Author Topic: Report on Snubby Summit  (Read 6781 times)

Offline DDGator

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Report on Snubby Summit
« on: December 05, 2005, 12:52:01 PM »
Hey guys,

Back from the OPS Snubby Summit in Titusville.  It was held at the Police Hall of Fame, which has an excellent classroom facility and the best indoor range I have ever seen.

OPS put together an incredible case of characters – some legendary, some becoming legends.  Mas Ayoob, Jim Cirillo, Ed Lovette, Michael “BoBo” DeBethancourt, SouthNarc – just to name a few.  

The training was very impressive.  A lot of it was “overviews” or somewhat fast-paced – to get it all done in two days.  It was seminar style with one class and two range sessions going on all the time – so you had to make some choices.  

I did “shooting through clothing” with Ayoob which included shooting through jackets as well as the draw from the pocket and from a jacket.  I heard Cirillo speak on snubby ammo, including his own patented bullet (a slotted head wad cutter) that seems very interesting.  The guys from Crimson Trace (good trainers of their own right) did a class in shooting from awkward positions, and discussed the pros and cons of various carry methods.  I also shot a snubby specific course of live fire with various drills.

And all that was Day 1…

On Day 2 I spend several hours with DeBethancourt learning his entirely different manual of arms for the revolver – with weak hand loading and keeping the gun in the strong hand.  I gotta say – I am sold on it.  Also spent half the day with Southnarc learning extreme close quarters combat – from 0 to 3 feet.  It included awareness training, learning how to keep distance, pre-emptive open hand strikes, defensive postures, and how to plug in the gun at contact distances.  This last part involved simunitions and I have five nasty welts to commemorate my bad guy role-playing failures…

Perhaps the best part was having dinner with Jimmy Cirillo.  If you don’t know him or haven’t read his book, he is an NYPD legend.  A member of the NYPD stake-out squad for its entire existence, he won 17 gunfights.  The unit experienced 252 shootings over its history, before it was disbanded.  If you think the stories in the book are entertaining, you should hear them from the source.  Nice guy and a great storyteller.  Worth the price of admission to have dinner with a hero and hear all the unpublished stories.

I have a few photos I will post later.  Others are sharing their photos with me so I will try to post them.

Also, I will work on my thoughts about the snubby in comparison to the R-9 (based on any new perspective I have now) and give you some thoughts on that too.

If you guys have specific questions let me know and I will field those too if I can.  
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Offline Newt

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2005, 02:42:04 PM »
Did you discuss the R9 vs snubbie with these experts and if so what was there opiion of the R9?
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Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2005, 09:52:56 PM »
Sounds like a great time Duane - some pics would indeed be very good to see :)
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Offline DDGator

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2005, 10:43:26 PM »
In persuing my camera... not a lot of great pics.  Others are sharing with me though.  I was so busy training I wasn't taking too many pics.

Here is one showing the very nice indoor range.  The guy in the middle is Ayoob shooting his 2.5" Colt Python (gamer  ::) )



Next is a picture of the whole panel.  The people in the front of the room (sitting) from left to right: Claude Werner (Rogers Shooting School), Jim Cirillo (NYPD Stakeout Squad veteran), Walt Rausch (gun writer, trainer), Massad Ayoob (Lethal Force Institute), Michael DeBethencourt (Northeastern Tactical School), Jim Clark (OPS), Ed Lovette (Author and former CIA field officer), Clyde Caceres (Crimson Trace), Tom Givens (Rangemaster), Paul Gomez (OPS), and "Southnarc" (undercover drug enforcement agent and SWAT commander).  Standing in the back is Andy Stanford of OPS.



Last pic is me and Jim Cirillo, a true American Hero. (Note the Rohrbaugh hat  ;) )


Duane (DDGator)
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Offline DDGator

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2005, 10:48:39 PM »
Newt,

I wore a Rohrbaugh hat both days, to see what reaction it would get.  None.  On day two I wore the hat that says "Rohrbaugh Firearms."  Still none.  A few participants I mentioned it to had no idea what I was talking about.

Tom Givens gave a lecture on modern "pocket rockets."  I had to miss it when the schedule was reorganized at the last minute.  I talked to him afterward and he was saying that there were far better semi-autos available for pocket carry that would out-do any J-frame.  

I asked him about his opinion of the Rohrbaugh.  He had never seen one and doesn't consider it a viable option for people now because of its lack of availability.  He questioned me more about it (I offered to show it to him on the range, but he declined), and then said his requirement was a three finger grip and large visible sights.  Basically he concluded summarily that the R-9 was too small.

I didn't get a chance to talk to any of the big dogs about it.
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Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2005, 10:57:52 PM »
Thx again Duane - pics always great.  Great pic of you and Jim - what a character :)

I daresay the R9 is still almost too new to a lot of these folks - who also maybe do not think quite that small (yet!).
Chris - R9S
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Offline Richard S

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2005, 12:30:08 PM »
Duane:

Good report.  Thank you.

Is the gentleman seated sixth from the left the Jim Clark from Clark Custom Guns?  If so, I am doubly sorry that I was not able to attend.  CCG turned my standard issue 1911 into a work of art.  I would like to have met him.
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Offline DDGator

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2005, 12:38:46 PM »
Richard -- no, I don't think so. This Jim Clark is based out of Florida and is a trainer with Options for Personal Security.

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Offline tracker

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2005, 02:02:13 PM »
Looks like "Southnarc" is no longer undercover.

Offline DDGator

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2005, 02:27:27 PM »
True.  Southnarc (Craig) is no longer undercover.  He runs a multi-jurisdictional drug task force and is the SWAT Team commander for his agency.  The name has just stuck...

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Re: Report on Snubby Summit
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2005, 11:02:01 PM »
I'm not sure how the covert ops stuff works but from the
little I know about the narcotics underworld those guys
have long lists and long memories; I would not want to go
from undercover to cover blown.l