The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R-45 => Topic started by: TpaBayFlyFisher on January 19, 2012, 01:18:49 PM

Title: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: TpaBayFlyFisher on January 19, 2012, 01:18:49 PM
Since no one has posted the existance of the long awaited R45, I assume that we are out of luck for at least several more months.  :(
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: kjtrains on January 19, 2012, 01:29:44 PM
DDG indicates no promise for this year, however, it will come.    :)
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: TpaBayFlyFisher on January 19, 2012, 02:26:57 PM
By the time it arrives I will own too many Kimbers and Sigs......................
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: kjtrains on January 19, 2012, 02:34:30 PM
Ahhh, the prosperity of it all;  just get a bigger safe.    :)
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 20, 2012, 12:03:54 AM
Ummmm.... they did, in fact, display an R-45 prototype.

See the link above.

Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Writer_Ron on January 20, 2012, 09:08:51 AM
Here's a link to a photo that appeared on a GunsAmerica Blog post about Shot 2012:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/photo-62.jpg

Ron
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: luvmyyorkie on January 21, 2012, 07:20:38 PM
I had a ball getting to handle the proto-type R45 at this year's Shot Show (and the Cerekote R9 as well).  Great feel to the pistol and I'm looking forward to the pistol coming out in 2 years, from what the folks there told me. 
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: kjtrains on January 21, 2012, 07:23:11 PM
WOW!  Would have loved to been there!    :)
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Jack_F on January 21, 2012, 07:25:09 PM
What gun would you compare it to size wise?
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 23, 2012, 06:50:23 AM
Here you go - R9S in red - R45S in black...and the proposed Boberg XR-45S (in 45 GAP) in blue:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/flyandscuba/RohrbaughR45boberg45.jpg)
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: TpaBayFlyFisher on January 23, 2012, 09:55:50 AM
The Kimber Ultras seem smaller..............Here is their figures:

Caliber: .45 ACP
Height (inches) 90° to barrel: 4.75
Weight (ounces) with empty magazine: 25
Length (inches): 6.8
Magazine capacity: 7


So I am somewhat surprised by the prototype.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 23, 2012, 11:00:12 AM
I addressed this a bit in the related thread.   Any assumption that Rohrbaugh would try to make the smallest, lighest .45 ACP pistol was just that -- an assumption.  I think Karl figures he has nailed the pocket pistol, and doesn't see the need to make a bigger one in a different caliber.  The R45 is intended to be something different.

Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: TpaBayFlyFisher on January 23, 2012, 07:19:28 PM
So, what is the R45s selling point?
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 23, 2012, 07:43:49 PM
So, what is the R45s selling point?


Single stack, DAO trigger -- It appears to me that it will be an all-metal competitor to the Glock G36 and the Kahr P45.... ???
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 23, 2012, 10:13:56 PM
Price is not established yet, but will be north of $2,000 and probably north of $2,500.

To call the R45 a competitor to the Glock or Kahr is like calling the R-9 a competitor to the Diamondback DB9.  Think more like Les Baer or Wilson Combat...

Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 23, 2012, 11:38:26 PM
Price is not established yet, but will be north of $2,000 and probably north of $2,500.

To call the R45 a competitor to the Glock or Kahr is like calling the R-9 a competitor to the Diamondback DB9.  Think more like Les Baer or Wilson Combat...

Well, my flawless early production DB9 did replace my early production R9S in my pocket as an EDC deep cover pistol...  The weight, width, and 100% flawless operation out of the box through 250 rounds convinced me that it was self defense reliable.

Don't get me wrong, I did like the jewel-like precision craftsmanship of the R9S -- but equal functionality with less weight and smaller footprint (as well as a fraction of the cost) pushed me over the edge to make the change.

If Arne Boberg's attempt to created a precision true "pocket pistol" in .45 caliber the size of the R9S by utilizing the 45GAP's shorter OAL is successful, I will be ordering one.

I don't think a DAO all-metal single stack .45 -- even in the quality of the Rohrbaugh brother's well established reputation -- would cause me to spend $2500+ to replace my Glock G36, G29SF, or G39.  But, I wish them success in the effort!
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 24, 2012, 08:21:29 AM
I understand that.  There is a decent argument to be made that a Kel-Tec P11 is just as much gun as a Sig P239 (or maybe the new P224) at a third of the price -- and on paper, that is probably right.  But no one would confuse the two in a dark room!  ;)

Boberg's ideas are interesting.  I don't understand why they don't come to the SHOT Show? 
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 24, 2012, 10:52:11 AM
Boberg's ideas are interesting.  I don't understand why they don't come to the SHOT Show?

His operation is currently much smaller than the Rohrbaugh's.  He has a huge waiting list for the XR-9S, that is in production now.  He's trying to get 60-80 pistols per month completed and in the hands of those on his waiting list.  I'm in the queue -- and I don't expect my number to come up for a year or so.

I think that he felt his time was better served working to get pistols out the door, rather than increasing his waiting list by exhibiting at SHOT Show this year.  As he adds staff, maybe he'll make it next year.  The .45 GAP project is at least two years out -- if he can make it work with his design.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 24, 2012, 11:27:05 AM
I think the SHOT Show is almost required for a serious manufacturer.  You can never have too much interest in your product.  But more importantly, you make contacts with others in the industry--grip suppliers, holster makers, parts suppliers, etc.  They should make a point to go.  Even Rohrbaugh has to shut the plant down for a week to attend the show.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: MRC on January 24, 2012, 12:57:42 PM
This is just my opinion.

Arne Boberg is doing a fine job of marketing and Rohrbaugh could take a few lessons from him.  They botched this R45 deal completely I think by not hinting at what their plans were.  Boberg has concept videos out before production and answers questions from "his customers" himself.  He is now getting input by what "his customers" would like to see in a 45 cal.

A company sets their"Brand" and tries follow it.  Keltec makes low priced but very functional firearms and they have stayed with that premise. Seecamp has prided itself on their "minaturization"of firearms with very fine craftsmanship and stuck to the brand.

Rohrbaugh established its self as a high end producer of self defense pocket carried firearms and has been quite successful at it.  They announce a 45 cal and let "their customers" speculate on what to expect instead of announcing their intentions and prove to disappoint them and then act supprised.

Maria does a fine job, but Karl and Eric need to get a little closer to the market like Arne Boberg.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 24, 2012, 02:10:31 PM
MRC,

I am not sure I agree with you -- from a marketing/business perspective.  Or at least -- I see the other side of the coin. 

Rohrbaugh has essentially made one gun to date -- the R9.  (The R380 really doesn't count...it's just a detune of the R9  ;) ).  To say they have established their niche as a pocket pistol maker seems a bit premature.  I think Karl would say that his intent is to establish himself as a high-end, or even semi-custom, pistol maker.

From a business perspective, what happens if they develop a tiny pocket-sized R45?  Doesn't it cannibalize their own market for the R9?  How many people are going to carry an R9 in one pocket and an R45 in another?  R9 sales may theoretically slow down (no end to demand in sight yet, but...) because people decide the R45 is better than the R9, right?

(Don't even get me started on whether .45 ACP is really the right choice for a pocket gun.  I am not sure that it is...but that is a different topic).

On the other hand, what if Rohrbaugh sets out to make a high quality semi-custom compact (but not subcompact or pocket) pistol?  Existing customers who love their pocket guns may branch out to an R45 as a better "primary" carry gun.  Customers wind up with a Rohrbaugh in their pocket and a Rohrbaugh on their belt... Pretty cool.  And, you attract a whole new line of customers who don't want a pocket gun at all, but like finely crafted pistols.

Since you mention Kel-Tec, let's use them as an example.  They created the P-11 -- a subcompact 9mm.  Then the P-32 and P-3AT.  Where they a pocket gun company?  Then they created a pistol caliber carbine, then a true carbine, then a bullpup battle rifle, then a 30 round plinker gun, then a combat shotgun... etc.   Clearly KT's plan was to have a gun in every category of self-defense related armament, right?  So how is this any different?  The R9 is a pocket gun.  The R45 will be a belt gun.  The next Rohrbaugh model may be a full-size single action 1911, right?

I don't think any of this is willy-nilly.  If it turns out they just can't sell the R45 -- then I will chalk it up to a miscalculation on their part.  But feedback from the SHOT Show (even with full knowlede of the price range) was very positive.

So, I don't think anything was botched.  As for Arne Boberg, I met him briefly but do not know him.  I applaud his innovation.  However, I think its a little too early to decide whether the Boberg company is a success or not.

Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: MRC on January 24, 2012, 02:33:18 PM
Thanks for the reply DD

If you read my first paragrph, I say they botched it by announcing a year before they introduce the prototype and let speculation run wild on what it would be.  All I read was micro- compact 45 or a 1911.  If you or the Brothers would have nipped this speculation in the bud and came out with their true intentions it could have gotten a warm welcome here also.  I have not heard anyone on the forum saying

              " Boy, I can hardly wait"

If Boberg brings out a micro-compact 45 GAP it probably would hurt Rohrbaugh's R9 business just as much as a micro-compact R45 would with the sales going elsewhere.  I see a micro 9mm and a micro 45 as two different products entirely.

I still think that if Rohrbaugh does not step up their marketing they will be sitting around the shop wondering where their business went.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 24, 2012, 03:29:09 PM
Well, we can see you are darned if you do, and darned if you don't right?  There are lots of advantages and disadvantages to releasing information early.  Its not entirely clear to me which is the way to go.

Personally, I am not sure how many people are really going to like a micro-compact .45 -- GAP or otherwise.  I think it will be great if you don't actually shoot it much.  The R9 is already a handful for a lot of people.  Plus, it will be interesting to see what .45 GAP does balistically from a 3" barrel.

The problem with always going for smaller and lighter is that everyone plays that game.  Then they make their guns out of polymer too -- to make them cheaper.  Would an R45 pocket pistol be functionally different than a Kahr PM45?  I think the pocket 45 already exists, and those who really want one can buy it today.

Rohrbaugh can't try and complete with Kahr and Kel-Tec and Springfield.  They are better off staying in the high end market where they can distinguish themselves and make a little better profit margin.

Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Jack_F on January 24, 2012, 03:42:33 PM
When I think high end,  I think......Baer.....Brown......Nighthawk...Wilson........If they sell the R45 for $2500 +- they have a long way to go to match up...JMO
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: TpaBayFlyFisher on January 24, 2012, 04:20:47 PM
I love the debate.  But, small high quality .45s are already available.  Wilson Combat, Les B., make great 1911s, and Sig makes super DA/SA peices in .45. Heck even the Kimber Ultras that followed me home are well worth the money as carry guns.  But, the R9 is THE pocket handgun.  Will an R45 be another quality carry 45?  Given Rohrbaugh's track record, sure.  But, that niche is well populated and most would need something "more" to induce purchase.  Now if there was a premium pocket .45, many including myself would be ready to buy. In fact, that has been what has driven most of the talk here, not the hope of ANOTHER quality belt gun.............. :-\
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: TpaBayFlyFisher on January 24, 2012, 04:23:59 PM
OH, and as for marketing, why would one think that any message board is where a manufacturer would mold it's image?  Youtube or the gun mags sure, but trying to say that the brothers should correct our impressions probably is unrealistic.

Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: MRC on January 24, 2012, 04:48:28 PM
I am not saying this is where they should mold their image.  But where are they?  A monthly five word ad in American Handgunner, three days at the Shot Show once a year, Maria on the phone?  Most Gun Store owners have never heard of Rohrbaugh.

You 'brand' your company by what you make and how you market it.  They are known for well made pocket guns and that is their 'brand'.  If they want to be known as a "High end Gun maker" they will have to market themselves better than they are now.

Would you say this unveiling was a big success so far?

I have to add, I like the way Arrne Boberg is starting out.  The CCW crowd is not all that huge that you can't market it in a casual and personal way.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 24, 2012, 06:31:54 PM
Plus, it will be interesting to see what .45 GAP does balistically from a 3" barrel.

Would an R45 pocket pistol be functionally different than a Kahr PM45?  I think the pocket 45 already exists, and those who really want one can buy it today.

With the G39's 3.43" barrel, I think that we can safely predict what the ballistics would be from the 3.10" barrel of the Boberg in 45 GAP.

The Kahr PM45 is a larger pistol.  Look again, the Boberg XR-45 is essentially the same footprint as the Rohrbaugh R9S.  That is a huge difference in "pocketability" compared to the Kahr PM45...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/flyandscuba/RohrbaughR45xr45mgap.jpg)

As much as the "GAP-haters" wish it wasn't true -- the difference in OAL between the ACP and the GAP makes all the difference when considering a small,  truly pocket-capable pistol in .45 caliber.  Remember the 3.1" barrel of the Kahr PM45 actually has less rifled barrel length than would the 3.1" barrel of the Boberg - due to the longer porton of the barrel consisting of the unrifled chamber required with the ACP cartridge. 

I might even predict that the 45 GAP out of the Boberg would actually produce better ballistics than the 45 ACP out of the Kahr PM45! Probably not by much, but it shouldn't be less...
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: abboberg on January 24, 2012, 07:44:17 PM
Comment deleted - a bit off topic.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: tracker on January 24, 2012, 10:24:32 PM

Nice, Arne, but what is the relevance to the R-45?
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 24, 2012, 11:04:46 PM

Nice, Arne, but what is the relevance to the R-45?

Uh, as indicated in the earlier posts in this thread -- it (the XR-45) is smaller -- and probably more like the pocket 45 that many R9S owners and forum members (me included) thought the R45 was going to be...  Plus, there was a discussion of Boberg's lack of 2012 SHOT Show attendance and marketing methods...

I'm pleased that Arne felt comfortable to contribute to the discussion and address those issues/comments.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: tracker on January 24, 2012, 11:10:24 PM

Right.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 24, 2012, 11:17:37 PM

Right.

Is there something that I'm missing here?  A hidden meaning or agenda?  Seriously, help me understand... Thanks.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: abboberg on January 24, 2012, 11:24:59 PM
Quote
Nice, Arne, but what is the relevance to the R-45?

I was mostly addressing DDGator - I will delete my long-winded comment after he has read it.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Richard S on January 25, 2012, 06:36:09 AM
[Comment and link deleted as having been rendered moot.]
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 25, 2012, 11:06:27 AM
A comment on the lack of a firing pin safety?  That didn't explain much to me.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: abboberg on January 25, 2012, 11:29:18 AM
It was a "rebuttal" to my comment on a lack of firing pin safety in the R9S and my implication that it would fail a muzzle-down on concrete drop-test (based on tests I actually did with very strong firing pin return springs).

I know this is heresay, but this is what one poster said on CalCCW (who apparently had talked to one of the Rohrbaugh brothers): "The gun feels fantastic in my hands. I spoke to the owner of the company beginning of this year at the SHOT Show in Florida. He told me he will NEVER submit his guns to get drop tested and approved for Ca sales. It's too bad, he would sell a quiet a few of them I would think."

Perhaps Rohrbaugh changed its mind on drop testing since 2007.

Here is the link to the thread: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/carry-guns-ammo/1011-rohrbaugh-r9.html

I have never drop tested an R9 or R9S so I can't say for sure whether these pistols are drop safe - there may very well be some internal feature that I don't know about that blocks the firing pin.  Some clarification on this would be very helpful.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Aglifter on January 25, 2012, 12:03:11 PM
To me, the R45 felt a bit more like a Commander/P7 size gun - I could actually fit my palm on it, but it was quite compact.

It is one of the best feeling guns I've ever held, and I'm looking forward to carrying it as a belt gun - and probably shooting it in Steel Challenge - maybe action pistol.   

If you want a pocket 45, there was a 5+1 XDm at the SHOT show - about as small as a 45 is going to get.  It will be cheaper than anything anyone else is going to make in that category.  I have no desire for a 45 that small.  My father offered me his PM45, and I had no interest in that, either.  (A G36 isn't too bad, but not much different than carrying a Commander size 1911, for someone my size.) 

IMO, the pup is about as big as a pocket gun should be.  I have some pants w. very large pockets, in which I used to carry either my P7 or my 329 NG, until I put myself on a timer.

The pup can be pulled pretty quickly from a pocket, once it's "pre-staged" (loosened from its holster), even w. my freakish meat hook hands.  I could not pull the larger guns cannot be ripped out of the pocket as fast, w.o. running a strong risk of a snag. 

Essentially, there are 4 sizes of gun:

Micro - NAA minis, etc

Pocket - Pup, P3AT, Seecamp

CCW pieces - most everything called "compact", etc.

Full-Size - competition, duty pieces - things people tend to think are too large to carry, but which many people can carry w. the proper belt and holster.  (Sometime, place a 2.5" barreled revolver on top of a G17 - one is thought of as a carry piece, the other is thought of as a duty piece, but there's almost no difference in size.)
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 25, 2012, 12:40:51 PM
Yes, I am familiar with a drop safety (thanks anyway Jack_F).  The comment - and it's rebuttal - still didn't indicate Tracker's comment, or lack of response to my post (or PM for that matter).  I can only surmize that comment and input by a competitor isn't appreciated on this forum...

I'm trying to understand what purpose or new innovation the Rohrbaugh R45 is supposed to add to the market as it is currently proposed.  I mean really, a relatively heavy all-metal single stack 45 with a long (although smooth if like the R9) DAO trigger?  Why will this pistol sell in the market that has a variety of on or inside the belt CCW-worthy pistols to choose from?  Simply because it has the Rohrbaugh name, will have limited production, and carry a hefty price tag?  I don't get it...

I wanted to see a true pocket carry pistol in 45 caliber.  I've played with the crude AMT Backup -- even converted a new High Standard production model to 10m Auto., looked at the Kahr PM45, but still was anxious to see what the Rohrbaugh brothers were capable of producing.  I remember discussing the R45 at the Orlando SHOT Show and first confirming it's development status on this forum as I was attending the show.  Now that I learn that the R45 was never intended to be a pocket gun, I'm disappointed -- and wish that had been indicated in my discussions at the Rohrbaugh booth on the show floor.  My G36 works fine (lighweight, reliable, accurate) for a belt carry CCW, so I'll stick with that.

Now that Arne is working on a pocket 45 design -- whether 45 GAP or 45 ACP -- I will be closely following his progress and have already indicated that I want to be on the pre-order list when it becomes open.  A true pocket pistol in .45 caliber -- the size of the Rohrbaugh R9S -- is truly innovative and will offer something to the market that has not been completely addressed in my opinion.  His use of a rotating barrel lock-up will aid in taming the preceived recoil of such a large bore pocket pistol.

Competition is a good thing!  8)
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: tracker on January 25, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
Fly,

Just for the record and to close the loop, we have communicated on this issue on a PM.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Heber_Guy on January 25, 2012, 09:39:51 PM
Fly,
I agree.
Heber Guy
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: tracker on January 25, 2012, 10:01:27 PM

Rohrbaugh is approaching an eight year track record; this is not an easy business.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Jack_F on January 25, 2012, 10:26:01 PM

Rohrbaugh is approaching an eight year track record; this is not an easy business.

Not easy for sure..I ordered my first R9 on  8/10/04....doesn't seem that long ago.... :o
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 27, 2012, 11:23:33 AM
Guys I'm travelling again this week and internet access is an issue. So I am catching up when I can...

A few quick points.

The response to the R45 at the show was overwhelmingly positive and there is a long list of interested dealers. 

Im not sure every new product has to fill a unique niche.  It's hard to do that on a recurring basis. But, I don't think there is a DAO .45 compact pistol on the market that is of the quality Rohrbaugh will produce.  It will not be inferior to comparably priced pistols by Baer, Brown or Wilson.

I don't personally like the vibe that Rohrbaugh screwed up this project. This is what Karl wants to do. This is his concept for an R45.  He can still sell every R9 he makes - so that's not an issue.  It may not be what everyone wants, but neither is the R9.

I don't mind hearing about the Boberg guns, and Arne is welcome to post here. But, I don't find him to be a marketing genius because he is considering a pocket 45 at some point in the future...  The innovation of his gun is all about reducing size. It makes perfect sense for him to do and I hope it works out. More guns is always a good thing.

As for the drop test. I'll ask Karl what he meant - assuming he said that. I think it's out of context. I think that reflects Karl's dislike for California and excessive government intervention - not a concern over his pistols passing a drop test.  Its very expensive to even get your guns approved in CA.  It's understandable that small companies can't justify the cost versus the benefit.


Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: MRC on January 27, 2012, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from DDGator
     
   " I don't personally like the vibe that Rohrbaugh screwed up this project."

I do not think they did either.  I hope that they are very successful with it.  I think where the problem was is when you announce something and let speculation run wild on what it is, and not clear up what the plans are early on.  I feel the way it was introduced was their only mistake.  No one likes Rohrbaughs better than the members here but I think you let them down.

Lets face it, this forum helps sell a lot of guns for you guys.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: tracker on January 27, 2012, 12:39:16 PM

It is my understanding that CA also requires a manual safety among other things. If that is the case a drop test would be irrelevant to the R9. All of this "drop" discusssion sounds like much ado about nothing to me. Give Karl a chance to do his thing; the market will sort it out.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 27, 2012, 03:41:30 PM
Quote

 No one likes Rohrbaughs better than the members here but I think you let them down.

Lets face it, this forum helps sell a lot of guns for you guys.


Maybe this is a mis-communication, but I am not sure why you are adressing me in particular.  I am only a conduit for information as it relates to the factory.  Because Karl and Eric are friends, they sometimes tell me more than I can reveal publicly at any given time. However, I don't make any decisions about what info to release.

And just for the record, they didn't know me from Adam when I started the forum. This was my idea. While they usually appreciate the exposure, the forum sometimes causes them problems too.

Again, there are good and bad aspects of releasing info early. Many companies do not. I'm not sure there is a good answer.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: flyandscuba on January 27, 2012, 07:51:32 PM
If the R45 -- as it is currently designed...were actually an "R10 -- in 10mm Auto", I'd definitely be interested.  But, an all-metal single stack 45 with a long DAO trigger -- I just can't think of a reason to forgo one of the other options currently on the market for a IWB CCW 45 Auto...especially at a premium price that is being proposed.

Maybe other will find a way to justify the purchase.  I wonder though, how many have to be sold to cover the R&D and tool-up to produce such a product?  It seems to me that there would need to be a hefty appetite in the market to surpass the break-even point.  But then, I'm not an economist -- even though I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night! ;)
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 29, 2012, 09:30:02 PM
I don't know how much for R&D - a lot I am sure.  They were, however, very encouraged by the interest shown at SHOT. The gun was received with a lot more enthusiasm than one might suspect from reading this thread!  ;)
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Richard S on January 30, 2012, 06:55:43 PM
After reflecting on the matter, I have not expected the R45 to be a "pocket pistol." I think the R9 has pretty much reached the margins of the envelope for that small a semi-automatic pistol that is controllable by the average shooter. At my age, I don't have much left to prove to myself and am not particularly interested in owning an EDC pistol that is punishing to shoot. (Even John Taffin admits to certain limits in that regard.)

Based on Karl's and Eric's well-known admiration for JMB's 1911 design, I've thought that the R45  could be a Commander-sized handgun (or Concealed Carry Officer's size) -- perhaps slightly smaller -- that would be best worn belted (OWB or IWB), very concealable under a vest or jacket, and built like a Swiss chronometer. And I want one. My initial letter asking to have my name placed in line for one was dated January 18, 2007. I really do want one and expect to be as thrilled to receive it, whenever that may be and regardless of serial number, as I was back in May 2004 when I received my R9 No. 132.
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: DDGator on January 30, 2012, 09:52:48 PM
Point well taken, Richard.

I think 9mm is the best "compromise" caliber for a pocket gun.  A tiny 5+1 .45 ACP is not going to be easy to shoot.  One could definitely argue that 6+1 of 9mm would be a more effective pocket gun package than 5+1 of .45 ACP.  I don't think a micro R45 would replace my R9.

I too would like a belt gun that runs like a custom 1911 in a silky smooth DAO with no thumb safety and no grip safety.



Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: mz368 on January 31, 2012, 08:52:26 AM
The benefit of a concealable belt gun in a large caliber (R45) and an R9 in the pocket with the same controls and the same feel and trigger pull should not be overlooked.  Skills learned with one should translate well to the other.  Not a bad thing for a self defense pistol.

While it's not quite what the quote may have been meant to convey, I am reminded of the saying, "Beware the one gun man, he probably knows how to use it".
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Aglifter on February 02, 2012, 08:01:38 PM
I don't know how much for R&D - a lot I am sure.  They were, however, very encouraged by the interest shown at SHOT. The gun was received with a lot more enthusiasm than one might suspect from reading this thread!  ;)

Some of us may have been encouraging people to go look at it... ;D
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: Dr. Gonzo on February 04, 2012, 04:13:00 PM
i like the idea of the R45 not being a "pocket gun". The R9 is the perfect pocket gun already, light, reliable, unbelievably well made custom gun. So the R45 can be the best "Belt Gun". Having handled it at the SHOT Show i can honestly say there was nothing that came close to fitting that good in my hand from any other manufacturer. I went to Kimber, Sig, Colt, Smith, and countless others, checking out the new sub-compact 45's and everyone of them was heavier, bulkier, and fit and finish was better on the R45(and its only a prototype!). Considering the fact that the R45 weighs somewhere between 19 and 22 ounces, uses an officer mag and has a Rohrbaugh badge on the side tells me the company made a wise decision, one that doesn't abandon their fan-base or values. I don't ever recall Rohrbaugh declaring itself a pocket-gun only brand, it may have shook up the firearms world with an absolutely amazing feat of engineering, but they never once came out and said: "we only make small guns". To back yourself into a corner from the very start is stupid. It takes time to establish a name in the industry and they did just that with the R9. Now is the right time to expand it's horizons. Maybe a full size 45 target model is next? Or a race gun? Who know's. Whatever is next, expect it to be more of the same: Practical, easy to use, and well made.

Hat's off to Boberg for his ambition btw, a 45 GAP ought to be fun to sell. Making something in a caliber of little relevance in today's market or little advantage over the 45 ACP isn't exactly what i'd call practical/ marketable. Remember the last time you went to the shops and asked the nice man/woman for a box of 45GAP? Remember receiving that confused look, expect more of the same. Propagating a design that is both more complicated and even less proven compared to an R9, but claiming superiority is also gutsy. So is the stroke of creativity in the names "XR-9" and "XR-45", add one whole letter and it's off to the courthouse.... I like the "XR-9" , it gives the Rohrbaugh Brothers some competition, i wish American Handgunner would do a side by side comparrison of the small 9's already.

Oh and Mr. Boberg The R9 and 380's are drop tested to 10 feet. Twice the height required by NYS. *See your comment on the GunsAmerica Article on Rohrbaugh @ SHOT 2012*
Title: Re: I take it that the Rohrbaugh booth at SHOT does not display an R45.......
Post by: PsychoSword on April 24, 2014, 08:38:26 PM
i like the idea of the R45 not being a "pocket gun". The R9 is the perfect pocket gun already, light, reliable, unbelievably well made custom gun.

I don't. the AMT .45acp Backup is a pocket gun, and an old design. No reason why we can't have an R45 pocket gun.