The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: JoshA on April 02, 2014, 11:47:39 PM
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I see there are several seecamp owners on this forum.
Talk about a carry much and shoot little gun ... Wow. This things raps knuckles like an old school nun my dad used to tell me about back in the day when he was in grade school. Lol.
As a plus you have to give credit for forging a fine piece of craftsmanship as well as making, to the best of my knowledge, the smallest auto .380. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
I think I may be looking into a Kahr380 one of these days. Anyone love this pistol?
Sometimes i opt to carry the Seecamp for its smallness. I don't have the most confidence in it though I think that the Kahr380 would be much more shootable.
Also I have had the trigger bar piece break in two on mine as well as both mags end up cracked with broken followers. Larry was great and replaced them with no problems, but reliability is a tad spooky.
Does anyone have any feedback on this topic?
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I love mine...yea it hits the finger a bit, but so what. Wear a bandaid like some do. I dont get the heavy recoil thing ? When I got my 340pd all I read was how it will blow a hand off...yea right its stout with full .357 loads but my hands intact lol
Now for the bad its only real advantage is the cross sectional density of the .380 vs .32.
Even Larry S edc a .32
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Let's start this off by saying I like Seecamps. At this time I have 6 -25's, 8 - 32's, 3 - 380's, a Colt Commander conversion and a Colt Government Model conversion. Now before you start laughing, two of these are engraved and there are several sets of restricted editions and some I just picked up at a good price.
I have not carried a Seecamp in at least 10 or 12 years.. I have no confidence in my ability to protect myself with a LWS 380, and there are a lot more effective pistols in my mind than a LWS32. If I carried a bug, I would give the 32 some thought.
My objective to carrying a pistol is to have the most effective caliber that I can use proficiently without totally changing the way I dress and conduct myself.
Just because a pistol will fit in my pocket as easy as a cigarette lighter does not appeal to me.
The Kahr P380 is my favorite 380 pistol. Put it in a super fly holster and it disappears in my pocket. I carry it when dress dictates that i carry a smaller pistol. I have friends who have both the P380 and the CW380 and the cheaper gun performs just as well. The P380 is the only 380 since my Mustang that is fun to shoot. It is both accurate and so easy to shoot, you don't want to stop.
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I always have "something" on me no matter what or where(as long as it's legal of course), so, even around my house I carry a Kahr P380 and forget that it's there sometimes. Weight is a factor for me as well as all the other variables. It is one of the easier shooting 380's I've tried. Years ago I reloaded and shot hundreds of rounds 44mag, but there is nothing more aggravating to my older hands now than a little pistol to snappy on my knuckles. R
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Yeah I'm going to have to get one. The LWS is pretty just not as practical as this sounds to be.
Trident: what do you mean by cross sectional density?
Thanks for the good input.
MRC: I would like to see that collection. Sounds cool. In your opinion is there a great diff between the P and CW other than the hexagonal rifling?
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Yeah I'm going to have to get one. The LWS is pretty just not as practical as this sounds to be.
Trident: what do you mean by cross sectional density?
Thanks for the good input.
MRC: I would like to see that collection. Sounds cool. In your opinion is there a great diff between the P and CW other than the hexagonal rifling?
It is Sectional Density and it is an objects mass divided by it's cross sectional area.
The only difference in the CW and the P is one less magazine, cheaper markings, and some MIM parts (mainly the slide stop which is important). The P's barrel is a Lother /Walther match grade, but is that really need on a SD pocket pistol? I have talked to guys with both and they shoot identical.
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Forgive the simple minded question please. How does the sectional density relate to the pros and cons of the pistol? Not trying to be a wise guy I just don't get it. Thanks.
So if you were buying one to EDC and shoot and not really care about the long term value of the pistol etc what would you purchase? P or CW? Looks like the P will cost +\- $200 more. What do you think MRC?
Anyone else have experience or an opinion?
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The 380 punches a slightly bigger hole than a 32. ;)
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Forgive the simple minded question please. How does the sectional density relate to the pros and cons of the pistol? Not trying to be a wise guy I just don't get it. Thanks.
So if you were buying one to EDC and shoot and not really care about the long term value of the pistol etc what would you purchase? P or CW? Looks like the P will cost +\- $200 more. What do you think MRC?
Anyone else have experience or an opinion?
Josh, that is going to depend on the person doing the buying. The guy I know that has both bought the CW380 for a backup and was pleasantly surprised.
You would still need another magazine and the MIM takedown pin scares me a little, but if I was not going to shoot it a lot, what the hell.
Personally, I would go for the P380. Polygonal rifling gives better velocities and at least for me, it nice to own the best.
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Sounds good to me.
So are you saying the takedown is also different on the CW? I get this impression from the mention of a MIM takedown pin.
As always you are a wealth of good info sir.
Thanks for all of the help.
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I've had a Seecamp 380 a P380 and an LCP 380 and the P380 was hands down the best shooting of the bunch. The Seecamp is a finely crafted gun but knocked the crap out of my trigger finger and I'm not wearing a bandaid to practice with any gun, I sold it and moved on. I no longer have any 380s.
Now my smallest carry pieces are the Pup and a Kahr PM9
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I've had most of the pocket 380s at some point.
LCP and Bodyguard are gone. Great reliable pistols for the money, but didn't capture my attention. P380 and LWS380 are both lifetime keepers along with the 90's era Colt Mustang Pocketlite.
IMHO the P380 is the best small pocket 380 available because it shoots like a much bigger pistol. It can also be had in black with night sights. (Bonus)
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The seecamp 32 is my favorite because of size and safety. It is the fastest gun you can get into action (pocket pistol). The Colt Pony should be remade.
AS for the seecamp 380 - ouch
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Well I have picked up a CW380. Why a CW rather than a P you may ask. The answer is simple. The LGS didn't have a P, but the had a mildly used CW380 for $250 + tax.
I couldn't resist. I guess if I must add the P to the collection later I can't be hurt by paying $250 for this like new CW380.
Well i knew it was like new from looking it over, but I was surprised to see it only 200 serial numbers away from a brand new one they had in the case. Lol. The owner told the guy showing it to me that so and so brought it back as a trade in. After a roll of the eyes he informed me that so and so trades every few weeks and that he would be surprised if it had 50 rounds through it. Well I filled out the paperwork, and smacked down the cash.
Brought it home and ran 50 blazers through it as fast as I could (it was cold)
I was impressed. Very smooth!! Fired all 50 without a hiccup. Shot 7 rounds as fast as I could one handed with my weak hand. No problem. Nice trigger as all reviews point out.
So of course I wanted to show my father in law my deal that I found for $250. He's a 1911 guy and hates all things non 1911 (his wife has a 238 that he appreciates, BUT that's it), but I was kinda proud and wanted to show the wisdom of a very affordable pocket pistol. Lol. I rand 6 flawless rounds as fast as I could into a 55 gallon drum 7 paces away. Then pleased as punch handed him the gun. Of the 7 rounds he attempted to run through it 5 failed to go all the way into battery when the slide rocked forward. So the my nephew gave it a whirl. Not much better. Then I began to explain that it had a 200 round break in and blah, blah, blah : ) well if Hickock pocket carries a P9 they can't be all that bad. Lol. It was ugly.
I brought it home and cleaned it and polished the ramp and can't wait to run another 125 rounds through it.
I believe it will end up a great pistol, but my father in law wouldn't believe it if I saved his life with it at this point. Hilarious!!
I'll post more on it later to let everybody know how it does. Wish it was a P, but I'm happy with it for now.
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Put another 57 through the CW380 today after a good cleaning. That makes 132 from me and probably very few from the previous owner.
It shot flawlessly for me, but my kid and nephew struggled with a handlful of rounds to feed properly. Likely due to limp wristing of course.
It's a nice little gun.
I don't see anywhere that says no +P so I guess its +P rated. Safe assumption?
I hear the golden saber +p is a good round.
LJ what does your experience tell you is the best short barrel .380?
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I wanted to also mention that I broke out the Seecamp to compare it to the Kahr.
Wow I got a refresher course in why I bought the Seecamp. A reminder of what a wonder of an engineering feat it is. Pain in the shooting finger or not, I am impressed. There is no reason to leave home without a firearm if you own a seecamp. TINY
SHOOT LITTLE- CARRY WHEN YOU CANT CARRY SOMETHING BIGGER :)
I'm keeping my 2 for what it's worth.
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To my knowledge, there is no SAAMI spec for +P 380 ammo. If someone is advertising it, proceed with caution as there are no specs for the firearm producers to manufacture to.
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Anyone have any experience shooting the buffalo bore +p .380 out of a Kahr 380 or similar?
Do you think I should just stick with standard pressure rounds MRC?
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Call Kahr.
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Sounds like good advice. Thanks.
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It seems to me that pushing the limits on the pressures generated when a round is fired is probably best left to the engineers who designed the weapon(s)...at least in today's world. Back in Elmer Keith's day, the science of metallurgy didn't have computers and the history (of both good and bad ideas) at hand, so it was kinda OK for him to famously say "I never saw a handgun I didn't want to blow up." Even then, he was considered pretty cool...but really pretty NUTZ...brave, but still nutz.
If you want more power...buy a gun that will handle it...there's lots of proven choices in very small packages that don't involve being the "crash dummy."
Just my .00002 worth (inflation and net value reduction.) ;)
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Point well taken hedrok. I will check in with Kahr and see what they say.
I wouldn't run +p in my R9 (clearly stated not to) or Kahr 380 (not clearly stated not to) if they aren't rated for such loads.
I'm kind of a junky on finding the most power in the smallest packages. It seems this is what technology is always pushing for and in a society where you can leave the house with your smart phone, wallet and a pistol and (God willing) be prepared for just about anything life will throw at you it's of interest to insure all 3 are loaded in +p fashion if allowable.
If not, a change up is always recommendable if needed :)
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My guess is that the P380 can handle the +P Buffalo Bore, but better safe than sorry.
The Max pressure for a std pressure 9mm is 35,000 psi and the +P is 10% more or 38,500 psi. Very high pressures indeed.
The Max pressure on a 380 is 21,500 psi. If the Buffalo Bore is 10% higher {who knows} it would be at 23,850 which is not very high by today's standards.
In contrast the Max pressure on a S&W 500 Mag is 60,000 psi and on a 460 S&W Mag it is 65,000 psi.
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Spoken like a true engineer MRC :) Thanks sir.
I'll go ahead and post as accurately as possible Kahr's response for you guys too.
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Hey, MRC...Since you seem to have quick access to the info...Where does a .327 Federal Mag come in??
I had thought the trend was "the larger the caliber/gauge...the higher the pressure. Not so in shotguns.
The .410 is almost 1.5 X a 12 ga. :o
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Hey, MRC...Since you seem to have quick access to the info...Where does a .327 Federal Mag come in??
I had thought the trend was "the larger the caliber/gauge...the higher the pressure. Not so in shotguns.
The .410 is almost 1.5 X a 12 ga. :o
The 327 Federal comes in at 45,000 psi. I did not know that it was that high. I have been after S&W to bring out a Model 16 in that caliber without success.
Here is a link to the specs:
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfPR.pdf
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FYI:
Q. Which ammunition is recommended for use with Kahr firearms?
A. Kahr Arms does not endorse any particular brand of ammunition. However, not every brand of ammunition produces the same results. Please check the markings on the barrel hood of your firearm to determine the proper caliber. Kahr suggests a visit to a pistol range to test fire different brands of ammunition in the proper caliber. Kahr do not recommend steel case, reloads or un-jacketed ammunition.
The Kahr pistol is rated to +P.
I actually called in and verbally asked and right away the answer was "yes the 380's will shoot +p". I then asked where I may verify such info in writing and I was directed here
https://www.kahr.com/faq.asp
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So I ran 67 flawless rounds through the CW 380 Kahr today. This parks me personally around the 200 round mark through the gun. I figure the other owner had to run 50-100 through it.
It was just range ammo but it ran like a sewing machine. It really is a smooth little gun.
Very compact.
+p rated
Slender.
Decent sights with night sights as an option. (big dots too : )
Very accurate at 7 paces. I was plinking 6" steel very easily.
Follow up shots are cake. You can easily dump a mag as fast as you can squeeze the trigger in a center of mass size area from 5-7 yards.
I think I may vote for the "best bang for the buck pocket pistol" on this one. I mean $30 more than a NAA .22 magnum you can get a (granted it is used).380, semi auto with a great reputation for reliability. So far I'm thinking this is a great buy. I know that's likely a weird thing to mention on the Rohrbaugh forum where most folks rarely mention such things, but Kahr fills a very interesting niche! I've even been talking to some glock guys who are going toward the Kahr 9's to fill the gap in their armory. Kinda cool to me anyway.
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Sounds like you got a winner!!! 8)
Like just about everybody, Kahr went thru their own "jamb-o-matic phase a few years ago, but they also did a great job of listening
to their customers who were running away in droves and put some really good fixes in place. Now, they have their customers
back... in droves...and get a rebuilt reputation in the process.
Isn't that something like "101 basic staying in business logic?" ;D
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I think most of us in business have seen problems. They don't define the company. What does more to define a company is how they handle the issues. I guess that's where integrity comes in to play and why you do reap what you sow.
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Well I was able to buy some .380 range ammo off of a guy today so I can run this Kahr CW.380 through its paces a little more. I shot up all but 50 of my .380's prior to today.
So I now have 500 rounds of .380 to torture this little gun with.
Still on the prowl for some .38o buffalo bore +p JHP
Hope to post some more results of flawless functionality for the little Kahr.
Until then : )
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I ran 57 rounds through the little Kahr today.
Grrrr. Thought it was a sewing machine until today. Didn't like the federal range ammo. Had about 5 failure to eject out of 50 rounds.
I'll switch ammo up and try again.
It ran the hydra shocks just fine (7)
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Well it wasn't favoring the Remington range ammo either. I think I had a FTE or 2 out of about 20 rounds. I will clean it and try some more experimentation. I will post results for all you millions closely following this post. Hehehe.
Peace out.
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Please don't allow your ego to elevate to tsunami Hemingway levels; with the Rohrbaugh factory closed we're just a bit short on reading material lately.
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lol.
No kidding 8)
Hopefully it won't be too much longer.
~Charles Dickens... NOT ;D
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Keep those cards and letters coming, Chuck. A watched pot never boils.
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Had some fun with these two 380's on Friday. 70 rounds of 6 different loads for the DB and 45 rounds of 5 different for the Glock. No problems at all so far. Should make for nice positive reviews.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos%204/b2e6755f-ba98-4bd8-8865-5f5fc02ebe26_zps36f42852.jpg)
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Hey Bruce,
That was you I saw a video of reviewing the G27 with 9mm and .357 sig barrels wasn't it?
Also, the Kahr CW .380 was an attempt to find a good small pocket .380 to replace my kinda unshootable Seecamp with (which happens to be in my pocket as we speak due to some reliability issues with the Kahr)
Do you (or anybody) know what the Kahr likes to eat? So far I have had 0 FTE with primo ammo, but the range stuff isn't doing so well.
I'm kinda a stickler on reliability, so if you have a good idea of the perfect pocket pistol I am all ears.
FOR ME the solo is a touch too big for my pockets, so I carry it IWB. The Kahr fits the bill IF I can work the kinks out. The R9 is broken (and it struggled with reliability prior to the malfunction)and 1 hair too big FOR MY POCKET. Seecamp is too much of a beast to shoot well FOR ME.
Whatcha think?
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Well I ran about 25 federals hard ball through it today and had another jam or two. Then went to federal hi shok hollow point and it ran all 30 without a hickup, so I'm thinking it likes the good stuff. Since .380 is real hard to find and really not any options for heavier gr bullets like 9mm I guess it's as good as I will be able to do.
It did like the Russian tulamo which is the spicier variety, so I guess that kinda confirms my suspicions.
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Well after another 100 rounds of various ammo I have experienced various results with reliability
So far this is what I have figured out with the gun
1) decent size and weight for pocket carry
2) will handle +p loads if you can find em in .380
3) really good sights
4) decent accuracy
5) mild recoil
6) doesn't do great with most range ammo so far. Best have been tulamo and blazer aluminum. Don't ask me. Just sayin.
7) likes golden sabers and hydra shocks well. No FTE thus far. Kahr's web site lists these two and hornaday (I think) as good functioners.
8) great buy for the buck at $250-$320
9) build quality not that of a higher end pistol, but it hasn't self destructed like a Seecamp and reliability is as good or better than MY r9
10) very thin
11) all around I like this little pocket gun. If it continues to be 100% with hornaday, hydra shock and or golden sabers (or buffalo bore +p) I will make this my pocket pistol. Due to thin frame and lighter weight it MAY take the place of the r9 when I get it repaired. We'll see.
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Ordered .380 +p buffalo Bore in both 100 grain and 90 grain from midway this weekend.
I feel like I will be fairly well armed in a pocket carry scenario if the little Kahr cycles the BB +P well. Though it's a bit longer, the working sights, thin design, light weight +P rating and MOST IMPORTANTLY the manageable recoil (quite frankly it's a gravy recoil) make it a MUCH better choice for a pocket .380 than the Seecamp IMO. I have no intention of getting rid of my Seecamp because it is such a novelty, BUT it's not fun, practical or tactical to shoot.
😳UCH is all I can say when I think of it. Lol.
No other feedback eh? Well maybe I will save someone a bit of cash, time at the range and some Carpal Tunnel by posting my opinion.
Kind of hate to say it because Larry seems to be a nice guy and their aren't many guns around made with a old school mindset for quality like Seecamp. I just think its a painful choice to make that I would have done differently had I seen a experience comparison like this one.
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Well I received the buffalo bore +p but the 2 boxes came in 80 grain. I actually wanted the 100 gr, but oh well I got what I've got.
Anyone have a good way to do a decent at home expansion/penetration comparison with the golden Sabre?
Maybe some wet newspaper or a wet phone book??
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Well I ran 19 of the +p 80 gr .380 buffalo bore yesterday.
It ran without a hitch and it is loaded in the right front pocket today with a spare mag in the front left pocket.
As I ran it I was again just amazed at the totally manageable recoil and accuracy produced from such a small and inexpensive true pocket pistol. It's not a 9mm, but it's smaller than a R9 with better recoil, sights, and so far more reliable.
So far I am getting 100% reliability out of the golden Sabre, hydra shocks and now buffalo bore +p
Range ammo is scetchy, but that's not unusual for these small pistols. Wish the Glock 42 was this size : )
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Another 150 rounds down the pipe of the CW 380 today.
It likes the Winchester and Remington better than the federal.
I can tell ya it is a bit picky about what it likes.
Had a ftf(feed) and a few fails to lock back. The worst thing was the annoying habit of not properly chambering the first round though. Shouldn't be a big deal in real life if you carry one in the pipe (I do), but it is at the range.
Still like it a lot for a pocket pistol
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I have never run any cheap ammo through my P380 and I have never had a failure.
It just like the R9's, find a good SD type ammo that works and stick with it for carry.
I am very different from you Josh in that I very seldom run more than 2 or 3 magazines through my pocket carry pistols at a session. This gets rid of the ammo I have been carrying in the loaded pistol and verifies relialility with what I plan to carry.
I broke it in with 4 or 5 different SD type ammo's without a failure, and I now have complete faith in it.
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Quite frankly this makes a lot of sense. This is what I will eventually do with it and my other carry guns.
I am at a weird stage of life where I want to become proficient with a sidearm. I have been spending more time and money than I should at the range with attempts to rise to a notch above where I have been and therefore have been shooting a lot.
This however, will not continue for ever. I hope I'm doing more good than harm to my abilities.
The X factor of ammo I am throwing at my pistols is a bit challenging to figure out reliability after the hodge podge, but I understand your point and it is well taken.
Eventually I will settle in on a top gun in 2-3 scenarios and get to a place of where I feel I have achieved a level of competance that will allow me to move on to other things and merely brush up on my skill set (hopefully). But for now I am having some fun punishing these guns and my hands : )
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Josh, the truth be known I feel that I am woefully unprepared for any serious confrontation but I really do not expect that to happen. I avoid areas or situations where trouble could arise.
I have chosen pocket carry and car carry as my two forms of personal protection away from the home. These are at best the most minimal forms in my mind. Any gun in your pocket is better than none, just as a 380 beats a 32 and a 9mm beats a 380. I still feel I am not very well protected and I accept that.
I have several friends who have gone through the Front Sight Course in Los Vegas and when they come back, they feel good about carrying a firearm. If I was more serious about it, I would go also.
What you are doing is probably right for you.
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Add another 150 rounds of .380 through the little Kahr again today.
It has strange habits on not locking open on the final round. Very erratic.
It ran the Winchester white box well.
It ran the Remington ok for range ammo.
I didn't run any federal today.
All in all it's pretty solid little gun and I consistently hit pretty well with it.
Best pocket pistol I own at the moment. The solo is too big for my pocket carry requirements and the R9 is awaiting a warranty repair. I don't think I would want to get much larger than this for pocket carry personally.
So this is what I'm toting for pocket carry these days and either the G27 or the sig 224 inside the waist band when I can untuck my shirt, which is usually.
The 224 is quite a bit heavier than I am accustomed to carrying. Not sure it will take the place of my trusty G27.
I do wish that Glock would hurry up with that single stack 9. That's got to be their next big release. I think that may be the end all for as close to carry perfection for this civilian anyway.
Go shoot something. Won't be long and it will be Christmas again and we will all have cabin fever wishing it was nice out so we could go shoot : )
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I see that this month's (July 2014) issue of the American Rifleman has a 2 page write up on the Kahr CW380
As a side note, there was also an article in there about how gun manufacturers are moving South.
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The single stack 9mm Glock is going to be bigger than the Kimber Solo.
IMO, the single stack 9mm Glock is going to join an already crowded field of the larger "pocket" pistols like the Kel Tec PF-11, Diamondback DB9, Kahr PM9 / CM9, and SIG SAUER P938.
Not that that it won't do well - I'm sure it will, but I don't see it filling a niche that hasn't already been covered years ago by other pistol makers.
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Personal opinion here, but if it says and functions Glock then it will sell HUGE. I think it could be the same size as the shield or XDS and do wonderfully. For those who believe in a Glock, to be able to carry 7-8 rounds in a more streamline fashion (than the 19 or 26) with arguably the most popular/dependable brand (I said arguably) I think it's a no brainer. Obviously a lot of other people do too.
This is obviously not a site where people get overly exstatic over black, ugly, polymar pistols that run like a beast day and night without so much as a cleaning (rightfully so I might add), but I can see why the Glock is so popular. It delivers on its rep and those that trust their lives to them in their workplace don't seem to complain too much. At least not that I've heard or read.
Enlighten me if I'm mistaken.
That all being the case, you are right. It will hit the cases right next to a lot of other small-mid sized handguns and won't be anything really new to its size and class. Just another totally reliable, relatively inexpensive gun that shoot pretty well all the time.
We sure are spoiled in America in the year 2014. I wouldn't trade places with the pharaoh of Egypt of its most powerful day to be honest with ya. Who would?
Pharaoh: hey want all of this power and wealth?
Me: nah, I've got pretty much everything I want really.
Pharaoh: how about all of this good and jewels? Think of what you can buy!
Me: hmmm, where's the apples from michigan? The oranges from Florida, the mangos from Brazil, the peaches from Georgia? Besides that you don't even have a good pizza joint.
Pharaoh: well think of all of the people you can have stand around you and fan you all day long.
Me: lol. Hey dude I happen to have this thing called air conditioning. Wherever I am we can control the temperature so that you aren't too hot or too cold. Wow. Fans, really?
Pharaoh: Well we can ride around in these awesome chariots.
Me: ok check this Pharohstino. We have these metal tubes we sit (yes I said sit) in and we push a pedal and they go faster and in order to stop them we press the brake. Smooth, safe and gentle. We can go a hundred miles in an hour and a half for the value of 2 hours worth of wages of a man in poverty here ($20). Quiet. Controlled climate. Clean. Dry. Dust free. Music at the touch of a button. Radio. GPS. Telephone. On and on the list grows.
We could go into the luxury. We could go into the medical advances. We could go into the freedom from the need of slaves. We could go into the freedom from fears of war or crime due to an awesome invention of a handgun.
We could go into religious freedom.
we have a lot more to be thankful for than to worry about!
God has been good to us all here in the USA.
Too many guns is my problem??!!?? Wow. We are spoiled.
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I would have to concur with Josh and Count that the Glock single stack 9 will be a huge success after seeing how well the Mod 42 has sold. Like the Count, I probably will not be interested as I already have that type pistol covered by other brands that I am completely satisfied with. I would bet that it will be larger than the PM9.
On this board and the Seecamp Forum the regulars are very concerned about "size" as that is what has attracted them to these pistols and I will have to say that I also was caught up in that way of thinking for awhile. A lot of range work has proven, at least to me, that smaller is not always better when it comes to protection.
I believe that the vast majority of shooters out there are not nearly as size conscious as we are here and the Glock 42 and the XDs successes have proven that to me. At the time of the XDs recall, they had already sold nearly 250,000 pistols while it took Rohrbaugh 10 years to sell 6,500.
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Those numbers are staggering MRC!
I personally like having the option of pocket carry. It's great when the shirt is tucked in and you don't have a jacket on.
However there are drawbacks with it such as:
1) it feels worse than a michigan bank roll in your pocket
2) oftentimes a terrible print which makes me think I'm telling the world I'm carrying depending on the pants I'm wearing
3) slow draw speeds
4) potentially more hazardous draw style
5) limitation of functionality of the weapon due to the small size. Among the functionality issues I would say
A) reduced site pic
B) reduced durability
C) reduced accuracy
D) reduced mag cap
E) reduced reliability
F) reduction in barrel length/velocity
G) I probably missed a few
6) reduction in caliber
These are all duh's. We know them but I personally have justified them all under the guise of "well at least I always have a pistol with me" which is a good choice IF A GOOD HOLSTER RIG WONT WORK FOR ME.
A good IWB FOR ME is
1) more comfortable
2) more concealable
3) quicker into action
4) safer IMO
5) allows me to carry any caliber I would want
6) allows me to carry the most reliable pistols I know of
So I still pocket carry 1 in 7 days, but it's not what I term ideal.
I know others dress in a way that they feel like it's the best option. I get that too, but it is at a sacrifice of what you can/can't pack.
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I pocket carry spring, summer, and fall and 90% of the time in the winter. I just like it. My Boberg XR45s is due in next week and that probably will not work in my pocket so I will probably go to IWB but first I will need to see if I like the pistol.
A funny thing about the XDs recall. A friend of mine sent both a 9mm and a 45 acp in the same day. He called to see if they received them and the lady who answered the CS line told him "probably, we received 8000 guns yesterday".
I think that the XDs was only for sale about 12 to 18 months before the recall also.
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I'm sure the Glock slim 9 will sell well.
There are people out there who treat Glocks like Pokemon - "gotta collect em all"
If Glock made Glock brand gun cleaner, and Glock brand gun lube - they'd make millions. I don't know why they haven't thought of it...
If Glock made toothpaste they'd make money on it because the Glock fan boys would rush out and buy it and post YouTube videos of themselves brushing their teeth with Glock toothpaste.
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I haven't seen anything on a single stack 9mm Glock except vague rumors. Have you heard anything official?
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I pocket carry spring, summer, and fall and 90% of the time in the winter. I just like it. My Boberg XR45s is due in next week and that probably will not work in my pocket so I will probably go to IWB but first I will need to see if I like the pistol.
Well there ya go. I am speaking from a 5'7" 200 lb, in casual work attire standpoint.
I'm sure the larger a man is the easier it would be for him to pocket carry.
The different pants make for better pocket carry.
A lower crime rate environment would make one more prepared with less gun for pocket carry.
The solo is a fine gun for self defense, but not gonna work in my pocket. I like it in a IWB.
I guess to each his own is the best motto : )
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If Glock made toothpaste they'd make money on it because the Glock fan boys would rush out and buy it and post YouTube videos of themselves brushing their teeth with Glock toothpaste.
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Lol! That's a good one. How about toilet paper? I think it would sell.
They make a great product, but I've not made it to fan boy status yet. Just like what they do.
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I haven't seen anything on a single stack 9mm Glock except vague rumors. Have you heard anything official?
Only rumors and nothing much since the SHOT Show. Back then the rumor was 9 to 10 months.
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I pocket carry spring, summer, and fall and 90% of the time in the winter. I just like it. My Boberg XR45s is due in next week and that probably will not work in my pocket so I will probably go to IWB but first I will need to see if I like the pistol.
Well there ya go. I am speaking from a 5'7" 200 lb, in casual work attire standpoint.
I'm sure the larger a man is the easier it would be for him to pocket carry.
The different pants make for better pocket carry.
A lower crime rate environment would make one more prepared with less gun for pocket carry.
The solo is a fine gun for self defense, but not gonna work in my pocket. I like it in a IWB.
I guess to each his own is the best motto : )
Josh - I have pocket carried both a PM9 and a Boberg XR9s and they are both harder to conceal than a Solo. At first they feel large but I just put them in my pocket and the second day I don't even know they are there'
I am 65 and believe me there aren't any female crotch watchers checking me out, so no one even notices in my opinion
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Lol.Are you a blue jean or slacks wearer MRC? My jeans just print terrible.
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The R9 disappears in my jeans in a DeSantis Nemesis holster, it can print in business slacks if I sit down, but I think it is the holster not the gun.
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Most people are so distracted, clueless, or otherwise wrapped up in a cloud that they wouldn't notice a tennis ball in your pocket.
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Most people are so distracted, clueless, or otherwise wrapped up in a cloud that they wouldn't notice a tennis ball in your pocket.
You're right.
I had to get my plate sticker today and you can't carry in a govt. building in Illinois and I forgot my fanny pack so I just left the R9 in the glove compartment while I got my sticker. Then I went to lunch next door, but got my R9 before I headed into the restaurant. I opened the passenger side door reached into the glove compartment and took out my R9 in the Nemesis holster and put it in my pocket. Five people were walking by me - just 3 or 4 feet away and they were oblivious.
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Lol.Are you a blue jean or slacks wearer MRC? My jeans just print terrible.
I wear blue jeans mostly but I have gone to a fuller cut because my pockets are "full" and they are more comfortable. I will go to the P380 some when I wear dress slacks just to cut the weight and printing.
A friend of mine told me he does not know how I could carry a pistol in my jean pocket. Now this guy is 6'-2" and goes about 320. His jeans are so tight he has can't hardly get his hand in his pocket. I think you could read the mint mark on a quarter in his pocket they are so tight.
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Have both the LWS 380 and two Kahrs, a P380 and a CW380. I much prefer the Kahrs. The recoil on the Seecamp is so stout as to make follow-up shots virtually meaningless. The Kahrs are much softer to shoot, give you the option of an added round, and have meaningful sights. I chose to add night sights to both of mine. To be perfectly honest, I think the CW performs as well as the P380 and you save a couple of hundred dollars.
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Well I actually decided to send the CW 380 back for a tune up.
It's been mostly flawless; however the last two times I've had it out it has not fully chambered a round here or there WITH PREMIUM AMMO. Also, not holding open on last round so I did it. Another gun going back. I guess I'm not too smooth. Hopefully I will get alot of this need to shoot out of my system and mellow out sooner than later. I know my wallet would sure appreciate it.
Anyway, even though I really like the little pistol it needs some factory tweaking after the 200 round break-in.
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All I care about is dependability - In other words, "Carry two guns"
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Well I actually decided to send the CW 380 back for a tune up.
Shocking! ;)
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Received this yesterday from Kahr and I must say it made a nice first impression just 2 days after I dropped it at FEDEX. NICE JOB KAHR.
Dear Kahr Customer,
This is an automated e-mail to acknowledge receipt of the item you returned to our customer service department. It has now been entered into our processing queue. We will ship the item back as soon as possible. However we may contact you in the meantime if we have a question or need a decision from you.
If you need to contact us please quote the case reference in the subject line.
Sincerely,
Kahr/Auto Ordnance
130 Goddard Memorial Drive
Worcester, MA 01603
E-mail Address: service@kahr.com
Phone; (508)795-3919
Fax; (508)795-7046
Automated e-mail: please do not reply to sender.
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Well I actually decided to send the CW 380 back for a tune up.
Shocking! ;)
Sorry for the surprise 😬
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Well I received a nice letter of service & 2 free clips 😊 great job Kahr. I do still need to test fire it, but it made a fast round trip
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Well I was able to run some ammo through it the other day. It ran the federal range ammo great, but I don't think it likes the buffalo bore too well. I had a couple of failures to feed with the BB. I think i will look for something else to carry in it that will be more reliable. I liked the buffalo bore because it's +p, but if the gun doesn't feed it reliably what good is it??
To Kahr's defense, they do say that some ammos don't feed as well as others.
I will say that it is as smooth of a small pistol as you could ask for.
If I can find a premium ammo that it runs flawlessly I will be 100% pleased with the little $250 wonder.
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Put another 6 rounds of buffalo bore down the pipe and had another failure to feed. No surprise.
I then found a box of Russian tulammo steel cased stuff. I ran all 50 of them as fast as I could load and pull the trigger.
Not one failure of any kind.
Now to settle in on the carry ammo.
Any suggestions?
Hydra shook, gold dots, hst?
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Put another 6 rounds of buffalo bore down the pipe and had another failure to feed. No surprise.
I then found a box of Russian tulammo steel cased stuff. I ran all 50 of them as fast as I could load and pull the trigger.
Not one failure of any kind.
Now to settle in on the carry ammo.
Any suggestions?
Hydra shook, gold dots, hst?
Josh - Check this video out. This guy's stuff is very extensive, but he does a good job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts&list=PLgNSGOEQko_MjOCGyqlMTiM2njdQQRbdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw
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Excellent review on .380 ammo.
Looks like I will be ordering up some hydra shocks.
Thanks MRC!
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I watched the two segments and walked away thinking Precision One XTP HP, not Federal Hydra Shoks, which is also fine ammo.
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I watched the two segments and walked away thinking Precision One XTP HP, not Federal Hydra Shoks, which is also fine ammo.
I agree tracker on the Precision One. I would like to try the Lehigh, but I do not carry a 380 enough to justify it.
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I know the precision one were the number one rated ammo, but they are not available and I've never heard of the smaller company before, so I thought the hornaday XT or hydra shoks were close seconds and easier to track down.
You are right though (as usual) Tracker.
I like that guys reviews. He is good.
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I've never bought from 'bangitammo" but it looks to be available there:
http://www.bangitammo.com/store/#!/380-Auto/c/8660447/inview=product25455293&offset=0&sort=normal
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I've never bought from 'bangitammo" but it looks to be available there:
http://www.bangitammo.com/store/#!/380-Auto/c/8660447/inview=product25455293&offset=0&sort=normal
Thanks for the link. It looks like it isn't the XTP HP though. Just JHP. Precision one says they are waiting on product from Hornaday.
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I noticed that it wasn't the XTP HP and wonder what they are waiting on from Hornady. I wouldn't normally fire anything from Hornady if it were free.
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I noticed that it wasn't the XTP HP and wonder what they are waiting on from Hornady. I wouldn't normally fire anything from Hornady if it were free.
I think that Hornaday must provide them with the XTP bullets. He says in the end (10 minute mark) that if you aren't comfortable with the smaller precision one company he would recommend the fiocchi (sp) or the hydra shoks. I like and trust the consistency of the hydra shok, so that combined with the fact that they are available and that both my seecamp and Kahr like them I think that's my go to.
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Oddly enough the box he shows on the video looks identical to the one on the link you sent Tracker. Hard to know if it's the same.
I probably just trust the federal hydra shok name more in the end since thousands of police have relied on them and all.
Anyway, thanks again for looking up the link Tracker.
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I agree that one has to go with what is trusted and what works with ammo. Thanks for bringing Precision One to our attention.