The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: shelb on August 03, 2004, 01:10:18 PM
-
Question 1:
Yesterday at the range, the trigger spring on my r9s came off the posts of the frame under the grip. The grip screw upper grip screw on that side was little loose, but the grip was still flush to the frame. It operates smoothly now that I have reassembled it. I will test it at the range tomorrow. Anyone else experienced this before?
Question 2:
How stiff is your extractor spring? Mine seems fairly stiff, but can be pushed in with my finger. The reason that I ask is that I have had several fte's the last two times at the range. I initially thought that it might be my own error, but I still encountered a few after making a concious effort to avoid limp wristing. I was using batch practice speer gold dots both times.
-
Hi Shelb,
I haven't gotten my R9S yet, but if I were having the problems that you are having, I would call the factory and see about getting them straightened out. All of my contacts with the Rohrbaughs have been positive.
Frank
-
I agree. Give Rohrbaugh a call.
-
Thanks a bunch guys.
I intend on contacting Rohrbaugh, but I wanted to draw upon the experiences of the fine folks here and ensure that I fully understand the nature of the problems before I make the call. I know the Rohrbaugh's are extremely busy, and I certainly did not want to waste their time if it was something that I am causing.
I went to the range earlier today to see if I could repeat the failures. After ~60 rounds, the trigger spring dislocated from the frame in the same fashion as before. I did take special care to firmly tighten the grip screws before my range session. However, the upper screw on the side of the trigger assembly had worked its way loose once again. As the grip provides a mating surface for the trigger spring to track within, I am certain that the any displacement of the grip due to a loose screw may be causing this phenomenon. Anyone use locktight on their screws?
Fte/ftf. I was hoping someone might chime on their extractor stiffness. From this session, I still fear that the feed problems I encounter might be of my own causing. Fortunately, I did not encounter any fte's during this session. Out of the ~60 rounds 5 failed to feed correctly. 3 were easily loaded by pulling back the slide the rest of the way, and 2 never cleared the clip.
I will update you as I discover more.
-
I just spoke with Eric over the phone and thought I would update everyone per our discussions.
First, what great customer service! I do not know any company where you get that kind of personal attention.
Trigger spring: Eric suggests using 222ms loctite. I think that may have been mentioned somewhere else on this forum as well. It is important to note, that the grip screws can loosen in as few as 50 rounds (as it did in this case causing my trigger spring to dislocate).....so bring your allen wrech to the range or use loctite!
FTF/FTE: Eric assures me, as is evidenced by many here, that limp wristing will not be problem for a firm and supported grip. I will try a couple more sessions at the range to see if the problem lies with me and my grip. I also intend on buying a fresh batch of the 115gr gold dots to ensure that it is not the 115gr gold dot practice ammo from ammoman. Hopefully, more to come........
-
My first range session with my #128 R9s produced about a 30+% FTE. :( Second range session with different ammo was not statistically better. >:( I sent it back to the factory, and the problem was that the extractor spring was too weak. The boys replaced it and I've had no more FTE's in over 200 rounds. ;D FYI, originally, I could depress the back end of the extractor very easily with a finger. When I got the gun back with the new spring, it was so stiff I had to use my thumb nail to depress it. BIG difference!
-
Thx for info Shelby - this sorta feedback is vital. I certainly think the extractor does need quite a strong spring, tho not sure what rating the fitted one is meant to have.
I have had rapid loosening of upper grip screw on right tho - not enough to prejudice the trigger operation. It does tho I quickly realized need regular checking - plus if possible addition of the Loctite.
-
After about 400 rounds through my R9s, my grip screws are still so tight that I cannot loosen them (I stopped trying just short of what I thought would strip the hex hole). Don't know if this is a good thing or not. I don't like gun parts to shoot loose, but I do like to be able to disassemble a piece for cleaning/inspection. But hey--if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
-
Probably just the loctite.
I understand your fears, however.....I hold my breath everytime I snug the little things in place. Wouldn't take much to mangle the hex hole.
Perhaps sometime in the future you could get a replacement set in case you do strip them in disassembly. Be prepared though....once they have been loosened you must either reapply loc tite or tighten every 40-50 rounds. :)
-
I can push my extractor with my fingers too. I just went to the range today and had a ton of failures especially with WWB JHP. It did get better in the last 35 or so rounds of CCI Blazer. Should I call Rohrbaugh?
-
I can push my extractor with my fingers too. I just went to the range today and had a ton of failures especially with WWB JHP. It did get better in the last 35 or so rounds of CCI Blazer. Should I call Rohrbaugh?
I have not fired the WWB JHP personally, but I believe others here have used them with success. Someone else may be able to chime in here.
It is easy to limp wrist with the R9S, so take special care to avoid it. Not accusing you of doing it, but something to be aware of. If you are experince a high frequency of failures, then I would call Eric. The Rohrbaughs are very friendly and take good care of their customers.
-
Incursion - welcome! :)
Shelby is right re limp-wristing ... but otherwise just perhaps you have a weaker extractor spring .. I believe (tho forget who) we had someone else with a similar problem and it was fixed. Wish I could remember accurately.
I have fired quite a bit of WWB ball ammo - and that was good - but so far not tried the JHP. Maybe I must try and get some and add that to my list for next test session. I already have some Win ''Ranger'' 147 ammo dobrien sent me, waiting on some tests.
I have not thought to ask Eric but - I wonder if there is any simple test to be able to assess whether the extractor spring tension is adequate. Something else i must try and establish ... some sorta ''rule of thumb'' to go by.
-
I'll shoot it again and report back.
-
I shot another 75 rounds and had 3 failures. 50 Blazer FMJ and 25 147 gr. Ranger T. I'm going to shoot it some more because I still don't fully trust it.
-
Not good!!
Can you ellucidate on those failures at all? Be good to know ... type, ammo at time etc.
-
I think all 3 were failures to eject, but one could have been a failure to extract as well. It was hard to tell from the orientation of the casing.
-
That helps thx but - can you also specify the ammo in use at the time. This is also more than useful to know.
I shall be including Blazers in my next test run and would not be surprised to suffer the odd FTE.
-
It was in my previous post. Blazer 115 gr. FMJ and Winchester Ranger 147 gr. RA9T.
-
I did read that yeah .. but missed any ref' to which was being shot when a failure occurred!!! That was what I was trying to find out. :)
-
I shot another 100 rounds today and had a bunch of malfunctions. I had multiple people shoot it as well. Just how grip sensitive is this gun? I think I'm going to send it back. Something seems slightly off.
-
Boy, that sure is not consistent with my experience. I have 200 rounds through mine with not a single hitch. I have let 5 other people shoot it--including a complete newbie--and have intentionally held it as weakly as possible in an attempt to induce a limp-wrist malfunction -- no dice.
I would give the factory a call -- but be armed with all the pertinent info -- ammo types, types of failures, etc.
-
I shipped it out today. I wish they would pick up shipping. It came out to be $45. Damn UPS!
-
Incursion:
I shot the gun for the first time last week. My first mag full was gold dot 115s without a hitch. Then I switched to Walmart Winchester white box ammo. The first two mags went through with no problem. After that I had failures to eject on nearly every other round of the 60 rounds of WWB I used.
I talked to Eric about this and he said others have had problems with WWB ammo. He said brass cased Blazer is also bad. He recommended I try the aluminum cased Blazer 115.
I know the consensus on defensive ammo is gold dot 115 or 124. What is everyone's experience with target ammunition? In doing a search on this forum for "winchester white box" it appears most people have not had problems with it. I'll give the aluminum cased blazer a try but I'm no very optimistic. UPS might be getting more business.
-
I was using aluminum Blazer.
-
Interesting...Kel-Tec told me to NOT use alum Blazer w/ my P3AT
-
While I bemoan the fact that I have several more months to wait for my R9S to come in, I am glad that there is more time for some of these issues to be worked out before mine is built.
-
I went to the range today and struggled through 50 rounds of aluminum cased Blazer 115. It behaved in the exact same way that the Winchester white box had with constant failures to eject and occasional failures to feed. The gun will be making a visit to Farmindale, NY.
-
Just a simple question. If it is proven that the gun doesn't like Blazers, and Rohrbaugh says don't use them, why try?
-
Eric specifically recommended aluminum cased Blazer 115s.
-
Sorry ,I missed that.
Are Blazers the round you intend to carry with? Or is this a practice round?
-
Speer Gold Dot 115s are my carry round. I'm looking for a reliable practice round at least one that I don't have to constantly clear jams with. I don't think anyone that carries legally uses Blazer as a carry round lol. You'd have to go to the Temple ER in Philly to see gunshot wounds with ball ammo.
-
Justin .. the CCI Blazer (aluminum case) stuff I hope to testing tomorrow along with other stuff, is actually 115 JHP ... I used to think all the Blazer was hardball but - not so. :)
-
The Blazer 9mm 115 I got is FMJ $5.97 for 50
Here I thought the picture you have labeled Blazer 115 was actually Gold Dot 115, good to know. Maybe the Rohrbaugh does'nt work with ball ammo like the Seecamp.
-
My 115 JHP Blazers were (ouch!!) .. $13.95 ... another ouch!
The pic I put on the ammo test thread was this one and yeah ... round on right is .. Blazer 115 JHP .. sorry about poor white balance.
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/r9s-tests-03/ammo-01-s.jpg)
That Blazer 115 JHP does tho have almost exactly same OAL as the GD's.
I would reckon overall tho - that the R9 like most 9mm small pistols would (usually) digest ball ammo always a tad better than HP's ... possibly not the case... but feeding should in theory always be that bit better.
I may add some ball stuff thru R9 tomorrow if i get testing . I have hundreds of rounds of straight Win ball ... tho without pulling am not sure of bullet weight.
-
I would definetly like to see a definitive reliability test with ball ammo.
-
Funnily enough ... tho not a huge qty used ... my first or second test run used some WWB ball ..... and it fed and shot well. Certainly no failures.
We'll see tho - I'll pull a bullet from this bulk stuff I have .. ball ammo .... Win headstamp .. and try and put quite a few thru - just to see. I think I have plenty of WWB ball left too - so one or the other - or both. We'll see how time goes.
(The wet packs are soaking nicely! :D )
-
Eric received my R9 today and said that it was just dirty. I hope he's right, but the gun did malfunction a lot during my 1st sessions (140 rounds). I'll feel really dumb if that's all it was. I've only shot 315 rounds through the gun to date.
-
I'm not absolutely sure what Eric would regard as ''OK dirt'' as against ''prejudicial dirt'' .. I know when he went to demo the gun to FBI it began to malfunction purely cos of crud etc ... tho that was IIRC quite a goodly number of rounds. The guys were pumping rounds thru at a prodigious rate apparently!
I feel myself that if I have had a session of up to 100 rounds then ... a major and efficient clean is paramount .. more than I'd do say on a 1911 ... larger semi.
This gun is in a way ''pushing the envelope'' I think .. and so I am happy to accept that cleanliness is important. Might not be everything but - still major importance.
I expect it'll be test fired .. cleaned and tested again ....
-
He left a message saying that it's already on its way back to me. I hope it's fixed. It will be my most expensive cleaning yet.
-
One thing I noticed after my first range session was all of the crud in my R9S. It was heavily imbedded in the grease the gun was lubed with from the factory. I could easily attribute any problems I had with the Wal-Mart Winchester White box 9mm FMJ to having a dirty gun. The Speer 115 GD HP, which I used at the end of my range session, worked perfectly. When I cleaned the R9S, I relubed with Militec 1. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot it again because of my work schedule and the weather, but I will let everyone know how my next range session works out.
Frank
-
I received my R9s, No. 196, yesterday, and had a brief trial today. With WWB 115 gr JHP, 42 rounds, had no problems. With Speer GD HP 124 gr, had two FTF out of 14 rounds. It may have been the same round failing twice since I ejected the failure and put it in the next magazine.
Accuracy was scattered, but that was more me than the gun. The DAO long pull is very different for me. But, I was able to settle in more toward the end.
It's a great feeling little gun.
-
Glad you have yours Bob . (did I ever say Hi? I quite forget!) ....... I ran test #3 yesterday - 5 different ammo types ... yet to write it all up. I went thru probably 100 rounds in total .. almost - flawlessly.
-
Thanks, R9sCarry, it's good to be here.
When you post the latest test results, where will it be - - what thread?
Will you include a summary blending new results in with previous info - - general conclusions.
At this time, I'm assuming that Speer GD is a primary choice for carry use. But, 115 or 124? Or, either? Personal preference?
My main interest will be in finding a reliable practice round that feels similar to the carry round, and is reasonably priced.
-
Bob, yeah --- finding the ideal practice round is somewhat of a quest. carry tho - GD's so far best and not sure really whether any great pref' so far for 115 or 124 . I have 124's and so use those right now.
The report when done will be a link to a server of mine ... much as test #2 - I write it all up in html . so a thread is impractical..... and some conclusions from this new test will echo back to some things earlier - I have some ideas as to why some results were as they were.
Been on a most enjoyable biker rally with wife today . so no time for write up - and tomorrow - off to a model plane fun fly ... sheesh .. so much to do!! :D I will tho hope to knuckle down after all this indulgence and get things done .. along with some work!! Soon as I can.
-
Shot another 100 rounds through it. 3 failures with Blazer FMJ; too many to count with Winchester Ranger T 147 gr. I was getting stovepipes and failure to feeds. When I was shooting one handed the gun would cycle but it wouldn't pick up the next round. This gun is pissing me off!
-
Incursion, at least it's nice and clean.
-
Why not try the Gold Dots that everyone else is having very good results with?
How much did you shoot it with one hand? Are you sure you are not limp wristing? Have you let others shoot it?
Eric would have no reason to send it back to you if it wasn't working 100% for them at the factory. I am trying to figure out why it is not working for you.
-
Incursion:
When you get ready to sell your Rohrbaugh, let me know. I would like to have an extra on hand to use for spare parts in the unlikely event that my absolutely flawless and immaculately clean "early-edition" R9s ever develops a vice or two.
RS
-
I've let other people shoot it, and it still malfunctions. However, it does malfunction less in other people's hands. This gun should not be this sensitive to grip. I can shoot pretty well (less than 1" groups at 7 yards), so I have some semblance of what I'm doing. I plan to buy 1000 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 115 gr., but I don't think it's the ammo. the OAL of the Ranger T 147 gr. is less than a Gold Dot.
-
See, I don't find the gun to be particularly grip sensitive at all. I tried to induce limpwrist malfunctions without success. Mine hasn't choked yet -- on about 250 rounds of Win White Box FMJ and Gold Dots. I have also let 4 other people shoot it with no problems.
-
All right, I orderded up some Gold Dots and plan to clean the gun every 50 rounds at the range as suggested by Eric. I will report back after Saturday.
Does anyone else in Houston have a Rohrbaugh? Ok I just checked the recoil spring, and it was a full coil shorter than a new spring after 415 rounds.
-
Just my thoughts on these failures.
Remember when all that was talked about was how finely fitted these Rohrbaugh's are? Well, there is a price to pay for that tight fitted pistol, you must keep it clean & properly lubed . I would think you would pick a premium band of ammo to shoot and stick with it.
It would make me feel pretty foolish to pay return shipping cost of $35 or so, just for a basic clean & lube.
The Colt 1911, the old Warhorse, was very loosely fitted in order to continue to work even dirty, and was not very accurate.
The Rohrbaugh R9 may not be for everyone.
Flame away....
-
I did feel pretty foolish, but other people don't seem to be having the problems that I'm experiencing even though they're using the same brands of ammo. I'll report back after I shoot the Gold Dots. I plan to clean it after every 25 rounds or so.
-
I would think the pistol should go 50 rounds before cleaning and re-lubing.
Don't be discouraged, tighten that grip, and keep on shootin'..
-
Hi Incursion,
I hope that your range session goes well for you. If you use the Gold Dot 115 grain HPs, your gun is clean and properly lubricated, and you are still having problems, I would definitely give the factory a call again and let them know that there is something that they missed. People make mistakes and they may have made one with your gun.
Not to start a debate, but I don't buy into the limp wristing thing. I have never had a problem with an automatic, including the R9S, that I could attribute to limp wristing. It is just my humble opinion, but if a gun is that sensitive, I sure wouldn't want to carry it for self protection. Magazine, ammunition, dirt or lubrication sensitive I can understand.
Good Luck,
Frank
-
I agree about the tight tolerances. This gun is a Ferrari -- its gotta be clean and well-lubed. Its not a Glock or a 1911 that are more able to work out of tolerance. Cleaning every 50 should be fine. I put 100+ rounds through mine before the first cleaning, with no problems.
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the factory was wrong just yet -- let him try it with ammo of known function like the Gold Dots. This is gun is not overly finicky, or a "one round wonder" like some, but it does have some ammo sensitivity.
I don't personally believe that limp wristing is a problem with this gun -- at least not for me. I have tried to induce limp wrist type failures and been unable to do so.
-
When I locked my shooting arm, the gun seemed to work slightly better.
Have you guys ever shot a SIG 210-6? Those things are tight as heck, yet they just keep on runnin'.
-
I am thinking more and more ... the R9 is very much a hibrid .... not a cart horse ... it's a racing highly strung stallion!! :)
I am struggling to make time to get my test stuff written up - got images all but ready to use .. now a load of writing to be done.
I have come up I think with some interesting theories .... and will expound those in the write-up ... somewhat a case of ''only feed this hibrid the right food'' .. sorta thing! ;D More soon.
-
OK, I shot another 73 rounds. This gun definitely needs to be cleaned every 50 rounds in my opinion. I shot 115 gr. Gold Dots. The first mag was horrible--about 3 jams. After that, it was flawless until the end where I had another 3 jams, but you could easily tell it was dirty because it wouldn't always go back into battery after hand cycling. You could also feel the slide catching. I plan to go back tomorrow and shoot it some more, but this time I won't forget my damn punch.
I'm still wondering why the first mag jammed up so much. I'm guessing the spring wasn't lined up correctly or something. From now on, I plan to shoot a mag through it after cleaning it to ensure functioning before I carry.
I hope this is the end of my troubles! I'll report back later.
-
Well, now I know why I couldn't break the gun down at the range. The takedown pin cracked!
-
You mean the slide retaining pin? That sounds like the prob Shelb had. Hmmm ... maybe an upgrade to the new pin would be wise for all. Have to run this by Eric when I can.
-
The barrel pin--the thing you punch out to field strip the gun.
-
Right after got my gun, I talked to Eric, and he mentioned that the pin has been upgraded (stronger). I didn't hear when that was done; just that my No. 196 had the new pin.
-
The pin upgrade to 17-4 PH steel occured last month. The serial numbers are not consecutive -- so the number in itself doesn't really mean anything.
-
Where's the post with the pic of the broken pin? I can't find it.
-
Here ya go -
Broken pin thread (http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1091830427)
-
Yeah, I think mine broke in about the same place. I can't get the other half out of the gun.
-
Pretty central then .. which figures as this is max stress area from barrel lug. I have told Eric about this and am waiting to hear from him on several other matters.
I had hoped to have posted my ammo test #3 by now but am running it by Eric before releasing it ... in case he has any queries that need addressed.
-
Incursion,
Sounds like you went through a lot of the same stuggles that I did. I was having some failures when I originally posted this thread. I was putting quite a few rounds through the thing trying to determine if the failures were of my own causing....then I encountered the pin failure.
Mine seemed a fluke, but perhaps as a precuation, people may want to consider a pin upgrade.
-
I talked to Eric today, and it looks like I'm getting a new R9. Apparently, there was something that was ever so slightly out of specification.
-
I know one thing Incursion . Eric will always it seems try and do anything to ensure you are seen right. It is a pity to see anyone here with an R9 problem ... when for the most part we are all happy campers. I shall be hoping you have good results from your replacement.. as will you - of course! :)
There are still now and again, real minor things that slip thru - I'd almost expect that with a new production gun, even with all the R&D that they have done. I regard myself as somewhat of a ''field agent'' cum ''testbed'' .... obviously I want no probs but - feel able to accept them when things are put right ... this is why I am so supportive of the Bros Rohrbaugh.
Having been in engineering I perhaps understand better the nuances of development and fine tuning . I did much prototyping in years gone by - and sometimes it seems that development never really reaches finality! Always something else to make the item that bit better.
I am hopeful of getting my #2 R9 in the next coupla weeks or so .. which means I can all but ''retire'' my trusty #1.
-
Chris:
You put it very well indeed. Mr. Browning's 1911 classic masterpiece of design has been fine-tuned for the past 93 years. I venture to predict that the Rohrbaugh masterpiece of design will also become a classic.
RS
-
I am actually surprised that the Rohrbaugh hasn't had more growing pains. I need to get a new pin, just to avoid any future problems. But, so far, all I would like to see is the following: a fieldstrip tool, and a jig or something to allow the inner recoil spring to be changed on a regular basis.
-
I received my new Rohrbaugh today along with 2 recoil springs for the trouble. I'll report back when I shoot it.
-
Hopefully I'll have my new one sometime this week. You're lucky you got yours before me. What serial number did you get? Eric told me I'll be getting R450.
-
I got 459. The trigger seems to be better than my last one.
-
Hoping to call in to see my FFL today and pick up my #2 R9 ... Eric called yesterday with the good news that it was en route ...... I think this is R300. This order goes back to May sorta time I think.
-
I have # R-600, and have had it for a number of weeks.
This is just to point out to all.
The Serial Numbers don't mean a thing, but I wish it did. There is no sequence you can follow, but I think the Rohrbaugh records books will show a sequence in the shipping date.
-
Ok, I just got back from the range. I couldn't get through the first 6 or 7 mags without a single malfunction, so I decided to break the gun down and wipe off the factory lube. Then I shot another 300 or so rounds with 11 malfunctions. It malfunctioned with Gold Dot 115 gr. and 115 gr. Blazer 9mm. A 3.67% failiure rate is still too high for me. I'll report back when I shoot it again.
-
You shot in the neighborhood of 350 rounds through an R-9 in a single outing? You are a better man than I.
How many of the failures were with Gold Dots -- and how late in the day?
Also -- how many rounds on the springs in the gun?
-
I didn't have that many with the Blazer. About 8-9 were with the Gold Dots. I cleaned the gun twice at the range. My hand is killing me.
-
Under 500 on the spring assuming it's the same spring that I sent with the original gun.
The exact number of rounds that I shot was 319.
-
Ok, I just got back from the range. I couldn't get through the first 6 or 7 mags without a single malfunction, so I decided to break the gun down and wipe off the factory lube. Then I shot another 300 or so rounds with 11 malfunctions. It malfunctioned with Gold Dot 115 gr. and 115 gr. Blazer 9mm. A 3.67% failiure rate is still too high for me. I'll report back when I shoot it again.
What's the prevailing wisdom on the cause of Incursion's malfunctions? Does the gun just need a very large break-in period? (Their website doesn't seem to have the manual on-line, so I can't answer that myself.) Or are Gold Dot and
Blazers not appropriate for the gun despite Eric's recommendation? Or could Incursion have received a second gun that had problems? The pup need cleaning every 20 rounds or so?
Incursion, do they happen randomly or at the tail end, for example, of a magazine?
-
I don't think there is enough info here to assess...
No extraordinary breakin is required. My gun was 100% from Round 1 to where I am now... about 200.
The gun was test fired at the factory before being delivered to him the first time and upon return the second time -- so its hard to figure unless it is something about the ammo or his shooting style.
-
Just had the chance yesterday to put some ammo thru my #2 R9 ... only had some Igman FMJ on hand but .. fired off a few mags just to check it out .. 100% OK - good as gold. I will check some GD's as well just to be sure but am already happy to initiate its carry duty.
Incursion's case? Both disappointed for him but mystified also .. thus far.
-
"You shot in the neighborhood of 350 rounds through an R-9 in a single outing? You are a better man than I."
Oh Man! Yikes. Makes my trigger finger hurt just to think about it. :P Now that I consider my Rohrbaugh to be completely reliable, as it has been from the start, I usually start off with a mag or two of Rohrbaugh shooting just for
kicks, and then go to something that is heavier in weight and less demanding on the shooter. If the failures had happened in the later stages of shooting this many rounds, I would have suspected fatigue as a factor, but since it didn't I'm stumped.
-
It woudl be irresponsible of me not to add that, based upon my discussions with Eric and Karl at the factory, running these guns dry is a real source of problems. I definitely do not recommend running them without lube!
-
It woudl be irresponsible of me not to add that, based upon my discussions with Eric and Karl at the factory, running these guns dry is a real source of problems. I definitely do not recommend running them without lube!
How does this affect reliability after being carried inside (e.g. pocket holster or even w/o holster) for several days? Are the tolerances tight enough that ambient fluff and dust don't get in?
-
TCat - my experience only - ingress of lint etc is quite a minimal problem ... but have noticed the most obvious place for ''collection'' is the very small gap around hammer.
I lube very sparingly but - I shall now, having #2 for much more frequent carry, probably carry out a weekly maintainance clean even if not shot. This is probably more than required but seems to me a sensible idea.
-
I don't see how they use the lube from the factory. I couldn't get through a single mag with that stuff. It seemed way too thick. The failures were pretty spread out, so I don't think it had to do with fatigue. I don't think it had to do with cleanliness either because one of them happened right after I broke it down and wiped it clean.
One of the reasons that I didn't break it down more frequently is that I didn't have the proper tool to do it. It took me ~10-15 min just to take the gun apart each time. I was hammering a wooden q-tip with the back of my cleaning rod to push the pin out--obviously not the most efficient way of breaking the gun down.
I got different types of failures throughout the day. Sometimes it wouldn't pick up the next round in the mag; sometimes I got a double feed; and sometimes I got a stovepipe.
I plan to shoot it again this weekend and will report back after the session.
-
Ok, I took it to the range today and shot 43 rounds through it with 2 failures to feed on the next to last round of the same mag.
I would have shot a lot more, but when I broke it down after the first 43 rounds, I noticed that the barrel is shearing at the lockup point and the slide's metal is very rough as well where it locks up with the barrel. I'll take pics and post later.
-
The YABBC tags don't seem to work with my site.
https://webspace.utexas.edu/elim/www/Rohrbaugh%20Problems%20001.jpg
https://webspace.utexas.edu/elim/www/Rohrbaugh%20Problems%20002.jpg
https://webspace.utexas.edu/elim/www/Rohrbaugh%20Problems%20005.jpg
https://webspace.utexas.edu/elim/www/Rohrbaugh%20Problems%20006.jpg
https://webspace.utexas.edu/elim/www/Rohrbaugh%20Problems%20007.jpg
-
Incursion,
First question .. type of ammo? Or types used if more than one? Standard pressure? Also - can you take a measurement across mag feed lips at narrowest point - and post the dimension?
I have saved your pics and cropped and compressed to get em to easier size (they are too huge!) ... and here are the three that I consider most useful. Hope it helps .. then we can all take a peek more easily.
(http://www.plethorapix.com/rohrbaugh/incurprobs/incursion-02.jpg)
(http://www.plethorapix.com/rohrbaugh/incurprobs/incursion-06.jpg)
(http://www.plethorapix.com/rohrbaugh/incurprobs/incursion-07.jpg)
-
115 gr. Speer Gold Dot. I don't have a caliper, but will try to get a measurement. I'm not sure if the roughness in the metal on the slide/barrel was from the last range trip or not, but the slight chip on the barrel definitely wasn't there last time. It's hard to see the chip from the picture, but the metal shaving is still hanging onto the barrel.
How much wear do you guys have in those areas? I don't remember my first gun having wear to that degree. It seems like it could possibly be normal because it's not super rough.
-
Maybe that is from running it without enough lube?
-
>>Hi Incursion... It looks like progress is being made to understand the issues with you and the R9...!...that is the good news!!! However...if in fact you have been shooting the gun as shown in these pics - I echo Gator in suggesting this R9 is waaay under lubbed...seemingly at every critical point. If this is true it is no wonder you are beginning to see metal shavings.
Have you been able to meet up with fellow forum guy, Jax...? If so, what became of it? If not, I would further suggest you hold off shooting the R9 until such a time when you can meet Jax to review gun condition and shooting style. Perhaps after that you will be able to report back with a smile on your face...TW<<
-
I didn't degrease it and run it bone dry. FP-10 is a high quality lube. The metal shouldn't be worn that much.
-
That wear is consistent with what I observed before my pin sheared, and I was lubbing it generously after ever 50-80 rounds. Could be perhaps, that something else is out of spec, causing your initial pin failure?
I would suggest calling Rohrbaugh before using it any further.
-
This is a completely different gun.
-
>>Incursion, I've said this before...as have others, but I will say it one last time here... It is important to use the lubes suggested and as used by the factory for the R9. Eric provided very clear and specific instructions about this - which between Gator and I have been posted twice now in recent history. If you deviate from the factory instructions, you can expect to have problems with your gun.
FP10 may be a wonderful lubricant, but it is not the lube which the R9 was built around. There may or may not be all kinds of other problems with the gun shown in the pics, however...clearly one of those problems is an R9 which is improperly lubed, as indicated by the wear on the gun. If you keep shooting the R9 as shown, you will likely destroy the gun - and probably sooner than later. That will be a sad day...TW<<
-
Eric said to meet up with Jax and try it with the new mags.
I want to smooth out the wear somehow.
TW, I couldn't get through a single mag without a malfunction lubing it with their instructions. I shot it straight from the factory which was lubed exactly like the pics, and the gun jammed on almost every round for 6-7 mags straight.
-
While I can understand the difference between the use of a grease or an oil, and I can understand having to make sure enough of it is in the right places, I'm going to toss out the statement that I think it is ridiculous if this pistol requires the use of one particular lubricant, especially when it's not a lubricant that's readily available.
I use two lubricants for my handguns - FP-10 oil and TW-25B grease. From what I've read, the R9 likes grease, and a lot of it. Is everyone on this board that owns an R9 using Superlube? Anyone use TW-25B or other quality greases?
-
The thing that puzzles me is, the worst of the problems are here with this Gun, [or is it guns now?] , and one user.
Is this just bad luck ? ???
-
I think its a rediculous assertation that if you not using superlube your gun will not operate as designed. Browse back through this forum and you'll find many people using other kinds of quality (keep in mind quality) lube successfully before this became a hot topic. Compare the viscosity and chemical/mechanical properties of several of high tech lubes discussed here...they're not that different.
Perhaps I am an optimist, but I think Incursion seems to be catching a lot of flack from people suggesting that he is incompetant rather than unlucky. IMO, his patience and tireless testing is doing everyone a great service in fixing and tuning potential problems R9 owners may encounter. I shudder to think of someone purchasing an R9, firing a couple magazines through it then placing it away in their pocket, potentially their life depending on it when a FTE/FTF may lie waiting undiscovered. Granted this unlucky soul may have a 1 out of 100 or even 1 out of 1000 defect, but this is still a high rate of incidence in manufacturing. There are several others here who have encountered FTF's with their R9, and they have patiently worked with the Rohrbaugh's to resolve them because they believe in the product and the company, so let's give Incursion the benefit of the doubt.
-
Isn't FP-10 an oil and not a grease?
I, for one, am not suggesting that you MUST use Superlube, although I plan to do so now... However, I am suggesting that there is a difference between a grease and an oil.
If you don't want to use Superlube, I would at least suggest another high quality grease -- like RIG or something similar. The problem with the oil is that it doesn't tend to stay put, particularly when firing lots and lots of rounds.
I also don't think Incursion is being treated too badly. ::) Some may think its a problem related to him -- I agree with you on that. The fact is that -- unless you think Eric is lying -- the gun worked great at the factory, but doesn't work for him. I don't know what that means -- something is different. Could be the mags, could be the ammo, could be his shooting style, could be the Earth's magnetic field in his area of the world (no...not really).
I thought that meeting with another member and swapping guns would isolate the problem -- now that there could be damage to his gun, its harder to say -- but should still be very enlightening.
One thing I wasn't clear on -- I didn't realize that this is a new gun from the factory. This makes the second gun Incursion had with the same problems? If so -- it seems even more likely that some external factor is involved.
-
I don't mean to come off the wrong way, I certainly don't mean to imply that Eric or Incursion is lying. My point simply stated, is that it is unfair to speculate that either Incursion OR Eric or mother nature (for that matter :) ) hold responsibilty until the problem is discovered and remedied. Even then it is counter productive. I can not speak for Incursion's pistol, but mine was rebuilt as far as I was told. In fact, I still have, on average 3 FTF's per 50-60 rounds. This is the case with multiple shooters. I am quite certain that Eric fired the heck out of mine testing it at the factory.....but it is a recurring problem for me....and it may just be me. Unfortunately, I have had very little time to test my pistol since I have gotten it back (~120 rounds).....which is why I have been following Incursions ordeal with great interest.
-
I didnt mean to infer that you or anyone was suggesting that anyone was lying -- its just my analysis.
As far as I can tell, when you post your experiences on an Internet forum you are inviting speculation. :-/
I think the jury is still out and I hope that eventually we will find out the problem.
-
I agree with Rohrbaugh and Gator on the use of a high quailty grease. I think any semi-auto should be lubed with a high quality grease.
The quantity, I may question. I choose to lube often and make it well placed on ALL the contact points.
Also, I am not blaming Icursion, altho he does seem
to be a factor.
-
It seems like every time I get a chance to test the gun out, some new development occurs or I'm lacking some sort of information that's supposed to lend itself to making the gun work 100%. When I got this new gun, I didn't know that it had to be lubed so much. In fact, I thought the exact opposite. I figured that a pocket gun would be designed to run nearly dry because the designers wouldn't want lint to accumulate and lock up the action.
Plus, I didn't wipe off the superlube immediately. I shot 6-7 mags with failures in every mag, and I'm not just talking about one or two. It jammed on almost every round with the superlube.
I'm concerned about the wear, but Eric doesn't seem to be and that should allay my worries. It just irks me that the gun could have that much wear in such a short time.
I'm probably going to end up getting it sanded out or something once we get the problems solved.
-
Incursion wrote: I noticed that the barrel is shearing at the lockup point and the slide's metal is very rough as well where it locks up with the barrel.
I just field stripped my new R9s for the first time after a range session. Its barrel and slide look exactly the same at the lock up as yours does. I shot it as it came from the factory. I didn't even field strip it before shooting it. I shot 110 rounds of WWB with one failure to feed during rapid fire after the 50 round mark. I also shot 50 rounds of Gold Dot 115 grain after the 110 rounds of WWB with 2 failures to feed during rapid fire. The gun was not cleaned or field stripped at the range. All in all the experience was very positive and I now carry my R9s instead of my kel-spec P32.
-
Yeah, I take back the statement about it being very rough. It's only a little bit rough. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
-
The thing that puzzles me is, the worst of the problems are here with this Gun, [or is it guns now?] , and one user.
Is this just bad luck ? ???
It may be bad luck, but there are reports elsewhere of the R9 not being reliable as I pointed out a few weeks ago. Not just Incursion and not just Gun Tests. Part of the issue may be that, as DDGator pointed out, this is an enthusiast forum and some members may be a bit harsh on alternate perspectives and experiences, which may reduce additional postings on those issues. That's always a tough balancing act for enthusiast fora.
-
No doubt this board may not always be a representative sample, however, I can tell you that to my knowledge, all of the owners of "problem" guns (two or three?) that have sought assistance from the factory have been discussed on this forum. If there are a lot of other people unhappy with their R-9s, they are not picking up the phone and calling Rohrbaugh.
I would respectfully suggest that the number of R-9s experiecing problems is very low. As with anything on the Internet, the focus is usually on the negative (which is more interesting), so it appears to be inflated.
How many people who own and R-9 and post here have not bothered to post a range report that everything is working properly? Dull, boring. There is no flood of guns back to Rohrbaugh, and no inherent problems with this gun.
Are there isolated problems? Yes. It remains to be seen what the true source will be -- if we ever know -- but lots of people here probably have their own opinions.
-
It may be bad luck, but there are reports elsewhere of the R9 not being reliable as I pointed out a few weeks ago. Not just Incursion and not just Gun Tests. Part of the issue may be that, as DDGator pointed out, this is an enthusiast forum and some members may be a bit harsh on alternate perspectives and experiences, which may reduce additional postings on those issues. That's always a tough balancing act for enthusiast fora.
>>TCat... You bring up a good point about this being an enthusiast forum, but I for one would like to think I am open to hearing what you call "alternate perspectives" if it means learning more about the R9 and/or how to manage this gun to it's full potential. If this means criticisms about the gun - fine...as long as they are constructive criticisms as opposed to hearsay put downs. When reviewing such criticisms I believe it is important to first establish if the user understands the purpose of the gun, how and why it is built to such close tolerences, and how to apply the special care required to maintain the gun to peak preformance. Once these parameters are established - only then, IMO, can you begin to examine and understand the problem...whether it be with the gun or the shooter.
You mention "reports elsewhere" describing the R9 as an unreliable gun. Can you provide references to these reports, and based on the criteria mentioned above...can you offer an unbiased opinion about the problems...?...TW<<
-
Ok, so I met up with Jax today at my friend's range. I had a failure to extract on the first magazine. The extractor looked like it was taking off a small chunk of the casing. I kept getting failure to extracts. Then Jax shot it and the magazine came out when he fired it. Then the magazine started coming out on me almost every round. Finally, the guide rod broke where it connects to that disc-like piece. We shot mine around 100 rounds. I broke it down and cleaned it after about 64 rounds. I switched the recoil spring after the 2nd or 3rd magazine.
I shot 10 magazines through his gun with only one failure to eject and I'm pretty sure it was due to a flinch. His gun only malfunctioned twice the whole day, and I'm pretty sure we shot more than 100 rounds through it.
Ok, here's the exact breakdown:
Round 03 Failure to Extract
Round 07 Failure to Extract
Round 15 Failure to Extract
Round 30 Failure to Eject
Round 51 Failure to Extract
Round 82 Faliure to Extract
I didn't log the rounds where the magazine came out because I thought it was user error at first.
-
The guide rod broke? At what point in the process?
That mag catch is so simple and you can see what it does -- can you elaborate on why it would not keep the mag in place. What there something wrong with the spring tension?
What ammo were you shooting -- you don't say.
What are you calling the difference between a failure to extract and a failure to eject? Is failure to eject a stovepipe?
JAX -- what is your take on all this?
-
50 rounds of Blazer, and the rest were Speer Gold Dot 115 gr.
The guide rod broke at the end of the session and prevented us from shooting more. I have no idea why the magazine was coming out. Perhaps, the spring loosened up?
Failure to Eject is a stovepipe.
-
I think all of us there could agree that the problem is a combination of gun-issues, ammo-issues and shooter-issues - in *that* order. Failure to maintain per Rohrbaugh recommendations is *not* the problem. Incursion field stripped, cleaned and lubed his gun very carefully and well within the suggested shots-fired range.
Shooter-issues:
Incursion had continuous problems with his gun. He rarely got through a single mag without a problem of some sort.
However, he shot my R-9S extensively and only had one failure. On that failure, he turned around as soon as it happened and said something to the effect of "I think I pulled that one or limp-wristed it". To his credit, he immediately took responsibility when he thought that he might have been the cause of the problem.
I had zero problems with my gun, shooting either FMJ or JHP. When I shot Incursion's R-9, I experienced one FTX. Also, the mag released and dropped into my palm a couple of times. This has *never* happened on my pistol.
I was surprised at the amount and variety of failures that we experienced with Incursion's R-9. Failures which we, including Incursion, did not experience with mine. This is *not* primarily a shooter-issue.
Ammo-issues:
Incursion's R-9 shot more reliably with Blazer FMJ than it did with Gold Dot JHP.
The ejection of Gold Dots was problematic on basically every shot. What Incursion hasn't mentioned is that when his pistol *did* eject the GDs, it tossed the cases straight back into his face. He had multiple strikes to his safety glasses and even had a couple of minor cuts on his forehead (with blood!) by the time we were done. Blazer cases were ejected better, but we still saw some FTX issues.
His GDs shot reliably in my R-9, with multiple shooters, including Incursion. We didn't run any Blazer through mine. (I just don't like the stuff.)
Gun-isues:
1) Lots of FTX. It looked like the extractor claw was "bouncing" over the case rim, chewing it up in the process. I don't know why, but Incursions R-9 is not able to reliably extract the case from the chamber.
2) Some FTE. Not the classic stovepipe. As far as I can recall, every FTE looked the same. The cases were pointing forward, in-line with the barrel, caught between the rear edge of the slide ejection port and the rear edge of the chamber. The case rim was chewed up the same. It looked like the FTEs were FTXs that got a little further - but didn't beat the slide.
3) Mag releasing. Weird. At first, we blamed it on Incursions shooting grip (thought he might be tea-cup gripping - nope). Then we blamed it on his gloves. Pulled them off and it still kept happening.
4) Guide rod. We couldn't beleive what we were seeing. After taking my gun apart, it was clear that the disk end of the guide rod, which butts up to the lug on the bottom of the barrel, is both screwed and welded. The welding broke and the smaller rod came out the front. At this point, we were done with his R-9.
After all of this, I was a little nervous about letting him shoot my gun extensively... Wouldn't you be? :-) We decided to do it anyway. He ran 10 mags through it with a variety of ammo with only the one problem, which he thinks is likely his fault.
More later. SWMBO is getting antsy to get errands done.
Buh-bye!
Jax
-
About Incursions pistol:
Well,.........with this new post from Jax, I must withdraw a few of my past comments, or veiled implications, and will make no more comments on this matter... :-X :-[ :-/
-
>>WOW. Gotta say I am stunned. And like RJ but with a bit more to grovel about...I take back all the unwarrented suspicions I had that Incursion might have been the primary cause of the gun failures (does being jinxed count?)...so I publically apologize to you, Incursion, if I put you on the spot and made you feel uncomfortable here about solving this problem(s). My bad...very, very bad. The thing is...if I were to hear a similar litnay of issues spoken about another gun with problems...probably my first thoughts would again be to check for shooter error. However, if a next time does take place I will try to express my concerns in a less...pointed way? **TW scratches his head**...
The good news is...between Incursion and Jax there is now a rather detailed listing of the problems with Incursion's gun - well done guys...!!...at least I can take some credit for suggesting you get with another R9 shooter to try and figure this all out...does that count as trying to be constructive - lol...??? So...I guess it is back to Rohrbaugh. Wow...I'm glad I'm not Eric just now...I wonder if the life time warranty covers a "jinx"...?... Good luck, Incursion...please do keep us posted. Oh...and Jax - great job of helping Incursion to figure out the problem(s) with his R9...!...and good job of articulating your findings so that even a thick headed being like myself can sort of understand it...!...TW<<
-
Very educational, thanks to Incusrion and Jax for their patience and troubleshooting. Now the bigger question....what specifically is the culprit? Please keep us updated as to what the Rohrbaugh's might think the problem is. A trip to the range yesterday afternoon yielded 4 failures out of 7 magazines. :-[ Two from my shooting and two while a friend was firing it. Will make another trip to the range later this week.
The ejection of Gold Dots was problematic on basically every shot. What Incursion hasn't mentioned is that when his pistol *did* eject the GDs, it tossed the cases straight back into his face. He had multiple strikes to his safety glasses and even had a couple of minor cuts on his forehead (with blood!) by the time we were done. Blazer cases were ejected better, but we still saw some FTX issues.
Has anyone else encountered this issue? I get hit in the forehead about once every other magazine......stings a bit!
-
Quite a litany of problems indeed.
I have to wonder if (mag release aside - and that's a puzzle to me cos I think that release is using main spring .. other end of spring from hammer in other words) the prime issue here was the rear disk coming unscrewed from guide rod. IIRC it is not welded but secured with a near permanent sorta locktite. I did have my original one unscrew a half turn or so and Eric asked for it back ... replacing same for me.
Now even a half turn is significant .. in as much as it effectively lengthens the guide rod! I feel that this might be the crux of the problem .. and it is not something in early stages that would be noticed by many people.
-
Chris,
Do I remember correctly you posting a picture of yours when it backed off slightly? Is it supposed to be flush with the end disc? Or perhaps you could post a picture of one that is correctly intact and mention it on your FAQ site?
Thanks,
Shelby
-
Shelby - indeed ... yes I posted a pic of mine .. have to dig for it ..... ah, found it. This was something I only spotted when I did this pic' ..... it is just apparent if you look hard.
I will put that pic on the site I think .. thx for reminding me I even had it! Maybe then too an extra one to show normal as a comparison.
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/r9s-tests-02/springs-cr-txt-s.jpg)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FYI - I have added a page to the ste just on this very matter ... including that pic ... thx again Shelby for the timely reminder.
Recoil assembly matters (http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/rohrbaugh/basefile/recoil-assy.htm)
-
R95Carry,
On your picture, it looks like there ought to be a small collar of some sort standing proud of the disk which the small guide rod screws into.
Incursion's guide rod came apart right at the edge of the disk, with just a smidge (technical term = ~ 1/16" ) of threading showing on the rod.
Jax
-
Jax - from what you describe it'd seem that something sheered .... indeed, from the collar/disk, there should be a boss - the whole being threaded thru. Going from memory, the disk and boss should look roughly like this .... quick sketch ...
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/rohrbaugh/images/r9collar.jpg)
-
I'm pretty sure that it did shear.
-
Is it possible that you didn't receive a completely new gun from Rohrbaugh when you returned the first one? Perhaps they felt the problem was with the frame, and swapped frames but gave you the same slide you had before - and that the real problem has to do with the slide.
Just brainstorming how you'd end up with two bad ones...
-
No, he said the whole thing was new.
Spoke to Eric. They seem anxious to get the gun back which is a good thing. They've decided to reimburse all of my shipping costs which was greatly appreciated as well.
-
Hey guys, I don't post all that much as I am very busy, but I have been following this thread for awhile. Incursion, your r9s failures echo my first guns performance almost to a tee, FTE's were the name of the game. That gun (a very early one)was sent back to Eric and promptly destroyed, upon recieving my second test gun (my test gun, I pay for them out of my pocket) I proceeded to test it and following Eric and Karls advice on using superlube. (The two of them were convinced I never lubed gun #1 but in reality I was using CLP and EEZOX neither of which is a grease, but this was way before there was ever an issue which I'm sure is partially due to my returned gun!) Anyway, the second gun continued the lousy performance of the first right up to the 440 round mark, since then I have caught brass in the head and had a few (six) Failure to Eject the last case but only with military ball ammo. The gun is now on round 820 and seems to gobble up anything I put in it (except the military ball) I haven't gotten back to Eric in awhile but if your reading this (I know you do sometimes) I will send more details soon.
I guess the reason for this lenghty letter is to let you know you are not the only one who has had difficulties, and if you think the services is good and the gun has merit than keep trying till you get it all worked out. after all it IS just a machine (no matter what some enthusiasts think ;) and is apt to fail. Hell I've had J-frames lock up and officer models eat themselves! If your looking for a truly portable lightweight weapon of tremendous devistating affect that doesn't jam break or leave you hanging in close social events I suggest a Cold Steel SRK!
-
Just got my R9s. Fired 80rds of Remington UMC 115gr.
Four FTE's. One brass was fully still in chamber and came out easily with fingernail. Got hit in the head about six times on extractions. Used pistol just as received from factory.
Have superlube on order. Looking to order gold dot. (The "recalled" gold dots were for primer failures, I think Speer was claiming 1 in 50,000 were defective.)
Any recommendations on 115gr or 124gr Gold dot? Read somewhere that 124gr was more effective as a defensive round in a short barrel compact.
Anyone else used Remmingtom UMC ammo?
-
Ihue ... welcome to the forum ... and congrats on your new R9 :)
UMC? ... not over keen on it - always seems dirty and the one sample I tested to chrono was showing a big spread ... and ME came out real low - 218 ft lbs! I forget it's reliability factor in my R9 but - do not remember it as being high on my list of choices. As plinking ammo it'll do but, probably expect the ocassional malfunction.
Gold Dots .. well my pref is 115's tho - current carry is 124. Go to the new FAQ site I am working on (link in my sig) ... and there are links on that to other test pages .. if you look at expansion performance pics I'd say 115's have an edge ..... tho they are similar in energy.
-
Well UMC was cheap. Just got it for breakin and practice. I take your point on vel spread. Shot my Glock 27 same day 90% in the black. The UMC in R9 was all over the place!
Fliers that I'm sure weren't me.
-
Has Incursion got his R9s back yet or heard anything from Eric?
-
I haven't gotten it back yet. The gunsmiths were at some convention in Ft. Worth this week.
-
I'm getting it back tomorrow. Eric says that they changed the extractor, reamed the chamber, and changed out the mags and recoil assembly. They said the mags were out of spec which is strange because he said they hand checked two of them when they sent them out to me.
Also, he said that my reclassified 115 gr. Speer Gold Dot jammed like crazy.
Haven't you guys been using that stuff? The reclassified Speer from ammoman.com?
I plan to shoot it on Saturday and will report back.
-
Yes - the reclassified Speer 115gr Gold Dot is almost exclusively what I've fired in mine. It is IDENTICAL to standard 115gr Gold Dot, it was simply reclassified due to something other than dimensions (I had heard that there were some hard primers, but others say otherwise).
-
It's stuff like this that irks me.
-
Well, what was the Gold Dot stuff reclassified for?
There is no variation in OAL? What about the powder charge?
There must be a reason its reclassified. I was under the assumption that it was like X-out golf balls -- anything not up to snuff gets sold at a bargain price with a big disclaimer.
I pay golf with Titelist X-outs, but I'm no Tiger Woods.
When this gun gets back Incursion, please feed it factory first 115g Gold Dots and see what happens.
-
I plan to use Blazer since I don't have any first class Gold Dot right now. It was reclassified because of the primers. Remember, I shot this exact same ammo in Jax's gun with no problems.
-
I have shot about 250 rounds of the re-classified 115 gr Gold Dots in my R9S with no problems.
-
It was one very large batch that was reclassified - a finite amount (that's why Ammoman is out of some variations and says there'll be no more). I had heard that there were some hard primers, which caused some misfires in striker-fired pistols. As a result it was all recalled/reclassified and marked "Not for Law Enforcement Use" on the boxes.
Please note that last time this topic came up, the conversation got very heated...so I'm treading lightly. :)
I've fired literally over a thousand rounds of this stuff in 115gr and 124gr +P, and have NEVER had a misfire. None of my pistols are striker-fired, though.
-
I read speer stopped using foil in primers and later found that about 1 in 50,000 would fail. They remarked them "not for LE" and offered them for sale. Exactly the same otherwise.
-
I shot 50 rounds of Blazer and couldn't get through a single mag without a malfunction. Almost all of them were failures to eject. I had 4 range officers shoot the gun as well, and they all had the same problem.
-
How could you have not given up already and sold it to someone on this forum?
-
Blazer. Aluminum case or brass? Both mine seem to like the aluminum case ammo fine.
-
I thought there have been reported problems with Blazer -- or some of it -- can't recall the details. This is not a factory recommended round.
Frankly, with all the issues with this gun of lubrication, ammo, etc. -- I can't keep track of it anymore. Did you ever shoot it after it came back from the factory with the factory lube and with actual first-rate Gold Dots?
I agree with Justin -- its time to call it quits. I would talk to Eric about getting a refund -- they don't have to give you one, but they might. If not, try and sell it here. I would buy it from you if I was in the market for a second.
For whatever reason -- whether its you or the gun or the gravitational field in your area -- this makes two R-9s that have not worked for you. Its not worth the hassle or the effort. This is not meant as an attack on you -- its just common sense at this point.
-
Duane - aluminum case Blazer is fine ... Eric has approved that - plus, it is loaded with the Speer Gold Dot bullets. Surprisingly good round IMO.
The problems are linked with the newer brass cased Blazer, where the rim is not cut sharp enough IIRC and so there can be extraction problems - the claw not getting a good hold on the brass rim.
-
As an old former prosecutor, I'm too cynical to make any constructive comment on this subject other than to say that I second the most recent comments of Justin and Duane.
RS
-
I was using the aluminum stuff and shot it straight from the factory. I just can't believe this gun won't work for me, but I think I'm going to call it quits unless they want to send me another one... maybe the third time is a charm?
-
I remember a fictional character in a cartoon strip called "Li'l Abner", ...his name was "Joe Btfsplk" ,, he walked around with a dark cloud over his head all the time.
Not to show any disrespect to Incursion, but I have known people like this..
I have a brother-in-law that I would not be surprised if he broke a 20# Anvil with a Tack hammer.....
Sorry Incursion...
-
They have emailed me and offered a full refund. I could not sell this gun to someone on this board and feel good about it.
-
Incursion -- I hate to see it end this way, but I think it is a very stand-up way for the Rohrbaughs to hande it.
-
What we need now is a full ''autopsy'' on this gun - some way to find out what was the problem. I am sure Eric and Karl will be digging deep to try and establish this.
-
That was two guns, I believe...............
-
I'm going to take it out one more time, but this time I won't use the grease. I've never had any luck with it. Jax doesn't use grease either. I plan to video tape my session this time.
-
hmmm, they told me not to shoot it anymore and to just send it back.
-
No need to beat a dead horse I guess. What are you going to get instead? Seecamp 380, Kel-tec 3AT, Kahr PM9, S&W 342PD, Colt Pony, or what?
-
I'm not sure yet... probably a Kahr PM9, maybe a NAA. I'm really bummed about my Rohrbaugh not working. :(
-
NAA's are blowback, and heavy but they do accept regular sights. Maybe try again in a year or so with the Rohrbaugh. I'm sorry you invested so much time and energy into your Rohrbaugh and ended up with nothing. :'(
-
Do you think we will ever find out just what was the problem with this gun? ??? ???
-
HLG - I am sure in the fullness of time there will be feedback on this. After all, I'd reckon Eric will want us, owners and prospective owners alike - to know, so that any changes can be made either in the gun, the handling, ammo choice etc.
-
I know a lot of people who like Kahrs but even the smallest aren't pocket guns.
NAA is probably the most durable and reliable of the pocket guns, and in my opinion is one of only a handful of companies that truly take pocket guns seriously. Plan on getting an NAA custom shop sight upgrade and a Teddy Jacobson trigger job to really bring out the best in these guns.