The Rohrbaugh Forum
Administration => Forum News and Feedback => Topic started by: mismatch on March 10, 2005, 09:23:26 AM
-
Greetings Gentlemen,
New member here, been trying for months to join this illustrious and astute group of gun owners, had to get another I.P. to get into this well put together forum, it is a pleasure and honor to be part of this gathering. My R9 and Hadley back pocket holster are both on order :) My question is...those of you that own the R9, or the R9s, would you have rather chosen one or the other? Up close and personal are the sights really necessary? I point shoot and have taught point shooting under the appropreate conditions and circumstances. Any and all comments are welcome, thank you.
mismatch
-
Even for point shooting, I rely on the front sight.
Maybe Eric can introduce a third model -- the R9fs (front sight) ... I'm being completely serious about this.
-
Fudster,
Your point is well taken,.. my son is a State Trooper in my state and also a range instructor, and they put much emphasis on using the front sight in a combat situation and do much training along those lines. Thanks for the reply.
mismatch
-
Mismatch, Welcome to the forum. I always thought that sights were not needed in a pocket pistol. If needed, the range is close so just point and shoot. Also the sights might hang up on clothes, pocket & etc. However, the sights on the R9S are perfect-small,fixed,melted with enough there to be useful.In other words, won't hang up on anything and give the shooter enough of a sight to aim or guide his shots. This gives the owner extra confidence that his shots will be well placed and that is a good thing. Most of the R9s I have sold have been with sights. It also gives the owner the ability to shoot better in practice. The R9S is by far the most popular. Tom
-
Thank you Tom,
This is exactly the kind of infomation I was looking for, the gunshop that I ordered from has a large shipment of R9s coming in and some with and some without sights. I was seeking the advice of those who had owned and shot both models, does it make any difference when the holster is ordered from R.J., as I ordered for the R9S.
-
mismatch
The fit of the holster is not effected by the sights, or the lack of...
Thanks for the order
RJ=
-
I will concur..
You cannot go wrong with RJs leather.. ;D
I have the "sight" model and I likey very much.. 8)
Brenden
-
Mismatch - a warm welcome to you! :)
I have sights on both mine - and had not actually considered a slide without. That said - I do feel that for most part point shooting useage is most likely. I prefer the sights tho because it does give me a slight edge on the longer shot if needed
I have not found the R9 sights to be any embarrassment regarding snagging - they are just too devoid of sharp edges to be a problem IMO.
-
Thank you for the Welcome, --again " Honored" to be part of this forum. Chris, I also highly regard your opinion concerning sights or no sights, it looks like I made the right choice.
A question I might ask!......are you or anyone else familiar with the lubricate called " Slide-Glide" I have been using it for a while on all of my semi's and really believe it provides excellent lubrication and is long lasting coverage on all moving parts. I don't know if this product has been mentioned on this forum before or not? Appreciate any knowledge or comments concerning the use of it.
-
''Slide Glide'' ... not come across it myself.
I think tho regarding semi lubing - R9 in particular - despite the Super-lube recommendation from Rohrbaugh - the most critical required feature of a lube is IMO ''persistance''. Couple that with some content of extra like moly, teflon etc.
There are many good greases around and as long as a film persists thru useage then I doubt we will have any problems. Just oil willnot be enough - too easily displaced plus capillary creep etc.
Add to that the other recommendation - of field strip, clean and lube - every 50 or so rounds. This will pretty much ensure that nothing ''goes dry''.
Check here or on my FAQ site (see in my sig) .. there are pics of the main lube areas per Rohrbaugh suggestion.
-
mismatch,
Another welcome!
Chris' site has just about everything you will need to know about cleaning your R9, plus a lot of other really helpful information. I actually printed out his page on lubricating the R9 and keep it with my owners manual.
Click here for a link to the super lube product page that explains the characteristics of the super lube grease. (http://www.super-lube.com/product_description.htm) It's very interesting stuff.
As if the R bros didn't pay enough attention to detail in designing and building the R9, their recommendation of the Mobil1 and superlube, which are both synthetic, just goes to show how truly meticulous they are.
Hope you find it helpful.
- And another vote for the sighted R9 (I think that's the new term :) ). You can use them if you want to, but they don't get in your way if you don't.
-
Wayne,
Thank you for the welcome and information. I truly think that the members here are the most helpful and responsive of any forum that I've visited and belong to. Chris's site is very informative and will be my guidelines for proper cleaning and maintenance. I will have on hand the Super-lube, and Mobil 1 before my R9S arrives, ( cannot have to much gun cleaning products!) :-/
Thanks again,
Fred
-
I guess I missed this thread -- or didn't realize what it was about....
I vote for the R-9s as well. They are no real detriment to the gun, IMHO. Better to have them and not need them. The best thing about this gun is that it is capable of accurate, sighted fire at obscene distances -- so the sights are worthwhile.
That being said, I have shot Eric's personal gun (seral #2), and it has no sights!
-
Duane,
I saw the picture of Eric's gun on your factory tour thread and noticed it didn't have sights, as well. Does Karl have sights on his R9?
-
I did not see it, but I don't think so. The sights were truly an afterthought on this gun. The original design called for no sights.
-
Greetings Gator,
I find this post to be very intriguing. Did the Rohrbaugh brothers mention to you just why the addition of sights were a after thought? I still appreciate all of you that gave comments on the virtue of having sights on the R9, but I'm still having second thoughts about that, I guess in my case it's because I've had such good luck in up close and instinctive shooting, and maybe thats do to with all the practice that has been done over the years. When I was quite young ( which was a long time ago!) I was introduced to a man that was a quick draw artist, and was admazed at how he could draw, fire and hit a target with a single action revolver at a fairly good distance not using any sights! I was able to talk to him and he said it was instinctive and required a lot of practice .......I don't know.. having sights on a handgun such as a R9..could that possibly be a mental deterrent? These are all thoughts, open to conjecture!
Fred
-
Well said Fred. It is nice to be able to chose one with or without sights. Tom
-
Fred - I'll reiterate something I mentioned before i think - and this is just me.
Bit like having a gun - better to have and not need .... etc ...
When I bring up R9 for a fast shot - I am barely aware of the sights - not to mention my old eyes making it hard to get better than grade A1 blur! :P So in a sense, with the sights presenting no distraction at all - I am effectively point shooting.
However - if time allows - as it might with a significantly longer shot - then I do like to see the traditional sight picture, even if blurry! It does IMO give an edge when pushing the envelope to maybe 20 - 25 yards.
OTOH - I guess I could say too - if I didn't have 'em - maybe I wouldn't miss 'em! :)
-
Mismatch,
If I recall correctly, the original prototypes had no sights. The R-Bros felt it was unnecessary for the intended use of this pistol. Feedback from prospective customers, however, indicated that sights were desired by a lot of people, even on a pocket gun. Some suggested that it was negligent on their part not to include sights! The R-9s was born...
I agree with the "better to have and not need" crowd. You can point shoot with or without sights.
The "miscalculation" by the R-Bros is that this gun, being built to Karl's precise specs, is capable of far more accuracy and range than they may have initially thought. ;)
-
Gentlemen,
Again thank you for the informative information regarding sights or no sights. I shall refrain from this subject until I have my own R9/R9s in my hot little hands and can speak more authoritatively on this matter.
I spoke to Maria several weeks ago and she said she expects the order to take another 2- 2 1/2 months, the order was placed in october. It's been said that half of the fun is getting there, I don't know who said that " but they must of been on drugs" after reading this forum all the time and I go to bed and dream about that pistol!! I can imagine it's the same condition that all of you have gone through also. I will say this, I'm a very lucky and grateful person, as I have recently moved up north, and with my son and daughter's property adjoining mine, I have 30 acres to test the new hand gun out on, what more could a gun-nut ask than that!
Fred
-
Fred, That sounds great, living close to family in this day and time. In addition you have some land to play in!! Tom
-
Having just acquired my first Rohrbaugh, an Rs, and taken it down and put it back together, I can attest for the need for the front sight. It catches the corner of the bench and assists in holding the slide back enough to insert the barrel pin. Can't do that with the R.
HiCap
-
HiCap,
Lol, your message is well received and appreciated!
I have had my R9s for several months now and I'm delighted that all I have to use to disassemble and reassemble is a wooden toothpick. It could not be easier,.... although I will test your method the next time I do a cleaning.
Thanks for the comment, ..... I might mention I have over 300 rounds put through my pistol, and have had only one glitch ( FTF ) and it was I feel my fault! Love this " Gun" !
-
Mismatch, I had two FTF's yesterday out of 7. Golden Saber. Fired on second strike. Only problem I've had out of about60 rounds of Winchester Federal 9BP and Blazer.
I'm not of the school of carry a lot, shoot a little; my school is if I carry it a lot I want to shoot it a lot, or else I'll carry a brick.
Incidently, the manual that came with mine, # 8xx, called for spring replacement after 250 rounds.
Thanks.
HiCap
-
HiCap,
I guess I must have a very good R9s, .. although I do clean it a lot and talk to it once in awhile! ;) I spend much time in and around my two barns and I'm always evolved in some kind of dusty, dirty work, and have noticed dust and small pieces of pocket lint, straw, grass between the slide and frame. When it gets like that which is practically every day, I go back and crank off a couple of rounds just to make sure it would be good to go if I needed it!
The primary round that I carry is 147gr Federal Hydra-Shok JHP, it seems to be the round she likes the best and I get the most accuracy out of.
I also shoot 124gr FMJ American Eagle, mostly to practice with, and even some DFA Frangible rounds, just to see if it will tolerate whatever I put through it so far with that one exception she has been just great.
-
Hello everyone, quick question here, for all of you point shooters (most, if not all of you, I'm sure), do you have any advice on how to learn point shooting? Is there any way to learn it faster or any technique? I have been contemplating purchasing a book or video but I am not sure if it will be a worthwhile investment. Please let me know what your thoughts are on this!
-
Woo-Woo .... my take?
No vid needed, no specific training - it's all down to you!
Essentially start close - from a retention type hold, fire at a target from 3 yards - 10 feet let's say. See where shots go and register that in your muscle memory - keep at it 'till you are approx centered.
Expand distance then to 15 feet and repeat - again getting that ''feel'' from grip and gun general hold - it will maybe surprise you just how well you can remember the ''feel'' of the hold that works.
if you succeed at that range then stretch to 20 feet - and see how you do.
To be honest I don't really think point shooting is needed as such, other than at extreme close ranges - all but ''bad breath'' distance. ;D
Personal ''training'' is IMO all that is needed.
-
Chris, I've also been thinking about Point Shooting.
Thanks for your remarks on the subject.
It seems like worth trying. I'm glad you mentioned use of the Retention position.
Bill
-
Chris,
I'm going to try your point shooting routine at my next range session on Monday. Looks like you have the Michigan contingent thinking "close range". The few rounds I've fired from my R9S unsighted indicate that it points pretty well in my hand. (Not necessarily true with other guns I own. Glock 22 was the worst, to the point I sold it!)
BTW: I find the R9S sights very useful. For my aging eyes the front sight width / rear notch width is just about perfect. As good as my old standby Ruger Mark II.
-
I'd add - my references were solely to my personal interpretation of point shooting - I believe views vary on what is or isn't actually such.
For me the prime concern is being able to shoot with passable accuracy other than sighted, tho it is possible still I reckon to be point shooting with the gun up to head level - but then no use at all of sights or barrel alignment optically - just very ''instinctive''.
I don't think it matters too much what we call it - as long as we develop at least some ''feel'' for what we can do in an emergency.
-
Awesome, thank you R9SCarry, I will definitely have to do that the next time I go shooting, hopefully by next weekend. I'll admit, I was strongly debating whether to get the R9 with or without sights (when I finally do get to order one), and I think this thread actually made up my mind. As it was said before, it is better to have it and not need it than vice versa.
Steve
-
Hi Mismatch,
I wanted a R-9s but could only get a R-9 at a gun show. I do ok "point" shooting without sights out to about 15 feet. After that I don't do as well, though I still keep most hits in a 12" area in the target out to about 21'. I know that most deadly force confrontations "usally" take place within 10', but I believe that Murphy was an optimist, and that if I ever have to defend myself or my family the BGs (Bad Guys) may be farther away. So as I've always told my kids, "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it." I see we think alike in that area. The sights on the R-9 are not that big and I don't think they would cause any type of problem drawing the weapon. If fact I had a problem with my R-9 slide and sent it to Rohrbaugh for repair. I asked that the R-9 slide be replaced with a R-9s sighted slide. Karl Rohrbaugh was kind enough to do that for me, so I'm looking forward to shooting my "sighted" R-9s.
-
Now that is a good deal!!
Tom
-
Greetings Edman,
Please excuse the long delay in responding to your post.
Putting things up for the winter has made me neglectful, and of course taken me away from this " Great Forum". I usually don't post unless I have something meaningful to say!
Your move to have a sighted R9 was a good one, as you are aware by the previous post I had the same concern myself. The R9s is a awesome little handgun, and the accuracy is uncanny, I'm affiliated with many full time shooters and all that have fired my R9s could not believe how accurate it was.
I have had my R9s since mid July and have fired over 500 rounds through it, myself and friends together that is.
I had did a report after the first 300 rounds, and had only 3 malfunctions and two of those were most probably my fault ( rounds not push tight against the mag wall and possibly releasing the mag while gripping the pistol. But.... but.... after changing out the spring after the first 400 rounds I've had many FTF, and numerous jamming problems. The feed ramp is polished like a mirror, and it seems to do this regardless of the ammo that I am using, so I'm a bit concerned about the reliability of my " PUP" . I will go back to the original spring and see if the problem still exist.
I also might mention that I did the " Drop Test " with my R9s ... ( unintentionally ) I was accustomed to carrying the Pup in a DeSantis front pocket or RJ,s rear pocket holster, and I purchased a Kydex paddle, and had begun to carry it in that mode,........well..... to make a long story short after arising from the pot I stood up and the Pup went flying out of the paddle and hit the tile floor with a loud noise ( which my wife heard from the other room ) other than the chip taken out of the tile, there was no damage to the pup at all, I immediately went out back and emptied the mag that was in the gun and it fired flawlessly, this was of course with the first and original spring. And that sick feeling in the pit of the stomach subsided, man was I ever scared! The Pup is now place on the counter before I even think of doing any other business ;)
-
mismatch, I know the feeling. It happened to me one time with my Seecamp .32 in a public restroom in the world trade center. The guy in the stall next to me jumped out of his skin and got the heck out of the bathroom with me to follow.
Tom
-
I realize you've probably already heard this, but you did check to make sure the spring is in correctly, right? -- I too have tested the drop test, but mine stayed in it's RJ holster -- got knocked off the nightstand
-
LOL, .. Tom that is pretty funny, thank the good Lord I was not in the World Trade Center, I'm sure my pulse what have quicken twice the rate that it was here in my own home.
You know like you, I have been around weapons and all types of firearms my entire life, even worked as a professional gunsmith for two years, but one never knows with even the most caution what can happen. How many safety classes I have taught, and something like this can still happen, the irony of a situation like that is maddening. Can never drop your guard. :-[
-
Greetings Aglifter, yes I'm positive the spring was properly placed correctly. Like I had mentioned I will go back to the original spring and give it another try.
I don't believe I will be doing the drop test again any time soon it is utmost on my mind whenever I have to detach myself from my trousers.
Thank you for your concern, I'm always open to criticism and suggestions.
-
Hi Mismatch,
I understand about not being able to get online here everyday, work and other chores always seem to get in the way of important things like, playing golf, skiing, shooting and reading posts on this forum. I have my pup back from Karl R. It now has a sighted slide, so I guess it is now a R-9s. First shot with the new slide at 15 feet firing a Speer 115 grain GDHP – dead center in the bull’s eye! Subsequent shots were all within 1 1/2 inches of that. I've had a couple failure to fires with UMC 115 gr FMJ, but that may have been hard primers. With only about 40 rounds fired with the new slide I feel I'm still breaking it in.
Good luck with working out the problems with your pup.
Ed