The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: _itsBert0287 on April 29, 2012, 04:03:45 PM
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Purchased the Covert R9, which to the best of my knowledge is an R9 with Tuff Finish from Wilson Combat.. I paid a hefty price for the Covert model but to be clear.. prior to visiting the range I LOVED the Covert in all asthetic and dry-firing aspects. I am a detective in a urban area of NJ so the ability to comfortably carry something off duty (with stopping power) is worth the price..
Two days ago was my first day at the range with the R9.. our rangemaster and about a half dozen SWAT guys were there.. until this point, I've only owned department isued glocks. The only malfunctions I've experienced have been simulated with dummy-rounds etc..
I was shocked to have two malfunctions on my very first magazine, and three on my second most were failure to fire, and failure to eject. At first I thought it was possible that I wasn't letting the trigger out all the way in between pulls.. but I grabbed a few other guys including the range master and the malfunctions persisted.. on average 4 out of 10 shots. I was shocked.. everybody's reaction was the same "you gotta send that thing back"..
I know malfunctions can and do happen when breaking in a new gun, but the Rohrbaugh. Was brought to my attention by a 2009 magazine article that compared about 6 pocket guns.. the rohrbaugh tested in the article was a .380, however the author marveled at how the rohrbaugh was the only gun tested that performed flawlessly (not 1 misfire) in over 500 rounds..
I inspected several of the casings that took more than one pull to fire, some had no firing pin impression! I called the Texas Dealer who shipped me the Covert (which was brand new btw), and he told me that he'd never received a complaint after selling approx. 50 similar rohrbaughs but he said he'd call me back after doing some research.
He did call back; and said after calling his Arkansas distributor he was told that they've had several returned for the same reason. However, he said that these malfunctions are due mostly to 'operator error' basically saying that the R9 does not favor a slow and deliberate trigger pull. He said that being a defense gun the trigger must be jerked in rapid succession for the gun to cycle properly..
My question is, is this true? And if so would misfires still be that common? I mean maybe it's my training, but 'jerking' the trigger is almost impossible for me, especially with a DAO setup.. what if I don't want to shoot someone 6 times? The dealer gave me some contact info for a Woman named Maria from Rohrbaugh, I plan to call on Monday.. I'm considering driving to the Rohrbaughs shop/factory in NY due to my close proximity to dave the hassle of shipping the gun and the wait..
I'll also be attaching a picture of the Covert, and pictures of the type of ammo I was using; in case that may be the problem.. note: one picture (green box) is frangible ammo that was available because we were at a location that also has an indoor range, but I was told this should make no difference.. and to be clear I have no objection to paying for very expensive ammo, so long as the gun will fire. SOMEONE please steer me in the right direction because in all other aspects the Rohrbugh is the best option for me, I just want it to work!
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Ammo used
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Bert. Welcome to the Forum. Sorry to hear of your problems with the Covert. You are on the right track by calling the factory and speaking to Maria. She is very knowledgeable and can tell you exactly what to do and how. Again welcome and keep us informed, if you will. Thanks.
An addition: Backup, a member here on the forum had a problem with his Covert and sent it back to the factory. He does have it back and seems to be working fine.
Well, back to my original post. Remember I had sent the Covert R9 to the factory which found an "out of spec" firing pin retainer to be the cause of failures to feed and breech locked open. It was repaired and returned, but I could not get one of the four grip screws out (had trouble with the other three which had a white glue on them...loctite white?). Stripped the screw eventually. Karl kindly sent me a UPS number and I returned the pistol at his expense. After several weeks and after sending off for a "tool to do a screwectomy" (medical humor in his words) they were unable to solve the problem. They have replaced the frame with a new one (new serial #), noting the that finish on the frame is factory even on the Coverts, and they have tuned, polished, etc. everything else to Covert standards. Should arrive here tomorrow 2 day UPS. Looking forward to getting it back...I'll get a few hundred rounds through it and start to carry again (I hope!). I'll give followup.
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Bert,
Welcome to the forum. I too am very sorry you are having a problem with your covert. I have called Maria a couple of times for orders. She is a pleasure to deal with.
I have been lucky with my Robar and I have not had any malfunctions. I will be putting 60 rounds through her for a qualification in May.
I realize that these pistols are pushing an envelope due to their size. I wish they were as reliable as a Glock out of the box but that is asking too much for a pistol like this. I am sure once it gets checked out at the factory it will be fine. It will then take you some time to be confident with it as an EDC pistol. Please keep us posted.
Robar233
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Hey Bert
Welcome to the Forum.
I have always used Speer 115 grain Gold Dots and have been very successful in doing so.
You may want to give them a try before a factory visit.
If you send it in for Warranty work they always expedite the repair and you should have it back in less than a week! :)
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Did you try any of the ammo from the same box as the R9 misfires in a different firearm?
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Like was said above I would run some Gold Dots through it before sending it in.
-Ryan
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I too am sorry to hear about the problems you're experiencing with your covert. As for ammo, I've shot 124gr. Gold Dot HP through my R9s with no issues whatsoever. Concerning the trigger, my R9 doesn't care if I pull it slow or squeeze it fast. The gun always goes bang. If trying different ammunition doesn't work, then as the others said, Maria is a very nice lady and will take very good care of you.
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wow.. thanks guys, very helpful..
I will definitely give the gold dots a try before sending it back..
I did not try using the 9 mill ammo in any other guns but I'm fairly sure SWAT was running it thru their MP5's, and also I tried from more than one box of same type ammo..
M9x, thank you for clearing up the trigger pull hysteria.. I didnt know what to think when I was told that originally!
again guys thanks for all the help, I'll be sure to keep you posted!
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Bert, welcome from E. Tennessee also. I also bought a Covert from the Texas dealer which failed to feed and sometimes failed to fire. The firing pin retainer was out of speck and moved far enough to the side to graze the inside of the slide during firing, thus slowing the action enough to affect function. You can take it apart and gently move the retainer with a small screwdriver...if it tilts back and forth, it is out of spec. Karl Rohrbaugh said that this was almost unknown, and was uncertain whether the problem occurs at Wilson Combat although Rohrbaugh continues to warrant the pistol. If the retainer is clearly moving, call Maria, ask to speak to Karl and suggest that perhaps the return to the factory should be on his dime.
Mine has worked flawlessly since that time, and is my daily carry. Do remember that small close-tolerance pistols are ammo sensitive and, amazingly, have varying preferences from one pistol to the other. Mine shoots most anything, but Lawman for practice and gold dots for carry work best for me. Note that one owner couldn't get his to function with 115 and 124 gold dots, but it loved 147. Another's loves the 115's, so there you are! When you find a box that works well, shoot 13 and carry the other 7 since ammo now varies in quality even from box to box from the same manufacturer. Also remember that the R9 likes to be lubricated, and should be taken down and cleaned before the first range trip, and after every firing for proper function.
Good luck...John
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Bert, welcome to the group and congrats on the new pup. I'm sure Rohrbaugh will get your pup up and running.
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Sorry to hear of your problems. No, I'm not the selling dealer. I would follow Ryan's suggestion and try Speer Gold Dot ammo, either 115 or 124 gr. Tom
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welcome.
only problems i've ever had were due to ammo, but since going to standard pressure GD 115gr (do not use PLUS-P) its cured.
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And a welcome from me as well.
Your concerns have been well addressed in the previous posts. All I might add is that these R9s are like Ferraris. They have minimal tolerances, need to be kept clean and well lubricated, and like to be fed only the best. Each one tends to have its own personality. Find out what yours likes, get to know it, and carry it with total confidence. I have mine -- for what will be in two more weeks the past eight years.
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UPDATE:
"please, just call me Carl.."
yesterday (roughly a week or so after sending my covert back).. my phone rang, it was Carl Rohrbaugh.. I was pretty shocked that he called me. He wasn't too specific about what the problem with the Covert was.. but he recommended some ammo (see below), and he told me they replaced a bunch of stuff in the gun. He didnt say whether or not it was out of spec, but sounded like just to be on the safe side they did. He was a really nice guy, and the overnighted the covert back to me which I just received.. I haven't been to the range yet, I'll need to grab some ammo, but I wanted to give you guys an update since you've all been so helpful.
the ammo Mr. Rohrbaugh recommended was the Federal Premium Guard Dog 9mm FMJ w. expanding polymer (105 grain).. a link to a youtube review of the ammo is below.. seems like good stuff. I believe he also said they haven't been a huge fan of Remington lately due to primer issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA7f69skz9g&feature=related
thanks again for the help and I'll be sure to update you when I get some time on the range (hopefully this week)..
thanks, - Al
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After watching the video and hearing the conclusion, I don't think I'll be using any for my SD rounds. ( under penetration ( 8.5"), consistent jacket separation and they also said they have tested 380s that had better penetration.
It may make the gun work great but stopping the threat is job 1 and you need a round that will do both.
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Gaurd Dog was offered in a heavier grain bullet - maybe it still is to LEAs. But the 105gr EFMJ basically turns a 9mm pistol into a 380 ACP.
The only reason I can see someone using the Gaurd Dog is if they have weak hands, are extremely recoil sensitive or something like that. As you can imagine, a 380 ACP round fired from a 9mm pistol is usially going to be pretty manageable.
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I have also read where Karl carries Silver Tips in his personal pistol. The only reason I can see to carry them is if they are the only round the gun will feed and you are in love with the gun.
I have not seen a good exterior ballistics test on Silver Tips in 20 years. Very old technology.
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I sent you a private message, please reply back when u get a chance.....
Thanks,
Dominick
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I have also read where Karl carries Silver Tips in his personal pistol. The only reason I can see to carry them is if they are the only round the gun will feed and you are in love with the gun.
I have not seen a good exterior ballistics test on Silver Tips in 20 years. Very old technology.
Exactly why I stopped carrying them, although the gun functions well with them I want a round that functions well on the other end.
With development of the Duel Bond, PDX1 Defender and the Platinum Tip pistol ammo, I believe Winchester has not upgraded the Silvertips as MRC suggests.
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I still like the Silvertips; know the technology is old, it's just something about them..............I've started recommending the Gold Dots since firing them in the Boberg and will continue, however, one R9 still gets the aformentioned. :)