SHOT Show Report

[riffraff]

Fud,

I was thinking exactly the same thing but I have come to these conclusions:

The all SS model is not going to happen in our lifetimes.
EVEN IF IT DOES:  The extremely high prices on the recent 'limited production' guns from Rohrbaugh give me the distinct inpression that if we ever do see an all SS gun, the price will be out of reach for most of us.

I am becomming extremely dissapointed with Rohrbaugh.  They seem to be content to produce 'limited run' or 'boutique' guns destined for display cases and museums and collections instead of giveing the masses what is needed, the best carry gun on the planet.  The best carry gun on the planet means an ALL SS R9 IMHO.

Mike

[ccoorreeyy]

I would like to see a all SS model too, but I'm not dissapointed.   I am very excited about the new models that are coming out.   I can't/would'nt spend that kind of money for a gun just to look at, but if I came across somebody that had one I can promise you I would be checking it out.  I will be shelling out the dough for a new r9 with O.D. green grips.

[riffraff]

I do applaud everything Rhorbaugh is doing.  They obviously know what they need to do to make money which is what all of us don't have enough of.

However,  all of the recent additons and options are just
'fluff'.  Nothing new and/or revolutionary like the introduction of the R9 was.

It is my opinion that Rhorbaugh needs to do something a little more than 'fluff" stuff or very soon another company is going to produce a gun that is a vast improvement on the R9.

The R9 has a few small 'problems' which I won't go into here as I can't type for very long because my carpel tunnel starts to kill me.

I will expound later, not that Rhoubaugh will listen.  But then they are successful and I am not so my opinions don't mean s***.

Mike

[DDGator]

Guys,

Can we keep the "stainless frames and the people who love them" discussions to another of the established threads?  Or start a new one about how disappointed you may be that a stainless frame was not introduced at the SHOT show?

No -- there is no news on stainless frames, and I thought I said before that there wouldn't be.

In some opinions, a stainless frame R-9 would make the perfect carry gun.  In its designer's opinion, an alloy frame makes the perfect carry gun.  The whole point is the smallest, lightest 9mm...

Yes, there haven't been any huge innovations since the R-9 debuted.  How many do we expect?  These guys are selling as many R-9s as they can make right now and are trying recoup a HUGE investment.   If they can sell a few more at higher price points (and they CAN) along the way with different colors or limited editions, who can criticise them?  

Karl has told me he would rather design guns all day than make guns all day -- but that doesn't pay the bank notes or the salaries or the rent.

The R-380, however, which is shipping very soon -- is a big deal.  The R-380 eliminates the "envelope pushing" problems of the 9mm and should be nearly a perfect gun if .380 ACP is enough gun for you.

As for someone coming out with a gun that is a vast improvement on the R-9, anything is possible.  But, remembering the mission -- smallest, lighest 9mm -- I don't believe that anything more than very minor incremental downsizing is even possible given the laws of physics.  Karl should know --  he tried for years.  

The R-9 prototype came out at SHOT 2003.  For five years, nothing else has come close.  Don't tell me that Kel-Tec isn't trying...  

One other thing -- I don't see any reason that a stainless steel frame would be markedly more expensive than current models.  The price increases in the limited edition models relate to higher labor costs, higher material costs, and limited availability.

[riffraff]

Duane,

The moderators of this forum have the ability to 'split' threads into a seperate thread if the topic of the thread goes to far off.   It is the norm for message boards to always go off topic and to usually stray into a couple or three different areas than the original thread post was about.  This is the way of message boards.  It can't be changed.  Be moderators and 'split' the threads or please quite complaining about how the thread has wandered from the original topic.

Moderators:  Do your job or recruit some additional moderators.  I am a former moderator of a gun board so I know of what I speak on this matter.

Mike

[DDGator]

I am the only active moderator.  Luckily this board requires little moderation.  I have made a polite request.  Please honor it.  I am not shutting anyone up, just directing traffic. Thanks.

[riffraff]

Duane,

I intended no offense.  I thought that TheIrishGuard also had moderator privelages.

I understand that you believe that this board requires little moderator input but since you don't have the time to split threads I humbly suggest that you should recruit a person or two to assist you in the moderation of this board.

I will not do it and I know you have no intention of asking me.  I have been through the grinder on a gun board that was far more difficult to moderate than this and I did it for 3 or 4 years.  

Duane, you do need some help even if you don't think so.

Mike

[garymass]

Thanks for the update, I hope one of these days I will get out there!

[theirishguard]

It seems to me that Rohrbaugh is doing several things:

1. build the best quality and lightest 9mm carry pistol to defend ones life. Building and shipping as many R9s as quality will allow. This it seems pays the bills. The bros have a hugh investment here. It needs to make money to continue.

2. coming up with some different models or versions of the R9 to keep the end users excited and happy.

3. building the R380 for those who find it easier and better to shoot. Many ladies could use this as well as some guys who don't like the higher recoil.

4. design and build a R45. Again a high quality carry pistol in .45acp, a major caliber. Maybe not a pocket pistol but a light weight carry one.

These are lofty goals that should make us all happy. However, it seems to not satisfy us all. An all stainless pistol would be much heaver and they think takes away from the ease of carrying all day. It could happen some day but to complain about it not happening now and often seems counter productive. Remember it's their business and their necks out on the line here. Why can't we be happy to have a great, light weight, small pocket carry 9mm pistol.

And why is the request of the moderator not honored!? We can still state our wishes but in proper place.

Ok I'm off my soap box.  Tom

[riffraff]

Well Tom, to answer your query about "why can't we be happy to have a great, light weight, small pocket carry 9mm pistol".

It is the human condition to never be satisfied.  No matter how good we have it we always want a little bit more.  This will never change.

The request of the moderator seems to me to be an attempt to stifle some views.  This is a fine board.  I have no desire to p*** anyone off, BUT, if you don't like my views, tough s***.

I am not trying to raise anyone's blood presssure.  I am trying to make myself absolutly clear.  Once again if you don't want this post in this thread then split it to a different subforum.  If posters post something that I wish to reply to I am not going to start  a new thread in a different subforum.  That would be to hard to follow as the flow of the thread would be lost.

Mike

[DDGator]

Losing the flow of the thread is why I don't care for spliting them -- plus its a waste of my time.  I normally don't care so much, but this thread will get a lot of reads from people who just want to know what happened at SHOT.  At this point, though, I suppose its too late as it has been effectively hijacked.

Just so you know, I don't pay big bucks for forum software.  Yabb doesn't support splitting of threads.

I am getting tired of this debate though.  Its my forum (supported by the help of a few advertisers and one anonymous regular donor) and I'll run it how I like.  

Just for the record, again, I am not stiffling any ideas, although I guess I could if I felt like it.  I have deleted a grand total of about 2 threads in the lifetime of this board, and deleted portions of 5-10 posts.  NEVER for what the poster said, but ALWAYS for the way in which it was said. I will censor poor manners when I have to.  This forum is very civilized and I intend for it to remain that way.  

Lets move on.  Does anyone have anything to say about the SHOT Show?

[tracker]

Yes, and thank you, Duane for running a fine forum.
Have you seen anything else of interest you would care to share?

[DDGator]

I am doing a review of the show for CCM.  

A few interesting tidbits.  The Ruger LCP looks like a copy of the Kel-Tec P-3AT, but with better fit an finish.  With that and the new 9mm its nice to see Ruger catering to the concealed carry market.

Colt's new compact Agent in .45 ACP is available in a DAO configuration!  A Colt DAO auto is back!  Cool.

The Winchester Model 70 is also back.  Great "MOA" trigger.

Mossberg's new SPX home defense 930 semi-auto shotgun is very cool -- complete with a top rail for mounting an optic.

Stay tuned for the article!  

[Fud]

Can you share any more info on the Colt Agent? I thought that it was a 1911 with a bobbed hammer.

[DDGator]

They have two Agent models.  They are basically compact 1911s.  One is a bobbed hammer single action model, the other is DAO.