Author Topic: Ammo Shortage...  (Read 14314 times)

Offline kjtrains

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2009, 09:35:33 PM »
G-whiz!!  I thought it was North Danube.  Now we all know.   ;D     ;D
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline tracker

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2009, 04:21:44 PM »
The ammo situation seemed to improve slightly but now
looks to be tight again. The main consistent ammo supply
seems to be coming from foreign sources, such as "Monarch"
from Serbia.
I had CCI Stinger .22 on back order for 3 months from Cabela's
and they just cancelled the back order. The 9mm. Silvertip back
order was just updated to July 15. That is also 3 months running.

Offline kjtrains

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2009, 10:27:14 PM »
Just got an email from the Sportsman's Guide that my order for Remington Golden Sabres 147 gr. has shipped today.  Order placed 5/2/09.  Still waiting on Winchester 115 gr. Silvertips; expected ship date 7/20/09; also an order from Cabela's, for Silvertips, has been pushed to 7/15/09 as Tracker mentioned previously.  That order was placed on 4/20/09.  
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 10:30:10 PM by kjtrains »
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline ACP

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2009, 07:29:49 PM »
Please post coments regarding 147 grain bullets. As you may recall, I am a "Richard groupie" and regard the 147 grain as the premier bullet.

I don't know the math but it is my belief that the heavier bullet facilitates slide travel and (for me) erases concern over FTF AND FTE.

Those who turn their guns into plowshares end up plowing for those that do not - Thomas Jefferson

Offline kjtrains

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2009, 07:33:21 PM »
Makes sense!
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline tracker

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2009, 10:34:01 PM »
ACP,

If that is the case I will take reliability over velocity every time.
As I recall someone said they would do a range comparison and
give us something more than an anecdotal opinion.

I will look forward to that comparison, specific to the R9. As for
now I really like the Critical Defense 115 gr..

Offline kjtrains

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2009, 10:56:20 PM »
I'm still liking the Winchester Silvertips.  I have the Critical Defense and soon the Golden Sabres and they are backups.  It's good to know others are having success with these two.  I'll just use the Silvertips as long as I can find them.  I also have Gold Dots in 115 gr. and 124 gr.  They are backups as well.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 10:59:36 PM by kjtrains »
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline Richard S

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2009, 12:03:15 AM »
Quote
Please post coments regarding 147 grain bullets. As you may recall, I am a "Richard groupie" and regard the 147 grain as the premier bullet.

I don't know the math but it is my belief that the heavier bullet facilitates slide travel and (for me) erases concern over FTF AND FTE.


The debate over bullet loads in 9mm Parabellum is about as vigorous as that involving 1911 vs. Glock or revolver vs. semi-automatic. I personally prefer to use a heavier load in a defensive handgun, wanting to dump as much kinetic energy as possible into the threat in a defensive shooting. In order to "soup up" the lighter 9mm loads, such as 115 and 124-grain, manufacturers have loaded some of those bullets to +P and +P+ pressures. Of course, our R9 is not designed for +P or +P+ loads.

The 147-grain 9mm JHP was first developed, I believe, for the Navy Seals to execute accurate head shots from suppressed weapons. Some law enforcement agencies also adopted the load, but there were some spotty results with expansion of some brands in the early years. In the years since, however, there have been great improvements in bullet design for the 147-grain 9mm JHP, and it is my understanding that the San Diego Police Department has been using the load successfully for almost two decades.

I load the 147-grain Remington Golden Saber BJHP in my R9, and have found it to be very accurate. (I used to load it in my HK P7 as well until I learned that the P7's gas-retarded recoil system had been designed specifically around the 115/124 NATO round.) It just seems to me that the modern-day 147-grain 9mm JHP offers, in a smaller package of course, some of the terminal performance of the 230-grain .45 ACP JHP.

Now, as I said, the debate is vigorous and reasonable minds will differ.


[size=10][Edit: Typos.][/size]

« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 08:08:16 AM by Richard_S »
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"

Offline ACP

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2009, 08:22:19 AM »
Please bear in mind that the 147 grain bullet, (Golden Sabre and Hornady TAP) is the ONLY premium 9MM I have found in my area.

I stand by my statement as to being inspired by Richard's comments, without which, I would not have even tried the heavier bullet. So, mine is a happy coincidence induced by necessity, given the present shortage.
Those who turn their guns into plowshares end up plowing for those that do not - Thomas Jefferson

Offline tracker

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2009, 11:18:24 AM »
The only alleged issue with the 147 gr. was the possibility
of "key holing" due to the R9 barrel twist rate, length, etc..
I don't recall any resolution of that subject.

Offline Richard S

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2009, 03:25:09 PM »
Our Forum member "flyandscuba" posted this photograph of the results of some newspaper wetpack testing which he and "oldgrandpa" conducted back in the summer of 2006. I saved it for reference in my "Ammunition" folder.


On the general subject of bullet tumbling or key holing, and  although it has no particular relevance to the subject of performance of various defensive loads out of our little R9 "pocket rockets," it is interesting to note that many contemporary Russian-made 7.62x39 cartridges contain a modified M67 bullet specifically designed to enhance tumbling.

(If you contemplate this stuff long enough, you get a headache.)    :-/


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Offline tracker

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2009, 04:09:34 PM »
Thanks for that, Richard.

Offline kjtrains

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2009, 07:12:25 PM »
Good to know!   Thanks!
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline ACP

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2009, 07:57:22 PM »
Love that graphic and thank you for posting. Is the 147 grain bullet not the star of show?
Those who turn their guns into plowshares end up plowing for those that do not - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Richard S

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Re: Ammo Shortage...
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2009, 08:44:29 PM »
Quote
Love that graphic and thank you for posting. Is the 147 grain bullet not the star of show?

All I can say by way of defense of my position is that the Remington Golden Saber was not represented.   ;)
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"