The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => The Water Cooler -- General Discussions => Topic started by: DDGator on March 03, 2014, 10:48:33 AM
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Exciting new information relating to the recent changes discussed on this forum.
Rohrbaugh Firearms has been acquired by an existing (large) firearms company. As a condition of the transaction, Karl and Eric are limited on what they can say or do right now, during this transition period. The name of the acquiring company is not public information yet.
The best news is that both Karl and Eric are remaining with the new company and will be an integral part of the Rohrbaugh brand going forward. They are very excited about the opportunities in front of them.
We also now know that the Rohrbaugh maufacturing facilities are being moved to Pineville, North Carolina.
I will keep you all up to date as new information becomes publicly available. I think you all will agree that this would appear to be great news for the Rohrbaugh brand. Exciting times are ahead!
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Para Ordnance was purchased by Freedom Group and moved to Pineville N.C., a small suburb of Charlotte, pop. ~7800.
January 30, 2012
Freedom Group Buys Para USA
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by CTD Mike
Related Topics: Industry News
Freedom Group continues to acquire major firearms manufacturers at an astonishing pace. Earlier today they announced the acquisition of Para USA. Para Ordnance was located in Canada when they became the first successful manufacturer of high-capacity pistols based on John Browning’s 1911 design. In 2009 they moved their manufacturing facility to Pineville, North Carolina and changed their name to Para USA. No details were given on the specifics of today’s buyout in the official press release by Freedom Group.
CTD Mike's shooting buddy Josh loves his 18 shot Para
According to today’s press release, Para will continue building guns in Pineville. However, Freedom Group has a reputation for consolidating manufacturing in two areas, Ilion, New York and Mayfield, KY. Freedom Group closed down the Bushmaster plant in Windham, Maine and moved production of Bushmaster rifles to Ilion. Former Bushmaster employees let go by Freedom Group later started their own rifle production at the old Bushmaster plant under the name Windham Weaponry.
More recently, Freedom Group fired the top three people at Advanced Armament Corp, giving rise to rumors that AAC will also be moving to New York to consolidate with Remington. Freedom Group’s Chief Sales and Marketing Officer, E. Scott Blackwell denies those rumors.
Freedom Group’s press release states that Para will supply handguns “for consumers and our channel partners,” so expect to see Para built pistols sold under other brand names also owned by the company. Remington currently builds R1 handguns at their Ilion plant, so it appears that Remington 1911s will compete directly with single stack Para 1911s for the time being. Will we see a double stack, high capacity 1911 with the Remington name on it? Will Para stay in North Carolina or will they be relocated? What will Freedom Group buy next? Only they know for sure.
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Wow! What types of changes have been made to products that are now made under the freedom brand rather than the original makers?
Can we expect an improvement or decline in service/quality etc?
Marketing will probably increased and price and production will likely also be affected.
What will happen to our pre-freedom R9's warranty and values? Values seem like they would surely go up. Buy one now if ya can : )
INTRIGUING!
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I can only speculate, but the R-brothers are pleased with the move and excited about the future, so I don't think that would mean decreased anything if I know these guys. It would certainly seem to mean a lot more money and resources at their disposal for customer servcie, manufacturing and R&D.
As far as warranty goes, the buyer purchased the company. When you purchase the company, the warranty obligations come along with the ownership. If they wanted to abandon the existing customers, they would have purchased only the assets and stripped the company bare. Then again, why buy a high-end trademark just to trash the existing customer base? That would not make sense. I think this is good news for those who like the guns.
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I hope you are correct. I have one that seems to be totally defective which I purchased NEW recently. I talked to them and tried a few of it's preferred ammo they suggested. Noting functions reliably. It seems like a really strange move to disappear for weeks leaving everyone in the dark on what's going on.
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Hard to say what is strange because things like this don't happen very often. The entire company was purchased. Karl and Eric are under contactual obligations about what they can say or do right now. They aren't in control of this transition. I suspect all will of these issues will be addressed before long.
Large companies don't buy well-known brands just to ignore them. Large companies buy well known brands to take advantage of their reputation and realize the full value of the brand's potential. The fact that they are keeping Karl and Eric going forward should speak volumes.
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DDGator said
"Large companies don't buy well-known brands just to ignore them. Large companies buy well known brands to take advantage of their reputation and realize the full value of the brand's potential. The fact that they are keeping Karl and Eric going forward should speak volumes."
This is all true and it happens every day in Corporate America.
It happened to the company I worked at for 30 years. One thing I do know that after Karl and Eric have been their own bosses for 10+ years or more, they will not be happy in the new environment. I put in my 2 years to satisfy the contract I signed and left. Best move I ever made.
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One thing I do know that after Karl and Eric have been their own bosses for 10+ years or more, they will not be happy in the new environment. I put in my 2 years to satisfy the contract I signed and left. Best move I ever made.
I think they realize that things are going to be different, and they accept that. However, the grind of running a small company on small margins and fighting to get every gun out the door (even though demand exceeded supply) was really draining on them. They are hopeful that joining a large company with an established infrastructure that is dedicated to their products will allow them to do some of the projects and high level design work that has been beyond their reach.
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Agreed.
Bob: PM me if you would like to sell your R9
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Freedom Group just changed their name a couple months ago to Remington Outdoor Company -- they're one of the largest firearms manufacturers in the world.
In addition to Para, they own at least 15 firearms related companies including Remington, Bushmaster, DPMS, Barnes, and Marlin.
They are expanding rapidly-- for example, just last week they announced a new firearms manufacturing plant in Alabama that will employ more than 2000 people.
Buying Rohrbaugh would be a good move for them.
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Freedom Group just changed their name a couple months ago to Remington Outdoor Company -- they're one of the largest firearms manufacturers in the world.
In addition to Para, they own at least 15 firearms related companies including Remington, Bushmaster, DPMS, Barnes, and Marlin.
They are expanding rapidly-- for example, just last week they announced a new firearms manufacturing plant in Alabama that will employ more than 2000 people.
Buying Rohrbaugh would be a good move for them.
I certainly hope the new Marlin's are not an example of the quality that the new owners will produce with the Rohrbaugh's. There is one nationally advertised gunsmith that charges a premium just to make the new Marlin's function. JMHO
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I must say that the transition is already NOT a smooth one. I sent a R9 in to them for repairs after speaking with Maria a couple weeks ago. Rohrbaugh refused the shipment twice and it was returned to me. I had also ordered extra recoil springs and black grip screws.
I feel left out in the rain, as I'm sure others on this forum do, too.
You can't just up and move and cease ALL forms of communication, especially when you warrant your product and are the only outlet for parts.
I'm not happy with how my specific case was handled AT ALL....
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Exactly. I'm in the same situation as you. Zero response in 2 weeks while in the middle of a repair/replacement.
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I must say that the transition is already NOT a smooth one. I sent a R9 in to them for repairs after speaking with Maria a couple weeks ago. Rohrbaugh refused the shipment twice and it was returned to me. I had also ordered extra recoil springs and black grip screws.
I feel left out in the rain, as I'm sure others on this forum do, too.
You can't just up and move and cease ALL forms of communication, especially when you warrant your product and are the only outlet for parts.
I'm not happy with how my specific case was handled AT ALL....
Eric mentioned your situation. Given the timeframe of the deal, their FFL had to be moved. He had no choice, legally, but to refuse delivery at an unlicensed location. I am sure that your situation will be made right -- it is just very bad timing.
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According to the FFL checker it's still valid at that address. If you have contact with them I would suggest you encourage a formal announcement with some dates we can expect them to start supporting customers. If they're closed for good I won't waste more time and will suck it up to see if a gunsmith locally can figure things out on mine. First it was a move, then it was a sale. It's looking like closed down more with every passing day. If someone had actually purchased the company they would be taking calls and saving face. Doing PR damage control and the standard business 101 stuff.
Federal Firearms License Results
Warning: No one may use this screen, in lieu of the required certified copy of a Federal Firearms License, to acquire a firearm.
License Number:
6-11-XXX-XX-XX-00248
Expiration Date:
03/01/2015
License Name:
ROHRBAUGH FIREARMS CORP
Trade Name:
Premise Address:
71-73 EAST JEFRYN BLVD
DEER PARK
NY - 11729
Mailing Address:
PO BOX 785
BAYPORT
NY - 11705
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I am very careful to ensure things I say are true. I'm not just some schmuck with an internet connection making this stuff up -- I've got a pretty good history of being right about Rohrbaugh if you care to review the history of this forum. I am not wrong about this.
For the record, it is a MOVE and a SALE. At first, all they could say is that they were moving the factory, which was true. Then, the purchaser allowed them to divulge some limited additional facts that the company had been sold.
There is no IF the company was sold -- it was sold. As for when the new purchaser may choose to start answering the phones -- I have no idea. However, I suspect that they didn't buy an existing company just to shut the doors.
As for the FFL checker -- I have no idea. Perhaps it is not up to date. Perhaps there is other licensing involved in accepting firearms for repair in New York beyond an FFL. Perhaps the new purchaser's legal department has an opinion about what they can and can't do in the midst of a relocation. Maybe they were told they couldn't accept the gun because they had no equipment left to fix it in New York and weren't allowed to transport it across state lines and ship it back from a different location. What I do know is this -- a couple of guns arriving in Deer Park were refused because the Rohrbaughs were told they could not legally accept them in Deer Park anymore.
There is not a conspiracy hiding under every rock.
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Well with all the ammo samples, trips to the range, fedex fees, and initial cost of the purchase it's gotten to be a large waste of money and time by now. I think frustration is totally justified. I've talked to a few other *"angry"** customers off line as well. I appreciate that you have some loyalty to them and that's fine. I'm just some new guy here who purchased a VERY expensive pistol NEW with a warranty that doesn't appear to be worth the paper it was printed on. How do I even get parts for it now?
I imagine this situation will grow exponentially as more people try to get service done, or call on orders they have placed. Do people have deposits on firearms? Have they fulfilled all the accessory orders in? When I called my dealer on Monday he had no idea and had 2 pistols on order with them.
This is a public forum to discuss the pistols and that's my opinion on the situation.
** initially stated that I had anger issues in prior post. "Wow..You really seem to have some anger issues over this"..
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Yes, I quickly changed my mind about whether it was appropriate for me to comment on your anger. You can be angry if you like. It is a public forum, created by me. I want to be sure I am following my own standards for polite conduct.
What I didn't care for was the insinuation that the information that I was conveying to the forum was wrong, or the implication that this was all some type of cover up. It's kind of like coming into my house and calling me a liar. The anonymitiy of the Internet allows us to say things and question people in ways we would never do face to face.
And yes, the Rohrbaughs are my friends and I don't like various insinuations (not just you) that they are bad or unethical in business, or that they are taking advantage of their popularity to provide sub-standard customer service, or they are stealing customers' deposits, or they are leaving town in the middle of the night, or whatever. It is particularly frustrating to me (and to them) because they don't have any control over the lack of communciation at this point -- their hands are tied. I guess if you want to judge the new purchaser and condemn that company for treating you this way -- then so be it.
My hope is simply that people accept the information that I have provided and give this a little bit of time for the full story to develop. I know in this day and age we expect immediate results -- but delays happen, even to big businesses.
Also, there isn't going to be a problem with your warranty or getting parts. Rohrbuagh Firearms was sold -- it didn't go out of business. Now you are going to have a very large, well-established company standing behind your pistol and ensuring your parts availability in the future -- instead of a very small company. Once this intitial period of delay is gone, you are actually in a far better position now than when you purchased the gun. In my opinion, of course.
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Normally if 95 out of 100 guns are reliable, then the problem is in the ammo. It's a good guess that the new buyers want the brand name, and a sale to a well run larger company will be beneficial.
But when you spend big bucks on a self defense gun, and the gun is iffy - then anyone would have anger issues.
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I am very careful to ensure things I say are true. I'm not just some schmuck with an internet connection making this stuff up -- I've got a pretty good history of being right about Rohrbaugh if you care to review the history of this forum. I am not wrong about this.
For the record, it is a MOVE and a SALE. At first, all they could say is that they were moving the factory, which was true. Then, the purchaser allowed them to divulge some limited additional facts that the company had been sold.
There is no IF the company was sold -- it was sold. As for when the new purchaser may choose to start answering the phones -- I have no idea. However, I suspect that they didn't buy an existing company just to shut the doors.
As for the FFL checker -- I have no idea. Perhaps it is not up to date. Perhaps there is other licensing involved in accepting firearms for repair in New York beyond an FFL. Perhaps the new purchaser's legal department has an opinion about what they can and can't do in the midst of a relocation. Maybe they were told they couldn't accept the gun because they had no equipment left to fix it in New York and weren't allowed to transport it across state lines and ship it back from a different location. What I do know is this -- a couple of guns arriving in Deer Park were refused because the Rohrbaughs were told they could not legally accept them in Deer Park anymore.
There is not a conspiracy hiding under every rock.
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I fully endorse the foregoing remarks of the Forum Administrator.
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It is particularly frustrating to me (and to them) because they don't have any control over the lack of communciation at this point -- their hands are tied. I guess if you want to judge the new purchaser and condemn that company for treating you this way -- then so be it.
I think it is fair to criticize the Rohrbaughs for not having handled this very gracefully (to be kind). They clearly expended significant effort meeting and planning and agonizing and deciding to make the sale & move--there can be few excuses for how they managed to do that without insisting to the new owners (and themselves) that the transition did absolutely need to take into account that they have numerous existing service issues they are dealing with, and new sales also, with (accordingly) new customer issues, and to make certain these customers were not left hanging.
Business 101.
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It is particularly frustrating to me (and to them) because they don't have any control over the lack of communciation at this point -- their hands are tied. I guess if you want to judge the new purchaser and condemn that company for treating you this way -- then so be it.
I think it is fair to criticize the Rohrbaughs for not having handled this very gracefully (to be kind). They clearly expended significant effort meeting and planning and agonizing and deciding to make the sale & move--there can be few excuses for how they managed to do that without insisting to the new owners (and themselves) that the transition did absolutely need to take into account that they have numerous existing service issues they are dealing with, and new sales also, with (accordingly) new customer issues, and to make certain these customers were not left hanging.
Business 101.
Maybe they are not in control of the sale. It certainly looks that way to me.
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While I may not personally agree with way this transition is perceived to be unfolding, I will be the first to acknowledge that I do not know the circumstances that led to its start or the way it is being handled.
It is easy for us to stand on the sidelines and criticize actions that we may not fully understand or have an appreciation for. We are not the ones in the direct line of fire that have to make the tough decisions and hopefully find a way to survive.
What I do know is that we would not know as much as we do if it had not been for the willingness of DDGator to try and keep us informed.
This seems like a tough situation for both the Rohrbaugh Company, their customers and followers and I would like to offer encouragement that the brand, quality and good customer service will return.
Again, thanks to DDGator for keeping us informed.
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It is particularly frustrating to me (and to them) because they don't have any control over the lack of communciation at this point -- their hands are tied. I guess if you want to judge the new purchaser and condemn that company for treating you this way -- then so be it.
I think it is fair to criticize the Rohrbaughs for not having handled this very gracefully (to be kind). They clearly expended significant effort meeting and planning and agonizing and deciding to make the sale & move--there can be few excuses for how they managed to do that without insisting to the new owners (and themselves) that the transition did absolutely need to take into account that they have numerous existing service issues they are dealing with, and new sales also, with (accordingly) new customer issues, and to make certain these customers were not left hanging.
Business 101.
I fully endorse the remarks of MaxBlack.
I know this will sound like conspiracy to some of the users here, but I find it an interesting fact. Based on my serial number and the last frame serial number (6678) they have not been making very many pistols over the last four or five months. I'd guess they either stopped production near the end of 2013 of have been down to about 20-30 a month. This is just a guess based on dates I know of on my unit.
I hope that DDGator is correct and that this is just a poorly structured sale we are dealing with.
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I also thank DD for his efforts now and in the past. My first R9 was perfect, but I stupidly sold it to upgrade to a Covert. When I had a problem with that pistol, Karl and Maria and staff were wonderful to deal with and that pistol is now my reliable EDC. My third R9 is rarely fired, but so far I've not had any problems with it. I would agree that there is very likely more to the story than we will know, but the Rohrbaugh team has always been ethical and customer oriented and will, I am confident, be so again.
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I do not question their ethics and can imagine that the opportunity the Rohrbaughs faced was hectic and stressful. All I'm saying is that regardless of any of that, Rule #1 in any business is to take care of your customers first. No matter how intimidating the situation might have been for them, it was within their rights to insist that certain things be done to protect their fine customers. They messed-up.
Even if there were only two, the two guys here that I've seen with problems, these should have mattered first to the company.
Now I step down off my soapbox because I'm sure I screwed-up many many times over my business career (now retired so yes it's easy for me to criticize) and I thank DDGator for bringing us the information he has and commend him for supporting his friends through this no-doubt-difficult-for-all transition period.
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I know this will sound like conspiracy to some of the users here, but I find it an interesting fact. Based on my serial number and the last frame serial number (6678) they have not been making very many pistols over the last four or five months. I'd guess they either stopped production near the end of 2013 of have been down to about 20-30 a month. This is just a guess based on dates I know of on my unit.
Yes, this is part of what I keep saying. Rohrbaugh was a very small company with a few employees doing a small volume of business. (All of which makes it that much more impressive that they produced high quality products with a strong and loyal customer base). I don't doubt that your numbers could be correct -- although guns don't necessarily come out of the factory in sequential order.
They see this sale (and their continued invovlement) as a way to fix the inherent problems of a small business and still produce the guns they love. There is far more potential ahead of them with the resources of a larger, established company. If you look at this industry, the small players don't tend to survive. And to the extent they do, they are often plagued with production volume issues -- i.e., they can't make enough product to keep their supply lines full.
That being said, when you sell your closely-held company to a much larger company, you don't get to dicatate how and when they start answering your phone. Sorry, that sounds good, but it is not reality.
Some will attribute their experience to mismanagement or negligence or whatever, and I don't expect to change anyone's mind. Only time will tell.
I expect that all will be revealed in the fullness of time.
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Duane, you are doing a superb job of dealing with all this gratuitous and trivial criticism that has cluttered the Forum lately regarding the sale of Rohrbaugh Firearms.
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"This too shall pass."
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"This too shall pass."
Sorta like a kidney stone.
Joking aside...I've been a customer of this small, family business for a long time and have been extremely well treated each and every time I've had contact with the Rohrbaugh family. As the owner of a small business myself, I'm legally aware enough to know that when the lawyers say "do not discuss...." (fill in the blank) it can void the deal...have costly confidentiality violation penalties...etc.
Please remember that hurricane Sandy wiped out one of the owners' residences and most of the factory, as I recall. Things like that are not easy to recover from in any way, much less the short time since the hurricane...what...1 1/2 years ago?
These are honorable people who very purely love their trade and are proud of the pistol they designed that bears their name. How would you like to sell YOUR creation...Your baby? I give them a lot of credit for trying to save the......(fill in the blank).
Give them time to work things out. I can only believe they will do everything in their power correct whatever issues exist. I'm also pretty sure these old, original pups will be a superb investment. Mine aren't going anywhere.
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All we can do is laugh and wait at this point. Nobody to even yell at on the phone these days.
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the factory wasnt near any flooded areas during hurricane sandy
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I don't believe the factory had damage from Sandy. However, Eric's house had a lot of damage, and Karl's house was virtually destroyed. Sandy had a devastating effect on the Rohrbaugh brothers.
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I think it was near flooded areas but in any case Karl lost his home and I seriously doubt that any one close to that part of Long Island could navigate to work. Any place that was near sea level on that part of the South Shore was severely affected. My daughter lives on the upper east side in Manhattan and was relatively untouched and did not even lose power because of the high elevation. I used to live in Long Beach, N.Y. and that town still hasn't recovered from the devastation. Are you saying that the Rohrbaugh factory was fully functional without a loss of electrical power during Sandy? Even if that were the case, so what?
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From an inside source:
Unfortunately due to damages incurred by hurricane Sandy we will not be able to attend this year’s Shot Show. At the 2012 Shot Show we introduced two NEW Custom R9 Models. The NEW Tribute is modeled after our R9 that was featured in NRA’s Shooting Illustrated magazine. The article went on to say that there were many great pistols and revolvers introduced that year, but the Rohrbaughs technical innovations and practicality are what garnered it a Golden Bullseye Award as the NRA “Shooting Illustrated 2005 Handgun of the Year”.
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I didn't read in your inside source that the factory sustained damage.
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Factory=Family operation (including local employees).
Family damaged by Sandy=Factory damaged by Sandy regardless of physical effect on the buidling
Just sayin'
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As someone who has been involved in a number of mergers and/or acquisitions, if either party is a publicly traded company, there are very strict rules, laws, and regulations about the timing of the disclosure of the transaction---violation of any of them bring the potential of severe penalties including jail time. (IIRC, I believe Martha Stewart went to jail for using information about a transaction before it was publicly announced)
Communication may seem to have been handled poorly especially considering the amazingly high level of customer service we have received from Karl, Eric, and Maria in the past but I think the "communications plan" is beyond their control at the moment.
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i was responding to the post that stated that they thought the factory had been damaged. what i was saying is that there was no major long term damage to the factory . the factory was not near any flooded area. it is basically almost in the north/south center of long island, far from the ocean and far from the sound obviously it was very difficult to get around. i had no electricity for 11 days. some people never lost electricity. i have no idea if or for how long the factory had no power. the house next to mine got electricity back 4 days before i did, so there is no way for me to know.
im sure they like many suffered a severe financial hit that they have had a hard time recovering from. i have no idea how much that influenced the sale or even if it did.
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Thanks for keeping us all posted DDGator.
As we consider this a saying of my father in law comes to mind ...
"if if's and but's were candies and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas"
It's just life. I'm just glad that they will remain in business and that I do have a decently functioning original now that you guys schooled me.
Wish it didn't have so many "test" rounds through it, but mine has some character I can tell ya.
Hopefully they will be up and running before long : )
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It occurs to me that the new owners may choose to ramp up production in order to recoup their purchase cost. Maybe we'll see the magic 10,000 # that Crimson Trace wants in order to make a laser in 2 years instead of 4. Then we all get to buy new holsters! Also, you gotta suspect Deer Park guns will see an increase in value as collector items. Not that anyone here would sell...
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I absolutely believe that a new owner with lots of resources would crank up production numbers. Demand has always out-paced supply, so the brothers have always been leaving money on the table.
Another interesting thought it what this means for the price. Larger volumes of production should mean lower prices.
And I do agree that the "original" hand-fitted guns made in New York will have more desirability and collectability (and value).
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I must say that the transition is already NOT a smooth one. I sent a R9 in to them for repairs after speaking with Maria a couple weeks ago. Rohrbaugh refused the shipment twice and it was returned to me. I had also ordered extra recoil springs and black grip screws.
I feel left out in the rain, as I'm sure others on this forum do, too.
You can't just up and move and cease ALL forms of communication, especially when you warrant your product and are the only outlet for parts.
I'm not happy with how my specific case was handled AT ALL....
I have to ask, is the gun you attempted to return to the factory the gun you are currently trying to sell on gunbroker?
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Nope. I currently have 4 Pups in my dog pound. My faulty one is a new Stealth with a trigger that only pulls the hammer all the way back about once in every three attempts. Maria thought it was burrs on the trigger bar that needed to be replaced. I overnighted the gun to them, only to have it refused twice and then returned to me. I'm out the overnight shipping costs and the insurance totaling about $122.00
Several voicemails and emails have been left unanswered, which as a self-employed business owner baffles and infuriates me. I have a Covet, a Stealth, and a two tone that all work fine, but I'm in desperate need of recoil springs, which another forum member was kind enough to take care of for me as he had one to spare.
I'm going to stick with only black Pups as they are meaner looking and are less visible if I bend over or have a looser fitting pair of pants with a larger front pocket opening.
I will also add that I have found the Federal Premium 124gr HST to be flawless in ALL four of my R9s. Out of short barrel guns, they also tested better ballistically than the 124gr standard pressure Speer Gold Dots per a very thorough and informative YouTube ammo test conducted using a different short barrel semi auto 9mm.
I think the least the company could have done was to set an email auto responder stating that for the time being, nothing would be happening sales or service-wise with Rohrbaugh. Or, put up a banner on their website stating the same. Seems like basic common sense and courtesy, and should not negatively affect the sale or moving of the company.....just my two cents.
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Nope. I currently have 4 Pups in my dog pound. My faulty one is a new Stealth with a trigger that only pulls the hammer all the way back about once in every three attempts. Maria thought it was burrs on the trigger bar that needed to be replaced. I overnighted the gun to them, only to have it refused twice and then returned to me. I'm out the overnight shipping costs and the insurance totaling about $122.00
Several voicemails and emails have been left unanswered, which as a self-employed business owner baffles and infuriates me. I have a Covet, a Stealth, and a two tone that all work fine, but I'm in desperate need of recoil springs, which another forum member was kind enough to take care of for me as he had one to spare.
I'm going to stick with only black Pups as they are meaner looking and are less visible if I bend over or have a looser fitting pair of pants with a larger front pocket opening.
I will also add that I have found the Federal Premium 124gr HST to be flawless in ALL four of my R9s. Out of short barrel guns, they also tested better ballistically than the 124gr standard pressure Speer Gold Dots per a very thorough and informative YouTube ammo test conducted using a different short barrel semi auto 9mm.
I think the least the company could have done was to set an email auto responder stating that for the time being, nothing would be happening sales or service-wise with Rohrbaugh. Or, put up a banner on their website stating the same. Seems like basic common sense and courtesy, and should not negatively affect the sale or moving of the company.....just my two cents.
Thank Robert - I will encourage my friend to continue bidding! Regards, Will
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I think the least the company could have done was to set an email auto responder stating that for the time being, nothing would be happening sales or service-wise with Rohrbaugh. Or, put up a banner on their website stating the same. Seems like basic common sense and courtesy, and should not negatively affect the sale or moving of the company.....just my two cents.
So long as we understand "the company" means the new ownership of Rohrbaugh Firearms -- I agree they should have done something by now.
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Nope. I currently have 4 Pups in my dog pound. My faulty one is a new Stealth with a trigger that only pulls the hammer all the way back about once in every three attempts. Maria thought it was burrs on the trigger bar that needed to be replaced. I overnighted the gun to them, only to have it refused twice and then returned to me. I'm out the overnight shipping costs and the insurance totaling about $122.00
Several voicemails and emails have been left unanswered, which as a self-employed business owner baffles and infuriates me. I have a Covet, a Stealth, and a two tone that all work fine, but I'm in desperate need of recoil springs, which another forum member was kind enough to take care of for me as he had one to spare.
I'm going to stick with only black Pups as they are meaner looking and are less visible if I bend over or have a looser fitting pair of pants with a larger front pocket opening.
I will also add that I have found the Federal Premium 124gr HST to be flawless in ALL four of my R9s. Out of short barrel guns, they also tested better ballistically than the 124gr standard pressure Speer Gold Dots per a very thorough and informative YouTube ammo test conducted using a different short barrel semi auto 9mm.
I think the least the company could have done was to set an email auto responder stating that for the time being, nothing would be happening sales or service-wise with Rohrbaugh. Or, put up a banner on their website stating the same. Seems like basic common sense and courtesy, and should not negatively affect the sale or moving of the company.....just my two cents.
I'm in pretty much the exact same situation. Though I don't have any other Rohrbaugh Products. I also just ordered some HST 124gr last night with hopes that will solve the problem. It looks like a better round than Gold Dot in 124gr.
The facts of the current situation speak louder than anything else. We are approaching 30 days of "not operational" status at the company. It appears they are stonewalling everyone but DDGator and have left their customer base of 7,000 hanging out to dry(no springs, service, parts or anything).
Maybe there is some type of sale being worked out. Who knows at this point. It's likely only a design sale and could follow as other small boutique brands like AMT. Someone will pick up the pieces they want and pump out a few for a while. Clearly nobody is making Rohrbaugh Firearms enough of a priority to even answer the phone for a month. If only the design is purchased at a liquidation sale is the new company liable for warranty claims on the existing pistols?
That's just my opinion and I don't have any formal information to support any other opinions of the situation. I've received no formal contact or responses regarding my defective pistol and warranty claim. For whatever the reason the company has essentially vanished.
I'm not trying to attack anyone or insult loyal followers of the company. I'm just trying to be realistic and not seeing this through rose colored glasses.
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That's just my opinion and I don't have any formal information to support any other opinions of the situation.
Yep.
Actually, you have at least some information, you just don't seem to believe it. The Rohrbaughs were permitted to say the company has been sold. The company, not the designs for the pistol. The company has been sold, and the factory is being reloacted to Pineville, NC.
Again, I am not sure who the "they" you mention is supposed to refer to at this point. Perhaps you are referring to the new owners of Rohrbaugh Firearms, whoever that may be. If so, fine. I will just say one more time that the Rohrbaugh brothers cannot currently comment on any details of the sale beyond what has already been said. They are honoring a serious contractual obligation, not "stonewalling."
Furthermore, let me be clear that I do not have any non-public information. I have relayed the public information, and I have applied some life and business experience to make some educated guesses about what a purchaser who is "an existing firearms manufacturer" would likely do.
I understand you say you are not trying to attack anyone, but your comments continually imply that the Rohrbuagh brothers are letting you down, and that the public information I have relayed about the sale is false. I don't expect you to be happy about this situation, but I will not allow those types of comments to go answered. If you want to talk about how irresponsible you think the un-named purchaser is -- have at it. I have no knowledge of who that is or why they are non-responsive.
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Everyone is thinking it, why not say it. The Company or, whats left of the Company, is probably in the hands of the Bank or Creditor or Creditors and they want no part of the ownership.
They then deal with potential buyers who try to get the most for the least amount of money, while taking on the least amount of liability. It's Lawyers and Accountants talking, and it is not a fast process. Who know when or if everything works out with potential buyers. It would be completely out of the Rohrbaugh's hands and that certainly appears to be what is transpiring.
From comments made by other firearm designers about the R9, if a large company would take over the design would probably under go major design changes for liability reasons.
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That's just my opinion and I don't have any formal information to support any other opinions of the situation.
Yep.
Actually, you have at least some information, you just don't seem to believe it. The Rohrbaughs were permitted to say the company has been sold. The company, not the designs for the pistol. The company has been sold, and the factory is being reloacted to Pineville, NC.
Again, I am not sure who the "they" you mention is supposed to refer to at this point. Perhaps you are referring to the new owners of Rohrbaugh Firearms, whoever that may be. If so, fine. I will just say one more time that the Rohrbaugh brothers cannot currently comment on any details of the sale beyond what has already been said. They are honoring a serious contractual obligation, not "stonewalling."
Furthermore, let me be clear that I do not have any non-public information. I have relayed the public information, and I have applied some life and business experience to make some educated guesses about what a purchaser who is "an existing firearms manufacturer" would likely do.
I understand you say you are not trying to attack anyone, but your comments continually imply that the Rohrbuagh brothers are letting you down, and that the public information I have relayed about the sale is false. I don't expect you to be happy about this situation, but I will not allow those types of comments to go answered. If you want to talk about how irresponsible you think the un-named purchaser is -- have at it. I have no knowledge of who that is or why they are non-responsive.
Are you certain the controlling parties "Rohrbaugh brothers" have signed a legally binding contract and have already SOLD Rohrbaugh Firearms to Company X? What is the source for your public information?
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MRC,
The sale was from existing ownership to an existing firearms manufacturer -- no bank or creditors involved. It was a voluntary sale, not a forced sale. However, your point that any deal like this involves a lot of lawyers and manuevering, and is not a fast process, is still true.
Bobsmith,
My information comes direct from Eric Rohrbaugh, pursuant to a limited statement of information he was permitted to release publicly. The sale is a signed and done deal, and part of the deal is that Karl and Eric are very limited in what they can say about the transaction. They don't have any control over the details or schedule of the transition at this point.
As said previously, the factory is being relocated. The relocation is in progress. At some point, business will resume in Pineville, NC, and parts and warranty service will be available. I should know as soon as things are up and running and I will certainly let the forum know.
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MRC,
The sale was from existing ownership to an existing firearms manufacturer -- no bank or creditors involved. It was a voluntary sale, not a forced sale. However, your point that any deal like this involves a lot of lawyers and manuevering, and is not a fast process, is still true.
Bobsmith,
My information comes direct from Eric Rohrbaugh, pursuant to a limited statement of information he was permitted to release publicly. The sale is a signed and done deal, and part of the deal is that Karl and Eric are very limited in what they can say about the transaction. They don't have any control over the details or schedule of the transition at this point.
As said previously, the factory is being relocated. The relocation is in progress. At some point, business will resume in Pineville, NC, and parts and warranty service will be available. I should know as soon as things are up and running and I will certainly let the forum know.
That's good news and I hope it all plays out in time. I'm amazed ( yet NOT questioning your integrity) that they didn't send out this "Public Information" to customers in some form. It seems like business 101 to issue a press release of some sort so that your customers are not just sitting here in the dark.
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That's good news and I hope it all plays out in time. I'm amazed ( yet NOT questioning your integrity) that they didn't send out this "Public Information" to customers in some form. It seems like business 101 to issue a press release of some sort so that your customers are not just sitting here in the dark.
Karl and Eric didn't have the option to send out a press release. They were given information to respond to inquiries for a limited time while the phones were still being answered in New York. I made an inquiry and received the information. Luckily, I have a means to share that info.
I am confident that this will all be resolved in time -- there is just no way to know exactly when at this point. Hopefully the purchaser will make this a priority and we can get past this transition stage.
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Hopefully the purchaser will make this a priority and we can get past this transition stage.
Yes, I am looking forward to the forum being back to normal, like the old days...
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New ownership will likely give us all kinds of things to talk about. ;)
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New ownership will likely give us all kinds of things to talk about. ;)
You should be the one buying the company. ;)
A guy can barely find an R9 statement made on the internet without a DDgator response.
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From comments made by other firearm designers about the R9, if a large company would take over the design would probably under go major design changes for liability reasons.
Wow--this is news to me! Can you share their comments?
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Hello All,
I've sat quiet and still do not add to this discussion because it seems that there is no new information at this point in time. DDGator has provided more information that available from any other source at this point so I wanted to say "Thank you" for sharing what you know and when you learn more I'm sure you will share it here with us.
I came to this forum prior to owning a Tribute and viewed comments from some of the long term contributors which calmed my fears
of buying such an expensive gun without ever seeing one in person. My Tribute is a great little gun that eats everything so I've very pleased and when I've had questions the members have been helpful and supportive. I have found invaluable advise on this forum and I hope this forum returns to the way it was when I first had the pleasure of "meeting" the fine people here.
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From comments made by other firearm designers about the R9, if a large company would take over the design would probably under go major design changes for liability reasons.
Wow--this is news to me! Can you share their comments?
I suspect this refers to the classless (and factually incorrect) remarks made around the internet by the designer of another eponymous new small 9mm pistol.
I may be mistaken, but I doubt it.
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Thank you Duane for your updates. They are appreciated.
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+1!
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I have a wife in the CCU unit of a hospital, where she has been for the past several days and will be for several more, or I would be in the mix of all this trying to support you in responding to some of these ridiculous posts about the sale. I've rarely seen as much self-indulgent, uninformed, navel gazing, lint plucking, pontification, and general BP&M as that with which you have been having to deal lately.
A few of these people simply need to get off their keyboards and find something meaningful to do with their time.
Keep up the good work my friend -- and as we used to say in the Army, ". . . all but nine . . . ."
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A guy can barely find an R9 statement made on the internet without a DDgator response.
Or Yours!!!!!!
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What are you talking about? I just became an owner a few months ago.
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I have a wife in the CCU unit of a hospital, where she has been for the past several days and will be for several more, or I would be in the mix of all this trying to support you in responding to some of these ridiculous posts about the sale. I've rarely seen as much self-indulgent, uninformed, navel gazing, lint plucking, pontification, and general BP&M as that with which you have been having to deal lately.
A few of these people simply need to get off their keyboards and find something meaningful to do with their time.
Keep up the good work my friend -- and as we used to say in the Army, ". . . all but nine . . . ."
Thank you SOOOO much for putting into better words than I can EXACTLY what has been on my mind, Richard.
Not that they want it, but I feel great sympathy and compassion for the Rohrbaugh Family. Most will never know what it's like to be "ALL IN" every minute of every day in the world of self employment and entrepreneurial endeavor. Responsible for EVERYTHING....your fault...my fault ...nobody's fault....the planets' fault...makes no difference. Many say it's necessary to be money hungry or stupid to permit yourself to be put in that position. That's wrong....It's PASSION and love of the "ART" that drives those people. If they wanted just financial reward, there's much easier ways than having your name on a high quality product.
Back off...give things a chance to work out over time...3-9 months. Have faith in these guys...they've earned it over the years, even if some weren't here to witness all the built up goodwill...it's still there. If you can't be mature enough to see the other side...maybe you overreached in the first place. Sorry for your timing. Next.....
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Well this is the "Water Cooler" section of the forum. If you don't want to jaw a little around the water cooler there are other threads up a few inches. I didn't know it was so absurd of a concept to question information found on an internet forum and I've never played the part of a sycophant very well.
Hedrok: I've been self employed for 15 years and know better than you might guess at what it's like to keep things going. Sorry you had such a hard time with it.
Richard: I'm sorry to hear about your wife I hope you get her home soon. Thank you for your service ( In Vietnam I'm assuming) and welcome home soldier. I'm going to ignore your other comments out of respect for an elder veteran.
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Since you've been self-employed for 15 years, Bobsmith...then you know exactly what I meant by what I said. How about the next hurricane drops in to pay you a visit and we'll see how fast you get your act back together and functioning again. Or maybe you're just a computer, Droid and a desk and can set up shop anywhere. It takes a bit more for a precision manufacturing plant.
I neither need nor want your sympathy...for ANY of my self employment history over the last 40 + years...success or failures.
All of the above is not what this discussion is about. The conversation is really about holding off with the bitching and moaning until the Brothers R can get the terms of their contract fulfilled...whatever they may be...and the service dept. back open again.
Have a little trust. Your issues will be taken care of in due time. They've handled EVERY issue before and there's nothing to say that will change going forward.
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All of the above is not what this discussion is about. The conversation is really about holding off with the bitching and moaning until the Brothers R can get the terms of their contract fulfilled...whatever they may be...and the service dept. back open again.
Have a little trust. Your issues will be taken care of in due time. They've handled EVERY issue before and there's nothing to say that will change going forward.
Got it.. I'll sit tight for 6 to 9 months while the guys who didn't get R9 lemons tell me to quit bitching and moaning about my $1200 lemon. Seems like most of the bitching today is directed at anyone who dares question what's going on. It's not like I'm calling the R brothers or any members here self-indulgent, uninformed, navel gazing, lint pluckers for what they did to everyone.
Sorry I didn't drink the cool-aid.
Next...................
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It's all Bush's fault.
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Seems like most of the bitching today is directed at anyone who dares question what's going on.
Sorry, it's not the questions -- it's your attitude. And your refusal to accept reasonable answers to your questions.
You come in here and insult people many of us really respect. You say things like "drinking the cool aid" and how you hate your pistol and wasted your money. You repeatedly question the things I have told you without even a hint of being polite about it.
You are in an enthusiasts forum. We have tried to help you. There is not much you can do at this point but wait and see what happens. If you want a bunch of people to commiserate with your problems, try Glocktalk. I think your constant complaining is starting to wear thin around here. You may have very right to be angry, but that doesn't mean the people here want to be subjected to it.
I'm sorry to be so blunt -- but I'm not sure what else to say or do at this point.
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Years ago, there were some issues with fail to feed...fail to extract...stove pipes and ya know...in almost every instance it was because the person yankin' on the trigger was in such a big hurry to fire the gun again that they didn't follow through properly. They were "limp" in multiple ways...mostly the cryin' about how the gun was at fault.
I bought a few of those guns at substantial discounts. Ya know what was wrong...nothing. The previous owner did not have the intestinal fortitude to stay on target until the shot was finished.
I know there have been valid issues...but I would imagine there was a REAL problem with only about 1 in 8 to 10 that were sent back.
As you also might know from self employment, Bob...when things go wrong, first look to thyself for the reason why.
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Hey.. No hard feelings guys. I guess it's just not meant to be.
I'll post it for sale with the disclaimer that someone with bigger testicles should be able to get lots of use out of it. I've been dealing with this since I purchased it a few months ago and I'm not patient enough to wait the estimated 6-9 months for them to get up and running. I didn't know it required such a specific grip and ammo in order to function properly. I guess I should have researched the product more before I made the purchase.
I take responsibility for this fact and will learn from it.
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I'm not sure who estimated 6 to 9 months... no official source. However, at this point it could be that long -- no way to tell for sure. With all this water under the bridge, selling the gun seems like a good idea. If it were me, I would put it in the gun safe for a while, send it back for warranty service when available, then sell it with a clear conscience and move on and never look back.
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I'm not sure who estimated 6 to 9 months... no official source. However, at this point it could be that long -- no way to tell for sure. With all this water under the bridge, selling the gun seems like a good idea. If it were me, I would put it in the gun safe for a while, send it back for warranty service when available, then sell it with a clear conscience and move on and never look back.
I thought I read that in a post you put up. I'm not sure though, but didn't you say something like "hope to be cutting metal in ..."
I was looking for something I could carry now, not a year after I purchased it. I guess you can tell I've got a bad taste in my mouth by now and apologize for ranting on the forum. It's just been the most frustrating consumer experiences I've ever had and it was going on for a few months before I got here.
I get that nobody wants to hear about it though. It's my problem, I'll figure out how to deal with it.
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Well, "cutting metal" refers to the production of frames and slides. That was an educated guess, of course. However, warranty service would presumably be up long before that, depending upon what type of work is required.
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Well, "cutting metal" refers to the production of frames and slides. That was an educated guess, of course. However, warranty service would presumably be up long before that, depending upon what type of work is required.
Ok.. I'll post an acceptable ad disclosing the experiences I've had and check back in a few weeks. Send me a PM if you hear anything.
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I love, love, love my R9s. Had 4 of them, now have 3. I carry one in my front pocket on a daily basis and cannot imagine carrying any other pistol. I do enjoy going to the range with ALL of them, and I wear a baseball batting glove to save the wear and tear and my hand, but unfortunately it cannot save the wear on my recoil springs. I recently decided the smart thing to do was to use the spring with the least number of rounds through it in my Stealth that I carry. BUT....with a finite number of rounds available with the spring, what am I (and all of you) to do about getting replacements? Wolff doesn't make them and I've scoured the internet with no luck trying to find options for getting a new spring.
Does anyone know what it would take time-wise AND cost-wise to have a lot of 500 or 1,000 made for a large group buy from a new manufacturer? I'd imagine the prices per piece wouldn't get us to the $4.95 figure offered through Rohrbaugh, but it is what it is, and I'd pay a premium for a spring if it keeps me going until whenever the new company ramps up production again.
Anybody have any ideas or thoughts regarding us being able to replace our recoil springs?
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I would say it is way too early to panic. I would stop shooting the gun for now and wait for parts supply to come back on line under the new owner.
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Hello everyone. This is my first post on this forum although I've owned my R9 for about 5 years. I just wanted to share with you my recent experience with dealing with Rohrbaugh Firearms. About a month ago I mailed some defective magazines back to them as suggested by Maria. I waited and did not hear from them so like many of you I left a voicemail on their phone and anxiously waited for a reply. Apparently what had happened was that they mailed the magazines back to my old address in their record book and it was returned to them weeks later.
To make a long story short, last week Monday I received a personal call from Eric Rohrbaugh who explained to me what had happened with my mags. What a gentleman he was! He also briefly explained to me about how they are busy moving and that exciting things are ahead for them and the company. He expressed sorrow about not being able to disclose the details of this transaction with the customers, and was upset about angering some of you. He was genuinely concerned and told me that it was "killing him" because under the contract agreement with the new company that bought them out he could not go into details.
I told him that I understood and that I was honored to speak with him personally and that I am also excited for them and the company. I told him how impressed I was with the little jewel that they designed. He thanked me for understanding and a couple days later I received my replacement magazines, free of charge as promised.
Just want to add to what the moderator has been saying all along and share with you all my recent experience. I can't wait to see what's ahead for Rohrbaugh!
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Thank you for your post Hawaiianhuman. Your experience mirrors mine when I needed Eric's help. I do think we can remain optimistic that our pistols will be supported and production, if anything, improved.
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Hawaiian, Wonderful first post and welcome to the forum. Bob,
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Thanks for the warm welcomes! Aloha.
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I have gotten a number of PM's about company status updates. I really don't have anything to report. I am in regular contact with Karl and Eric. I can only say that progress is being made, and I hope to be able to pass along new information soon.
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New information -- started a new thread.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=7344.0 (http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=7344.0)
The new owner may be identified...
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Important new info here: http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=7356.0 (http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=7356.0)
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Duane, let me say thank you for keeping everyone as informed as humanly possible. I am sorry you had to endure some of the what I would consider abuse that you had to deal with. I am glad you hung in there, hopefully you will be able to continue on running one of the best handgun websites available with some of the greatest folks around. Since I am a glass half full kind of guy I knew the issues at hand would be resolved and if Eric still has input into production of one of the finest pistols available quality will not suffer and with all the new capital for addition R&D maybe we will see some of our personal wish lists for Rohrbaugh realized. Once again thank you for being there.
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with all the new capital for addition R&D maybe we will see some of our personal wish lists for Rohrbaugh realized.
Yes, I hope so too. Lots of interesting possibilities. It should be an interesting next couple of years.
Thanks for your kind words.