are really remarkable and I am going to try to get it working right. I will update on any progress. Thank you.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: tracker on September 26, 2017, 09:06:11 PM
Remington may have some R-9s in their back stash--just sayin'.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: offrdmania on September 26, 2017, 10:14:35 PM
I spoke with Alex today at Williams Gun Sight (Very responsive and helpful). He explained. 'If the barrel is out of spec and the cause of the problem the matter gets turned over to Remington. They would honor the warranty and offer a replacement. Alex did not know what kind of replacement but it is likely the RM380 or R51 would be the only choices. This is respectable policy and I appreciate the support but I have handled both of these in gun shops and without criticism they are just not comparable IMHO. These R9's are really remarkable and I am going to try to get it working right. I will update on any progress. Thank you.

You may have to just bit the bullet (no pun intended) and buy one of the barrels on ebay
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: MRC on September 26, 2017, 10:17:01 PM
I would send it to Williams and let them diagnose it.  If they can't fix it, it is still yours to do what you want with it.

What do you think is wrong with the barrel?  That to me is a strange problem if the gun had worked at one time.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on September 30, 2017, 04:12:46 PM
Just to step in here:  J and I have held conversation. I remember "something" in his S.N. range was happening with the locked slide thing, but slipped my mind. Spoke with my brother and we both hit it......... I found a barrel to send to J and he will try that. Hopefully it works just fine and he will be back in business. I may as well let you all in on the details:

The early slides were 17-4 ph stainless steel. The barrels are 416 stainless steel. Working with Smith & Wesson who were doing our heat treatment at the time and frame coatings, we found out something interesting. Smith used the same materials for both their slides and barrels. Our R9 slide and barrels were made of different stainless steel grades. This was causing a ridge to form on the top of the barrel where the lockup was due to the dissimilar materials. Simply buff off that ridge and that solves that issue. Being the peening of the slide and the barrel hardened the area, once you smooth out that ridge, you were usually good to go after that. That seems to be what J is experiencing.

Now, with that said, and me speaking on the phone with J., we were originally going to exchange monies for the barrel, however, after speaking with him and understanding he was the original owner, I refused taking any monies due to the fact that that R9 would have been warrantied if we were still in business. That said, I sent J one of my last 9mm barrels no charge to hopefully repair his gun. Even though we are no longer in business almost 4 years now, I felt the obligation to rectify this issue if I could. I am waiting, like you good folks, to hear the outcome here once he installs the barrel in his R9.

Let's cross our fingers for a successful run!  Ha haa . . . . .

Hope it works out for us J. !

Keep us posted please. (Call me when you get the barrel too) ;-)

Regards,

Eric R.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: Buffalo on September 30, 2017, 04:57:51 PM
And that is why I love my R9.

As I told my local FFL... I don't know of any other firearm maker that would do something like this for a customer AFTER they're no longer making them
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: offrdmania on September 30, 2017, 08:07:14 PM
Just to step in here:  J and I have held conversation. I remember "something" in his S.N. range was happening with the locked slide thing, but slipped my mind. Spoke with my brother and we both hit it......... I found a barrel to send to J and he will try that. Hopefully it works just fine and he will be back in business. I may as well let you all in on the details:

The early slides were 17-4 ph stainless steel. The barrels are 416 stainless steel. Working with Smith & Wesson who were doing our heat treatment at the time and frame coatings, we found out something interesting. Smith used the same materials for both their slides and barrels. Our R9 slide and barrels were made of different stainless steel grades. This was causing a ridge to form on the top of the barrel where the lockup was due to the dissimilar materials. Simply buff off that ridge and that solves that issue. Being the peening of the slide and the barrel hardened the area, once you smooth out that ridge, you were usually good to go after that. That seems to be what J is experiencing.

Now, with that said, and me speaking on the phone with J., we were originally going to exchange monies for the barrel, however, after speaking with him and understanding he was the original owner, I refused taking any monies due to the fact that that R9 would have been warrantied if we were still in business. That said, I sent J one of my last 9mm barrels no charge to hopefully repair his gun. Even though we are no longer in business almost 4 years now, I felt the obligation to rectify this issue if I could. I am waiting, like you good folks, to hear the outcome here once he installs the barrel in his R9.

Let's cross our fingers for a successful run!  Ha haa . . . . .

Hope it works out for us J. !

Keep us posted please. (Call me when you get the barrel too) ;-)

Regards,

Eric R.

I need to be a gunsmith, I told him to look at the same spot on page 1  ;) Im just messing around with you Eric. Way to go out of the way for your customers.  ;D
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on October 04, 2017, 09:23:31 PM
Update. Thanks to the generosity of ECR (both time and effort) I got an education and learned more about what I am dealing with. I count myself very fortunate to have a Rohrbaugh founding father take an interest in my R9. I am in your debt Sir. If you won't accept payment then a donation to your favorite charity maybe? I feel it is appropriate. Please let me know. You have my information. Anyway, a small carton was in my PO Box on Tuesday and you can imagine my anticipation. Unwrapped it and swapped out the barrels and after about 5-10 racks of the slide I again could not rack the slide. Rats! But this time I knew where to look and at 15X with magnifier glasses there it was. A ridge had formed on the top leading edge of the new barrel. But now I have an extra barrel for a back up so I took a very fine file and a strip of 400 grit to the leading edge of the original barrel. Voila! Smooth slide! I tried to be careful and keep it square but the proof will be a trip to the range. If I can run a few magazines without knocking a new ridge on to the barrel the problem may be solved. Between the barrel and slide and roll pin are very precise timing and I wonder if I can compensate for what might be a slight variance of the slide's ejection port location? Any thoughts? Once again, can't say enough for ECR. No way would have gotten this far without you. 
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on October 13, 2017, 08:15:22 PM
Update. Thanks to the generosity of ECR (both time and effort) I got an education and learned more about what I am dealing with. I count myself very fortunate to have a Rohrbaugh founding father take an interest in my R9. I am in your debt Sir. If you won't accept payment then a donation to your favorite charity maybe? I feel it is appropriate. Please let me know. You have my information. Anyway, a small carton was in my PO Box on Tuesday and you can imagine my anticipation. Unwrapped it and swapped out the barrels and after about 5-10 racks of the slide I again could not rack the slide. Rats! But this time I knew where to look and at 15X with magnifier glasses there it was. A ridge had formed on the top leading edge of the new barrel. But now I have an extra barrel for a back up so I took a very fine file and a strip of 400 grit to the leading edge of the original barrel. Voila! Smooth slide! I tried to be careful and keep it square but the proof will be a trip to the range. If I can run a few magazines without knocking a new ridge on to the barrel the problem may be solved. Between the barrel and slide and roll pin are very precise timing and I wonder if I can compensate for what might be a slight variance of the slide's ejection port location? Any thoughts? Once again, can't say enough for ECR. No way would have gotten this far without you.

Sorry J, I've not been here as my computer went ka-put a few weeks back and I just got it back from my guy. I thank you for your offer towards a charity, however, I leave that in your hands, I'm ok as we are. Anyway, interesting that the ridge came back. That did happen with a few guns after I cut the ridge off during warranty work, but sometimes they would get the ridge again. All we can do is keep an eye on the situation with your R9 and see what we can do down the line if that persists. Glad to have been able to help somewhat with the problem.

Stay safe.

Eric R.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on October 17, 2017, 07:54:10 PM
Hello ECR! Good to hear from you. I too have been tied up and unable to test my R9 but have hopes for a range visit this week. I will update on the results and would appreciate any comment. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on October 18, 2017, 07:14:19 PM
Sounds good J.

Eric R.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: pjames32 on October 19, 2017, 01:04:22 PM
Great thread. I'm glad ECR is HERE and willing to help us with any problems that crop up!
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on October 19, 2017, 06:59:57 PM
And that is why I love my R9.

As I told my local FFL... I don't know of any other firearm maker that would do something like this for a customer AFTER they're no longer making them

Thank You Buffalo. It's simply the proper thing to do.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on October 19, 2017, 07:01:16 PM
Great thread. I'm glad ECR is HERE and willing to help us with any problems that crop up!

I will do whatever I can James.   ;-)

Eric R.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: JMH on November 01, 2017, 08:13:20 PM
I am so impressed with everyone here helping out with ideas and being willing to share their experiences. Don't know what I would have done without ECR's assistance. With the spare barrel in hand I carefully stroked the original barrel with a file only to make the slide rack smoothly. And by last week was able to visit the range. Lots of anticipation in the weeks between receiving the barrel from ECR and being able to make the time to get to the range. But, by the second magazine the barrel was again deformed and I could not rack the slide so I stopped shooting it. But this time I got it home and cleaned it and again took a file to the barrel. Mind you, in the smallest of increments. It is smooth again and the slide racks beautifully. Next time I will have what I need at the range to break down the R9 and continue the filing process to see if there is an end to it at some point. File-shoot-file-shoot, and so on. I anticipate that eventually I will have a smooth action and a sloppy fit between the barrel and slide or the gun will be 'broken in' and function normally from that point forward. I promise to update and again, thank you all for weighing in.
Title: Re: Gunsmith Recommendations
Post by: ECR on November 02, 2017, 03:51:21 PM
J . . . . . Please PM me with a contact phone number. I'd like to give you a buzz about your R9.

Thanks

Eric R.