The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: BytorJr on January 31, 2010, 10:56:35 AM

Title: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on January 31, 2010, 10:56:35 AM: I have been following a thread on GlockTalk (yeah..I know) where I lurk sometimes. People are really bashing the R9. Lot's of rumors really. One bloke says "I've heard they don't last long." Another sent his back for a refund, etc. They only like certain ammo is another constant gripe.

Now, I know some of the early R9s were a little finicky on ammo; and, yes, it does cost a fair bit. That said, just who are these guys kidding..a G26 being just as concealable in normal pants pockets on a guy not weighing 300lbs...please!!!

As for ammo, my personal opinion is that it's not nearly as finicky as these people make it out to be. I know of folks who've been successful at Gold Dot, HST, Silvertip, and Hornady TAP. So just how is 4 brands of premium JHP ammo defined as picky? As for FMJ, as long as people stay away from Remington Green Box they'd be ok....that goes pretty much for all pistols.

I'm venting a bit here; and, yes, I came for sympathy :).
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: FloridaCCW on January 31, 2010, 11:02:32 AM: I have been replying on that thread as well. I told the OP to come to this forum for accurate info.
Here is the thread

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1177735
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on January 31, 2010, 01:56:52 PM: Quote

I'm venting a bit here; and, yes, I came for sympathy :).

I agree with you. I can't really offer sympathy, but agreement. That being said, when I got my R9s, I read the recommended ammos here on the Forum, picked Winchester 115 gr. Silvertips and have never wanted to try anything else or tried anything else.

I use the motto, if it's not broke, don't fix it; same thing with ammo, if it works, I don't want to try anything else. How can you improve on no FTF or no FTE, flawless everytime.

Now 9mm Silvertips are hard to find, I realize. For me, though, I stocked up before they became scarce as they are today. Point is, try the recommended ammo, and as so many here on the Forum say, pick what performs best in your R9 and stick with it.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on January 31, 2010, 02:07:52 PM: I think a lot of people ASSUME their Kimbers, Glocks, Sigs, et al will feed any JHP ammo well. I doubt most of these folks complaining haven't even tested those aforementioned firearms with a multitude of loads. Who knows, they may be just as "finicky."
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on January 31, 2010, 02:22:40 PM: Some folks complain just to complain; and why are they complaining about an R9 on the Glock Forum? I know, they can talk about anything they want.

I have a Glock 33 compact and really like it, but if I didn't, I wouldn't complain about it on the Rohrgaugh Forum. Oh well, that's just me.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kanuist on January 31, 2010, 04:14:02 PM: I can see where some of this is coming from. Before I got my R9, I read this forum a great deal. I also searched the web and I got conflicting information. Most of the negative info, came from people who had never owned an R9.

Having previously carried a Kimber and a Springfield XD, I can see where folks would find the R9 less than user friendly.

What they don't get is that the R9 is designed for a very specific purpose. "Easily concealed self defense". Yes it doesn't like all ammo and yes it needs to be cleaned after each use and yes the recoil spring has a short lifespan.

As I mentioned once before on this forum; champion show dogs get better treatment than muts. The R9 is definately a champion PUP!
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on January 31, 2010, 04:21:23 PM: Yep! The R9 may not be for everyone, but for those of us who have em', love em'.....Well, like them alot. :) :)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: chameleon on January 31, 2010, 05:23:40 PM: When Glock first came on the market, I did back flips, just the thought of a light weight large caliber pistol that won't beat you up when carried all day. I was all over them, I bought the Model 23. In time the rest of the world caught up and started producing lightweight concealed carry pieces. I always preferred the steel guns, or at least alloy.I have a Kimber that weighs 25 ozs. easy to carry, I have some Sigs with alloy frames.
I like the R9 because it is light, small and is a true double action, not a Safe action or what ever they want to call it.
I will carry my Kimber 1911 in the cocked and locked condition well before I will carry my Glock 23 with a round in the chamber, and my feeling is if you're not going to carry with a round in the chamber leave the gun home, so I do.
The R9 with its true double action and small light weight size is an ideal carry piece. I have carried in my pocket, but I feel it is best served in a IWB. I feel well protected with it and very safe and confident it will stay in the inert condition until I pull the trigger. Remember, the Glock when cocked to load that round in the chamber is striker fired and that firing pin spring is under tension and you are more than half cocked.Very little pressure on that trigger releases that spring, you best be on target at that point, or at least have it pointed in a safe direction, not pointed down your trousers as we've seen.

The R9 is pricey, and when a product is out of financial reach of some it automatically becomes scrutinized for any rumored flaws.

Well constructed, easy to carry, you won't see us here bash the R9, we own one, the bashing comes from those not in the know.

Go with the percentages, there are bad models in every thing produced, it is up to the manufacturer to rectify it, this company stands behind their product, you can't ask for more than that.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on January 31, 2010, 05:26:18 PM: FloridaCCW,

Your response on GlockTalk was spot on....THANKS!!!
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: Richard S on January 31, 2010, 05:31:22 PM: When it comes to guns, automobiles, politics, and religion, there will always be differences of opinion -- often strongly expressed and sometimes expressed without the benefit of either experience or research. It all reminds me of this little item which has previously been posted to the Forum:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/1911vsGlock.jpg)

I think it was Tracker who once described the R9 as "a gentleman's weapon." That sums up the matter rather well for me.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on January 31, 2010, 06:20:43 PM: "A gentlemans' weapon". Has a nice ring to it!
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: P7Enigma on February 01, 2010, 12:11:23 PM: A Glock is...well...a Glock, what else is there to harp on it? So, being bored as they are...they pick on something that most of them over there probably have never even touched let alone afford. As mentioned in other threads on this forum. a Glock is a tool and I have both. To concur with "Mr S", its a "gentlemens gun" and doesn't "print" in your pocket like a brick!

In a defense of them...a Glock eats anything you put in it and you can throw it against the wall numerous times and it still shoots. Its the perverbial "Bic" gun...Trying to compare one against an R9 however is like comparing elephant dung art to the Mona Lisa...

::)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kanuist on February 01, 2010, 02:13:03 PM: A gentleman's weapon indeed. I like that very much.

If I were in a position where I was more than likely going to get shot at everyday. An R9, would not be my first choice as a weapon, though it would be for backup.

A gentleman tends not to get himself into dangerous situations. We have a modicum of decorum, but like to be prepared none the less.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 01, 2010, 02:22:26 PM: That is like the definition of a superior pilot: "It is one who does not put himself into situations where he must summon his superior skills."
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 02:32:02 PM: Quote

In a defense of them...a Glock eats anything you put in it and you can throw it against the wall numerous times and it still shoots. Its the perverbial "Bic" gun...Trying to compare one against an R9 however is like comparing elephant dung art to the Mona Lisa...

::)

I'm sold on the Glock, thanks to the gentleman from Texas. It fires, no matter what. I used to think they were not so good to look at.....now, not so bad at all. :) ;)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: Richard S on February 01, 2010, 02:33:47 PM: Quote
That is like the definition of a superior pilot: "It is one who does not put himself into situations where he must summon his superior skills."

The instructor who taught this old Army type to fly a Cessna 150 years ago had an expression which I remember to this day: "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are *&^%$# few old bold pilots." ;)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 04:22:53 PM: I had one of my best friends, whom I would put in the catagory of a superior pilot. I guess there are some things even a superior pilot can't handle. He had his own plane, new, and got into battle with a sudden micro burst over Fla. Needless to say, he lost. He was one who always checked weather conditions, went through his plane check before take off, and filed his flight plan. Then on a sunny day in 2004, going from his home in NC to his home in Fla.; the micro burst.

He tried climbing to 26,000 ft., but couldn't get above the burst. The force tore off his right wing.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: P7Enigma on February 01, 2010, 04:50:28 PM: I have lightly experienced some of those down here flying a twin Comanche...

and as far as sayings..."there are those who have ground looped and those that will"...

Speaking of pilots...wonder what happened to "flyandscube"...haven't seen Bill on here in quite some time
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed? (LONG)
Post by: Writer_Ron on February 01, 2010, 05:12:27 PM: Quote
I have been following a thread on GlockTalk (yeah..I know) where I lurk sometimes. People are really bashing the R9.

Bashing is not unique to Rohrbaugh pistols. It happens with many relatively high-priced items: Swiss watches, BMWs, single-malt scotch, handmade knives ... the list goes on and on.

To understand the phenomenon, keep in mind that a consumer who decides to buy a particular item pays money in exchange for TWO kinds of benefits:

1. Functional Benefits
-- The ability of a purchased product or service to do what it’s supposed to do. This tends to be objective, in the sense that function can tested and measured. However, different consumers seek different functional benefits.

2. Emotional Benefits
-- The degree to which buyers feel better about themselves (or the world) after purchasing a product or service. This tends to be subjective, in the sense that it's highly personal.

When you see folks "bashing" a product, it's typically because THEY perceive a significant mismatch between the selling price and the value of the functional and emotional benefits.

Consider the happy purchaser of a new R9. He or she finds lots of functional benefits in a small, lightweight, well-made, reliable, all metal, 9mm pocket pistol with a smooth trigger. The price tag seems reasonable: after all, there are many customized 1911s -- and limited production revolvers -- out there that cost more than an R9. Compared to a Wilson 1911, an R9 is ... almost inexpensive. :)

The new R9 owner also receives emotional benefits: pride of ownership, delight that the R9 is precision made and hand tuned, the fun of showing "the pup" to others (including folks at the range), and the happiness of participating in this forum as an owner.

Next, consider the happy Glock purchaser who chooses the Baby Glock after rejecting the R9. We can assume that he or she perceived much less functional benefit in the R9 compared to the Glock. In fact, he or she probably decided that three of the R9's characteristics contribute NEGATIVE benefit to the equation:
1. The R9's somewhat "finicky" ammo tastes.
2. The R9's restriction against shooting +P ammo.
3. The requirement to replace the recoil spring after 200 rounds.

To this Glock purchaser, the R9's high price (compared to a Glock or Springfield XD or a Ruger LCP) seems WAY out of line. How can a pistol with so many "shortcomings" be so expensive?

And so, he or she presumes that people who buy R9s didn't do enough homework or -- more likely -- were swayed by emotions (e.g. they bought their Rohrbaughs as "status symbols" or because they have more money than sense).

I believe that many (most?) "bashers fall into this group of folks." They don't see themselves as bashers -- but rather as "honest observers of the truth" that a Baby Glock will do a better job than an R9 of shooting a carload of mixed ammo during a LONG range session.

Bottom line: "bashers" don't understand what makes the R9 worth having ... and never will. But, they are often fun to talk to. :)

Ron
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 01, 2010, 05:46:06 PM: Sad to hear of your friend, KJ, and sometimes it is just wrong place at the wrong time and there was nothing that could be done about it. One of my neighbors, also a very skilled pilot, crashed last year flying home from Crested Butte in a 182. He was caught in mountain weather with no place to go but down and he, his wife, and two young children perished; a tragic end to a beautiful family.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 01, 2010, 05:50:52 PM: Very well stated, Writer_Ron; you are, indeed, a writer.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 06:43:40 PM: Sorry, as well, to hear about your neighbors, tracker. It is, indeed, tragic, and very hard to speak of those things, but sometimes it helps. I had been close friends with Mick since the 3rd grade.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 06:54:15 PM: Ron. Spoken like a Scholar.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 01, 2010, 08:56:33 PM: Bashers are sometimes people who are jealous of what others have, sometimes because they can't afford it or just do not see the value in it.
By bashing they justify not owning one, and at the same time let others know why they don't have or want one. And often times they know very little about the item they are bashing, except the price.
I have asked people making negative comments why they didn't like the item they were bashing, and have heard things like "you have to be stupid to spend that much money on that"
or "they have more money than brains, I can get brand XYZ for about half the price of that, and it's just as good"
One of my favorites is "why do two people want a house that big" I usually respond with, Because they do and can afford it.

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 01, 2010, 09:01:27 PM: Envy is the playground of losers.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 09:01:47 PM: John. I agree. I simply respond: "Because I can."
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 09:05:23 PM: Quote
Envy is the playground of losers.

Very good words! I like that.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 01, 2010, 09:17:04 PM: Writer_Ron....you are correct. How many times have I heard the air-cooled Porsche 911s have terrible ergonomics? Yet, I can think of no other car with a better driving position and outer vision. The "quirky" handling seems to be very good IMO, seeing as how many championships have 911's won. That quirky behavior is an advantage IF the driver knows how to use it - otherwise, it's a lost cause.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 09:37:41 PM: I have had a Porsche. Loved it....liked it alot. I may have another. I can only say good things, or should I say great things about the car.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 01, 2010, 09:49:52 PM: Which model? 911, 928, 944, 924, 912, 914, 986? (and the list goes on).

BTW...I see that Porsche engined Riley won the 24 hours of Daytona.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 09:58:37 PM: A silver 928. My next will be a 911.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 01, 2010, 10:17:26 PM: Never owned a 928. I've had a 944 and 911. Thank goodness I didn't start my Porsche journey with the 944.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 01, 2010, 10:34:57 PM: Yep. The 944 was a disappointment to Porsche and probably to you as well.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 01, 2010, 10:44:46 PM: The 924 was Ferdinand's nadir.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 02, 2010, 12:53:04 AM: I searched low and high for a low mileage 944 N/A. Now, had I known that it needed more work than I thought, I probably wouldn't have bought it. It needed a new master and slave cylinder, the clutch went at 50K miles, the grounding never was correct, and once I moved from Dallas, I had a hard time finding a good mechanic. It also ate rear shocks.

Had I bought a turbo, I may feel differently. Don't get me wrong, it drove well, great road feel, easy to drive fast at the track, but in the end it was just a car. It just doesn't have the soul of the 911.

Had most of my investments not tanked long ago, I really would have a hard time resisting the Cayman S. However, that will be along time coming.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 02, 2010, 07:33:25 AM: It seems, there's always something better; and that's.....good.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 02, 2010, 09:11:36 PM: Quote
It seems, there's always something better; and that's.....good.

You might want to check this out!

http://www.verycoolvideos.com/d2009122004/weekly_40.php
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 02, 2010, 09:22:08 PM: I just called my insurance agent and he talked me out of the Veyron.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 02, 2010, 09:24:29 PM: Yep. If you have to call your insurance agent, you don't need a Veyron. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: FloridaCCW on February 02, 2010, 09:35:07 PM: This thread has really gone off topic lol....
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 02, 2010, 09:48:30 PM: I know. We tend to do that, especially when the one who started the thread loves the Porche; and I do to. I don't think BytorJr minds too much. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 02, 2010, 10:04:15 PM: Nein, I don't mind. :)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 02, 2010, 10:12:15 PM: The general theme here is paying more for perceived quality; sometimes your soft spot for the very best pays off; sometimes as in the aforementioned Porsches the fruits of victory are ashes in your mouth.

As to the Veyron, you had better have an insurance agent or all of the rest of your toys can disappear. J.P. Morgan said about Yachts: "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it." That is a different matter.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 02, 2010, 10:36:19 PM: That's my point, tracker. If you have to ask your insurance agent how much the insurance is YOU DON'T NEED THE CAR! ;D ;D

Oh! I really liked my 928! :) ;)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 02, 2010, 10:43:20 PM: I don't think I said that I asked him about the insurance cost. He just talked me out of it for common sense reasons. Why did you let go of the 928?
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 02, 2010, 11:05:10 PM: The 928 was 23 years old and I got an offer right out of the blue, I couldn't refuse. I didn't need to sell it, but the offer was too good to pass up.

And if you need common sense not to buy a Veyron, well...........You're right. (Your insurance agent is right). :) It only makes sense, not to buy one. :) :)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 11:18:27 AM: Quote
sometimes as in the aforementioned Porsches the fruits of victory are ashes in your mouth.

Good Tracker! ;D ;D

Song: Ashes in Your Mouth

Singer: Megadeth

Album: Train of Consequences

http://www.loglar.com/song.php?id=24263
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 12:42:00 PM: Profound words, indeed, in that railway car on "The Train of Consequences."
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 12:57:05 PM: "The Train of Consequences"

http://www.loglar.com/song.php?id=24260
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 01:00:52 PM: That, too.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 01:09:57 PM: I was looking for another song! ;D ;D And I'm sure it will be forth coming. :) ;)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 01:27:12 PM: Without a doubt.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 01:29:15 PM: Where is it? ;D ;D I look forward, for sure.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 01:47:57 PM: Going from trains to planes on one of my favorites from Gordon Lightfoot

http://www.whitegum.com/introjs.htm?/songfile/EARLYMOR.HTM
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 01:51:21 PM: The Gentleman from Texas. Excellent.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 03, 2010, 07:53:50 PM: Unless you have access to the Autobahn it would be a waste. Fun to think about though, here are a few facts on it.
The Veyron can be driven in either semi-automatic or fully automatic mode. A replacement transmission for the Veyron costs just over $120,000. It also features full-time permanent four-wheel drive, using the Haldex Traction system. It uses special Michelin PAX run-flat tyres, designed specifically for the Veyron to accommodate its top speed, which reportedly cost $25,000 US per set.[12] The tires can only be removed from the rims in France, a service which reportedly costs $70,000. Kerb weight is 2,034.8 kilograms (4,486 lb).[12] This gives the car a power to weight ratio, according to Volkswagen Group's 736 kilowatts (1,001 PS; 987 bhp) figures, of 446.3 bhp per ton.
It puts out 1020 BHP and has a top speed of 253.5mph and has 10 radiators. At top speed the tires will only last about 15min but they say the car runs out of gas in 12min.
Base price $1,550,000) :o :o

I just called my local CarMax but they don't have one. ;D

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 08:00:26 PM: I still like it. I wonder if Jay Leno has one?
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 08:08:36 PM: All of this and wandering into a salt estuary with one of these on the Gulf Freeway frontage road?
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 03, 2010, 08:17:02 PM: I think I read Leno has one; but I wouldn't swear to it.

At the Porsche Rennsport Reunion II at Dayton in 2007 somebody drove a Veyron and just parked it in the parking lot like everybody else, beside some "semi-beater" car. I didn't see it; but all of the guys at the "camp" I was at (for the amateur races that day) saw it...they were mystified and stupified that anybody would park it THERE....somebody gladly would have given it a proper parking place.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 08:24:21 PM: I read somewhere that he has approximately 180 cars, don't hold me to the number, in a temperature controlled warehouse, and 3 full time mechanics to keep them all in running condition, so Jay can drive any one he wants at any given time.

I'll guess Jay does have a Veyron. He has most everything else.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 08:25:52 PM: Quote
All of this and wandering into a salt estuary with one of these on the Gulf Freeway frontage road?

Yep! We can't all like the same things.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 08:55:00 PM: Quote

I just called my local CarMax but they don't have one. ;D

John

John. I can put you in touch with a dealer who has two used ones at the dealship right now, 2006 and 2007. I can even get you a new one for the right price. ;D Hey, they're coming out now with a convertible. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 09:02:37 PM: If your insurance agent is your friend, call him first.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 09:07:25 PM: Words of the gentleman from Texas! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 09:10:52 PM: KJ, you're OK; I have sensed that you like to have the last word.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 09:17:08 PM: The gentleman from Texas. That really depends.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 09:21:53 PM: Thank you for the compliment.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 03, 2010, 09:34:06 PM: I see yes and no for Leno owning a Veyro, I thought this was intresting.

Now one reviewer says the cost of owning a Veyron may approach $300,000 a year–a sum one blogger said may be akin to running a private jet.

The costs include:

-$10,000 tires, which the manufacturer recommends changing every 2,500 miles

-$60,000 for changing the wheels with every three tire changes.

-Scheduled maintenance, insurance for a 40-year-old male with a clean driving record, fuel (around 8 MPG in the city, 14 MPG on the highway).

Add in other assorted costs and the total approaches $300,000.

And people complain about changing a recoil spring after 200rds ;D

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 09:51:09 PM: Quote
Thank you for the compliment.

You're welcome, I think! ;D
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 10:06:19 PM: Quote
in other assorted costs and the total approaches $300,000.

John

There ya go, common sense. Some times money just doesn't matter. And really, our toys, are just material things. I put the Good Lord first, and then get the toys after. I definitely have too many.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 10:16:52 PM: All of this fun talk about the Veyron reminds me of when I lived in Cascais, Portugal in the late '80s. A small elderly gentlemen who was the father of the lady who owned our nightly restaurant bought a new Corvette. He stood about 5' 2" and thought he was a ladies' man.

One sunny day he was driving between Cascais and Estoril and was flirting with some younger women in the next lane. He lost control of that monster and ran up on a 10" curb on the Marginal. The Marginal is one of the deadliest roadways in europe. He destroyed two tires and discovered that he had to import those tires from San Francisco. A few weeks and $6000 later he had his four new tires.

Be careful of what you wish for.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 10:31:23 PM: Nice story. I think I'll just look at mine a lot. :) ;)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 03, 2010, 10:33:23 PM: At your young age, a wise decision.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 10:34:30 PM: Quote
I think I'll just look at mine a lot. :) ;)

I do that alot with the R9s.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 03, 2010, 10:35:37 PM: Quote
At your young age, a wise decision.

And quite an appropriate one, too.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: ACP on February 04, 2010, 09:38:20 PM: This is a weird string. Started with why R9 gets bashed, (and I applaud R9 defenders), and now we are back to the Bugatti?

And you wonder why my posts are sometimes given toward idiocy?
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 04, 2010, 09:53:39 PM: We're just having a bit of fun in February, ACP; I'm sure you can relate to that and no one has objected so far.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 04, 2010, 10:00:52 PM: Yep. Just having lots of fun, here. Been out most of the day.
Been celebrating my Mom's 92nd birthday and getting her driver's license renewed. She did well, too, on the driving test.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 04, 2010, 10:12:38 PM: Quote
This is a weird string. Started with why R9 gets bashed, (and I applaud R9 defenders), and now we are back to the Bugatti?

ACP. Where've you been? You haven't been posting much lately.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: Recluse on February 04, 2010, 10:23:39 PM: I did not enjoy the 944 bashing here! >:( I've had a handful of them, and currently have a 944 race car.

But then again, I race the 944 because....... It's just a 944. If I do something dumb, and roll it up into a ball, it was just a 944.

Gotta agree on the 911's quirky advantages. I've got an early one that's been hot-rodded. What a car!
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 04, 2010, 10:30:47 PM: Fantastic, KJ, and happy birthday to your amazing mother.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 04, 2010, 10:34:14 PM: The Gentleman from Texas. Thanks! It has been a good day!
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 04, 2010, 10:37:48 PM: Quote
I did not enjoy the 944 bashing here! >:( I've had a handful of them, and currently have a 944 race car.

But then again, I race the 944 because....... It's just a 944. If I do something dumb, and roll it up into a ball, it was just a 944.

Gotta agree on the 911's quirky advantages. I've got an early one that's been hot-rodded. What a car!

I know. I've just heard bad things about 944's and if you like them, that's a good thing. I'm sure if I would have had one, I'd have liked it too.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: Recluse on February 04, 2010, 11:57:34 PM: Quote

I know. I've just heard bad things about 944's and if you like them, that's a good thing. I'm sure if I would have had one, I'd have liked it too.

Kinda like the R9. Those that don't have one, bash them (how's that for bringing this thread back to where it started?)

To 911 drivers, the 944 suffers the same N A R P syndrome as the 914.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 05, 2010, 12:13:42 AM: My real issue with my 944 was that it was a complete money sink. Rinky dink stuff. It ate clutches (2 in about 90K miles) and shocks. The low mileage on the clutch was probably the billion stoplights I had to go through and the whopping 140 lb-ft of torque (just about have to slightly slip it more often than not). The master cylinder is a PITA to change too. It does have a better A/C than the early 911's (up till the 993 series anyway). Oh, and by the time I got rid of it, it had massive hysteresis in the drive-train - most likely the ring and pinion as those are a weak point in 944s.

That said, they are fantastic handling cars. Mine was a N/A. I wanted to keep it and convert to track usage. However, I just didn't see spending the money on a new suspension and cage. However, the "if it gets banged up, it's a 944" thought weighed heavily.

The fact it had 7 and 8" Fuchs almost made me keep it. But when somebody offers cash for it the very day you decide to sell - before it goes on autotrader...well, take it whilst you can get it.

As for the NARP thing...well, except for the engine and the aluminum control arms up front and banana's in the back (series 2 cars), it was really a Volkswagen-Audi group car.

Finally, there's one thing about car people...about 90% of the time they are also gun people. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 05, 2010, 01:23:27 AM: There are several cars that could previously be spotted cruising the roads but are now very scarce: Porsche 914; 924; 944; and 928. Jaguar XKEs popped up once in awhile but no more. Some of my avant garde friends bought XKEs in the '60s but were disillusioned when they had to make high speed road trips on the weekends just to chug along at 30 mph in Coronado, Ca. during the week. Those carburetors were a problem.

Some one once observed that Lucas of British Leyland was dubbed the Prince of Darkness or otherwise known as Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 05, 2010, 07:17:15 AM: My 928 would still be crusing around if the offer (cash offer, as well) hadn't came up mid last year. It was still fun to drive. I really liked the car.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: ACP on February 05, 2010, 09:54:17 AM: kjtrains: To answer your question as to where I have been, I just got back from the "Narcissist's Convention". Big mistake. I went there to talk about me and nobody else did.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 05, 2010, 10:12:06 AM: ACP. I guess I shouldn't have asked! Oh, well.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 05, 2010, 01:11:18 PM: I heard Obama was at that convention and dominated the self aggrandizement special interest group.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: ACP on February 05, 2010, 09:33:43 PM: Yeah; there was an open competition and he won. The judges were from hollywood. I gave it my best shot and lost.

Now, my fallback position is one of loving my Robar R9, Rafter S holster and lamenting the delay of the R45.

Boring? Yes, but it's something to do.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 05, 2010, 09:36:45 PM: Rafter S holster for the R9? I didn't know that it was available yet.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 05, 2010, 10:56:16 PM: Rafter will make you one, it just takes them a long time. I remember John and ACP both being flustrated at the long wait.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 05, 2010, 11:26:57 PM: Thanks, now I remember those posts.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 06, 2010, 12:37:14 AM: Aren't they out of Missouri? A friend of mine bought a nice sharkskin belt from them a few years ago at Dallas Market Hall gun show. VERY nice stuff.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 06, 2010, 01:48:12 AM: I don't remember were they are located, because I paid with pay-pal. But you are correct they make some very nice exotics for a reasonable price.
Here is my elephant R9 holster with gator trim.

(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/R9holster001.jpg)

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 06, 2010, 01:52:18 AM: And as stated a long wait, with a lot of "it should go out tomorrow or the next day". ;D

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 06, 2010, 07:46:59 AM: Quote
I don't remember were they are located, because I paid with pay-pal. But you are correct they make some very nice exotics for a reasonable price.
Here is my elephant R9 holster with gator trim.

(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/R9holster001.jpg)

John

John. Excellent holster, for sure.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: BytorJr on February 06, 2010, 10:37:37 AM: Since their holsters are not what I'd consider a traditional style OWB (with the belt notches on both sides), how well does it tuck in towards the body?
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: theirishguard on February 06, 2010, 11:39:32 AM: I have talked with the Rafter couple several times on the phone. They are from Missouri. Also visited with them at the Dallas Market Hall gun show. I finally asked for my money back after several months of run a round. My advice: if you see them at a gun show and they have what you want buy it, it's quality stuff, but do not order from them. Tom
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 06, 2010, 12:25:44 PM: Quote
Since their holsters are not what I'd consider a traditional style OWB (with the belt notches on both sides), how well does it tuck in towards the body?

I believe by "traditional" style you are talking about a Pancake holster (belt slot on both ends) this style is a scabbard OWB.
Here are pics of the back.

(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/R9magext010.jpg) (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/R9magext011.jpg)

Most holster makers have a scabbard style in there line, I have a Milt Sparks scabbard for my Kimber Ultra CDP.

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: chameleon on February 06, 2010, 06:01:51 PM: (http://www.fototime.com/116960386C83AF6/standard.jpg)

(http://www.fototime.com/6204AD643120C49/standard.jpg)

(http://www.fototime.com/A4AEEE0CB260849/standard.jpg)

Mr. Posey:
(http://www.fototime.com/A089FEBC37FC7CB/standard.jpg)

(http://www.fototime.com/FF9C7A79A408567/standard.jpg)

Race Cars, you gotta love'em.

(http://www.fototime.com/B75CC37DACEEEEE/standard.jpg)

Some one mentioned race cars, sorry, didn't want to take away from those gorgeous R9s and some great holsters.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: ACP on February 06, 2010, 06:44:27 PM: Affirmative on Missouri location for Rafter S. Their original leather trade is tack for the horse world.

I have the same holster as Yankee without the flap above the alligator trim. I carry daily and like the way the Rafter S holster works.

There are two interior leather grooves stiched into the holster which guide the sights/gun into place. Also, when you turn the holster upside down, the R9 stays in the holster, which I like. For me, inverting the rig without the gun falling out is a sign of quality and gives me peace of mind if I decide to walk on my hands.

Would I go through it again? Hard to say. Having the holster is great but they are difficult to deal with as Tom points out.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 06, 2010, 08:53:44 PM: I have been looking for an exotic skin OWB holster for my Kimber, and have had very little response on the six or seven forums I have a WTB ad on. After looking at all the holster makers I could find that do exotic skins Rafters price is quite good, and I have actually been thinking about ordering one from them. (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/eek1.gif)
The price for an exotic from Rafters is near or less than some makers want for a cowhide holster, and there wait is less than many makers, Milt Sparks is quoting 22 - 30 weeks,
Bulman Gunleather is not even taking orders, Five Shot Leather is at twenty weeks for delivery.
Anyone have an exotic skin OWB holster for a 3" 1911 there looking to sell ??

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 06, 2010, 09:22:27 PM: chameleon. Great pictures!
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: ACP on February 06, 2010, 09:50:00 PM: All of a sudden I am not feeling so bad about Rafter S, given the story that Yankee relates.

I think the reason for Rafter S "black eye" is because of the variance between their quoted vs actual delivery. However, given the incredible deliveries given by the other sources you contacted...hmmm.

Wish I could help out with the holster you are looking for, Yankee, but I am actually recommending Rafter S! This is something I never thought I would do again. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: theirishguard on February 07, 2010, 11:00:14 AM: when ordering a holster/belt from Rafter, try paying for it or give credit card info only when it ships. Tom
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 07, 2010, 01:25:42 PM: That may be the reason they collect the payment up front, they have probably had many people get fed up with waiting and cancel there order. Thats how they get there stock for shows, the canceled orders. ;D

I just got an e-mail back from HBE LleatherWorks and he wants $229 for a scabbard style holster finished in Shark, Rafters gets $85.50 for there Shark holster. And Ross Leather wants $350 for a Shark pancake holster. :o The differance in price from one maker to another is unreal, I understand the need to charge more can be driven by overhead, location, etc.
How can a maker justify charging four times as much for the same basic holster. I don't think Ross leather is making a holster that is four times as good as Rafter, maybe four times as fast. ;D

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 07, 2010, 01:44:41 PM: Maybe some one could could up with a novel concept that includes quality, service, and value. Meanwhile, I am happy with the relatively plain Hedley and Alessi holsters; those two gentlemen incorporated all of the above in their products and services.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: yankee2500 on February 07, 2010, 05:18:33 PM: Tracker,
You are correct there, Where I grew up and lived in NY was about 45min. from Lou's shop. I see they are still making and selling Alessi holsters.

John
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: ACP on February 07, 2010, 06:44:49 PM: The definitive question for a buyer is "why is the price the price?" In aerospace, you always had to write up a unit price justification for government audit review. Sole source was a nightmare because you had to rely on what the vendor tells you.

Fortunately, when a contract exceeded a certain dollar threshold, the government mandated disclosure with which the vendor had to comply with by law.

In my private life, I had a big job on my Chevy pickup truck a little over a year ago. I keep my truck in great condition. The job was a tune-up and other stuff that was driven by mileage considerations.

I went to a GM dealer, (one of the biggest in NE), and he quoted $900.00. I went to the no frills, dirty garage, on the other side of town, and they quoted $300.00. I went to the cheaper place becuase I asked around about their service. I have never looked back and I am a repeat customer.

The GM delaer has to recover the huge expenses of floorplanned vehicles, large payroll, flat screen tv with gourmet coffee waiting room, et al.

Not sure why the price disparity in the holsters but I recommend Yankee does the following:

Contact Rafter S and offer "progress payments". You are a repeat customer after all. Tell them you wish to pay them 1/3 up front, 1/3 midway during quoted delivery and balance when shipped (with tracking number). The worst they can do is say "no" and be prepared to walk away if they do so.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 07, 2010, 07:07:57 PM: Quote
I have lightly experienced some of those down here flying a twin Comanche...

and as far as sayings..."there are those who have ground looped and those that will"...

Speaking of pilots...wonder what happened to "flyandscube"...haven't seen Bill on here in quite some time

I noticed him checking in the other day. Didn't seem like he stayed long.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: Aglifter on February 08, 2010, 10:15:53 PM: The first car I bought was a 968, coral w. tan interior. The "silly" ergonomics were very bad -- difficult to drive and adjust the AC, difficult to fiddle w. the radio -- no cup holders as I recall - and I loved every minute of it... I need to buy another one, maybe... She handled like a dream, and had this odd, gutteral exhaust note that my brother would hear several miles out when I was heading to the ranch -- part of that was that I was usually "moving" down a very small, hardly traveled ranch road for the 22 miles from town to the ranch.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: tracker on February 08, 2010, 10:33:47 PM: I had forgotten about the 968; definitely don't see any of those on the roads. Porsches are sort of like Rohrbaughs; the models are always moving on to others.
Title: Re: Why is it R9 gets bashed?
Post by: kjtrains on February 08, 2010, 10:42:28 PM: I do like a Porche.