The Rohrbaugh Forum

Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: Chief-USN on November 24, 2009, 10:37:43 AM

Title: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on November 24, 2009, 10:37:43 AM: I am in the market for a full sized .45 . Primary use would be the Range. I am only interested in higher end pistols as I do not like buying the same thing twice. Looking at Kimber though as good value for what you get. Wilson seems a little steep. Do you guys have any other suggestions?

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on November 24, 2009, 12:51:37 PM: Chief:

If you want a high-end 1911 and don't mind a wait, you might consider doing what I did -- take a "Plain Jane" Colt, send it to Clark Custom Guns, and ask for the works. After waiting a few months and writing a rather large check, you will receive something like this:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/colt1991a1withlasermax.jpg)

Good luck with your hunt!
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on November 24, 2009, 03:06:29 PM: Nice looking piece. How is it for accuracy?
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on November 24, 2009, 05:50:45 PM: After a dose of Jim Clark's magic, it's now a real "tack driver."
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on November 29, 2009, 02:41:28 PM: Quote
I am in the market for a full sized .45 . Primary use would be the Range. I am only interested in higher end pistols as I do not like buying the same thing twice. Looking at Kimber though as good value for what you get. Wilson seems a little steep. Do you guys have any other suggestions?

Chief

Chief. I like Ed Brown Customs, although, I'm partial, of course.

http://edbrown.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F3aH-m-znE
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on November 30, 2009, 02:57:42 PM: If money is no object then try Pistol Dynamics...they make some amazing stuff. (Paul Liebenburg is the owner) I am going to be talking to him this week on getting on his build list. Speaking of this week...anyone here going to be at the SWAT Roundup in Orlando?
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on November 30, 2009, 03:54:55 PM: Excellent looking guns, for sure.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on November 30, 2009, 05:00:25 PM: Yeah, I have been to his shop and the attention to detail is uncanny. All slides and frames are "hand lapped" on the custom stuff and like the R9 finishes, there is no flaws to be found. Shooting wise they are just as good as any other high custom end rigs I've seen if not better.

Amazing work
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on December 02, 2009, 04:44:26 PM: I am trying to stay under $1500 or so if possible. Money is definately an object in my worlde ;)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Aglifter on December 02, 2009, 06:41:58 PM: Hank Fleming in Austin, TX should be able to build a nice gun for about that price -- he does wonderful work -- far superior to Wilsons and Nighthawk, IMO.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on December 03, 2009, 07:43:09 AM: I will check him out thanks for the tip.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: rtw on December 10, 2009, 08:25:15 AM: At the $1500 mark you will need to be very selective about the options you select. Bells and whistles on a 1911 can go several thousand dollars, as you have noted. I'd focus on those aspects that most effect accuracy and avoid the others.

Using a very competent pistolsmith who isn't well known will help keep your labor costs down. Make sure the smith can build an accurate gun and not just a pretty one. Sometimes accuracy enhancements can reduce the field reliability of a 1911. Make sure you understand the issues and tradeoffs before authorizing any smith to go ahead.

Take some time to check out the sights people have at the the ranges you visit. There are tons of choices, especially if you go with fixed sights. Using a smith who also does a lot of the same type of shooting you want to do may help.

Find out what base gun the smith works on. A bad base gun may not take you to the level of accuracy you desire. Be sure you know the degree of accuracy possible with your base gun.

Good luck!!
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45H
Post by: ccw on December 15, 2009, 01:22:31 AM: Chief,
Check out the Sig P220 for a full size, very reliable .45. Here is
additional information (http://www.remtek.com/arms/sig/model/220/220.htm). Plus, it's comfortable to shoot, not fussy about ammo, and used, holds it's value. Plus, there is no need to customize it.

I just guns america, and they also make a .22 conversion, so the same gun can shoot both calibers!!
P220 in .22 (http://www.gunsamerica.com/973175547/Guns/Pistols/Sig-Sauer-Sigarms-Pistols/Sig_Sauer_Model_P_220_with_22LR_slide_and_barrel.htm)
conversion kit alone (http://www.gunsamerica.com/968771454/Guns/Pistols/Sig-Sauer-Sigarms-Pistols/Conversion-Kits/Sig_Sauer_22LR_Conversion_Kit_P220R.htm)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 04, 2010, 04:46:35 PM: One of the things I am looking for on the .45 is a rail for mounting a light, don't think the 220 has one.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 06, 2010, 12:18:50 PM: Chief. According to this, you can get the P220 with a tac rail.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/S-220R45-TAS-SA.html
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 07, 2010, 07:56:17 AM: I just checked out the Sig 220 Elite Stainless at a Local Gunshop. Very nice Piece. The top 2 on my list are now the Kimber Warrior and the Sig 220 Elite Stainless.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 07, 2010, 11:03:01 AM: Looks like you're getting closer to a decision. Good luck!
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 07, 2010, 01:08:17 PM: I really want an r45 :) but both of these manufacturers have the reputation of very good good reliabilty and accuracy. The Sig 220 Stainless Elite is a very nice looking Piece. The Warrior looks like All Business. I already have a Sig and was trying to find a Non Sig for variety, but, it really is a nice gun.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 07, 2010, 01:47:15 PM: The R45 will be sometime in coming. The Warrior does look good.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on January 07, 2010, 08:38:49 PM: Chief:

That Kimber Warrior is one fine 1911-type handgun. It also comes with a light rail which I recall your having said you wanted.

I've just come in from an afternoon of driving and walking through some pretty serious back country. I was carrying that Clark Custom Colt pictured near the top of this thread OWB, with my R9 (of course) riding backup in my front pocket. The point of relating this bit of trivia is that the combination of a full size .45 and the R9 was . . . how shall I say this . . . very comforting to have along.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Reinz on January 08, 2010, 12:33:38 AM: If you currently do not own any 1911 45, I'd go 1911 first.
It's the best fighting pistol design period!
Just look at the numbers.

Then later you can dink around with a Sig 220. But take from a man who owns both ( 2, 220's and 20+ 1911's) - that Sig ain't what it's cracked up to be.

But then, hey they're guns! How can you go wrong!

Good Luck

Reinz
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 08, 2010, 07:57:42 AM: Good to know about the Sig, Hard to find someone with Both to talk to objectively. I have had a few Gold cups and even a 10mm Colt 1911 type . But have sold them off or traded over the years. I used to shoot .45's for the Navy on one of their shooting teams but that was 35 years ago. I guess because of all the rounds fired through the .45's over the years my curiosity kept aiming me at othe types of guns.
(Kind of a "Grass is always greener" type of thing I guess.) But Technolgy being what it is, and the climate being what it is, it is time to go back to an old friend. Little history on the Warrior, it was developed for Sofcom. (The Marines Specwarfare side)
Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 08, 2010, 04:13:28 PM: My vote would be for the 1911, too. The Kimber Warrior looks outstanding.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 08, 2010, 08:05:11 PM: I would have to tend to agree with Reinz...

Nothing beats a 1911 based pistol of medium to excellent quality.

I just bought a Glock 36 as a "tool" to leave in my truck. If someone breaks into the vehicle and find it, atleast its not one of my higher end 45s

I like Sigs but they have one feature I don't like, the "boreline" is too high. If there was ever a 45 that I would carry exclusively it would be a P9s 45 combat type. Its boreline is real low and ...well... its friggin accurate as hell....its also "anti-snag" proof already as everything is rounded and a concealed hammer....oh , then there is the cool factor of it. I have two of these things in minty status and I am actually looking for a semi-beatup one to carry.

just my two cents....
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 08, 2010, 08:26:12 PM: I fully agree with the Glock 36. Although I love 1911s the 36 is a very sweet shooting and accurate pistol; it always works. If you just can't stand Glocks that is another issue.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 08, 2010, 08:51:14 PM: Yep...I might even be one of those Glunk haters but a tool is a tool and there is definitely no nostalgia in a gun fight. I don't think the "recipient" is going to care about what "kind" of gun shot him and the shooter need only be concerned with what he can shoot well, what he is afraid of not losing coupled with the "robustness" of the weapon to survive abuse and neglect possibly...hence the reason the Glunk is in the trunk..actually the truck ::)

BBQ guns are a totally different ballgame...bring on the R9s, the P7s, hi powers, Custom 45s and all those other guns you would otherwise might not carry.

Speaking of BBQs...I heard there was one this weekend at DDs place and he kept iterating free beer and all the steak you can eat. Something about celebrity status quo! ;D
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 08, 2010, 09:21:55 PM: I love the Glock and for the reason's Tracker articulated, though, if the Chief wants to spend $1500 or a little less, as he stated, I'm going to have to go with the 1911.

And I'm on my way to DD's BBQ. Hope I'm not late. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Reinz on January 10, 2010, 07:20:34 PM: Quote
Good to know about the Sig, Hard to find someone with Both to talk to objectively. I have had a few Gold cups and even a 10mm Colt 1911 type . But have sold them off or traded over the years. I used to shoot .45's for the Navy on one of their shooting teams but that was 35 years ago. I guess because of all the rounds fired through the .45's over the years my curiosity kept aiming me at othe types of guns.
(Kind of a "Grass is always greener" type of thing I guess.) But Technolgy being what it is, and the climate being what it is, it is time to go back to an old friend. Little history on the Warrior, it was developed for Sofcom. (The Marines Specwarfare side)
Chief

Cheif - Now I really know where you are coming from.

I have a Gold Cup; which I have not shot since I got my first Wilson 24 years ago. No comparison.

Now I have over a dozen Kimbers. I think those offer the most features/value for the money. To me, they do not shoot quite as "nuts on" as my Wilsons or Les Baer, but much better than my Gold Cup.
And I do shoot and carry the Kimbers,

Yeah, I have heard a few bad stories about some bad Kimbers getting out there. But like any big gun company that puts out the numbers like they do, a few bad ones will get out of the barn.

Trust me, that Warrior will shoot the pants off those Gold Cups you had and more so those military models.

Good Luck

Reinz
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 10, 2010, 07:51:18 PM: Reinz. You must have a safe just for your 1911's. Good for you. I do like the 1911.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 11, 2010, 08:05:12 AM: The only Kimbers I have heard had issues were the 3" models. Seems the issues all went away at 4" and above.

Back when I was shooting on the team, there were not that many options ,as far as good guns went out there, so The Colt Gold Cup was where we started and then it was modified. But today's production Kimber probably outshoots our Target Pistols from 35 Years ago. At the age I am now, it is getting so all the guns outshoot me, so I am more into the Options such as Fiber optics, Light Rails, reliability, etc. Things that help offset the things I cannot help like eyes that don't focus like they used to. (and being an Engineer the mechanics of the weapon are important)

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on January 11, 2010, 12:47:56 PM: the 1911 is in my opinion the finest fighting pistol ever made. And many real gun experts agree. ;) :D Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Reinz on January 12, 2010, 06:40:30 AM: Quote
Reinz. You must have a safe just for your 1911's. Good for you. I do like the 1911.

They do take up half of the "pistol" part of the safes.

Reinz
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Reinz on January 12, 2010, 06:49:03 AM: Quote
The only Kimbers I have heard had issues were the 3" models. Seems the issues all went away at 4" and above.

Back when I was shooting on the team, there were not that many options ,as far as good guns went out there, so The Colt Gold Cup was where we started and then it was modified. But today's production Kimber probably outshoots our Target Pistols from 35 Years ago. At the age I am now, it is getting so all the guns outshoot me, so I am more into the Options such as Fiber optics, Light Rails, reliability, etc. Things that help offset the things I cannot help like eyes that don't focus like they used to. (and being an Engineer the mechanics of the weapon are important)

Chief

Cheif - I understand totally!

I'm at the age as well where my guns out shoot me!
My eyes are showing their age, as well as my hands.

However, I guess I am fortunate in that none of my 3" Kimbers ( I believe 3) have given me any trouble.

In fact, I can shoot the shorter barrels better than longer ones now. Sounds weird, I never understood it until Massad Ayoob validated it in an article recently about older eyes doing better with a shorter sight radius.
I would have thought the opposite.

Reinz
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 13, 2010, 09:52:39 AM: Well, after doing a ton of research I have reached the opinion that One .45 is not going to be enough. I am now looking for a "Small" and fullsized. (I wish the R45 was here)

Short list for "Small" carry 45's are

Ed Brown "Executive Carry"
Wilson Combat "Bill Wilson Carry"
Nighthawk Custom "T-3"

Anybody have any others similar to these I need to add to my research?

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Drifter8002 on January 13, 2010, 01:11:19 PM: Chief, I had previously owned a Bill Wilson Carry and it was a fine 1911. The only reason I parted with it is I also own a Wilson Sentinel in 9mm and size wise they are the same. I like Sentinel enough that I will not part with it . If you have big hands you may not like the shorter grip however I find for carry purposes it is not a detraction and less printing under a shirt. They are quite accurate also.

Dollar for dollar a Wilson is hard to beat.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 13, 2010, 01:26:41 PM: I saw the Wilsons and Ed Browns hold their value extremely well also. Although I probably would not be selling whatever I get. It would become something for my kids to fight over.
I do not think I have ever heard someone that owned one of these guns saying they were not worth the money. Mostly they say "well worth it" and "you get what you payed for".

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 13, 2010, 01:30:15 PM: Ed Brown just came out with a Massaad Ayoob Signature Carry gun. I called and talked to them about it and they told me it is mostly just an Executive carry with his signature and a stiffer trigger assy. (5-6 lbs vers. about 4)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Reinz on January 13, 2010, 02:14:53 PM: Quote
Well, after doing a ton of research I have reached the opinion that One .45 is not going to be enough. I am now looking for a "Small" and fullsized. (I wish the R45 was here)

Short list for "Small" carry 45's are

Ed Brown "Executive Carry"
Wilson Combat "Bill Wilson Carry"
Nighthawk Custom "T-3"

Anybody have any others similar to these I need to add to my research?

Chief

You said "short" list. And that is an impressive one. I would hate to be the one to have to decide.

Good Luck

Reinz
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 13, 2010, 02:26:20 PM: It may come down to who has the best deal on a given piece. I have several feelers out now. Found an Ed Brown Executive Carry and a T3 so far. I am hoping the Bad Economy helps me out.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Drifter8002 on January 13, 2010, 02:40:56 PM: You may not want to rule out the Wilson Professional series for your small or short version. They are a full size grip with a shorter bull barrel. Very accurate and quite obtainable as most Wilson dealers stock them.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 13, 2010, 02:46:34 PM: It did not occur to me but The companys may also give Military Discounts. Usually because of my years in they let me have it as a thank you.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 13, 2010, 05:00:28 PM: Just checked, things are looking up, all three companies give Military Discounts. Good deal. Would still love to find someone selling one that needs to sell it fast and cheap! Ahhh the perfect deal, although that comcination may tend to mean bad things when it comes to a gun owner wanting to get rid of a gun ;D

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 13, 2010, 09:45:45 PM: Just found this string. Ah; .45ACP, my favorite round.

There is a lot of ground to cover but here goes:

1. 1911 - gold standard but not a good choice for personal defense as lawyers interpret "cock and lock" as intent when used for self defense.
2. Sig - I love the double action P220, in any configuration, and modest cost is a consideration.
3. Glock 36 - one of my personal favorites. Accurate, ugly and you never have to worry about customizing decisions (like 1911)
4. USFA 1911 - Magnificent piece but not cheap and more condusive to saving it as a "safe queen" than a daily carry
5. R45 - Doesn't exist and factory's failure to bring this to the market, (in a timely manner), despite huge market interest, is extremely disappointing in my view
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 14, 2010, 08:05:04 AM: The lack of R45 is one of the reasons I am looking at these higher quality pieces. They will go where I was planning on putting the R45. If I knew the R45 was coming at least within a year or so I would "settle" for a "lesser" gun until it showed. (you are right though, Glocks are ugly, and customization decisions are very limited ;D)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Drifter8002 on January 14, 2010, 08:33:16 AM: The Glock's may be considered ugly by traditional standards but they are an effective tool for those who can appreciate their worth. I found the G36 to be less appealing (to me) than the G30SF. I carry the 30SF often and feel confident it will be there to do it's part should it be required and never a thought about it becoming a safe queen like so many other "pretty" guns.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 14, 2010, 08:41:34 AM: I have owned Glocks in the past and the one thing they do is work. I never concidered it would not fire. The main reason our military do not get them instead of Berrettas is that they were not Double Action.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 14, 2010, 09:35:50 AM: I have owned Glock 36 and 30 and love the model 36. I am a thin guy and I don't get near the accuracy with a double stack gun as I do with a single stack.

If I am not mistaken, Glocks are considered double action guns. For some reason, Glock's "safety action" is considered double action although I find this difficult to believe. I am only relating what I read somewhere.

I believe the absence of a safety (Beretta) or decocker (Sig) is why our military avoided them. Could be wrong; feel free to educate me.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 14, 2010, 10:36:47 AM: I do like the Glock 33. Although, it is double stack gun, the .357 sig serves my purpose well.

It's amazing, to me, how it devours the Remington UMC without a glitch of any kind. At the time, the UMC, was all my FFL had, and said, not to worry; the Glock will handle it. It did, flawlessly.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 14, 2010, 11:53:32 AM: ACP, You are correct also in the things you mentioned, Lack of External safety was another big stumbling block. We were issued Sigs in NavSpecWarfare side in many of our units, but Glocks were not an option as far as the Navy was concerned.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Newt on January 14, 2010, 01:23:24 PM: I'm late to this party but if I were you I'd look hard at the H&K 45C which seems to have every thing that you are looking for. I have one and it is acurate and reliable, very well built and just the right size. I'm supprised someone has'nt mentioned it yet. :o
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 14, 2010, 01:28:48 PM: Chief,

Thank you for educating me. Sig Yes. Beretta No.

Can't stand Berettas; never liked open slide guns. And, the military loss of the immortal 1911 is something I still mourn.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 14, 2010, 01:34:16 PM: kjtrains:

I backed off Glock Model 33 because it is double stack. Love the .357Sig cartridge. If Glock offered a single stack compact .357, I would be there.

Glocks digest all ammo. They are magnificently engineered. Ugly? Yeah; until you own one and shoot it.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 14, 2010, 02:10:11 PM: YEP! Changed my whole perpective of a Glock. Now, I am a advocate, for sure.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 14, 2010, 07:50:34 PM: I picked up two Glock 36Cs and fired one and was going to sell one to my step brat but now he doesn't want it. I know this is not in the FS area but thought it would be relevent. Unfired in box with two mags and mag extensions. PM if you are interested in it.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 14, 2010, 09:31:19 PM: P7Enigma,

This post belongs in the classifieds section of this forum; dedicated to selling non-Rohrbaugh firearms.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 14, 2010, 10:25:30 PM: Chief,

What was issued in NavSpecWarfare prior to the Sigs?
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 15, 2010, 08:14:06 AM: We also had HK-P11 (Fired Underwater with a Dart attachment), .45's , And even .22LR (Early was a high standard, Later was a Ruger, Sig-228's were the Sigs. That is what got me to buy one for myself. Beautiful Weapons. All Business. One of the nice things on the SpecWarFare side of the Navy at least, is that they tried thier best to get us the right tool for the job.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 15, 2010, 11:07:01 AM: As opposed to the MK 23... ;D
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 15, 2010, 11:09:21 AM: "ACP" - Understood boss....The Glock 36 post above was only relevent to this thread being we were talking about them. I really don't need to sell it but if there was anyone in this "thread" that maybe wanted it....hence the "should be in FS area" remark. 8)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 15, 2010, 11:15:30 AM: The MK23 is a nice piece but I never got to run one. We all loved having the power of the .45 . They came along after I retired. I retired in 1992 they came in 1996. Very nice piece from the looks of it. We all grumbled (ok Bitched) alot when they tried to downsize us from .45 to 9mm. But as I mentioned previously, they always tried to get us the right tool.
Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 15, 2010, 11:39:34 AM: Chief - I have one of these things and it is accurate as hell but, due to its size it is definetly not CQB friendly. Especially with the LAM and Knights can on it.

The smaller HKs mention in previous posts are good, have rails and some have threaded barrels which helps in two ways, one you can add a can later and two, you get just a tad more accuracy out of them due to an extra 1/2 inch of barrel length.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 15, 2010, 02:02:47 PM: When you guys use the term "can" are you referring to a silencer?
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 15, 2010, 02:15:57 PM: YYYYeep! ;)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Reinz on January 15, 2010, 03:25:48 PM: Quote
Just found this string. Ah; .45ACP, my favorite round.

There is a lot of ground to cover but here goes:

1. 1911 - gold standard but not a good choice for personal defense as lawyers interpret "cock and lock" as intent when used for self defense.
2. Sig - I love the double action P220, in any configuration, and modest cost is a consideration.
3. Glock 36 - one of my personal favorites. Accurate, ugly and you never have to worry about customizing decisions (like 1911)
4. USFA 1911 - Magnificent piece but not cheap and more condusive to saving it as a "safe queen" than a daily carry
5. R45 - Doesn't exist and factory's failure to bring this to the market, (in a timely manner), despite huge market interest, is extremely disappointing in my view

Number 1 - very ignorant! But who said lawyers were smart.

That remark can be difussed easily. How is cocked and locked any different than having all rounds chambered in a revolver? Or - One in the chamber in DOA ? At least with the 1911, you have two safeties with a 70 series style and threee with 80's series style.

70 series -- Hammer safety
Grip safety

80 series -- same as above
+ Firing Pin safety

Add one more --- the one between your ears.

Reinz
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 15, 2010, 05:35:55 PM: Two more ways to stop a 1911 from firing (At you)

1. If you push hard against the barrel pushing it back against the shooter he cannot fire

2. (This one stings but is better then getting shot, Quicklymove your hand to the shooter's grip and encircle the back of the reciever with your hand, place the web of skin that is located between your thumb and finger, between the hammer and reciever then take the gun away. You may get pinched when he pulls the trigger but you will not get shot.
(It's all relative ;D)

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 15, 2010, 07:05:37 PM: Whoa! Hope I'm never that close to the shooter. Good to know, though.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 15, 2010, 07:27:29 PM: My thoughts exactly...I knew of these little idiosynchrosies but anything closer than claymore distance is a bad idea.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 15, 2010, 09:32:12 PM: I'm with you there. The Friendly Forces distance of 250 meters is where I would want to be.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on January 16, 2010, 10:07:08 AM: For the past three years or so I've been using a Safety Fast Shooting System from Cylinder & Slide in my principal 1911. It works like a charm. The gunsmith who installed it for me had a rather eloquent term to describe it: "That's slicker than snot!"

I think the design of this system was one reason Bill Laughridge was given a Pistolsmith of the Year Award by the Guild.

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/sfs4.shtml
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/cond5.shtml

[size=10]Edit: Typo.[/size]
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 16, 2010, 11:00:28 AM: Richard. Good idea. Pushing the safety off, which automaticly cocks the hammer is ingenious.

I ran across this article which disspelled my notion of carrying the 1911 cocked and locked. I'm no longer worried about this type of carry, though, there now is a better way. The writer of the article, must not have known about Condition Five, the SFS (Safety Fast Shooting) kit by Bill Laughridge. I like it. Thanks.

http://www.smartcarry.com/mainwebsite_html/cocklock.htm

Chief: In this article is a Custom Gunmaker, Kasey Redder, in Flagstaff, AZ.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on January 16, 2010, 11:13:45 AM: Richard, Bill's SFSS also works real well in the Browning Hi-Power. Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on January 16, 2010, 07:57:42 PM: Tom:

The Browning Hi-Power is one of those handguns which I have always wanted but never acquired. It is a beautiful concept extraordinarily well executed. I was about to spring for one but fell for the HK P7 instead. If I am not mistaken, Bill Laughridge originally designed the SFS System for the Hi-Power and then adapted it for the 1911 types.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 17, 2010, 01:56:34 PM: Richard,

I had a Belgian Hi-Power hard chromed from Virgil about the same time you had your HK done by him. It is a wonderful gun to hold and to shoot.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on January 17, 2010, 07:02:29 PM: Tracker:

Your post has brought back that old familiar feeling of need for things long wanted but never owned -- things such as:

* Customized Browning Hi-Power.
* Harley-Davidson Softail.
* Cessna 150 Aerobat.
* Pair of matched Purdy shotguns.
* Kanter ocean-going sloop-rigged sailboat ('49).

I begin to understand that my greatest enemy is time.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 17, 2010, 07:10:46 PM: That is some high cotton but money could assist on the father time aspect. I also remembered sending Virgil a P7M8 for a hard chrome finish. It was ANIB and I am still wondering why I had it refinished except it was beautifully done; something like fear of rust as I recall.

Some on your wish list pop up on the three Fs of economics.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 17, 2010, 09:48:30 PM: I have to admit that I have succeeded with my ultimate handgun when I purchased my Full House Devel. As to Richards' other unfulfilled drams, they do not pertain to me as I am not a motorcyclist, nor a pilot, et al.

tracker: okay, I'll bite, what is meant by "the three Fs of economics"(?)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 17, 2010, 09:59:36 PM: That feeling of want brings to mind something few folks have ever heard of but you may know of it, the BUGATTI VEYRON.

Talk about economics!
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 17, 2010, 10:11:14 PM: ACP,

The rules of the three Fs of economics is that if it flies, f_ _ _ _ _ ,
or floats it is much cheaper to rent it than to own it; kind of like the two happiest days--buying it and selling it.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on January 17, 2010, 10:25:15 PM: Quote
That feeling of want brings to mind something few folks have ever heard of but you may know of it, the BUGATTI VEYRON.

Talk about economics!

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/Bugatti_Veyron_-_BCN_motorshow_2009.jpg)

Given Tracker's rules, and although I really prefer the "Red Cars," have you got one I could rent? 8)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 17, 2010, 10:30:06 PM: It does fly, but only on the ground, and I might have a red one in stock. I will check. Oh, but not to rent! ;D ;D

Why, yes, there's one in stock!

(http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss197/kjtrains/DSC04230.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 17, 2010, 10:42:07 PM: Check out this genius along the Gulf freeway.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3743010/bugatti_veyron_crashing_into_the_water_crash_splash/
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 17, 2010, 10:44:16 PM: Yep. He had dropped his cell phone and was reaching for it.

Was very calm about it, though. Said, things like this happen.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 17, 2010, 10:54:13 PM: Initially, he said a Crane flew across his windshield and he pulled a "Sullenberger."
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 17, 2010, 10:56:33 PM: Until reality set in. He had to tell the truth.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 17, 2010, 10:58:01 PM: The video was part of the reality check. It is hard to have any fun anymore.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 17, 2010, 11:03:02 PM: I'm surprised he was just crusing at a slow pace.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 17, 2010, 11:06:17 PM: The feeder on the Gulf Freeway in LaPorte is not exactly the Indy 500.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 17, 2010, 11:29:45 PM: True. I'm still surprised at his speed.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 17, 2010, 11:43:36 PM: Maybe your cell phone comment explains it. I have noticed that people stay in place at a stop sign, stay stopped at a green light, or just drive slowly when they are talking on a cell phone at the wheel. 99% of people simply cannot multitask safely and effectively. A headset doesn't solve the problem because the brain is still distracted and divided from the tactile senses.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 18, 2010, 12:05:23 AM: That's exactly right. I see it all the time. And now texting. What's next? I don't really want to go there.

But back to the .45.....
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 18, 2010, 12:15:44 AM: I thought the Chief had his feelers out on a "short list" for the .45 and we were just pontificating, so to speak.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 18, 2010, 12:31:43 AM: I guess you could call it that, but thought the superciliousness, may have run its' gambit.

We can continue, though! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 18, 2010, 08:04:34 AM: I am still looking for the perfect combination for my .45 The new wrinkle is that I ran across a few Full Custom Pistol Smiths that had prices very close to the "Semi Custom" makers such as Wilson, Ed Brown, Et al. Some of the Custom guys of note are Volkmann, Pistol Dynamics, and Fusion arms. I have it in my head I will wait about 2 more weeks before making a decision. A few reasons for this is 1. Shot Show in Jan, We have a Large Gunshow here in 2 weeks, And to watch for any good deals that suddenly show up.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 18, 2010, 08:48:16 AM: Chief. Good reasoning and some excellent choices.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 18, 2010, 09:33:52 AM: I hope so, A nice thing is that pretty much all the Manufactures are giving me a 10% discount, so at least I am playing with a Lower price list.

On the Wilson Side I am leaning toward: CQB Compact w/ rounded Butt

Ed Brown is Executive Carry Bobtail

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 18, 2010, 09:51:06 AM: I do like the Ed Brown and as Reinz put it, the man can build a gun.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 18, 2010, 10:15:06 AM: I was looking at Les Baer's as well but alot of issues started showing up the more research I did, both with customer service and the (What many believe) overly tight gun.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 18, 2010, 10:34:54 AM: It is amazing what's out there, the custom gun builders, what one has versus the other, then making that right decision as you're in the process of doing now.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 18, 2010, 10:46:40 AM: I read an article in Hangunner a month or so ago that suggested buying a Plain Jane Springfiel Govt. Model and just sending it off. They said many people buy a more expensive gun and send it off, causing the total price to be much higher with same end product.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 18, 2010, 11:14:14 AM: That's what Richard did, except his was a plain Jane Colt. His turned out excellent.. Second post on this thread. Makes alot of sense.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 18, 2010, 12:05:03 PM: I had a Springfield Govt. model customized and am very happy with it. The one thing left to do is a match barrel and maybe refinishing but it is stainless. The Mil-Spec model wasn't available then but I would go with that one if you go that route. The Gunsmith I used doesn't do the rebuilds anymore but it was about $1100 total.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 18, 2010, 12:35:16 PM: Yes, milspec would be fine, can always send it out to Robar.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 18, 2010, 01:31:58 PM: Exactly; I already have the Bugatti. What I really want is the R45.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 18, 2010, 01:34:59 PM: I have mine, too! Still will be waiting on the R45.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 18, 2010, 01:45:58 PM: kjtrains: I goofed. When I read your post "...back to the .45" I could not resist making the comment about the Bugatti and R45.

What I did not realize was that your post was at the end of page 6 on the forum and there was a page 7. Oops.

Anyway, I am glad they make the Bugatti but I love my Chevy pickup truck with standard transmission.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 18, 2010, 03:21:36 PM: ACP. Perfectly understandable! Glad you love your truck.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 22, 2010, 07:51:28 AM: My neighbor threw me a curve lastnight. He brought home an STI Tactical for home defense. WOW! What a piece! It weighs over 2 lbs but that kills recoil and it is extremely accurate. (Definately not a "carry concealed" piece though. The Mag Well is huge :)

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 22, 2010, 10:07:53 AM: Chief. Is that something you might consider?
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on January 22, 2010, 11:54:48 AM: STI also has some light weight carry pieces. Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 22, 2010, 11:57:26 AM: I was just reading about the VIP carry piece. I had not concidered STI as they are mostly concidered a competition gun around here. Are you guys familiar with them? What are your opinions?

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on January 22, 2010, 12:05:08 PM: Chief, good stuff and they are made in Texas. I'll have their new catalog here next week. Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 22, 2010, 03:37:14 PM: Just got back from checking them out, there is not any model of theirs that has any sort of a smoothed out/bob tailed/ rounded or anything else to hide the grip a little. Which was one of the things i was liking about some of the others such as wilson CQB Compact, Ed Brown Executive carry, Volkmann Carry. I would maybe like one of their full sized Rail models though for around the house/range. What is their reputation like? I know they had quite a few problems on the business side a few years ago.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on January 22, 2010, 05:13:43 PM: Chief, they seem to running down the road just fine and are adding some new items to their line. Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 26, 2010, 07:48:21 AM: Starting to see feedback from the SHOT show that was last week in Vegas. Ed Brown has a new model that has some nice features but no Rail. One of the things I was looking for that it has are rear sights that give you the ability to actuate the slide giving one the ability to cycle the .45 w/ one hand allowing for one hand reloads in case of injury. But alas it apparently has no Rail. But Ed Brown being a semi custom shop, I am confident that if I wished them to put those sights on another piece such as the "Special Forces w/ light rail" they could.
  Gun show is this weekend and I am probably going to make my decision either at the Gun Show or next week.

  Tom, can you get Ed Browns?

  Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on January 26, 2010, 11:23:28 AM: Chief, I should be able to, let me know what model and I'll call them. Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 26, 2010, 12:28:37 PM: I do like the Ed Brown Kobra Carry! Excellent. Just me, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEv0vFgN6kQ
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: rtw on January 28, 2010, 10:40:34 PM: http://www.pistoldynamics.com/

Note: The Scout and the Pistol Dynamics X-O are well respected amongst SWAT team members, individual Military Contractors, Law Enforcement trainers and Spec-Ops personnel. We offer special pricing and services to active personnel who have to pay for their own equipment.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 28, 2010, 10:50:46 PM: Excellent looking guns, for sure!
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on January 28, 2010, 11:24:20 PM: I wonder if Pistol Dynamics has gouge marks on the inside of their slides after a 16 lot CNC run.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 29, 2010, 07:09:18 AM: You know not! :) :)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 29, 2010, 10:28:43 AM: Hmmm interesting looking pieces. I Like both the XO and the Scout for differant reasons. Can you get a scout w/rail?

Gun show is this weekend, If I find nothing there I am going to "try" to make a decision next week. I have made one decision though, There are some really nice 1911's out there. But some really stand apart, Like the BobTail on the Ed Brown Carry Pistols. It is so good of an Idea that several Pistol Makers Buy them from Ed Brown. (Wilson and Volkmann are 2)
Wilson has a Cone shaped barrel in their Pro models that Keeps the Barrel down like a compensater..... It seems every good maker/customiser has his special "thing".

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 29, 2010, 10:49:04 AM: Chief. Good luck at the Gun Show! Wonder if they have Ed Browns' there?
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on January 29, 2010, 10:54:47 AM: Quote
http://www.pistoldynamics.com/

Note: The Scout and the Pistol Dynamics X-O are well respected amongst SWAT team members, individual Military Contractors, Law Enforcement trainers and Spec-Ops personnel. We offer special pricing and services to active personnel who have to pay for their own equipment.

As mentioned on the firstpage of this thread...These Pistol Dymamics have a "cult" like following like R9s and P7s....but yep...they are pricey.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on January 29, 2010, 12:33:16 PM: Hmmmm, those Rohrbaugh owners are kind of weird.... ;D Don't know if I need to join ANOTHER cult !!! ;D

I am doing research on the Pistol Dynamics now. As I mentioned before, I am actually looking foe (2) 1911's as (1) does not seem to fill the bill. I want Commander/Officer sized for carry and a Full sized with Rail for #1 Home defense weapon.

So..... The search goes on :)

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on January 29, 2010, 02:15:38 PM: Chief, on with the hunt... Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on January 31, 2010, 06:43:32 PM: Chief. Did you find anything at the gun show?
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on January 31, 2010, 09:33:37 PM: Chief: What gun show were you attending? Where I live, gun shows are small and provincial. One of my fantasies is to attend a large gun show like in Texas, Florida. Lexington (Kentucky), Phoenix, et al.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 01, 2010, 08:09:55 AM: We have a regularly scheduled show in two loacations. I am in Jacksonville, FL. We have a couple companies that run gun shows that come through here about 4 times a year each. So we have a gunshow somewhere about every month or so. One prefers to do it at the Fairgrounds, the other at the Morroco shrine auditorium. There are about 200-300 venders at each. Usually if you are not buying and just trying to look at most things , it takes about 2 1/2 hours for the first pass. Then you go back and haggle over the things you saw that you wanted. The only things I saw at this one besides some really good deals on AR-15 parts, were some interesting new ideas for concealed carry holsters. (One guy was demonstrating one of his holsters by holding it upside down with a piece in it, saying this was a good thing as you do not lose your piece. I told him that if I ever find myself in a situation where I will be expecting to be upside down while carrying I would look him up ;D)

So, not sure how these shows compare in size to yours, this particular one had no high end .45's but if I were looking for a Kimber, Colt, S&W, Taurus, Bersa, or Berretta I would be in good shape. (Also some very big guns, up to and including 20mm.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on February 01, 2010, 10:01:11 AM: Chief: Thank you for your response. When I lived in NJ I used to go to the Allentown, PA show which was big. There was also a decent show in Middletown, NY.

In northern New England there is a circuit of shows with about 50 dealers but they are the same dealers and all they change is the town in which the show takes place.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on February 01, 2010, 10:33:21 AM: Chief:

Just to add another consideration to the mix, I note that Clint Smith has given high marks to the Guncrafter Industries American Model in his "Reality Check" column of the January/February 2010 edition of American Handgunner. You can check out the pistol at the company's website:

www.guncrafterindustries.com
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 03, 2010, 02:38:29 PM: Being that .45 ammo is relatively expensive compared to 9mm I have started reloading again and also along the way found a source for big discounts on reloading supplies and ammo. Example: Walmart price for 100 Rds white box is about $28.00 around here (when you can find it). This place has many kinds and some of what is in stock is Federal 9mm FMJ at $11.00 per 50 rd box. Total is less then $23.00 and I do not have to go anywhere to get it.
This is the link to it:
Http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

I just ordered some new scales and tumbler from them.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 06:14:49 PM: Quote

I am doing research on the Pistol Dynamics now.

Chief. Any conclusions on your research of Pistol Dynamics?
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: ACP on February 03, 2010, 09:39:30 PM: Chief's comments regarding reloading remind me of my ill fated attempt to become a reloader. I received a Lee progressive reloader as a Christmas present about 15 years ago.

I could not figure out how to put it together. I was consoled that my gundealer could not figure it out either.

My subsequent understanding was that the Lee progressive was a "bear" to assemble and I would have been better off starting as a novice with a more simple reloading tool.

This was my experience and does not reflect whether or not the Lee is as bad a reloader, as was my experience, for those of you who may disagree, but that is my story.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 10:22:24 PM: I thought about reloading too. A friend of mine,an experienced reloader, reloaded some .45 ACPs for me, and at the range one day, one round went poof. He has many years of experience.

My thoughts waned quickly. Never have wanted to reload since. Now I know others here like to reload, and that's great; just not for me.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 10:23:50 PM: Thanks, ACP; you have confirmed my suspicions and doubts. I recall Richard saying that the Judge asked him not to reload ammo on a quid pro quo agreement.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Richard S on February 04, 2010, 07:43:36 AM: Quote
Thanks, ACP; you have confirmed my suspicions and doubts. I recall Richard saying that the Judge asked him not to reload ammo on a quid pro quo agreement.

Yes, the things we do for love. ;) (I probably should never have told her about that time in high school chemistry class when I accidentally flushed the wrong combination of stuff down my assigned sink and blew out the lab's plumbing.)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on February 04, 2010, 12:19:31 PM: It may be wise to keep the reloading suspicions in the prima facie category instead of escalating into res ipsa loquitur.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: P7Enigma on February 04, 2010, 01:04:40 PM: Hey Chief!...finally found you a fullsize 45! ;D

(http://www.tommygun.com/imgs/img_PA_t1dm.jpg)

650 bucks at: http://www.tommygun.com/PA-1TH_t1dm.html
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 04, 2010, 01:06:38 PM: hmmmmm.........
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 04, 2010, 01:08:27 PM: Talking to a guy now about a Wilson Combat Tactical / LE w/rail

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 04, 2010, 10:19:52 PM: Quote
Hey Chief!...finally found you a fullsize 45! ;D

(http://www.tommygun.com/imgs/img_PA_t1dm.jpg)

650 bucks at: http://www.tommygun.com/PA-1TH_t1dm.html

P7. This thing doesn't work! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 08, 2010, 11:24:42 AM:   Well Deal for the Wilson could never get agreed on, So I am now switching over to Ed Browns. Something came to light during all my research about Wilsons. If you buy their "entry Level" CQB model, you do not get their best parts. Unlike the Ed Browns. Ed Brown puts their best parts in all of their guns. The differances are in the cosmetics/special options. They are telling me it should take about 90 days max from time of placing the order.

I am leaning toward a special edition Pistol called
Molon Labe Special And the options under concideration are:

1. Having it built in a Railed Frame (So I can mount laser/light)
2. No Forward Cocking serations (Gets snagged at times)
3. Short trigger (Self Explanatory)
4. 10-8 Sights (Fast aquisition, and ability to use for 1 handed cocking)

  Sounds like a very functional piece plus should also hold value well as it is a limited production gun to begin with and has several custom features separating it from the pack.

  With my discount, total still comes in under $2500
  The adventure continues ;D


Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 08, 2010, 11:36:05 AM: Chief. Thanks for the update. Lean on towards the Ed Brown. You'll like it. Just my opinion, of course. :) :)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 08, 2010, 11:43:58 AM: Ed Brown is like Rohrbaugh in a few ways, When you have your gun built it will most likely be worked on by someone in the Brown family. It is very much a family business even after being around for over 40 years. They are good to deal with as well. An example is, When we were going over my options and I mentioned I wanted a railed frame but no serations on the front, I was told "Good, that saves you money, we can call it a wash between the railed frame and no serations on the front" And he worked with me like that all the way through. He also gave me a little background on the Molon Labe Special pistol, Exclusive grips, etc. Seems the pistol did not exist until 2-3 weeks before the SHOT show. Now they are working hard to get them out.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 08, 2010, 11:45:30 AM: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173184&page=2

This is a Link to some pics of a "Stock" Molon Labe Special
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 08, 2010, 12:00:44 PM: Now that is excellent, for sure.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on February 08, 2010, 12:52:53 PM: Chief, Are you going to get a carry version as well? Ed also makes some real nice rifles. Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 08, 2010, 01:38:53 PM: My plan is to get an Ed Brown Carry version of something. I really like the BobTail Commander frame. They are so distintive. But that will be after my bank account recovers from the full size one probably. (Unless a deal beats me over the head ;D)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 08, 2010, 01:50:23 PM: Chief. Hopefully, the plan will come together soon! Good luck!
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Aglifter on February 08, 2010, 10:19:22 PM: Make sure Ed Brown doesn't put MIM parts in their base models -- I bought an Ed Brown slide stop from Midway USA and was surprised to find it was an MIM piece -- they make a steel part for a few dollars more.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: tracker on February 08, 2010, 10:27:42 PM: Great point.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 09, 2010, 07:46:43 AM: That must have been along time ago, are you sure you are not thinking Wilson? Ed Brown uses no MIM parts. And they make all of their own parts. They only use one level of parts in all their guns, unlike Wilson, who uses one level of parts in some guns and another in others. Most people end up buying Ed Brown Slide stops when anything happens in their own piece such as Kimbers/Wilsons/Springfields/etc

From Ed Brown Web Sight:

Do Ed Brown handguns have any MIM (metal injection molded) parts?

No, we use no MIM parts in Ed Brown firearms. While the current thinking is that MIM parts are "good enough" for firearm applications, this thinking doesn't fit with our philosophy at all. All Ed Brown parts are made from either forgings, bar stock steel, or quality investment castings.

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 09, 2010, 07:56:51 AM: Chief. Good to know.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 09, 2010, 08:09:18 AM: The Gun we are working on has the following options:

1. Molon Labe Pistol (Executive Elite is what it is based on)
2. Use Railed Frame for accessory mounting
3. All Stainless upper and lower
4. Gen 3 Coating (Similar to Robar but Black in color)
5. 10-8 Battle sights (Rear)
6. Gold Dot Front sights
7. Flattened and serrated Top
8. 8 Round Magazines (Fits Flush with the Beveled Well)
9. No front serrations

Everything on the gun has a purpose, it shoual be quite a piece and will not be like "what the other guys have". I like the fact I can "build" my own. Should also hold value up.
Only down side looks like 90 days.

Now if the R45 comes around.......
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 09, 2010, 08:17:21 AM: The 90 days really isn't that bad. It will be here before you know it. The R45...........over a year, at best. That will seem like a long time.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on February 10, 2010, 12:46:50 PM: Chief, You realize, since you started this mini novel, you will need to keep us all up to date on the wait as well as the range check and the good finish, the carry of. ;) :D ;D Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 10, 2010, 03:34:16 PM: I will keep you up to date a try to post pics when it gets here. I really apreciate the help you guys have been on sending me to various smiths to compare and work out packages with. It just came down to no one had everything in one gun that I was looking for so I am having to go custom (Or Semi custom as the case may be) It is nice that Ed Brown uses all the "Custom" parts other companies buy from him for their pieces. All Ed brown parts are made in house , in the USA. I like that as well. They also told me that the Molon Labe edition would be made for at the most 1 year. If sales/orders fall, maybe less. That plus the fact a gun configured like mine will be rare, should hold the value up as well. (In case my kids want to sell it ;D )
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on February 10, 2010, 04:29:01 PM: You made a great choice! :) :)
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Aglifter on February 12, 2010, 07:20:47 PM: Quote
That must have been along time ago, are you sure you are not thinking Wilson?

Bought it around November '09-- this was just a part off midway USA, not a whole pistol. The Brown "hardcore" line are supposed to be steel.

Perhaps Brown DN use their lower-end line in their pistols, but unless theres another process that makes a part smooth, w. seams, they make MIM parts.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on February 15, 2010, 08:23:33 AM: According to Brown they make No MIM parts. Give them a call and talk to them . Justin would be the guy you will probably be speaking with. His phone is:
573-565-3261

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: skivail on March 08, 2010, 04:41:37 PM: Chief,
I was in Ohio and looking at 1911's at various gun shops. A couple of shops had Wilson's. They are over $2,500.00 - are they worth that much money? They let me dry fire one and it was great. In addition to a Rohrbaugh, I have a Kimber with a 3" barrell (Ultra Raptor), and a Glock 36 - both in .45. Is a Wilson that much better. Is an Ed Brown even better?

Thanks Ex Spec-5, U.S. Army 65 & 66
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on March 08, 2010, 04:54:08 PM:   I have found that apparently after 5,000 rounds guns like Kimbers, Springfields, Sigs, et al. Need work. But the Ed Browns, Wilson's, Volkmanns, Nighthawks are good for 50,000 plus rounds on average before they need work. They hold their value quite well as well. Even worn out they are worth 33% or more of their retail. Granted all modern guns from the big guys, outshoot me, I just have this thing about not owning something "as good as" I want the thing that is being used as the measuring stick ;D .
  Does that make sense? I think I am going to have Volkmann build me a .45 carry. He is a former Ed Brown guy that went off on his own a few years back. Beautiful pieces.
By the way big guy, thanks for serving bro.

  Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: skivail on March 08, 2010, 05:19:08 PM: Quote
I have found that apparently after 5,000 rounds guns like Kimbers, Springfields, Sigs, et al. Need work. But the Ed Browns, Wilson's, Volkmanns, Nighthawks are good for 50,000 plus rounds on average before they need work. They hold their value quite well as well. Even worn out they are worth 33% or more of their retail. Granted all modern guns from the big guys, outshoot me, I just have this thing about not owning something "as good as" I want the thing that is being used as the measuring stick ;D .
Does that make sense? I think I am going to have Volkmann build me a .45 carry. He is a former Ed Brown guy that went off on his own a few years back. Beautiful pieces.
By the way big guy, thanks for serving bro.

Chief

I like "I want the thing that is being used as the measuring stick" : mind if I borrow it. Using your philosophy and adding that I'm old, the Wilsons in stock are interesting. I'll have to sell a few pistols to buy a Wilson but I think I would smile a lot. Thank you for serving Chief. My service was a long time ago, in the US, and I didn't go voluntarily. Actually Basic in Ft. Dix was the best thing that ever happened to me.

A.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: Chief-USN on March 08, 2010, 05:31:07 PM: It does'nt matter where you served, when you signed the line you told them you would go anywhere they sent you and you turned yourself over to serve.
You got lucky, good on you ! When I joined up, I was in boot camp and my mom got my draft notice. (1969) She actually called them and told them I was not coming in ;D

Chief
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: kjtrains on March 08, 2010, 05:55:58 PM: skivail. Welcome to the Forum. Post often.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: theirishguard on March 08, 2010, 07:50:49 PM: skivail, a welcome to the forum from Texas as well. Tom
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: skivail on March 09, 2010, 07:50:04 AM: Chief,
I was very lucky - spent 18 months in civilian clothes and TDY pay made E5 (temp) in 18 months. When I was drafted had a pilot license and thought I would go to Rucker for rotary. Army asked me when I had 11 months left. I was willing to do whatever they wanted but not to volunteer with 11 months left. On my way to DC now, back Thurs PM.

Guys, thanks for the welcome.

A.
Title: Re: Looking for a full size .45
Post by: yankee2500 on March 10, 2010, 11:15:45 PM: skivail, welcome to the group.

John