The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => The Water Cooler -- General Discussions => Topic started by: cargaritaville on February 03, 2015, 10:06:32 PM
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I recently joined a local firearms enthusiasts group and the topic that is always the most heated is " Which QUALITY 9mm is the best one to carry?". I feel that the R9 is a great gun, and it will always be a great gun...but, I think that the time has come to appreciate them more than use and fire them. ( JMO JoshA). I was no longer comfortable putting my existence in the hands of my R9, and I have sold off the Safe Queens. I am carrying a FNS 9mm Compact or a Sig 1911 Ultra .45 (3" barrel). But that 9mm question seems to haunt everyone. I know 2 guys that have sold their R9s and replaced them with Kimber Solo CDPs. Small, Stealthlike and have gotten a lot better over time. Notice above I used the word QUALITY. To me, that rules out all the lightweight low cost pocket pistols. So, what's left?
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I recently joined a local firearms enthusiasts group and the topic that is always the most heated is " Which QUALITY 9mm is the best one to carry?". I feel that the R9 is a great gun, and it will always be a great gun...but, I think that the time has come to appreciate them more than use and fire them. ( JMO JoshA). I was no longer comfortable putting my existence in the hands of my R9, and I have sold off the Safe Queens. I am carrying a FNS 9mm Compact or a Sig 1911 Ultra .45 (3" barrel). But that 9mm question seems to haunt everyone. I know 2 guys that have sold their R9s and replaced them with Kimber Solo CDPs. Small, Stealthlike and have gotten a lot better over time. Notice above I used the word QUALITY. To me, that rules out all the lightweight low cost pocket pistols. So, what's left?
I have no problem at all with your opinion carga, nor do I think anyone else here does either. Some people probably really don't even NEED to carry and are armed to the teeth with a R9 in the pocket.
Most of us have lots of different guns for lots of different applications. The R9 is a class act that when reliable (underscore and highlight) it is a formidable, pocketable fire-breathing dragon.
The solo is great if you want small, but a bit too big for my pocket typically.
Then there is of course the poly framed single stack - XDS, shield and Walther pps (nice pistol IMO)
Then move to G26 H&k p 2000 SK
Then metal framed 9s. 239 is a nice gun, but heavy and single stack.
Then double stack poly and aluminum. Lots of choices here. Too many to cover really.
Those are the ones I consider anyway. I'm sure there are more exotic guns out there.
For me I look at what gives the most results for the lightest weight. For instance the Kimber solo, Glock 26 and 19 are awesome deliverers. When I move up to heavier guns I want them to help mitigate some recoil. Like the sig 239 In .357 sig or the .45 Kimber ultra carry II. That's a heavy gun for me to carry, but I'm a wuss.
The R9 is going to be an ankle or pocket carry for me when the shirt is tucked and I don't feel like I can go IWB.
But if I lived in the mountains and the people were all friendly or far enough in the sticks when I didn't see people much or I was shuffle boarding every day and my biggest fear was someone cutting in line I would probably only pocket carry. Why not?
That being what it is, I am probably looking to get a G 29 next. Not really a pocket pistol : )
Like carga I would like to hear of what other quality 9mm's you guys appreciate to add to my bucket list.
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The one you guys are looking for is still on the drawing board but it will appear one of these days.
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The Glock 42 in 380 is still selling like crazy.
When the Glock single stack 9mm (I assume G43) comes out at the NRA Meeting in April, that is all we will hear about. I really think it will be a clone of the PM9 but the Glock name sells.
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The Glock 42 in 380 is still selling like crazy.
When the Glock single stack 9mm (I assume G43) comes out at the NRA Meeting in April, that is all we will hear about. I really think it will be a clone of the PM9 but the Glock name sells.
i agree with the g43 being the hot seller....i just hope it is more reliable than the kahr i bough.....TOTAL GARBAGE...SENT BACK TO KAHR AND THEY COULDNT EVEN GET IT RIGHT......althought it was the cw380 model...i just couldnt buy another kahr....i love my rohrbaugh and it has functioned flawless....so it will stay in pocket.....a close second would be a sig p938...it also rides good in the front pocket....but the little pup is just a beast......LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT......other than i cant afford to buy them all up.... :'(
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The one you guys are looking for is still on the drawing board but it will appear one of these days.
And then it will be passé and we will look for another perfect one right?
I am looking forward to the G43 or whatever they will call it, except I hate carrying sore Glock mags because they are so thick. Even the single stack 36 mag is huge compared to a 1911 or Kahr or Springfield mag.
I've not been ecstatic about my Kahr's reliability either.
Very few light and small pistols are über reliable it seems.
Glock has a leg up with its minimal parts requirements, but that thick slide is a lot of weight.
Hope to see it soon and shoot one.
I don't think Norm will settle for a Glock though. Get a browning hi power Norman.
What about the H&k VP9 or the H&K P7 or the new sig compact 1911 in 9mm? You could probably get a shweet companion for the 45 ultra Ya got.
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If I got the Browning I would need a hand truck to carry it. Weighs over 2 lbs!
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Nobody mentioned the Beretta Nano. Anyone have any experiences with it?
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The Glock 42 in 380 is still selling like crazy.
When the Glock single stack 9mm (I assume G43) comes out at the NRA Meeting in April, that is all we will hear about. I really think it will be a clone of the PM9 but the Glock name sells.
i agree with the g43 being the hot seller....i just hope it is more reliable than the kahr i bough.....TOTAL GARBAGE...SENT BACK TO KAHR AND THEY COULDNT EVEN GET IT RIGHT......althought it was the cw380 model...i just couldnt buy another kahr....i love my rohrbaugh and it has functioned flawless....so it will stay in pocket.....a close second would be a sig p938...it also rides good in the front pocket....but the little pup is just a beast......LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT......other than i can afford to buy them all up.... :'(
I have had nothing but good luck with Kahr. I have a P40, PM9, and P380 and all have been flawless. I keep buying new things, but if I would have stuck with the PM9 6 years ago I would still be happy.
The 938, I do not want a single action in my pocket.
True, the R9 carries like a 380. I took my R9, my PM9, my Solo, and my XR9 all to the range to test accuracy and accuracy with speed. The R9 came in 4th. I do not carry a pistol for comfort or prestige, I carry for protection.
The R9 is probably the best possible backup available, but expensive.
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What about the H&k VP9 or the H&K P7 or the new sig compact 1911 in 9mm? You could probably get a shweet companion for the 45 ultra Ya got.
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Nobody mentioned the Beretta Nano. Anyone have any experiences with it?
I'm not sure if it was a pico or nano I held for the first time today, but I didn't care for the safety or the general look of it in the hand. They look cool in the magazines, but in the hand it was ugly TO ME. No real experience though.
the one gun that did kinda strike me as ok is the new Springfield XDG I think it was. If you weren't into Glock it's ok IMO. Pointed naturally, good rep for reliability and customer service. If you like Glocks I don't see a reason to add one to the mix though. A bit heavier and it looks like a higher bore axis.
Not sure if this is interesting to you or not, but I just got off the phone with sig to get some details and they are going to release the ultra compact like the one you have in 9mm in a couple months. Just an FYI if it's not interesting.
Are you looking for something smaller carga?
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I'm looking for the impossible...another gun as sexy as the R9, built as well as the R9, as light as the R9, as small as the R9,...but 100% reliable in my mind. My Caspian 1911 .45 will never have to go further than 1 mile from my home to be repaired, if it ever needs to. There is no part on it that cannot be bought from as many as 5 other quality suppliers incl. Wilson Combat. I will never need to worry about parts, warranty work, or any of the other bullshit that will arise when Remington runs out of parts...and they will. The older I get, I am not into high maintenance anything...except my sexy wife of 32 years. That item I cannot replace.
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What don't you like about the solo?
Just a tiny bit longer than the R9. Just a smidge wider. Great customer support. Only $650. Lots of shweet grip and other options including night sites and laser grips. They make a hot all black model. With the pinky extension (aluminum) you get a full hand grip. Great sites. Shoots like a larger gun truly. Spare mag rides like a dream in the pocket. Rides amazingly IWB and ankle carry. MRC likes his in the pocket. As close to 100% reliable as you are going to get when using 124 and 147 grain. +p capable.
Oh.And it's MRC recomended (thanks for the good tip to buy the solo MRC)
Why not give it a try?
If you think you are remotely interested I would go to the solo forum and see what other owners think of them.
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IMO for most of us, the pistol matters a whole lot less than the brain. First, carry something that you trust and that you will carry always and every day, if only to the corner market or to visit a neighbor (republican, of course). Secondly, use the first principle of self protection, ie: situational awareness to avoid conflict. At age 72 I will no longer ever be able to win a physical conflict with an unarmed but violent, young and aggressive opponent...If I kill or wound him with my pistol, my life and my retirement income will be in the hands of attorneys for many years...yet what are my options?
I trust my R9 to do its job at the distance that I will actually ever need it, but I fear the consequence of even a truly "good shoot". A Kimber pepper spray is a great option, but it is really a not tiny carry piece, bulky at best; yet it may still offer a way out in the circumstance of an unarmed but strong, young, violent attacker who would very likely do me in with fists and feet. My best protection is to never inadvertently place myself at risk.
I really don't think that night sights (or any sights), double stacks, etc., will ever be what I will most likely need in an unavoidable conflict at 7 yards or less. If I have any warning, I guarantee I will have my shotgun and my AR in hand, not any available 9mm pistol. Excepting that circumstance, my R9 will be my EDC. It has been totally reliable (as has been my backup R9) and carries better than my Solo or any of my other valued and pampered handguns. Sometimes we just get over the top in our plans and expectations...remember "the best laid plans of mice and men gang oft aglay" which means we should avoid over-thinking the situations and, basically KISS (keep it simple, stupid). Just sayin'.
John
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I agree with everything you say here backup.
The only thing I am wondering about is if everyone's main threat would be one Murderous attacker at 7 yards.
There are a few other scenarios my cautiously pessimistic mind dreams up.
Of course I'm 43 with a family of 7 in a bustling metropolis which does have some gang activity. We are also not that far from chicago and our crime and gun related violence increases month by month.
That all being said, I don't think that my prescription for being confidently protected should fit all.
If I had a military or LE background I would probably carry double what do now. If I lived and worked in a rural community I would carry 1/2 of what I do now, but I always want to carry something.
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Which 9mm to carry?
Carry the one you can shoot the best and fits into a method of concealment you are comfortable with.
This does not always mean to carry the smallest most easy to conceal!
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So what did you decide on cargarittavile?
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I've decided not to decide...for now. I'm carrying my new FNS 9 Compact & my new Sig 1911 Ultra. I love these 2 guns. I wish they were a bit smaller, but...
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Ya know my father in law is an older car guy (60) and he can't stand anything but a 1911. He is set that's the only gun worthy of carry. Plastic guns don't have any class or craftsmanship. I can't blame him. His pops (still alive) carried one in a tank in WWII and he grew up hearing stories from his dad and uncles about the reputed fame of the 1911.
There seems to be ALOT that goes into the decision of what one carries and why.
Edit: oh I forgot to mention that he does not carry. If he did it would possibly be a 3" or a 938/238. I mention this because if he did carry he may open his mind to different options. He is more of a range kind of guy.
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Must read IMO
It's by Massad Ayoob in regards to debunking 7 myths surrounding gun fight.
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/10/5-gunfighting-myths-debunked-massad-ayoob/#armed-and-ready
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Love reading Ayoob's stuff. Note, however, that most of these were LEO gunfights, often with shotguns. Hickock could have stepped behind a building and walked away. The average JQ citizen is highly unlikely to require 40 rounds (would likely be long dead), or have run away, or have never been placed in danger. Also note the reference to a pelvis shot, something I have discussed in another thread...a good way to put someone on the ground, but he then must be finished or you must seek cover or run. It's sort of the Law of Diminishing Returns...no one of us is likely to run into someone toting a .223 and two pistols. If we do, a .45 and two extra mags is not likely be ultimately any more effective than a 7 shot 9mm and I would just feel really silly with an AR under my raincoat all day. I carry larger and carry extra on occasion, but only when I'm feeling fey, or when circumstances suggest increased risk.
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In typical Backup9 fashion, that was very well put. I wholeheartedly agree. I also, don't see the need for packing as if I were an officer of agent. I don't even carry a back up pistol 99.9% of the time and unless I'm carrying a single stack 9 I don't carry a spare mag.
That being the case I did find a lot of the article interesting and insightful.
Thought provoking comment Backup9. Thanks.
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The best 9mm depend on how you carry. If it's a pocket carry, than its a mini. If it's a car carry, then I would go with a 1911. If I was a clerk at a 711, I want a 28 shot RIA. As you move out of the pocket guns, then single actios become the ticket
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I like my H&K USPC in .40 as my car gun. 13 rounds, safety/decocker with single/double action and a second 12 round mag. It has practically no recoil and never fails with any decent ammo. Sadly, if I fired it in the car I'd likely have some significant hearing damage but not as bad as the sharp "crack" of a 9mm...worth it I guess. It wears a Streamlight strobe and doubles as my bedside gun...useful primarily if I don't have time to reach the 12 gauge leaning behind the headboard. I do believe in heavy "artillery" in situations where ability to retreat is limited and avoidance impossible.
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Does anyone here think that the Sig P938 9mm is the most similar to the R9? (weight, caliber, build quality? ).
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I own a 938 and its an ok pistol IMO.
I do not see how it compares to an R9 except in size.
For me it boils down to:
Likes
1) size
2) cool factor (totally opinion)
3) reliability (however mine suffers an occasional light strike which is due to its hammer design likely)
4) nice backup if you carry a 1911 platform
5) single action trigger
6) decent sights and accuracy
7) decent recoil management for a small package
Disses
1) single action trigger system makes for a poor pocket carry TO ME
2) single action is STIFF
3) hammer design develops some light strikes ON MINE
4) it has a safety which MUST be used IMO
5) the market is flooded with them (may not be a bad thing)
6) slightly too big for pocket carry TO ME
In final:
It's a good little gun, but gets no holster time for me. Too big for pocket, and I'm not a 1911 platform kind of guy and that's the bottom line more than anything probably.
One other concern that I'm not totally convinced is correct is that under the safety seems to be a nylon or plastic piece. Not big on plastic working parts. Maybe psychological. Maybe incorrect.
Just one guys opinion. I would like to someone else's take on it good, bad or indifferent.
If you look at the 290 R take a pass IMO. Too thick. Bad LONG trigger IMO. $.02 worth. Maybe less.
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http://www.gunsinternational.com/Kimber-Solo-Carry-DC-9mm-PARA.cfm?gun_id=100524598
This is where I would be putting my $ if I didn't have one. In fact, I'm actually tempted to buy this one. Please someone else buy it so I'm not tempted. Lol.
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Very nice, Josh, but I think I would pay a little more and buy a new one.
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Very nice, Josh, but I think I would pay a little more and buy a new one.
That's probably why I keep ending up with guns with issues. I'm buying someone else's issues. Good call Tracker.
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There may be a couple of small "pocket" nines that are out there right now,but IMO they don't come close to the Pup..
I have my carry Pup in my front pocket everyday.I have done so for ten or so years now.
Before that I had a Seecamp occupying that spot! So you can see that I value something that can be with me everyday!
I also carry IWB,or strongside carry also,normally with a 9mm or .45 cal. but I ALWAYS have the Pup in the pocket.
I haven't 'found" anything else that matches the Rohrbaugh in caliber,size,quality,effiency and just pure sexiness!!
There have been a whole lot of small 9s brought out in the last couple of years but even the "plastic" guns don't ride in the pocket like my pocket rocket..
My Pup has been nothing but great;I wouldn't depend upon it to help protect my family if it wasn't..
I do not like the idea of the Rohrbaugh being dropped from production,but I don't plan on dropping it from use in my repertoire.
I just don't see anything else out there that matches the Pup for what I need in a self defense weapon..
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My sentiments exactly, Brenden.
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I agree, Brenden
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i agree also....love mine...
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+100
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I'm looking forward to developing this type of confidence in mine as well. This many people can be wrong. That's why I bought 2 more lol. Come on weather. Just need a bit of time at the range.