Author Topic: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report  (Read 8120 times)

Offline riffraff

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2006, 10:24:44 PM »
Guinnessdog,

I bought mine new and I am haveing similar problems.
For my 4th range trip I have bought another magazine, 2 new recoil springs and am going to take about 8 different kinds of ammunition.  The only ammo that I haven't got yet is the Golden Sabers and the Hydra Shocks.  
At the end of the second range trip is was feeding Silvertips pretty good so I thought it was broke in and my problems were solved but then at the third range trip with a new box of Silvertips the pup was back to it's bad jamming habits.
I also suspect that most of my problems are magazine related.  I have been relating my experiences in other threads on this forum and will keep all informed about how things are going.  It may be a couple weeks before I get back out to the range.  
Don't feel bad Guinnessdog, I am in the same boat as you are.   I am going to keep working on the pup but I must say for the price of these things they should function better than they do.  By this I mean all of them, some have had very few problems and others have purchased a nightmare.   I have not given up yet.  One way or another I am going to make the pup work for me.  Guinessdog, you and me seem to have a lot of stick toitavness.  I wish you the best of luck and hope you will do the same for me.

Mike
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Offline Guinnessdog

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2006, 03:56:25 PM »
I'm starting to come to the belief that the problems I'm having are recoil spring related. Once I put a new spring in, there seems to be a window sometime after the first 50 rounds and before 250 where functioning is quite good. By quite good I mean one misfeed out of 50, or 98%.

When I was more youthful I spent a little time learning how to shoot people at extremely long ranges. We kept very careful track where our rifle placed its first shot fired that day. This "cold barrel round" was critical knowlege, as in a real situation one wouldn't get an opportunity to do any warming up...

Similarly, in a real self-defense situation, I don't need the pup to fire 50 rounds. If it works flawlessly when firing the first two mags, I'm totally cool with that. If I need more than two magazines full, I should be carrying a rifle, which might get me some odd looks as I go about my day.

Unfortunately, I've had many malfunctions in the first two mags using many different loads. I'm starting to doubt if I'll ever reach a level of confidence in the pup where I'd actually carry it, which makes it kind of useless.

Mike, I hope I'm wrong, but I'll keep at it and keep reporting my findings.

Offline riffraff

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2006, 04:13:23 PM »
Guinnessdog,

I have also noticed the window of decent performance with the recoil springs.  That is why a have 2 new ones for my next range trip.  I will keep you and all informed of how this plays out and if the new mag makes any difference.  I don't know about the mag.  As far as I can tell it is identical to the 2 that came with the gun.

type at you later,  Mike
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Offline groo

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range re
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2006, 07:00:24 PM »
groo here
  
  I got my pup lastweek  and I put 200 rds through it!
   And yes iI sent it back.
   the jams started about 125+  rds .
   Mr "K" replaced the barrel and r spring and test fired it.
  
    The following things are from a long talk with Mr "K".
     1#  this is not a  gun you shoot a bunch,
             shoot  3 mags and let it cool!

      2# this gun needs to be clean and lubed  not oiled
               tight guns need lube! and springs are important !
      
      3# shoot with one hand ,this is a defence gun
    
       4# use the correct ammo
                115 gr  124 gr or lighter no +p or heavy weights
                 try the rem 105 no lead loads
      
         We try to shoot the pup like any other gun which it is not


Offline Michigunner

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2006, 07:08:35 PM »
groo,

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing the information.

I had heard an earlier suggestion that the gun be fired with one hand.

Bill

Offline MountainMan

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2006, 12:33:45 AM »
Welcome Groo,

There is something to what Karl says.  I only shoot several mags at most in a session and have never had a problem.  This week only one mag when I shoot up the King book posted in another thread.  I only use 115 gr GDHP or Silvertips.

Too many people are worried about having several hundred jam free rounds through it to trust the R9 so they shoot too many in one session I feel.  
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away..."


Offline riffraff

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2006, 01:21:06 PM »
MountainMan and all,

I am not interested in several hundred jam free rounds.  I would be happy if I could get 2 mags thru it without a jam.
If I can get 2 jam free mags per range trip for 3 or 4 trips I will be happy.  Of course this includes thorough cleaning and lubrication after those 2 jam free mags.  This would be close to the conditions to be duplicated for a carry gun.   I do not carry an extra mag and even if I did have to use it for self defense it is unlikely that I would have to fire more than 2 or 3 shots so 2 jam free mags is my bottom line to feel confident in the R9S as a carry gun.

Mike
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Offline MountainMan

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2006, 01:30:06 PM »
I agree with what you say for your situation Mike.  Hope you find a solution.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away..."


Offline Guinnessdog

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2006, 12:41:07 PM »
As I've stated before, I only really expect it to operate 100% under ideal conditions, meaning: spotlessly clean, well lubed, warm from being in my pocket, firing a load it likes, and only a magazine or two. That's why I was so excited to get close to 50 rounds thru it before a jam; for a gun designed for this purpose, that's well beyond what you would ever need in an emergency.

As a comparison, I never shoot a lot of rounds in one session with my scandium J-frame .357 Smith & Wesson, as it gets a mite uncomfortable after, oh, about 1 round.

However, I know that every single time I stroke the trigger the gun will go off. I know this because I've fired over 1000 rounds thru it, and it has worked every single time.

Rant follows:

I reject the very notion of a gun that is "carried often and shot seldom." If you're carrying a gun for personal protection, you owe it to yourself and, more importantly, the general public, to be highly proficient with that gun. Not just guns in general but that particular gun. That means you have to shoot it a lot.

Maybe that means you only fire a handful of rounds at a time, but you better do it often. I know, people are busy, there's not enough time, I can't get to the range, it's too expensive, etc., etc. I feel the same way.

But if you're carrying a little gun like an R9, it is that much more important to train often, because it's that much harder to shoot well. If you can't or won't shoot often, do us all a favor and carry something bigger, that way you might actually hit what you're shooting at.

So I'm planning on shooting my R9 a lot. Maybe not all at once, just 20 rounds or so at a time, but it damn well better work right!

Rant off.


Offline riffraff

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2006, 01:16:03 PM »
Guinnessdag,

I understand your views on a carry gun and pretty much agree, however,  from the wear I have seen on the frame of the R9 and keeping in mind that the frame is an aluminum alloy I am in the camp that the R9 in ment to be carried a lot and fired a little.   I am inpressed that the R9 frame has not had a lot more of the cracking issues that I have heard about in an older batch.

On the hitting what you are aiming at issue.  I find that the R9 has a wonderfully natural pointing characteristic.  I am sure that I could not fire this gun in a couple of years but then still hit center of mass at 30 feet if the necessity arose.

Now here is what would be really cool.  An R9 with a Titanium frame like my Beretta 3032 Tomcat Titanium.  Wear and cracking would be a non issue and weight would only increase slightly.

Mike
« Last Edit: June 26, 2006, 01:20:50 PM by riffraff »
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Offline capt.koolaid

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2006, 11:14:35 PM »
Riffraff, Thank you for sharing your information obtained from Mr. R. I may have to give the pup another try one handed and let it cool between magazines. Like Guiness Im not looking for 50 rounds trouble free, But I do have to make it thru 36 to qualify with it. I agree it should be shot very little (conserve the recoil spring) but the lighter bullets, now thats a differant story for me. My PUP seems to digest 147 grain better than the others and has a definate taste for Winchesters SXT LEO load.

I will try your suggestions. I too am in love with this little guns feel, ergonomics, etc. but thiers nothing more frustrating than to have a few reliability issues, only to log on here and see the typical koolaid chant that your limpwristing it, its you, its not the gun, thiers nothing wrong with the gun, etc. Ive heard that with many substandard guns but this time...well, you get the idea. I compare it to calling a mechanic and saying your car wont start only to have him ask, "is it got gas in it"?

Anyway, Im gonna tough it out and most of the folks on the board here have been very supportive, Hopefully Guinness and I can one day boast of the reliability many others on this board share.

Offline theirishguard

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2006, 10:09:39 AM »
the cracks did not happen to the frame but the slide in just a few guns. Tom
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Offline riffraff

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2006, 09:15:57 PM »
Thanks for the correction Tom,

In the slide not the frame.  I would never have guessed that was possible.

Mike
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Online tracker

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2006, 09:24:55 PM »
Kool,
Why do you have to qualify with it?

Offline TXAGGIECHL

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Re: Guinnessdog reunited with pup, range report
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2006, 05:47:05 AM »
I'm not speaking for Capt.Koolaid, but if he's on the force, a number of departments now require you to qualifty with ANY firearm you carry, including backups and off-duty carry.  The course of fire is sometimes abridged for backups, e.g., lower round counts, closer distances, drawing weapon from location carried (e.g., ankle holster, vest holster, pocket, ect.)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 05:48:05 AM by TXAGGIECHL »