The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: jarcher on March 23, 2005, 09:28:50 PM
-
I finally got to shoot my new R9s today. I ran about 60 rounds of three types of ammo through it. I experienced many failures, pretty much all failures to feed, one of which was extremely difficult to cure.
First, I tried American Eagle 147gr flat nose ammunition. This failed to feed about 1 time out of 5 to 7. The failure mode was unusual and I had never seen it before. It looked like the round, after failing to feed, was nearly standing upright out of the magazine.
Next was American Eagle 115gr ball ammo. This worked pretty well, but still failed occasionally.
Finally, and most important, was Winchester RA9T, which is 147gr JHP self defense ammo. This ammo works flawlessly in every pistol I have tried it in, until today. This failed much less than the flat nose ammo, but much more than the ball ammo. On one round, while loading the pistol, there was a failure to feed with this ammo. I could pull the slide back, but I could not get the round to come out of the chamber and I could not, of course, get the magazine removed. With great difficulty, I was able to hold the slide back with one hand while freeing the round with the other hand.
This was the first ammo I ever put through this pistol and I bought it new. It was dirty when I received it so I assume it was tested at the factory. Does anyone know what ammo the factory tests with?
Does anyone else use Winchester RA9T? I am wondering if this pistol in general is very ammo sensitive or if mine just has some issues. I see you guys use a lot if 115gr GDHP, which is fine ammo, but I think this pistol should work with any quality ammo. I expected this pistol to work out of the box, but does it need a break in period? Needless to say, after $950.00, I am not very pleased.
And yes, I know how to shoot a pistol, even a small light one.
I plan to carefully clean it tonight and I can try it again in a few days. Before I do, I would appreciate any suggestions. I’ll probably call the factory tomorrow as well, if I get a chance, to see what they think.
Thanks...
Jim
-
I, too, have been less than pleased with the reliability of the gun. Gold Dots seem to work well -- especially 115's. Bit disappointed that FMJ's sometimes fail to feed well.
-
Jim ... take a peek at this link - a page on my FAQ site
http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/rohrbaugh/basefile/tumbling.htm
It addresses the fact that tumbling can occur but also - you'll see a pic of different ammo. Note the (to me) quite large spread in OAL. I get the impression that shorter rounds can be more problematic. The two Gold Dots - 115 and 124 are what I find flawless for function.
I do have issues with some FMJ but again - they usually seem to be the shorter rounds. I do think this can be a factor.
I guess in theory this gun should digest anything and everything - but it does seem not to like some. With yours, it does seem - superficially right now - it is more fussy than I'd expect. Speak to Eric and give him a run-down of your problems.
-
Thanks R9Carry...
My theory was also that the shorter rounds failed. The flat nose were very short, but looking at your web site, the ammo I was using - the Ranger 147gr SXT, is the second longest round. There is no GDHP there, do you have any idea how long that round is?
-
According to my calipers my GDHP 115 gr rounds are 1.125" long.
-
Sorry Jim - forgot that pic had no GD's ... FB is about on the nail - in fact yeah - I had ''mic'd'' one at 1.124" ... pretty much amongst the longest round.
I think Rangers fed OK - just was not so impressed with apparent terminal performance IIRC. Either test #2 or Test #3 has pics of the bullets, out of wet pack.
Another point BTW - that I made was - some bullets seemed awful ''marginal'' on dia. I mean - 9mm's are conventionally .356 and yet - many bullets were well down from this - which affects IMO the engraving with rifling. Tho that is not in the area of feeding, per your problems.
-
Thanks everyone. I didn't see any evidence of tumbling, except maybe on just 1 hole. Recoil was heavy but manageable and accuracy, at first glance, seemed okay. I was mostly preoccupied with the poor feeding.
I'll call Eric and see what he says. I can find some GDHP to try. All I have on hand is the +P GD, so I need to order some.
-
I called down to NY, and spoke to a woman who I assume was Maria, although I didn't ask. She imediately said I should use GDHP. I asked her of the pistol was designed around any particular round, and she said she woul dhave to ask someone to call me back.
She also said they have all been sick, so the call won;t be until tomorrow or Monday. That's fine, I can wait.
Where do you guys get your GDHP? All thre local places have only the +P stuff...
-
The R-9 runs on very tight tolerances. The tighter the gun, the more ammo sensitive it may be. "Loose" guns like Glocks tend to be more forgiving with ammo types.
The recommended round is the Speer Gold Dot JHP -- in 115 or 124g varieties. This is a very popular round and is widely used in law enforcement agencies. All the agencies around me use Gold Dots.
The gun was not designed around a particular round, but the factory now recommends Gold Dots. Certainly there are other expensive guns that are designed around particular rounds. The Seecamp comes to mind -- which was originally recommened for use only with Winchester Silvertips.
Eric is firmly of the opinion that this gun is a sports car -- not a family truckster. He recommends using only premium JHP ammo. You wouldn't put 87 octane in your Ferrari, and there is no real need to run FMJ target ammo in your R-9.
The factory will certainly help you, but try the Gold Dots before you allow yourself to be disappointed with your purchase.
My gun has never hiccuped on anything -- but all I have fed it is Gold Dot JHPs (115g and 124g) and about 50 Winchester White Box FMJs. The Win White Box worked for me, but others have had issues with it and Eric doesn't recommend it.
Hang in there, Jarcher. It will all work out -- I promise. ;)
-
Eric is firmly of the opinion that this gun is a sports car -- not a family truckster. He recommends using only premium JHP ammo. You wouldn't put 87 octane in your Ferrari, and there is no real need to run FMJ target ammo in your R-9.
The factory will certainly help you, but try the Gold Dots before you allow yourself to be disappointed with your purchase.
I would just run FMJ ammo for practice, as it's lots cheaper than quality self defense ammo. I used good quality FMJ and, by the way, it worked better than the JHP I used. The flat nose rounds failed miserably, but I am happy to use ball instead for range practice.
I agree that GDHP is great quality stuff. I used the Winchester RA9T because I prefer a heavier bullet, especially from a shorter barrel. Balistics testing shows this round to do as well as +P and +P+ rounds on both penetration and expansion and, since I can't use +P in the R9, I decided to try the RA9T.
I'm not opposed to using GDHP, as it also tests extremely well, although the standard pressure GDHP does not do as well as the RA9T. Still, the difference is not enough to get excited over.
I did some web searching, but everyone seems to have the +P variety of GDHP. Can you point me to a source of standard pressure GDHP? I asked Maria and she referred me to the company they buy it from, but that company won't sell direct. No one here in RI stocks this stuff.
-
Haven't checked Jim - but I'd feel sure Ammoman could stock it. IIRC http://www.ammoman.com/
And maybe - run a search thru Google too.
-
Yeah, Ammoman is where I usually buy stuff. They have the 115gr reclassified GDHP, which I guess is good enough for testing. Frankly, I have never had any GD reclassified ammo fail, so I might even carry that if it tests out okay in the R9.
Thanks for the reply.
-
I just got a call from Mike at Rohrbaugh. He called and assured me the issue will be resolved, and I am confident it will be.
We discussed the possible causes as a magazine failure (which I had not thought of) and also possibly maybe an issue with the barrel.
He said if I want to I can do some more testing over the weekend then follow up with Carl early next week. I promised if I do to keep careful track of what fails how many times, and I also agreed to send them a few rounds back with the pistol. Mike said that typically the magazines are fitted to the pistols, so even if it turns out that one of the magazines is the issue the pistol is going back.
I also have some 115gr GDHP ordered, so I might just wait for that to arrive before I do the testing.
I think late tonight I'll also measure the ammo I was using and post the diameter and OAL here, just in case anyone is interested.
So we're on the road to recovery!
-
Not to be critical, but why not use the recommended
ammo in the first place?
-
Not to be critical, but why not use the recommended
ammo in the first place?
For a few reasons. First, I didn't know there was, and in fact I don't think there is, an officially recommended ammo. I have learned that Rohrbaugh tests with GDHP, which is high quality self defense ammo and is very popular with forum members. But the pistol was not specifically designed around this and probably should be able to digest a wider selection of quality ammo.
That said, the main reason is because I had a bunch of Winchester RA9T on hand. It is the only standard pressure 9mm SD I do have on hand. It is extremely high quality ammo and does extremely well in lab testing. This standard pressure round performs as well as or better than other SD HP ammo that is +P and +P+, but with substantially less recoil. Additionally, heavier bullets tend to perform better from short barrels than lighter bullets.
To me, all this made the RA9T the perfect ammo for the R9, at least from a theoretical standpoint.
Next, there is the issue of practice. SD ammo is expensive. I like to practice with my carry gun regulary, and while it is good to shoot what you carry, the cost can be a bit high. So I wanted to shoot range ammo. I bought some American Eagle 147gr from Ammoman, but I didn't realize at the time it was flat nose. Although, had I known, I would have bought it anyhow, assuming it would not be a problem.
Carl phoned me today and told me the flat nose won’t work, which I can understand. That does not bother me at all. He just wanted to discuss the situation and let me know they would get a resolution. He didn’t sound well at all and I think he needed to be in bed instead of on the phone, so I especially appreciate that he called.
I ordered some 115gr GDHP (reclassified) from Ammoman, and I’ll run that through my R9 when it comes. I’ll let everyone know how I make out.
-
Jarcher -- a call from THE head man. Not bad. Should inspire confidence.
Just so you know though -- its Karl with a "K." German all the way. ;D
-
Jarcher, I'm sure you will be pleased with the performance of your R9s when you get your gold dots... I ordered mine from Ammo Man also and have had no problem with them nor the gun... Please let us know how your gun performs with the G.D. Thanks, Jim
-
Here is the latest…
After my box of 115gr GDHP arrived, I sat a round next to a round of Winchester RA9T and compared them by eye. These rounds look nearly identical. By eye, you can not see a difference in dimensions. The RA9T has a slightly deeper cavity and very slightly deeper cuts in the bullet. I also have some old Winchester Silvertip (part number X9MMSHP). I broke out my digital micrometer and did some measuring:
Round primer crimp Length
width width
115gr GDHP .3875 .3765 1.115
Win RA9T .386 .3765 1.115
WIN SHP .388 .3765 1.0885
I was fairly discouraged to see that there were no significant differences between the dimensions of the RA9T and the GDHP.
As it turns out, I was able to make it to the range tonight! I didn’t have a lot of time so I didn’t get to do as through a test as I would have liked, but I did make notes. My testing consisted of firing a number of 5 round magazines and tracking failures. I also tried both magazines.
First, I loaded the original magazine (the one I used last time) with the GDHP. I fired all 5 rounds in fairly rapid succession with no failures. I was pretty excited by this! I then reloaded the magazine and fired, but this time I experienced a failure to load, the same type of failure from my last range trip – on the third round. I cleared the malfunction and fired the last three rounds without trouble. I then loaded 5 more rounds and again, I had a failure to load on the third round. I cleared the malfunction and fired the last three rounds without failure.
At this point, I set that magazine aside and took out the other one, which I had never used before. With this magazine, I was able to fire three 5 round magazines of GDHP with no failures.
I next switched the ammo to the RA9T. The first thing I noticed was that the recoil was significantly reduced from that of the GDHP. I fired all 5 rounds without a failure. I reloaded the magazine. This time, a failure to load on the 3rd round again. This one may have been my fault, as I tried to see what would happen if I held the trigger back. I think I felt the gun get lose in my hand, although I am not sure. I cleared the malfunction and fired the remaining three rounds.
I then fired three more 5 round magazines of RA9T, with only 1 additional failure. Again, it was on the 3rd round in the magazine. So that’s 2 failures in 5 magazines of RA9T.
Then, just for the heck of it, I fired two 5 round magazines of Winchester Silvertips with no failures. The Silvertips were 115gr and had recoil comparable to the RA9T.
Each failure was identical. The round was half out of the magazine and half in the chamber, with the slide stuck half closed. It almost seemed like the nose was too high entering the throat, but this was very hard to tell.
A quick assumption to draw from this is that using the second magazine with 115gr GDHP would solve the problem, but I don’t feel there is enough data to support that conclusion yet. A few things were different this time. First, the pistol was lubed with TW25B instead of super lube, like it came from the factory. This is probably not a factor since the lube didn’t change across magazines.
The next thing is that the magazine of course changed. I probably should have switched back to that first magazine with GDHP to see if the failures continued. Maybe the next trip.
Also, the RA9T had a noticeable lower recoil. This could indicate that maybe the recoil spring is a bit too powerful for the RA9T. This is a complete guess, but maybe the slide does not cycle back as far or for as long, causing the cartridge ram to engage the top cartridge differently.
Given the nearly identical dimensions of the GDHP and the RA9T its very difficult to see why one should work while the other fails strictly from a dimensional standpoint. There probably is a charge difference, which why I suspect the spring weight. I didn’t try the second spring.
I’m not sure if this is going to help Karl or Mike diagnose the issue. There may also be a combination of problems, such as a bad magazine and some issue with the chamber.
So that’s the latest installment. Of course, this trip was much better than the last, and I am hoping that this is just a minor fix. I’ll keep everyone posted as developments occur.
-
>>Hi jarcher...
I have been following this thread with interest. On this subject... I think you will find this forum, and the special web site set up by Chris, to be about as informative on issues of the R9 as any resource out there! If it has happened to an R9...it was likely discussed here at one time or another, and there are a number of knowledgeable and helpful R9 owners around here. My point being...you might want to search the achieves for issues of interest to you, including the present concern.
A side note... You seem quite well versed on guns in general, but I would like to raise an issue which has troubled other knowledgeable R9 owners. Has to do with changing lubes...bottom line - the guys at the shop recommend the use of Superlube, and for this particular gun, I have yet to hear of anything that works better. I would suggest you stick with Superlube at least through this period of testing so that you can be comparing apples to apples with folks around here and back at the Rohrbaugh shop. And bear in mind that a liberal use of this lube is recommended, especially on the slide and rails. Take this for what it's worth - free advise.
Meanwhile, it's good to have you around and I am enjoying this thread a lot. Keep up the good work and enjoy...!...TW<<
-
A side note... You seem quite well versed on guns in general, but I would like to raise an issue which has troubled other knowledgeable R9 owners. Has to do with changing lubes...bottom line - the guys at the shop recommend the use of Superlube, and for this particular gun, I have yet to hear of anything that works better. I would suggest you stick with Superlube at least through this period of testing so that you can be comparing apples to apples with folks around here and back at the Rohrbaugh shop. And bear in mind that a liberal use of this lube is recommended, especially on the slide and rails. Take this for what it's worth - free advise.
Hi TW, thanks for the reply. You raise a good point about switching more than one thing at a time. Still, TW25B is a high quality gun lube. Also, my first range trip was with the gun straight from the dealer. I had broken it down, just to see how it's done, and it was well lubed with super lube. It actually worked much better with the TW25B, although I think the lube had nothing to do with it.
To be frank, if this gun were really so sensitive that it worked with only one type of lube and one type of cartridge, then it's not the gun for me. However, I don't think that is the situation. It's clearly a high quality pistol that's well designed and built.
I spoke with Karl today. He actually told me that they test with CCI Blazer, not GDHP. Additionally, he said that the TW25B should be fine, and that the pistol should not be so ammo sensitive that it only works with Blazer.
For my part, I do understand, as Karl said, that this pistol needs quality factory ammo. I would never consider feeding it anything else. Actually, I treat all my pistols that way. Factory, quality ammo only. Karl said that WWB ammo won't work well, and I can see why. Too much variation round to round in charge and dimensions.
Additionally, I understand and agree that this is not a gun to spend a day shooting at the range and that, as it gets shot, because there is no escape for the dirt and crud, that a failure becomes more likely as more rounds are expended. Still, this should not happen after 8 rounds, and Karl agreed with that as well.
Anyhow, we agreed that the issue the pistol had is most likely a magazine issue, but he asked me to send the pistol, both magazines, and 25 rounds of each type of ammo (RA9T and GDHP) to him for testing. I'll box it tonight and get it shipped tomorrow.
More to come...
-
Jarcher - thanks for this thread. A couple weeks back I went back and forth between buying a Kahr PM9 or a Rohrbaugh. Wound up with the PM9 which has functioned flawlessly from the first round, regardless of what I feed it. It has quickly become my favorite all time carry and has earned my trust after about 300 (again - flawless) rounds. However, I still had this nagging urge to order an R9. You can never have too many 9mm laying around, can you?! But your discussion has convinced me to save the $900.00 or so bucks and the aggravation. Good luck on your venture with this new piece. If it happens to win the "agggravation contest" and you're back in the market for another "small" 9mm, check out the PM9.
-
roadking,
While I am glad to hear that you have acquired something that seems to work well for you, I am also sorry that it was not the R9. IMHO, it is a shame that you were not able to base your purchase decision on the significantly high percentage or R9 owners that are very satisified, but rather the few who are not, for whatever reason.
I understand that everyone's CCW weapon choice can be a rather "personal experience", but given my own experience, -and it's just my opinion, I think you are missing out on a fantastic piece of engineering and workmanship. I carry my R9 every day and don't think twice about reliability.
Again, glad to hear you have something to keep you and yours safe. :)
-
Roadking,
Not to start a battle with you (of course, as Admin, I always win anyway... :P), but you shouldn't base purchase decisions or justifications on Internet chatter.
Here is just a few of the results of a quick search on two forums for PM-9 info -- including a "Kaboom:"
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=72516&highlight=pm-9
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=39340&highlight=pm-9
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352683&highlight=pm9
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=354648&highlight=pm9
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=319140&highlight=pm9
Do these posts convince you to sell your PM-9? Probably not. Just like an isolated problem or two with an R-9 don't cause me any heartache about my gun which has been 100% for me.
If the PM-9 fits your needs, that is great for you. But don't then justify your purchase by pointing to a thread here describing some teething problems with a new gun.
Best of luck with your Kahr. I predict you will eventually own an R-9, but what do I know? ;)
-
>>jarcher...
Some thoughts and a question... Of everything you described of your shooting sessions the thing that stands out to me the most is the fact every one of your failures happened on the third round of given magazines...!!.!
More so than the physical structure of the various bullet designs, this third round issue leads me to believe your problems might have to do with a progressive issue with each shot fired resulting in that third round not cycling properly...if that makes sense to you. In other words, the first and second shots might position the third round in the mag to somehow come out of alignment resulting in that round not chambering. Perhaps a stronger mag or recoil spring...??
Regarding the possibility of problem magazines as mentioned by Karl - what is it about the mags that Karl thinks might be a problem...? The one thing about possible mag problems which some of us have looked at is the gap between the mag lips at the narrowest point. Ideal seems to be ~ 0.320". I own seven R9 mags which came in with widths ranging from 0.314" to 0.321". Through Eric I was told the margin for error on a good mag was 0.005"...TW<<
-
Gator
A very good response to Roadking. I wonder if he will be called by Kahr management in the event of a small problem with his PM 9?
-
Well, I just wrote a nice letter and packaged up some test ammo, as Karl requested. Enough procrastinating. My new toy makes it’s trip home to NY tomorrow. I just have to find the right size box...
-
Good luck, I'm sure your problem can and will be resolved.
-
Hi All...
Here is the latest. I just got a call from Eddy and Karl. Of course, the phone chose to ring right as I had a handful of peanuts in my mouth. Since I was expecting an important call I scooped up the phone and mumbled “eloowww (krunch) Diimmm (krunch) Charcherrr (krunch krunch).” Eddy said it was Eddy from Rohrbaugh and I said “Owh, (krunch) hhiighhh (krunch krunch).” I hope they didn’t think me too rude. Anyhow, I explained about the peanuts and then Eddy put Karl on.
By now I had pretty much swallowed the peanuts, so at least I could speak normally to Karl. Karl explained that they did some grinding here and some polishing there, and now my pistol is up to the latest revision. He said it ate two magazines of each of the two round types I sent, which was Winchester RA9T (147gr) and Speer 124gr GDHP. He also fired some of their Blazer they test with.
Bottom line, Karl said it is “running like a top” and they are going to get it back to me quickly. I can’t wait to get it beck, especially since Kevin’s holster arrived yesterday and I need to see how well it fits! I’ll get it to the range this week and if it still fails, then that’s my fault and I’ll have to learn to shoot it.
So it looks like this will all have a happy ending, and just in time for the pocket carry weather here in New England. I’ll let everyone know how it shoots.
-
Sounds good! :)
Hopefully the tuning should have kwelled any lil' gremlins and all will be good. Sounds like enough testing done to prove that pup and hope it'll be as good for you.
(Ever tried sneezing halways thru chewing peanuts?? And forgetting to place hand in the way?? ;D ;D )
-
Well, I took the R9s back to the range today to try out the fixes. I was shooting Speer Gold Dot 115gr standard pressure ammo. The pistol came back from Rohrbaugh cleaned and lubed, so I have not broken it down since it came back.
Mixed results today. The first magazine had a failure to feed on the third round. I thought that was very strange. What is it about the third round? I shot several more magazines and on average got the same type of failure about every 1.5 magazines. I took a close look at the jam. I should have thought to bring my digital camera, but I will next time. Anyhow, a close look seemed to hint that the primer ridge of the round being fed was getting stuck in the notch right in front of the primer of the round below it. The round was half out of the magazine, half in the chamber, just like before.
I had an inspiration and dropped the mag. The instant I released the magazine catch, the slide slammed closed. I was able to repeat this failure twice more and execute the same fix – dropping the mag – each time.
I then remembered something we used to do in the army with the M16 magazines. After loading them, we would tap the back edge of them firmly on a table or the ground. This was to seat the ammo at the back of the magazine.
So I tried this. I got through 7 magazines with no problem. At that point, I had decided that this was enough for one range session. Next time, I’ll keep more careful track and see. Tonight there will be a good cleaning and maybe another range trip on Wednesday.
Since Karl told me their opinion is that the pistol is fine, I tend to believe that the pistol really is fine. He tested 4 magazines with the ammo I provided, which was Winchester RA9T and Speer GDHP, both JHP rounds.
So I accept that I may be shooting it incorrectly, but still, a failure to feed is usually not a shooter problem. A failure to extract is. And why did I suddenly get through 7 magazines if it is my fault? I also know that JHP rounds tend to be shorter than the Blazer FMJ rounds that Rohrbaugh tests with. If tapping the magazines after loading reliably solves my issue, I’ll be happy with that. I just wonder if this is a fix that can work when magazines stay loaded over time.
If the problem is my technique, that may be harder to solve. The gun is not designed for a lot of shooting, as Karl says, so I am not going to get a lot of practice with it. If I have to grip it exactly right each time I shoot it I am concerned that, in a stressful situation, I won’t grip it right when I need to most, and it might jam. If this is the case, this might not be the pistol for me.
Maybe one or two more range sessions will tell.
-
Hm, also, maybe the magazine springs will weaken a bit if I leave the mags loaded (which I would do normally). If the mag springs were a bit weaker the round might be less pront to get trapped in the mag as the cartridge ram tries to scoop it forward...
-
I don't think the mag springs need to be worried about too much - tho periodical empty, relax spring and recharge can be helpful I think It also allows one to see that nothing is holding up mag follower.
Just a thought - something you can check easily - if you go to FAQ site I have pics of magazine in pieces. Dismantle each and with everything out - run follower up and down - no spring. Just a means to ensure there is no foreign matter or burr - that just might make it snag. Hopefully that will simply prove no problems.
Tapping the mag is maybe a good practice to adopt. With IDPA I tend to whack a mag's rear surface against my thigh... not a bad precaution.
Not sure of OAL on FMJ blazers but the 115 and 124 JHP GD's were IIRC an OAL of approx 1.124 or so - some other ammo was most definitely shorter - and I got impression that shorter ammo was both more inclined to allow a malf' - as well as being more likely to lead to rounds having a tumble tendency. Hydrashocks measure considerably shorter BTW.
I would expect the gun should be A1 - but being a thorobred it can be a bit picky it seems at times - until grip, ammo selection etc is all ideal.
I'll be putting some thru mine again soon I expect - and will watch carefully re mag aspects.
-
>>Chris...
For the fun of it I just measured a handful of .115 CCI Blazer FMJ which I got from AMMOMAN.COM a while back...also measured some .115 GDHP from same source. I didn't have a fancy digi micrometer like the one jarcher used (and is probably more accurate than my tool)...had some regular old dial calipers, and there was a difference measured between the two...which could be either the calipers or ammo, go figure. For instance = jarcher measured OAL of GDHP at 1.115", while I got 1.122". On the Blazer ammo I got an average of 1.150" OAL = nice and long at any rate...TW<<
-
TW - I wonder whether there are any batch variations - guess there will be some - tho small it would be hoped. Your 1.122 is pretty much along with my 1.124 .. so pretty close. The 1.150 tho for FMJ - sounds good - 1.169 is a quoted OAL for ball ammo - seems like not much around these days that is not on short side.
I certainly think the pup prefers the longer rounds.
-
R9Scarry, It does seem that the longer round heads for hole better and doesn't stand up like the shorter round and catch the slide. Tom
-
Another range trip. 4 magazines, 6 or 7 failures to feed. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm open to suggestions.
:'(
-
Call Rohrbaugh and tell them about problems and send it to them. Tom
-
Call Rohrbaugh and tell them about problems and send it to them.
Tom, it just came back from Rohrbaugh. They said it is fine.
Has anyone else had this issue? I have tried grippng it hard, making sure my wrist is locked and so on. Today, it even did this with FMJ ammo.
-
Puzzling in the extreme - just wish I could be there and do some comparisons - try yours - you try mine - various rounds etc. So hard to decide what's wrong from a distance!
-
>>jarcher...
Where are you located...? Perhaps he/she is near to another R9 owner who can help here...?...TW<<
-
That's a great idea. I'm in Rhode Island and I'm willing to do some driving. If someone else could fire it, and I could fire theirs, that would sure tell us if it's me or thr gun...
-
Jar, I'm in Maryland on the coast, long drive. I will have two to compare to. Did you replace your original mags because I have one mag that I know causes hang ups?
-
>>I live in Northern Virginia, have two guns and seven mags to compare with...TW<<
-
Thanks guys... I think VA and MD are a bit far though. I could fly down, but that seems like a bit much to test a firearm. I greatly appreciate the offers.
-
>>Anybody here with an R9 from New York state, or Eastern Pennsylvania - someone close to Rhode Island...willing to meet jarcher at a range to compare R9 notes and shooting techniques...??????? Somebody...?...TW<<
-
He's close to the Rohrbaugh factory, drive it down the and shoot it.
-
Newt, Now that is a great idea! Tom
-
He's close to the Rohrbaugh factory, drive it down the and shoot it.
That IS a good idea, but I wouldn't just drive over and pop in...or expect to, anyway.
I would suggest you call Maria, and humbly present your story. Maybe ask for Karl or Eric to call you back. Tell them you have not been able to determine if the problem is you or the gun and don't know what else to do...perhaps this gun just isn't meant to be for you...but before you get rid of it you are wondering if it might be possible to bring the gun to them and have them watch you shoot it...?
In reality this might be asking a lot of these guys because they really are not set up to deal with retail issues like this. But then these are not ordinary guys, and in the name of customer satisfaction AND trying to better understand a problem a customer is having with this gun...they may be open to this idea...? Worth a try...TW<<
-
Sound advice TW Tom
-
He's close to the Rohrbaugh factory, drive it down the and shoot it.
I actually thought of that, but didn't really look into it because I don't think I can legally bring a pistol into New York. The FOPA allows me to pass through a state with the pistol locked up in the trunk, as long as I am legal at both ends of my trip. Don't I need some kind of license in NY to possess a pistol?
-
If that is a problem you could ship it and follow it
up with a visit.
-
I want to the rabge again today and since I was in a good mood I brought the R9s along just for the heck of it. I recently bought a new type of ammo I had not tried before. Blazer brass 115gr. It's made by CCI but it has, as it's name implies, brass casing instead of aluminum.
While truing it in my Sig 239 I noticed that it had a fairly light recoil for a 115gr round. I loaded some in to the R9s and put several magazines thoough without a hitch!
Then I loaded some more RA9T - the Winchester JHP SD ammo I like - and fired 14 rounds again without a hitch!
If it was just the new ammo making the pistol happy I could understand, but all of a sudden it ate my faviroite SD ammo with no problems, even though on the last range trip I had nothing but problems.
I can't figure this thing out. Maybe it likes to be warm?
-
Maybe the R9 liked your new grip!!! Tom
-
Maybe the R9 liked your new grip!!! Tom
;) ;D
-
Hey Jarcher, I'm in CT., I'll be around this weekend, after that I'm in Florida for 3 weeks. If you can meet this weekend I may be able to do a comparison with you and your R9.
-
Guys, I didn't change my grip.
-
Hey Jarcher, I'm in CT., I'll be around this weekend, after that I'm in Florida for 3 weeks. If you can meet this weekend I may be able to do a comparison with you and your R9.
Hey, thanks! Where in CT? I have a CT carry permit so this is great! Sorry for the delayed reply, I just saw your reply now. You can email me directly at jim@archer.net and I'm happy to supply my phone number via direct email.
Can we do Sunday?
Thanks again!
Jim
-
Hey Jarcher, the place I would have gone to is closed on Sundays. I'm leaving for Florida on Tuesday, I'll be back June 6th, we can do it sometime after that. I have a place in Stamford, the place I go to is Shooting Sports in Norwalk.
I haven't had too many problems with my pistol, I've noticed however that at or towards the end of my shooting session when my hand tends to be more tired, I start to get some failures to feed. Not too many though.
Even if you figure out your problem, maybe we can still get together and compare the pistols and stuff.
-
Even if you figure out your problem, maybe we can still get together and compare the pistols and stuff.
Sounds great, thanks very much! Have a good trip and I look forward to meeting you early June.
-
Sounds great, thanks very much! Have a good trip and I look forward to meeting you early June.
>>And once again, The Rohrbaugh Forum succeeds in putting together people and pistols towards the cause of better understanding, using, and promoting the AMAZING R9 Semi Auto...! **Clap, Clap, Clap**...TW<<
-
I shot my R9s for the first time today. Overall, it was a great expereince and I understand why others have made comments regarding the unlikelihood of firing the R9 a lot. It's a small gun with a serious cartridge and I quit after a half box of ammo.
Of the 25 rounds fired I did have one cartidge fail. It is not unlike what others have experienced; the bullet head jammed against the feed ramp interface and the slide ran only half way home.
I was using 115 gr. American Eagle FMJ and will get some of the ammo recommended on this forum for home use. I would rather experience a jam at the range than in a real situation against a bad guy.
-
ACP - check out my FAQ site and the links to ammo tests - or just go get some Speer Gold Dots! 115's or 124's - both seems emminently ideal. Plus I like the expansion consistency and characteristics.
Glad you had a good session - doesn't need too much ammo to feel enough is enough eh! ;D
-
Chris,
Yeah, it was a handful and my hand hurt, (in a very good way), after a half box. I decided to give my hand a rest with my 1911.
Thanks for the information, to others on the website as well, regarding Gold Dots.
I get it but my guy has to order standard velocity Gold Dots as he only stocks +P.
-
>>ACP...
Another good round for the R9 is .115gr. CCI Blazer with Brass cashings and FMJ head. This is what they test the guns with at the factory, and it actually feels even lighter recoil than Winchester White Box stuff of same setup.
Probably your cheapest and easiest method of buying both the Blazer and Speer GDHP is through Ammoman.com .
Enjoy, and be safe...!...TW<<
-
TW - question.
I am open to correction but as I remember, I had thought Eric said they used Blazer with aluminum cases! I recall something about Blazer brass showing a poor (unsharp) relief in the rim and so extraction issies.
I do know the Blazer has the same Speer bullets and so is from that angle excellent. I have fired aluminum case GD's with great success.
So - need to clarify here - as my memory ain't the most reliable. Anyone else too remember on this?.
-
TW - question.
I am open to correction but as I remember, I had thought Eric said they used Blazer with aluminum cases! I recall something about Blazer brass showing a poor (unsharp) relief in the rim and so extraction issies.
I do know the Blazer has the same Speer bullets and so is from that angle excellent. I have fired aluminum case GD's with great success.
So - need to clarify here - as my memory ain't the most reliable. Anyone else too remember on this?.
>>Chris...
My recollection says go with brass, brass...and that's what I've used with good success. So unless someone around here with a "younger" memory can clarify...I guess one of us will need to remember to run that one by Eric or Maria one of these days.
It sure would be nice if the Rohrbaugh folks would once again start communicating with e-mail...would make things like the current question such a breeze to address...! Such is life **TW mumbles under breath about frickin lowlife screwing things up**
-
I recall Karl telling me they test wqith Blazer, but I don't recall if he said brass or aluminum. Does it really matter? Is anyone here going to carry FMJ range ammo of any type for self defense purposes? I think the only tests that matter are those with the SD ammo that will be carried.
-
Yes but - the aluminum stuff I tested WAS SD - it was the Speer God Dot bullets - either 115 or 124.
Anyways, I reckon as soon as TW or I have a chance we'll check this out. Perhaps anyone able to go to Water & Wings shoot can ask Eric then - only coupla weeks.
-
Yes but - the aluminum stuff I tested WAS SD - it was the Speer God Dot bullets - either 115 or 124.
Anyways, I reckon as soon as TW or I have a chance we'll check this out. Perhaps anyone able to go to Water & Wings shoot can ask Eric then - only coupla weeks.
The Blazer stuff I've tested was round ball (same as Rohrbaugh factory uses, I think...but need to verify)...TW<<
-
Yes but - the aluminum stuff I tested WAS SD - it was the Speer God Dot bullets - either 115 or 124.
Ah, okay. I didn't know there was any Blazer JHP ammo. Where do you get this?
-
Forget where I got it - most likely a True Value store in the area - saw it and snapped it up last year. The box end info might help.
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/img_assd2/blazer-9mm-jhp-722-s.jpg)
-
jarcher,
Have the demons been exorcised from your R9 or are you still having problems?
I'm curious because I'm having very similar problems and I'm not positive, but I think all the failures have been on the 3 round.
Bill
-
jarcher,
Have the demons been exorcised from your R9 or are you still having problems?
Hi Bill...
Well, I must confess I have not been to the range pretty much all summer. I carry the R9s on occasion on the theory that I will get at least one shot off if I need to. I should get to the range though. This weekend os the club field day, so range closed, but maybe mid next week I can get over there and let you know. I have some GDHP I can try...
-
Okay, I got to the range today with my Bushmaster M4, my Sig 220ST and my R9s. It was a beautiful day to be outside! The M4 and 220 worked great. The R9 had a few issues, but not as bad as in the past.
I brought a big box of Speer 115gr GDHP and also some blazer 115gr FMJ. The R9s was, of course, clean and also lubed with the recomended super lube. I watched carefully how I fired each shot, making sure to keep my thumbs away from the slide and to keep a good solid grip and tight wrist.
I fired about 60 or so rounds, mostly the GDHP. The first two magazines, or 12 rounds, were fine. The third may have been fine as well, I didn't keep a careful record today. Overall, I experienced 4 failures. Two of these were failure to feed with GHDP, where the round is tipped up with the bullet up against the top and rear of the chamber. The third failure was also of this type, but with the blazer FMJ.
The last failure was a brand new trick. It was a failure to extract. When the slide went back, the casing didn't come with it out of the chamber. This was fairly late in the shooting session, and I suspect that some gunk got under the extractor so it did not properly latch on to the casing.
I don't quite know what to make of this. Karl told me that as far as he is concerned, the pistol works very well. I used the ammo you guys all tell me is the most reliable and even tried some FMJ, which should feed perfectly. Maybe I should find a ransom rest. A ransom rest won't "limp wrist" and if it fails in that then it's hard to blame the shooter.
Still, it could have just gotton dirty quickly. If I can get it to reliably fire the first 14 rounds that would be okay. Pondering...
-
Jarcher
Check how Erich found out what was causing his jams on his 9/24/05 posts - interesting.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1127354827;start=15
I also see that some have solved jams by careful polishing of the throat.
-
I just read that, thanks. Is there any information about polishing posted somewhere?
-
Try this one - may be others
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1122326096;start=15#25
-
I've had other problems with my R-9, but never a Faiure To Feed (FTF), even though I've used a variety of ammo. I have fired about 390 total rounds with my R-9. 100 rounds of of this was Speer 115 grain GDHPs with no FTFeed problems.
There is one important thing I've learned after firing about 390 rounds with my R-9. YOU HAVE TO HOLD ON TO IT VERY VERY TIGHT! I have shot many hand guns in my life and I very seldom get a "limp wrist" type failure with my normal grip, even when firing my Kel tec P3-AT .380 with hot Corbon ammo. But using my normal grip on the R-9 was sometimes giving me failure to eject problems. So I griped my R-9 even tighter and these problems went away. Try it, maybe it will help with some of the problems. Good Luck.
Ed
-
Edman, good thoughts, thanks for sharing your results.
Tom
-
Edman, that's what I learned, too. I'm glad it's working out for you! :)
-
Ed, thanks for the comments about holding the R9S tightly. I feel exactly the same way.
My good experience is almost certainly based upon abrasive tape which has helped maintain control. To me, it means the difference between success and failure.
Bill