AMMO question

[TeamCORBON]

We're looking to produce a standard pressure 9mm load for guns like the Rohrbaugh.

The only bullet we've found that can be driven fast enough to reliably expand is a Barnes 80 gr.  We've loaded some of these to light sandard pressures and got the following:

1,300 fps (G19)
300 ft-lbs energy
15" penetration in 4 layer denim clad 10% ballistic gelatin
100% retained weight
.53" recovered diameter
Very soft shooter from the Glock 19.

We're not sure what the velocity difference would be from the Rohrbaugh's barrel.

We can't get reliable stabilization of the 115 gr X bullet from short barrels at standard pressure.

We'd like your opinions on this.  Good and bad without flaming please.  Email me or reply here.

Thanks,

[IDM]

Hey
Im no expert!1 But it sounds ok to me!!
Id prefer a softer recoil myself, with the 80 gr.
With 15" of jell , it looks like it has enought energy.
There is the fact that it will pass through fewer walls in home deffence use.
Hope this helps!!
I personal like input from these guys on the stuff i make.

Hey Id like to offer my sevices using my R9 to test some of your new ammo combinations!!  


Welcome to the fourm!!
You will find some good guys here with alot of insite!!

Thanks
Bryce Proctor

[riffraff]

TeamCORBON,

Personally I think your bullet choice is excellent.

Somewhere on this forum is quite a long list of loads that have been chronographed through an R9.  It is suprising that with a barrel as short as the R9 it does not lose a lot of velocity and as I remember from the listing the velocity of most loads was suprisingly high.  Someone will post a link or point the way on the info.  I am refering to I am sure.

Just remember since you are wanting a load for short barreled guns that you should use a relatively fast burning powder also.  This will keep velocity up and cut down on muzzle flash.  

You guys know more about all this than I do but you asked for opinions.

Mike

[Jason]

It sounds like it might be a good load .I am no expert but be aware of bullets tumbling a bit out of the rohrbaugh the barrel has some free bore to it. The speer gold dots tend not to tumble much or very often I assume it is due to the bullet design itself. If your load would work I would buy it for sure I have always held your ammo in high regard.I am really glad you folks have interest in making a load for this gun I hope it works out.

[Brenden]

The listing is in Chris's valuable FAQ section up top!!
I copied and pasted the info here..
Link is Here
I am all for another ammo,especially from a well acknowledged company as Cor-Bon,to be able to feed the pup!!
BTW-welcome to the forum..
Brenden



Combined data from ammunition tested thru Rohrbaugh R9s. Updated Sept 16 2004

Hi, Lo and Average velocities are in fps. Muzzle energy (ME) is in ft lbs and is based on average velocity.

Note - in at least two cases one low velocity has severely increased the spread figure and so severely reduced the average ... which in turn leads to a downrated muzzle energy. If you choose to disregard those exceptional low velocities, then a more useful result may be deduced.

Note 2 - Now that more data has been added, I have added symbols against examples relative to the session in which they were fired. The first test is shown as ''†'', the second test as ''‡'' and the latest, test #3 as ''*''. The chrono during test #1 was significantly closer than my now chosen std of 6 feet, and so figures come out a little higher.

MFR  TYPE  # SHOTS  LO-VEL  HI-VEL  AV-VEL  SPREAD  SD  ME  
Speer‡  Gold Dot 115 JHP  4  1056  1068  1061  12  5.19  287  
Speer‡  Gold Dot 115 JHP  5  1053  1078  1064  25  10.77  289  
Speer‡  Gold Dot 115 JHP  5  1066  1077  1065  11  4.97  290  
Speer‡  Gold Dot 124 JHP  5  990  1039  1010  49  17.94  281  
Speer‡  Gold Dot 124 JHP  5  1003  1045  1017  42  16.18  285  
Speer‡  Gold Dot 124 JHP  5  1003  1021  1013  18  6.78  283  
Speer *  Gold Dot 124 JHP  10  975  1042  1020  67  19.05  286  
MFR  TYPE  # SHOTS  LO-VEL  HI-VEL  AV-VEL  SPREAD  SD  ME  
Federal†  American Eagle 124 FMJ  5  762  926  885  164  N/A  216  
Federal†  'Hydra-Shok' 135 JHP  5  892  920  906  28  N/A  246  
Federal†  'Hydra-Shok' 147 JHP  5  799  825  821  26  N/A  220  
Federal‡  'Hi-Shock' 115 JHP  5  995  1034  1014  39  16.70  262  
Federal‡  'Hi-Shock' 115 JHP  5  977  1039  1003  62  23.60  257  
Federal‡  'Hi-Shock' 115 JHP  5  984  998  991  14  6.08  251  
Federal‡  'Hydra-Shok' 147 JHP  5  806  840  823.5  34  12.92  221  
Federal‡  'Hydra-Shok' 147 JHP  5  816  855  828  39  15.93  224  
Federal‡  'Hydra-Shok' 135 JHP  5  910  925  917  15  6.24  252  
MFR  TYPE  # SHOTS  LO-VEL  HI-VEL  AV-VEL  SPREAD  SD  ME  
Remington†  Golden Saber 124 JHP  5  981  1003  993  22  N/A  271  
Remington‡  Golden Saber 124 JHP  5  934  1004  979  70  26.66  264  
Remington‡  UMC 115 FMJ  5  601  1029  925  427  181.88  218  
MFR  TYPE  # SHOTS  LO-VEL  HI-VEL  AV-VEL  SPREAD  SD  ME  
CCI*  Blazer 115 JHP (Al case)  10  963  1011  983  48  16.00  247  
MFR  TYPE  # SHOTS  LO-VEL  HI-VEL  AV-VEL  SPREAD  SD  ME  
Winchester†  White Box 115 FMJ  5  1025  1038  1037  13  N/A  275  
Winchester*  White Box 115 FMJ  10  985  1033  1008  47.42  14.35  260  
Winchester*  White Box 115 JHP  10  960  1014  987  54  16.79  250  
Winchester*  White Box 147 JHP  10  955  1007  976  52  17.40  311  
Winchester*  Silvertip 115  10  1023  1046  1037  23  7.28  275  
Winchester*  Ranger 147  10  811  868  850  57  15.09  236  
MFR  TYPE  # SHOTS  LO-VEL  HI-VEL  AV-VEL  SPREAD  SD  ME  
Igman†  124 FMJ  5  960  1035  997  75  N/A  274  
MFR  TYPE  # SHOTS  LO-VEL  HI-VEL  AV-VEL  SPREAD  SD  ME  
''A-Merc''†  115 FMJ  5  353  373  365  20  N/A  34  
 

NOTE - The last ammunition on this list (A-Merc) shows very unusual results. It was the last in a test series but the chronograph was set-up exactly as for preceeding tests, although the light level had dropped. It cycled the gun, tho hard to believe! The odd thing is that the five shot string shows quite a small spread, making the readings seem viable, despite absurd low velocity. In time it is hoped to run a further test on this ammo' to see if it is truly as low as it seems from this test! Either way, it seems very poor quality indeed, with deformed (plated) bullets common.

[TeamCORBON]

We're going to contact Rohrbaugh and see if we can get a T&E gun to see if the bullets will stabilize.  The hard copper doesn't bite into the rifling as we as the softer lead/copper bullets.  It looks like we're going to do this, just want to make sure they will work in this pistol.

[Richard S]

TeamCORBON:

Thank you for posting the above information and requesting comments and suggestions from members of the Forum.  

As my comment, the described standard-pressure load using a Barnes 80-grain bullet would appear to have real promise.

As a suggestion, which I make as a long-time advocate and user of your Glaser line of ammunition, I personally would welcome a standard-pressure Safety Slug (Blue, Silver, or both) in 9mm Luger (9mm Parabellum). According to my understanding, your 9mm Makarov Safety Slug is loaded to standard pressure. If I am correct in that regard, it would seem feasible also to produce a standard-pressure Safety Slug in 9mm Luger. Were such a round to become available, I would be one of the first purchasers and would carry it in my highly prized Rohrbaugh R9.

Thanks again for the posting.

[chameleon]

Mike, you may want to talk about the .380 ammunition that you developed for the Seecamp pistol, it may work well in the new R380 model.

[TeamCORBON]

The 380 DPX load wasn't designed for any specific pistol.  We used a Kel Tec P3AT to develop it.  We try to use the most commonly owned/used handgun for a particular caliber. It just so happens that the Seecamp pistol is very small like the Kel Tec so they are a good match.

Our 380 loads are within pressure specification from SAAMI, so they should work fine in any 380 pistol including the R380.

[ccoorreeyy]

I look forward to trying these out.   When might we start looking for production ammo?
Corey

[st_albert]

Hi, Mike,

I would be really willing to volunteer to beta-test these rounds!  

As you are no doubt already aware, the Rohrbaugh has a short barrel and lots of freebore from the chamber to the start of the rifling.  This means it doesn't stabilize many rounds usually chosen for self defense from among the "standard pressure" offerings.  

So that could be an issue, in that if a round tumbles, (e.g. the Remington Golden Sabre standard pressure round), it likely will not expand.  For example see Chris' excellent site, particularly here:

http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/r9s-tests-02/basefile/expand2.htm

near the bottom of the page.

If the R bro's won't lend you a gun, I stand ready to fill in the gap!

Albert

[jeffgraham]

I'd love a softer shooting round.  I really like the 65 gr Aguilla I Q ammo. Very accurate and soft recoil out of my Rohrbaugh.  Alas it apparently is no longer sold in U. S..  High velocity, light bullet works well for Aguilla.  Perhaps it will for Corbon.

[riffraff]

jeffgraham,

I too discovered the Aguilla 65gr ammo long ago.  It was the first round that functioned 100% in my guns.  Problem is it also keyholed 100% of the time in my R9's.  Are you sure this ammo does not keyhole in your R9?  What range do you shoot at?

Mike

[theirishguard]

thanks so much for all of your efforts. Look forward to hearing how they run in the pup.  Tom

[Jack Foulard]

On the abcsystems FAQ there was quite some detail about tumbling and the following conclusion or speculation:

http://www.acbsystems.net/boards/rohrbaugh/basefile/tumbling.htm

CCI blazer and Speer Gold Dot have almost identical OAL and tend to be longer than other ammunition.

This might be a key to having a stable Corbon bullet.

I look forward to more information.