The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh Range Reports => Topic started by: Jack_Bauer on April 16, 2008, 11:30:16 PM

Title: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Jack_Bauer on April 16, 2008, 11:30:16 PM: I made a quick stop by the range today to make sure my new Glock 17 functioned as t should; it did. I grabbed the R9S out of my pocket and proceeded to empty the mag. Two shots then failure to feed. The round was completely seated in the mag. It hadn't moved toward the ramp. I gave the slide a pull and it slid easily into battery and I continued to shoot. I'm thinking I may have had a slight limp wrist on the shot. In previous visits I had so consciously gripped the gun like I was making lemonade I wanted to relax the grip a bit. The next 5 rounds went without a hitch. Should I be concerned? I think this was an isolated incident.

A couple of days ago I took the R9 down and relubed. I tried Tetra gun grease since it stays put longer than oil.

Here's a pic. 7 rounds at 25 feet:

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f12/P7M8/IMG00040.jpg)
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: firewalker on April 16, 2008, 11:37:32 PM: Good job shooting. I wouldnt to be to concerned as you find a grip and way to shoot your gun.
Not to hijack your thread but last night at our local IDPA, we shot a bug match afterwords. I was impressed with the ease that the R9 does at run and gun speeds. ANd no i wasent as accurate as u were. ;o)
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Robar233 on June 03, 2011, 08:54:20 AM: Fired my first formal qualification with my Robar R9 this week. 60 round course from 2-20 YARDS! The Pup was NOT cleaned prior to qualification and had been carried in a Meco pocket holster for five months. In fact it was dirty with 25 rounds. I wanted to see if it would fail. It functioned flawlessly! Passed with a 270 out of 300. I think 20 yards is beyond my ability with the Pup.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 03, 2011, 10:29:54 AM: Great info on the Robar, 233; and 60 rds. Excellent. Thanks.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: yankee2500 on June 03, 2011, 01:00:58 PM: Robar, sounds like the pup did pretty good, congrats.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 03, 2011, 02:28:49 PM: Jack, before I even got to your comment about limp wristing, that was the first thing that came to mind. The reason was because you were previously shooting a very soft shooting gun which did not require the same concentration and power of grip.
I would not worry. You nailed it.

Get it out of your head, or it will mess with you for a long time and you will lose confidence in your R9.

Shoot Straight
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Richard S on June 03, 2011, 05:27:52 PM: Quote
Jack, before I even got to your comment about limp wristing, that was the first thing that came to mind. The reason was because you were previously shooting a very soft shooting gun which did not require the same concentration and power of grip.
I would not worry. You nailed it.

Get it out of your head, or it will mess you for a long time and you will lose confidence in your R9.

Shoot Straight

Jack:

I would say that Reinz also "nailed it." In my opinion, his post is "right in the center of the 10 ring."

(Nice gouping, by the way.)
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 03, 2011, 09:32:49 PM: Quote
I made a quick stop by the range today to make sure my new Glock 17 functioned as t should; it did. I grabbed the R9S out of my pocket and proceeded to empty the mag. Two shots then failure to feed. The round was completely seated in the mag. It hadn't moved toward the ramp. I gave the slide a pull and it slid easily into battery and I continued to shoot. I'm thinking I may have had a slight limp wrist on the shot. In previous visits I had so consciously gripped the gun like I was making lemonade I wanted to relax the grip a bit. The next 5 rounds went without a hitch. Should I be concerned? I think this was an isolated incident.

A couple of days ago I took the R9 down and relubed. I tried Tetra gun grease since it stays put longer than oil.

Here's a pic. 7 rounds at 25 feet:

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f12/P7M8/IMG00040.jpg)

Jack. Reinz makes a good point. In light of that information try shooting your R9 first at the range next time; just a thought.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Robar233 on June 03, 2011, 10:40:13 PM: I forgot to mention. All magazines used had the straight magazine extensions from Yankee 2500. I have a large hand and they make all the difference in the world for me. I tried the hooked model and it did not feel as good to me as the straight.
Now that quals are done I will send them off to Robar for the old NP3.
One other post mentioned letting the pistol cool between magazines. That was not an option for me. It was non stop and the pistol was hot going into the Meco pocket holster. I even had an ammo bearer loading an empty mag while I had the other two just to speed things up. I have not found this to be a fussy pistol. Maybe the NP3 makes a big difference with this pistol?
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Joe_from_NY on June 04, 2011, 12:56:16 AM: My opinion, i would not carry that gun for self defense until at least 75-100 rounds through it without a malfunction. I would think that even a bit limp-wristed, it would partially strip the round from the magazine. With an empty chamber and full magazine, draw the slide very slowly back and see if it starts to strip a round, and feed it, even if it hangs up at the ramp. I expect it would. don't let your life or the lives of your family rely on the hope that that gun will mysteriously correct whatever caused the malfunction without attention.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: backupr9 on June 18, 2011, 04:26:57 PM: I've had an R9 for about one year. Early on had a few limp wrist type failures to feed, but carried regularly. I leave the mag loaded and carry daily. Recently went to the range for first time in months. Loaded w/Speer gold dot...light firing pin strikes and no ignition regularly! Changed to Hornady critical defense which fired but had some failure to feed. It appears that the ejected case is catching on the rim of the next one up in the magazine...not always with the mag fully loaded. I had about 100 rounds through the recoil spring, so I changed it and cleaned/lubed thoroughly. At the range, again had one failure to feed due to ejected case catching the rim of the next one in the mag. I'm afraid to carry this now and have switched to a Kimber ultra II. Could weak mag spring be a problem? Suggestions?
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: yankee2500 on June 18, 2011, 05:11:12 PM: backup, Welcome to the group and sorry to hear about the issues with the pup.
I would give Maria at the factory a call on Monday and see what she recommends.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 18, 2011, 05:14:33 PM: backupr9. Welcome to the Forum. Sorry as well that you are having those problems. John has good advice to call Maria.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 18, 2011, 06:07:33 PM: Sounds like a faulty extractor or ejector. And maybe the breechface needs polishing.

The factory will fix it in a snap.

Good Luck
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: backupr9 on June 19, 2011, 12:19:44 PM: Thanks to all. I'll give Maria a call Monday.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: backupr9 on June 22, 2011, 02:51:20 PM: Held of on call to Maria. Checked back on the FTF ammo which was NOT Spear, but Remington FMJ. Thoroughly cleaned pup again, used lubricating oil that comes with Ed Brown .45. Recoil spring had about 85 rounds through it. Invested $$$ in Winchester silvertip 115, Gold dot 124 GDHP, Federal Hydrashock JHP 124 and some leftover Hornady Critical Defense 115 FTX.

No light strikes, no primer failures, one failure to eject with the Winchester (jammed against the breech above the next round set to feed....I don't think I limp wristed it). Just finished cleaning it again...it's now rehabilitated and being carried again! ;D
John
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 22, 2011, 04:27:39 PM: Excellent, br9. You have done well. Was sorry to hear about the Winchester, though.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Z on June 22, 2011, 05:00:57 PM: I am glad all is well with th R9 now.

I have always used Speer 115GR GD without any trouble.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: backupr9 on June 22, 2011, 06:05:25 PM: Forgot, also to mention that the Speer is now my carry ammo. I'm a happy guy...thought I'd have to invest in a Solo, but already carry a Kimber Ultra CDP .45 when weather/dress permit and cherish the small size/weight of the R9. Thanks for the help to all. John
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: ACP on June 22, 2011, 08:16:24 PM: 115 GR makes no sense to me. It is too small a mass to effectively stop a bad guy, which is the primary purpose of a deep concealment pocket gun. Give me 147 GR. if I must carry a 9MM.

Many of us share the love for the .45ACP and await the R45. However, when you have a standard bullet of 230 grains to play with, I can see a lighter bullet; not so with the 9MM.

I have never experienced a FTF with 147 grain Federal Hydra Shok or Remington Golden Sabre in my Robar R9.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 22, 2011, 11:07:35 PM: Quote
115 GR makes no sense to me. It is too small a mass to effectively stop a bad guy, which is the primary purpose of a deep concealment pocket gun. Give me 147 GR. if I must carry a 9MM.

Many of us share the love for the .45ACP and await the R45. However, when you have a standard bullet of 230 grains to play with, I can see a lighter bullet; not so with the 9MM.

I have never experienced a FTF with 147 grain Federal Hydra Shok or Remington Golden Sabre in my Robar R9.

I like the way you think! :D

I have to agree on all points.

However, I think a lot of us are guilty of trying to save a few bucks on "just practice ammo" and grab the cheap 115 gr stuff.
As we all know 115 gr happens to be the "gold standard' for 9mm- nato. And one would think a semi-hand built $1000 pistol should run the stuff. But then again, think of it as "custom".

I guess I am fortunate that one of mine will eat the stuff up. I haven't tried the other one yet.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 22, 2011, 11:50:19 PM: I do like a big hunk of metal going out the barrel, for sure; however, with the R9, just settled on the 115 gr. without a glitch.

Now other calibers; usually, as big as they come! ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 23, 2011, 12:29:43 AM: Sooner or later, some company will come out with a 900 grainer and call it the KJ Special! ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 23, 2011, 12:31:23 AM: There's probably got to be a limit somewhere! ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 23, 2011, 12:44:02 AM: Not with you, I'm afraid. ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 23, 2011, 12:45:19 AM: I can see it now -

UTube - KJ- " Hold my beer and watch this...." ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 23, 2011, 12:47:55 AM: Quote
Not with you, I'm afraid. ;D

I was afraid of that too! ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 23, 2011, 12:48:35 AM: Quote
I can see it now -

UTube - KJ- " Hold my beer and watch this...." ;D

I'm going to stop at 700 gr. ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 23, 2011, 01:03:29 AM: Quote

I'm going to stop at 700 gr. ;D

Yeah, Yeah, yeah

Sounds like the words of an addict to me.

"I can stop if I want too" ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Relic on June 23, 2011, 01:05:16 AM: I might just be lucky but my R9 is flawless through 240 rounds of 115gr, 124, gr and 147gr ammo of quality from "junk" to top of the line.

Although the 115gr has less felt recoil in the R9, I prefer the 124gr and heavier bullets for carry, due to better penetration with heavier weights.

I don't normally expect instant perfection from firearms that push the size envelope. My PM9 required a few rounds of break-in before it stopped having intermittent failures. Ruger LCP was the same. PM45, P9 Covert and P3AT all worked perfectly out of the box but I still "broke them in" before I carried them.

What strikes me about the R9 is that the tolerances are tight. That means that, in all likelyhood, some guns will be on the slightly "too tight" side.
I have a routine for a marginally over-tight pistol which is so simple it sounds stupid, but it really does work well.

First I'll clear the firearm, then field strip and wipe off excess oil or grease. I don't use a solvent, just wipe it down with a clean, dry cloth, until the firearm is mostly dry. While I'm in there I inspect it for wear or drag mark. Even new pistols usually have a few rubs on the finish internally from racking or test firing. Note where these are and their general shape and size. Slide rails are a primary concern, but the top of the slide and sometimes the bottom of the dust cover are also potential drag areas. Look it over carefully.

Then reassemble and rack the slide a good 50-100 times. If the manufacturer says dry-fire is ok, then, after checking that it is unloaded, feel free to do so, again 50-100 times.
If the pistol still feels like it is dragging, rack the slide another 50-100 times.

Then field strip and note the marks, are they larger or deeper into the finish? Good, you've worn it in a bit. I've used mild abrasives to help wear in tight pistols, but do so with caution and if in doubt, talk to a gunsmith. Don't ruin a new firearm if you are unsure. It's always safe to just keep racking the slide a few more 100 times to help if polishing compound sounds frightening.

Now strip it again, clean it very thoroughly to remove any metal particles and lube per manufacturers spec's. Try to avoid greases or graphites in very tight pistols. Instead use a light gun oil and use it sparingly. Too much oil can create drag in tight areas. Try sticking two glass plates together with oil in between and see what I mean. It tight areas, less is more. Lightly oil then wipe off any excess. Now go shoot it. It's a far less frustrating and less expensive way to start the break in, and I've found it eliminates a good part of the problems with tightly made and heavily sprung small firearms.

At worst, it can't hurt and it's free to try. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 23, 2011, 01:06:13 AM: Quote

Sounds like the words of an addict to me.

;D

Probably so! ;D Somehow, there's never enough power! :D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 23, 2011, 01:11:09 AM: Quote

Probably so! ;D Somehow's there's never enough power! :D

Sounds like the proud words of Tim the Toolman Taylor - augghh - augghh -augghh- augghh! MORE POWER!

Fortunately the cartridge case can only hold so much powder. ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 23, 2011, 01:13:56 AM: True. But then you just go to whatever the next caliber that is dreamed up. ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 23, 2011, 01:21:55 AM: I hear ya Brother! :D

gotta go to work now, talk to ya tomorrow. ;)
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: yankee2500 on June 23, 2011, 01:52:30 AM: Quote

I like the way you think! :D

I have to agree on all points.

However, I think a lot of us are guilty of trying to save a few bucks on "just practice ammo" and grab the cheap 115 gr stuff.
As we all know 115 gr happens to be the "gold standard' for 9mm- nato. And one would think a semi-hand built $1000 pistol should run the stuff. But then again, think of it as "custom".

I guess I am fortunate that one of mine will eat the stuff up. I haven't tried the other one yet.

9mm NATO is 124gr

9mm NATO vs. 9mm Luger
Posted on April 3, 2009 by Caleb
Now that’s a fun topic right there – as in, what’s the difference between ammo that’s loaded to 9mm NATO pressures and ammo that’s loaded to 9mm Luger pressures? First off, you have to establish that there is a difference, because there are people out there who will fight and argue that NATO spec ammo is exactly the same as commercial 9mm Luger. It’s not, trust me. Aside from the obvious difference in bullet weight (9mm NATO is 124 grain, most commercial plinking 9mm ammo is 115 grain) rounds that are loaded to NATO spec are loaded to a higher pressure than rounds loaded to industry standard.

From Cartridges of the World, 9th Edition page 482:
Cartridge, Caliber 9mm Ball, NATO, M882

Weapon: Pistol, Automatic, Cal 9mm, M9, M11

Velocity: 1251 +/-25 fps at 16 meters
Pressure: 27,000 psi, max. avg.
Cartridge: 179 gr.
Case: 42 gr.
Bullet: 124 gr Copper Alloy
Propellant:
Brand: HPC 26
Type: Double Base Flake
Weight: 5 gr. 6 gr.
Point Ident: Plain Tip
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: ACP on June 23, 2011, 06:08:20 PM: I love the book Cartridges of the World It is a wealth of information; more than I will ever need to know but it is there if I want to read about it.

The 700 Nitro Express cartridge is beyond my comprehension but, hey, they make it.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: coyote on June 23, 2011, 07:14:51 PM: Quote
...700 Nitro Express cartridge is beyond my comprehension but, hey, they make it....

if i recall correctly from 15 years ago, the last price for a 700NE was $100 per cartridge. i imagine its gone up since.

i'll stick to 9 mike mike, thank you.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 23, 2011, 07:28:20 PM: Ah, yes! The 700 Nitro Express.

(http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss197/kjtrains/8900ftlbs.jpg)

Here's the rifle! Click on the arrow once pulled up. Watch the firing. There's a bolt action and a double barrel.

http://www.texashuntfish.com/app/forum/10507/
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: yankee2500 on June 23, 2011, 09:24:11 PM: kj I bet you can't wait for the Ruger African 700 NE pistol. ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Richard S on June 23, 2011, 09:53:21 PM: As one who has been hunting since he was nine years old, I truly believe in Robert Ruark's admonition to "use enough gun." But that 700 Nitro Express is, in my not so humble opinion, simply insane. Hunting with that thing would seem to be about as sporting as using an RPG.

I may have posted this once before, but when I think of hunting in its purest sense, this image sometimes comes to mind -- one man, one lion, one spear:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/MaasaiHuntingLion.jpg)
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 23, 2011, 10:16:14 PM: Quote
kj I bet you can't wait for the Ruger African 700 NE pistol. ;D

John. That would be some kind of gun! ;D

Quote
Quote
As one who has been hunting since he was nine years old, I truly believe in Robert Ruark's admonition to "use enough gun." But that 700 Nitro Express is, in my not so humble opinion, simply insane. Hunting with that thing would seem to be about as sporting as using an RPG.

I may have posted this once before, but when I think of hunting in its purest sense, this image sometimes comes to mind -- one man, one lion, one spear:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/MaasaiHuntingLion.jpg)

I must agree, and since this rifle is no longer made, I don't think we have to worry about how insane it is hunt with one of these.

I know they're still around and at a hefty or might I say, insane price.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: tracker on June 23, 2011, 10:20:57 PM: On the other hand maybe big guns are a phallic expression of sorts.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 23, 2011, 11:08:14 PM: Quote
Quote
On the other hand maybe big guns are a phallic expression of sorts.

I do disagree with that statement!
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: yankee2500 on June 24, 2011, 12:03:53 AM: Quote
On the other hand maybe big guns are a phallic expression of sorts.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 24, 2011, 12:13:28 AM: Quote

;D ;D ;D

I knew you would get a kick out of that, John! ;D
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: Reinz on June 24, 2011, 05:58:28 AM: Quote

9mm NATO is 124gr

9mm NATO vs. 9mm Luger
Posted on April 3, 2009 by Caleb
Now that’s a fun topic right there – as in, what’s the difference between ammo that’s loaded to 9mm NATO pressures and ammo that’s loaded to 9mm Luger pressures? First off, you have to establish that there is a difference, because there are people out there who will fight and argue that NATO spec ammo is exactly the same as commercial 9mm Luger. It’s not, trust me. Aside from the obvious difference in bullet weight (9mm NATO is 124 grain, most commercial plinking 9mm ammo is 115 grain) rounds that are loaded to NATO spec are loaded to a higher pressure than rounds loaded to industry standard.

From Cartridges of the World, 9th Edition page 482:
Cartridge, Caliber 9mm Ball, NATO, M882

Weapon: Pistol, Automatic, Cal 9mm, M9, M11

Velocity: 1251 +/-25 fps at 16 meters
Pressure: 27,000 psi, max. avg.
Cartridge: 179 gr.
Case: 42 gr.
Bullet: 124 gr Copper Alloy
Propellant:
Brand: HPC 26
Type: Double Base Flake
Weight: 5 gr. 6 gr.
Point Ident: Plain Tip

Thanks for the correction!

So this makes me wonder, is 124 nato the gold standard of 9mm now or is 115 still the gold standard ?
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: ACP on June 24, 2011, 10:34:46 AM: Thanks for posting the 700 Nitro in action. Cartridges of the World addresses this cartridge as "overkill" and you can see why.

I do not begrudge powerful cartridges; it's just not my taste. My favortie pistol and revolver cartridges, respectively, are "normal"; .45ACP and 44 Special.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: kjtrains on June 24, 2011, 10:47:20 AM: The overkill factor could be one of the reasons the 700 Nitro is no longer made and I read somewhere that economic conditions of the times also could have had a presence in discontinuing the production.

This gun cost a huge amount to make and just was not feasible to continue making.
Title: Re: Third Trip, First Hiccup
Post by: ACP on June 24, 2011, 05:01:03 PM: Good point. Economic times have found their way into other realms of my collecting interests, to include antiques, pottery and fine art.

The collecting world is usually informed by a simple premise that "quality sells", even in a down market. The reason is not difficult to understand; witness gold which is a hedge against the failing dollar.

As I understand it, (and I believe multiple references have been made on this string), a double rifle is one of the most expensive firearms on the market.

While you can get one cheap, between $25,000 and $50,000, from Beretta or Merkel, if you go for the big time British double rifle (Purdey, Griffen & Howe) you can easily spend $100,000.