Author Topic: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write  (Read 25125 times)

Offline Kayaker

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The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« on: January 31, 2010, 09:51:49 PM »
So I received my new Special Forces R9 a couple of weeks ago and finally found time to get to the range.    Beautiful looking little black gun. Before heading out, I took it apart and lubed it(oil).  Thanks to the info I found here, disassembly and reassembly was not very challenging and I could do it without any pliers or jigs.

 I did my homework on this forum and after failing to find suitable ammo at my local gun shops, I searched around on the web and ended up buying 500 Rds of 124 grain Hydrashocks and some WWB.  No plans on messing about with something unproven or that might work in only some R9's   My thought about buying so much ammo at once was: 1. Good price , 2. I wouldn't feel happy carrying without 200 rds of my carry ammo through the gun.

I got to the range and put 2 magazines of WWB though the gun.  No problem.  A little snappy and a second shot takes longer to get off than when I am shooting my HK P7M9, but really quite manageable for the planned application. For the third magazine full , Hydrashock.  First round FTF. Cleared that round.  Tried again, FTF.  Cleared that round(set both aside), tried again, FTF.  Repeated that entire sequence with the other mag and the same exact thing happened.  Then I thought that putting some more WWB through might "loosen things up"  One more mag WWB, no problem.  Fourth magfull, FTF but it looked like the round would feed if I pushed on the slide a little and it did.  Part way through that mag, FTE! Cleared it and shot the rest of that mag no problem.  Next mag, FTF on the first round, had to be cleared.  Another FTE in that mag!  By then I decided to stop being frustrated and put that gun away and spent the rest of the time with my P7 and Seecamp .32.

After the first FTF, I made sure that the magazine was well seated at each exchange.  I shot all the suspect rounds through my P7 ( which will eat anything, but I only feed it good stuff).  The Hydrashocks measure to be between 27.96 and 28.06 mm with a mean of 28.01mm.  The FTE's were not due to fatigue because clearing all those FTF's took time and I shot my P7 in between mags of the R9.

I understand the Rohrbaugh povides excellent customer service, but this experience  so far has been quite disappointing. It just seems to me that at this price point quality assurance should be tighter. I understand that a gun with these close tolerances can be challenging.

If anyone has any suggestions before I send this gun back for servicing, I would appreciate them.  Please do not suggest that I try different ammo as I have no other use for the Hydrashock.  They are not my preferred carry  ammo in my HK.

I do suspect that Rohrbaugh will make this right, but I also think everyone should know that all is not rosy with these little guns out of the box.  I never had a gun that was this bad out of the box, though my purchases have been skewed to guns with reported reliability out of the box ( Ruger Mk II, Secamp .32(two), Beretta 92, HK P7M8, Colt Kodiak).
      

Offline FloridaCCW

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 10:19:15 PM »
I know you are disappointed, but everything will likely be figured out.

Since you said do not recommend other ammo, I will suggest selling your Hydrashok. I am sure others will chime in as well with other recommendations.

Offline kjtrains

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 10:30:41 PM »
Kayaker.  Sorry you are having problems with your new Special Forces R9.  I can't recommend anything other than what you're doing.  I'm sure Rohrbaugh will fix anything that is wrong.

Wishing you the best, for sure.
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline BytorJr

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 10:48:41 PM »
I don't want to come across as unsympathetic, but it seems you bought the ammo strictly on price; knowing that it's not the recommended ammo.   Furthermore, from what I read, Hydrashocks are not even your ammo of choice in your other weapon platform.  

That said, as I posted earlier today, people have been quite successful with: Gold Dot, HST, Silvertip, and Hornady TAP.

Try buying two boxes of these, see if they cycle and THEN go buy a huge batch to get your 200 rounds in - that would seem to be a better approach in my opinion.  

Also, after 50 rounds or so, the gun may be getting dry and need some lubrication.  


Offline tracker

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2010, 11:05:45 PM »
Since your first two mags functioned well it is possible that you have some metal filings that have stuck someplace like the firing pin recess and is causing your failures. In addition to what Bytor said, disassemble it, blow it out with compressed air, clean and relube it. If you do this and go with the short list of recommended ammo it may work itself out.

I can feel your pain.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 11:06:22 PM by tracker »

Offline Kayaker

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Clarification and ammo choice
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2010, 11:13:57 PM »
I guess I didn't think about it, but FTF could be Failure To Feed or Failure to Fire.  I meant failure to feed.  No failure to fires.

Though price was a consideration when buying ammo, not a big one.  When searching this forum using"Hydrashock", I found that most people thought they worked reliably.  It seems to me that for this gun reliability trumps ballistics.  Whatever the ballistics of a bullet coming  from this gun trumps the ballistics of the silvertip coming out of my Seecamp .32, which is my personal competitor with my R9 ( e.g. pocket or really discreet carry)

I certainly agree with Bytor, that the Hydrashock is not a preferred cartridge for a 9 mm pistol  that will eat anything.  There are  cartridges with both better ballistics and expansion.

I don't think that the problem was my gun being dry or dirty as I started having problems on the third mag, including FTF with the WWB.  Note that FTF occurred even on the first round of the mag, when I was manually racking the slide.

Maybe we should have a survey of everyones most reliable ammo for the R9 and then score the brands(and bullet weights).  Seems like the answer will be Gold Dots.   What is second, third and fourth?  This would be useful info to have in times of limited availability.

Offline BytorJr

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 11:35:04 PM »
Certainly, I'd be highly disappointed too; please understand that.  These are expensive guns and for them not to work out of the box is going to deflate you a bit - understandably!!!!

However,  I've had good luck with Gold Dot, TAP, and HST.  Never shot Silvertip.

Since you have a Seecamp, you're probably aware of being slightly picky.   Try those 4 I mentioned and I bet you'll have a winner.  Don't give up yet.  

I hadn't even thought about metal shavings; that's possible too.  Give her a good scrub and try that other ammo.  

BTW...if you find my take-down tool...give it back.  :)




Offline Kayaker

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2010, 11:35:05 PM »
Yes, the failure to feeds happened with both mags.

Offline Kayaker

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Short term followup
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 01:37:47 AM »
So I've just cleaned and lubed my R9 and experimented a bit.  A few brass shavings were present on the frame rail and the nice black finish in those areas looked a bit gouged.  I lubed everything on the wet side and then played with the hydrashocks without firing.    They would feed fine just manually racking the slide, which they didn't do after the first dozen rounds of WWB.

Looks like the pup will get another chance at the range before going back to Deer Park.  I am still a bit uncomfortable with the thought that if my gun is a bit dry (carry alot, shoot little remember), I am toting a single shot.  Range time will tell.

Thanks for the suggestions!!

Offline kjtrains

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2010, 08:23:10 AM »
Kayaker.  Since your first two mag functioned OK, did you let the R9 cool down before shooting the 3rd mag?  You should let it cool down between each mag, as the tolerances are so tight.

You may have already tried this.  Just a thought.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 09:15:04 AM by kjtrains »
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline Kayaker

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2010, 11:26:44 AM »
I didn't consciously let it cool down, but I was shooting fairly slowly, most of the time alternating one mag each shooting my HK and R9.  I also spent a fair amount of time clearing FTF's.  I also spent time examining rounds that didn't feed and on the first FTF had to get a refresher in clearing the gun as I don't think I have had a failure to feed in over 10 years.

Offline kjtrains

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 11:41:46 AM »
Try doing it consciously.  The first two mags you fired, worked like they supposed to; did you alternate shooting the HK between the 1st and 2nd mags of the R9?  Sounds like you did.  Just checking; and if you did, just give it a little more time.  Couldn't hurt.
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline Writer_Ron

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2010, 05:42:21 PM »
Quote
Yes, the failure to feeds happened with both mags.

From another post: I guess I didn't think about it, but FTF could be Failure To Feed or Failure to Fire.  I meant failure to feed.  No failure to fires.
 

I've shot a couple of boxes of Fed HS 147 grain with no difficulty in my relatively new R9.

That being so, let me make an odd suggestion:

When I bought my first really small automatic (a Beretta Tomcat) a couple of years ago, I experienced all sorts of Failures to Feed. They stopped cold when I began to use an UpLula universal magazine loader instead of hand loading the magazines. I'm not sure what's going on, but I intend to keep doing it. (Perhaps the UpLula ensures a more uniform stack or more even spring pressure. Or maybe rounds are scratched and damaged more -- at least by me -- when hand loaded.)

I've subsequently used the UpLula for every R9 load. I've shot WWB, Fed HS, Fiocchi, Blazer Brass, and (most recently) Gold Dots -- all without FTFs.

I also have a Seecamp 32. (The UpLula "just" fits the short mags.) Also, no FTFs, even with less-than-highly-recommended ammo.

Ron


Offline tracker

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2010, 06:35:57 PM »

That sounds like an excellent suggestion that eliminates another variable. It certainly takes the strain out of high capacity mag loading, also.

Offline kjtrains

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Re: The range report I wish I didn't have 2 write
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2010, 07:00:09 PM »
Ron.  That definitely puts a new twist, so to speak, on the feeding problem.  Interesting to see if it would help the R9.
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln