Author Topic: Yet another range report  (Read 6299 times)

Offline Toddm

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Yet another range report
« on: October 31, 2009, 11:11:26 PM »
Well I finally decided to try one of these little guys out.  I normally carry a custom bobtail commander 1911 but figured the R9s would be easier to deal with in a lot of situations, where I currently don't carry at all.   Funny part is while most people probably freak at the price of the R9s coming from high end 1911's they are down right inexpensive.  I ended up with the stainless slide version.  They had an elite that looked nice but it was an extra $600 and that seemed a little crazy to me.

Overall I was impressed with the fit and finish, pretty smooth, good trigger pull for a long double action.  The rifling in the barrel to me looks really thin, perhaps to keep pressures down, but the lands look about 1/2 as tall as most handgun barrels I have and the surface of the lands looks very rough.  However, it's not a target gun and it shot more than accurate enough for it's purpose.  I didn't see any evidence of keyhole tears in the targets.  

100 rounds of 115gr winchester white box through it with no hiccups.  

50 rounds of Remington UMC 115 gr FMJ it hated with a passion.  For whatever reason it would not extract the spent casings about 30% of the time.  The empty casing would be half way out of the chamber, then the slide would go all the way back and try to chamber a new round out of the mag slamming it into the empty still half way in the chamber.

20 rounds of Gold Dot 115 gr no hiccups.   Interesting actually because I figured there was not way this stuff was going to run well.  When I had all 6 rounds in the magazine it was very tough to get the first round to chamber.  It would nose right into the feed ramp strait and get stuck.   In shooting so far anyway (I don't consider anywhere near 20 rounds enough to consider it reliable with that ammo, 100 maybe). they ran fine.

I've read where a lot of people's R9s's shoot low but at least from 5-15 yards mine seemed actually a bit high but only a couple inches.

Recoil was stiff but no worse than a 342MP with 357 rounds and not nearly as bad as a 329PD with hot magnum 44 loads.   Certainly not a "joy" to shoot but it was controllable, reasonably accurate.  No problems shooting with one or two hands, both weak and strong.  

If it stays reliable with 115gr win white box and the gold dots I'll be  happy with it.  I'm used to guns that run near 100% with any ammo, but again concessions have to be made with super short/small guns.  If it runs WWB and gold dots 100% that's okay with me.

Take down is a little fussy, but again this isn't a frequent range gun so it's not a huge deal.   Lifespan of 200 rounds on the recoil spring is a little disappointing but again it's not a range gun, and that's just the limitations of shooting something with a super small stroke and short spring.   That and new recoil springs are only $5 so that's not a big thing.

Only other thing that concerned me and doesn't seem to be an issue shooting is the mag springs are super tight on that last round, so tight that when you load 6 in the mag and insert the mag it puts a pretty significant dent in the second cartridge in the magazine.  Again at least with winchester white box and gold dots it didn't effect feeding.  

Overall, impressed, nice workmanship, if it stays reliable with the 115 grain loads it will allow me to carry in a lot of situations where before I would not have been able to.

Offline Fat Boy

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2009, 08:25:19 AM »
Welcome and great report, thanks
Good Luck,
Fat Boy
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Offline Richard S

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 11:38:56 AM »
Toddm:

Welcome to the Forum, congratulations on selecting the R9, and thank you for the extensive range report. These little masterpieces, as you note, can be particular about their diet, but I think you will find yours to be absolutely reliable with the right fodder.

Good luck, and again welcome to the Forum from another fan of high-end 1911s.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 11:40:41 AM by Richard_S »
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Offline theirishguard

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2009, 11:46:18 AM »
Toddm, welcome to the forum and a very good range report. Post often and enjoy.  Tom
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Offline yankee2500

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 03:28:08 PM »
Toddm, welcome to the group. Good range report, hope you enjoy your new pup.
John
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Offline Toddm

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2009, 04:48:34 PM »
Thanks for the warm welcome.

As an update I pulled the gun down and cleaned it last night and I did find some things that have me somewhat concerned.   I'm out in the field right now so I can't post pictures yet, but I will when I get back.  I'll do my best to explain in words but I know pics are needed.

First was that the area of the alloy frame where the take down pin is appears to have been deformed somewhat on both sides right above where the pin would go through the frame. For lack of a better term it looks like it was "squished" inward where the barrel assembly sits into. This might have been there before, they kind of look like tabs built into the frame that the barrel lock up area would butt up against.  So perhaps just the wearing of the black off of them is making them stand out, but they do look like more deformation than built in to me.

Second there was some significant dimple like denting in the two long 1-1.5" recesses right above that area, not part of the frame rails but inside and below them.  It almost looks like you put a BB on in there and hit it with a hammer, a couple circular like dents in the recess.  Those I am sure where not there when new.

Third was that there was a lot of metal shards in the area of the frame where the recoil spring assembly sits into, and the smaller round void that sits directly behind it.  It was not from the brass casings, It was silver and soft, I'm assuming from the alloy frame somewhere, however I couldn't find an obvious source.  

It also appeared there was quite a bit of wear in the long tunnel void in the front of the frame, what I'd refer to as the dust cover in a 1911, mostly along the edges where the slide travels but also along it's inner round surface.  That's probably pretty typical wear.  

The gun was disassembled, cleaned, and lubed, before it's first range trip so I'm pretty sure none of that stuff was an issue before it's first range trip.   It does concern me that the alloy frame seems to have taken so much wear/damage in it's first 150 rounds.  Everything seems super smooth and tight once it was cleaned and lubed again.  So maybe it's just part of everything seating in.

When I get some pics up maybe others can comment if it's normal wear or something to be more concerned about.

As another update, from doing more searching (helped once I figured out the search tool was only searching 7 days by default!) it seems like the wear I'm seeing is normal, and mine actually is less than some of the other posts I've seen so I'm not going to worry about it and just make sure to be even a little more liberal than I usually am with the lube, I run them pretty wet anyway and like grease on the high wear points.

I really only plan to replace the recoil spring and put another 100 or so rounds of WWB through it, about 60 more rounds of gold dots, and it if runs those 100% I'll only shoot a couple mags out of it now and then to cycle through carry ammo.

I still think it's a great little gun, it's very purpose specific and I'm sure that does not work for some people's expectations, but that's why there are hundreds of different guns to choose from!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 07:38:54 PM by Toddm »

Offline Fat Boy

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 03:58:08 PM »
I look forward to seeing those pictures.
Good Luck,
Fat Boy
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Offline kjtrains

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 04:58:15 PM »
Toddm.  Welcome to the Forum.  Thanks for the specific report and wish I had some answers for you.  I've not had any problems with my R9s and only use Winchester Silvertips 115 gr.  Never tried anything else and don't intend to as long as performance remains this good.  Best of luck in establishing your R9's diet.  I always say, use only the ammo that's recommemed here on the Forum and problems are usually eliminated.
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline Richard S

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 07:40:50 AM »
Toddm:

It sounds like ordinary wear from seating in to me, although the photographs will help. There are some owners who report having run 5,000+ rounds through their R9s, with regular spring changes. I think you have a reliable piece there. Just keep it clean and well lubricated and feed it what it prefers -- which would appear to be 115-grain Gold Dots and WWB.

Good luck!
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"

Offline Toddm

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2009, 04:48:46 PM »
I had decided not to post pictures since my wear seemed pretty "normal" but now that I have a chip in the frame a couple other users have reported I think I will.  

It's tough for me to accept this much wear/damage on a new gun I have to admit.  I have guns with 30K+ rounds down them that don't show this much frame damage.   It's been reliable with 115 WWB and 115 GD's but it still bothers me to see this kind of frame damage in under 250 rounds. It seems like for most people the wear happens fast early and then settles down and I'll probalby only cycle carry ammo through it from now on so I may never hit the 1000 round mark but it doesn't inspire confidence in the gun to see the frame taking this much damage. Perhaps there's no way to make Al durable in this design.  I'd gladly take a couple extra ounces of weight for a steel frame that would stand up.

I know several have posted there are some R9's out there with thousands of rounds through them.  I'd love to see some pictures of their frames to see how the wear is progressing.  It's just really tough to see that much wear and deformation in a frame and tell yourself it's normal and no big deal.

In addition the last picture is another issue that bothers me.  I've noticed now that the slide is putting significant dents into the casings of the top shell in the mag when it rides over it for the first 2-4 rounds in every mag.   If you load up a mag wtih 6 rounds and put it in the gun and cycle them out the first round is clean, the second, third, and fourth shells will have these dents in the casings.  Worst in the 2nd round and gets progressively less to the fourth and is gone by the 5th It's not an ejection issue.   That can't be good for feeding and reliability to be doing that much damage to the casings as it's cycling.

I still think it's a good gun, and it allows me to carry a effective caliber in places/situations I could not with other options so I still see it's value.  It's just too bad the frame isn't more durable or that the design does not keep this kind of damage from happening in just a couple hundred rounds.  Rohrbaugh might consider it normal but I think if you showed it to anyone familiar with guns (but maybe not with Rohrbaugh) they would not consider this normal wear by any means.









« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 05:34:04 PM by Toddm »

Offline sslater

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2009, 01:31:48 AM »
Toddm,
Another welcome to the forum.
I have an early R9S, purchased new in 2005.
Total rounds thru my gun = 1600.  The scarring you show in your gun is much, much worse than what I have in mine.  (And I was not happy about the scoring /scarring mine has.)  

The original Rohrbaugh lube instructions were to use Superlube grease in the areas which look so beat up on your gun.  And that's why I've stuck with grease in those (obviously highly loaded) areas.  I did switch to Brian Enos's SLIDEGLIDE, which I've been using on my other semi-auto pistols for many years.

Here's a shot of my R9:

The red stuff in the picture is that SLIDEGLIDE I mentioned earlier.

Those transverse scars at the front of the frame (the dust shield area??) look to be from scrapings and junk that accumulated between cleanings.  I guess that's why Rohrbaugh recommends cleaning / lube every 50 to 80 rounds.
I don't know what to make of the big gouge in the frame right in front of the hammer......

The dents in the cartridge cases don't seem to affect function in my gun.  Just a result of heavy spring pressures needed to make this lightweight gun function reliably.  Loading and unloading the gun frequently seems to add to the case denting, so I don't!
(BTW: I'm very 'religious' about changing my recoil spring every 100 - 150 rounds.)

Sorry for the sloppy photo, but it's getting late and I wanted to show you a photo of a veteran R9S.



Offline Toddm

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2009, 04:21:00 AM »
Yeah I put the grease in there pretty heavy, I've been using Wilson's ultimalube grease with a little bit of oil as well.   I read the lube instructions and figured the little guy took a lot of pounding so I've made sure it's really lubed well.   It was also pulled down and cleaned/lube before it's first range trip.   It got a new spring at 150 rounds after the first range trip, and I ordered 5 more the other day.

Yours definitely does not look that bad, especially for the round count.  From your picture the wear looks much more even and smooth as one might expect with a high round count.  Where mine seems to be more damage/deformation based than just wearing the anodizing/coating off where parts move.  

I suppose as I put more rounds through the gun it will either ease my mind or get progressively worse depending on how the wear continues.

Offline ChasenGreen

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2010, 10:44:32 PM »
You guys are making me nervous.  I just ordered mine a week ago.

  Greem

Offline kjtrains

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 08:30:32 AM »
Green.  Congratualations on ordering the R9.  
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline theirishguard

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Re: Yet another range report
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 11:33:48 AM »
Green, welcome to the forum, don't worry you'll love your R9 Tom
Tom Watson, DVC , Quis Separabit ,  Who dares wins, Utrinque Paratus