Author Topic: 1st Range Report  (Read 2895 times)

Offline Craigt

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1st Range Report
« on: August 01, 2005, 11:39:42 PM »
Received my R9S about two months ago and believe it or not I was only able to get to the range last week.  Some good, some not so good.  I am not quite disgruntled but not really gruntled either.

Before going to the range I started with a disassembly just to see what it looks like on the inside.  With all of the previous discussion to teach me it really was not difficult at all.  I used a piece of 12 gage copper electric wire for the punch and was surprised that it is plenty strong to do the job of removing the pin.  I was not able, after considerable trying though, to reinstall the guide rod / spring assembly without employing the pliers technique.

I posted some of this info in the thread “Jammed while racking the slide” last week so some of this might be a repeat.

At the range I started with Speer Gold Dot 124 gr (the range did not have the 115 gr.).  For the first 10 magazines I started with an empty chamber and just shot the 6 rounds in the magazine.  1st magazine experienced no failures.  To my surprise and delight the very first round was a bull’s eye at 7 yds, medium slow aim.  The second magazine jammed on round 3.  Mags 3 & 4 no failures.  Mag 5, round 3 jammed, mag 6 round 1 & 3 jammed, mag 7 round 3 jammed.   Some of these had the bullet nose jammed low on the feed ramp,  some with the bullet nose partway into the barrel, and some with the bullet nose jammed at the top of the barrel.  Some of the jams were as Cuteo showed in his photos on July 25 with two bullets overlapping.  Magazines 11 thru 14 started with a round in the chamber.  Mags 13 & 14 both unlatched during the firing of the first round, dropped down about .5 in and did not pick up the next round.  I do not think my fingers hit the latch during firing but it is possible.  I can’t imagine how the mag could become unlatched.  After 88 rounds, 14 magazines full, 12 jams of one sort or another I packed up and went home a bit unhappy.  

I stripped it down and cleaned it thoroughly.  I noticed that the portion of the frame that contacts the bottom of the barrel on each side is a bit rough.  You can see this in Cuteo’s photos, the top left of the bottom four photos.  Is this a normal wear pattern?  I would expect some wear of the anodizing but should it feel rough?  Re-lubricated per instructions and re-assembled.

The next day I went to the range again.  First four mags (7 rounds ea.) of Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. Experienced 2 to 3 jams each.  Switched to Remington 115 gr MC (round nose) ammo.  Four mags full (7 rounds ea.) no failures or jams.  Switched to Federal Hydra-Shok 135 gr, first mag full unlatched the mag & one jam, second mag one jam.  Switched back to Remington 115 gr. MC, one mag full no jams.  The slide was sticking open a bit so I stopped and went home to clean.  When stripped down a piece of what looked like the brass barrel brush fell out from somewhere.  Hope it didn’t damage anything.  

The Gold Dots I was firing measured 1.120 to 1.122 over all length.  Could anyone measure their Gold Dot 124 gr. to verify if this is the correct length?

I cannot replicate the jams while hand cycling the slide.

I did notice that the second round often has a fairly large dent just at the back end of the lead after chambering the first round.

Sorry for being a bit long winded but I hope this might help figure out what is going wrong.  

Any comments & suggestions are most appreciated.  Not about to give up but sure has me baffled.

I might try the Militec as Cuteo has done.

Craig T.

Offline sslater

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Re: 1st Range Report
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2005, 12:10:39 AM »
10 pcs. 124 gr. Gold Dots measured 1.1215" to 1.1220" per my digital caliper.

10 pcs. 115 gr. Gold Dots measured 1.1215" to 1.1220"

10 pcs. 147 Gold Dots measured 1.1205" to 1.1220" with a flyer @ 1.1275".
Amazing consistency!  All the Speer G.D. rounds I fired the other day functioned perfectly in my R9S.

I had a couple of hiccups with Winchester UMC 115 gr. MC (FMJ??) ammo; fed fine, didn't fire the first time.  Five rounds from that same box measured 1.095" to 1.101"

My particular gun is S.N.# R360, and was shipped about two weeks ago.

Hope this helps.

sslater

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: 1st Range Report
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2005, 03:12:47 PM »
Craig - my check on 124's also gives 0.122" as average OAL.

I have 2 R9's - the earliest is now safe queen but even my #2 is quite early - R300.  That digests 115 and 124 GD's very happlily, the only probs I had were IIRC with ammo that was distinctly on short side.  I also find CCI Blazer (which uses same bullet) works very well and that is the aluminum case stuff.

I forget all my figures right now but - if you go to my R9 FAQ site (see my sig) - you should see two buttons on left for #2 and #3 test programs - the main work I did on ammo types.  There I have some info on OAL aspects plus various other things that could be of interest to you.

Sorry to hear you had some glitches - but hopefully they can all be worked out.
Chris - R9S
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R9 FAQ Site
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Offline Craigt

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Re: 1st Range Report
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 10:17:40 PM »
Thanks for measuring the ammo.  I guess mine is normal.  Leaves me baffled.  Not sure what else to do but go try again.  Any other suggestions?

The wear marks on the frame from the barrel concern me a bit.  Have any of you folks noticed if this area is rough or smooth?

Hoping to get to the range tomorrow night.

Craig T.

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: 1st Range Report
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 11:14:51 PM »
The frame wear marks are genuinely normal Craig.

Since this issue was raised I have had discussion with Eric and it is a process which occurs in earlier stages of useage and then reaches a natural limit.  Instance Erics first R9 which is now beyond 5,000 round mark - and shows no more wear there than we might see at 250 rounds.

Here we have aluminum vs steel combined with super tight tolerances but - there is enough very aggressive movement in barrel under lock-up and unlock to just impinge in this area early on.  I daresay if tolerances where not so tight this would  not even be a visible phenomenon.

It is not something the factory regards as in the least prejudicial if I read Eric correctly.
Chris - R9S
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R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Craigt

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Re: 1st Range Report
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 11:25:59 PM »
Thanks R9SCarry.  I will stop worrying about the wear and focus on the jamming.  

By the way,  is there a “dictionary” of the terms for the various failures (such as FTF)?  If I knew all of these terms it might help in describing precisely what is happening.  

Thanks again.

Craig T.

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: 1st Range Report
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 11:33:41 PM »
Craig - shooting (and boards!) are full of acronyms - but re what we are talking about here then I think not so many.

FTF is usually taken as failure to feed.  FTE a failure to extract. Misfire is misfire!  Squib is squib.

Can't think of any more right now that really help - tho others might.

Only ''snafu'' and ''fubar'' but we wouldn't need those hopefully LOL! ;D ;D
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Craigt

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Re: 1st Range Report
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2005, 10:41:57 PM »
I was finally able to get to the range tonight and I am now almost completely gruntled (feeling much more positive about the R9).  I am now convinced that all of my jamming problems were operator induced due to insufficient structural dynamic stiffness and damping in the operator interface.  Ok, ok, I will say it…I WAS LIMP WRISTING.  There, I said it.  The truth will set me free.  I am not Mr. Man Mountain but I am not the 98 lb weakling either.  Over the years I have shot several small auto loaders (including an AMT Backup .380, OUCH) without this jamming problem.  

The shop had Speer Gold Dot 115 gr this time so I started with that.  Used my normal firm grip, 28 rounds no failures.  Went to Gold Dot 124 gr.  On the first round the magazine unlatched and dropped a little, did not chamber round 2, round 3 jammed half way into the chamber.  It was at this point that I suddenly thought that maybe I need to use a much firmer grip.  I believe the magazine unlatch was caused by the gun rotating too much and little pinky pushing the lever.  I had to consciously concentrate on keeping a very firm grip.  26 round, 2 feed jams though I am sure I relaxed a bit on my grip.  14 more rounds Gold Dot 115 gr, no failures.  

The salesman had suggested I try the Winchester Ranger 147 SXT.  14 Rounds, no failures.

I found that the dent some of us are seeing in the brass occurs occasionally to round 2 while cycling the slide to chamber round 1.  Doesn’t happen every time.

More than half of the holes in the targets seem to indicate a tumbling bullet.  Half of the hole is clean, the other half is ragged.  

I also shot my Colt Pony .380.  Almost identical in size to the R9.  Much less felt recoil.  Trigger very heavy & short travel compared to the silky long R9.  The Pony has rough anti-skid tape on the front & back of the grip.  It really helps to control the torqueing.  I will try some on the R9.

I will give one or two more range sessions without failure before using for carry.

Feeling much better.  Will report after next range session.  Thanks for all of the help folks.

Craig T.

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: 1st Range Report
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2005, 11:01:06 PM »
Craig - that does sound most encouraging.  I personally was not over impressed with Ranger SXT's but that was partly to do with my wet pack evaluation.

True enough - you will see some tumbling and more so with those rounds I think that GD's - mainly cos IIRC they are a shorter round and so the ''jump'' into the large freebore is longer - something I feel affects tumble significantly.
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.