The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: jimacp on September 18, 2004, 09:25:57 PM
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Ok, I love the R9, but what do you carry when you are carrying something larger/more powerful/or more capacity. In other words, when the R9 is your backup, what is your primary?
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Jim ... you may have seen me mention elsewhere .... my primary is and has been for some time - my SP-101 .. with CT grips. Capacity of course is not good .. but I keep one speedloader (Safariland Comp 1).
Reason is - simply - it is a gun I am very familiar with - almost ''instinctive'' for shooting. That to me means my 5 will be possibly as or more effective than even 8 .45acp or 10 plus 9mm.
However .. I used to carry P95 a lot earlier on .. and still like it - if a bit ''fugly''! ;D
Recently bought a Smith SW99 ..... and am seriously considering that as another carry option when I am familiar enough with it. It is incredibly accurate .. easy to shoot and so .. all in all ...... a pleasing gun. Just 9mm again of course.
I did after getting a P97 carry that for some while ..... which ''upped'' me to 45acp ... and I still like that too .... spoiled for choice you might say.
In the end tho - the SP still comes out as fave ... it ''nestles'' so well under my right 12th rib .. and is easy to conceal.
Here are the SP - and SW99 (sorry - lousy color balance!) .. followed by the P95 (P97 looks exact same really).
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/sp-101_s.jpg)
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/sw99-s.jpg)
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/p95_s.jpg)
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Glock 26 9mm with MMC adjustable tritium sights, 8 lb. NY trigger spring, 3.5 lb connector, and extended slide stop, loaded with Cor-Bon 115 gr. JHP +P.
This gun is as small as a Smith & Wesson J-frame and when loaded weighs no more than an all-steel J-frame. It can be carried in the front pocket of a pair of relaxed fit dress slacks with a Kramer pocket holster, although I usually prefer to carry it IWB. It is more accurate and easier to shoot than many full-size guns, although the short grip takes some getting used to.
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I like and own the Glock 20, 23 and 27, Walther p99, Sig 229, 220, 210-6, and 226, S&W 686 and 3913, and HK p7, and I sometimes carry any one of them. But, and I hate to say it because I did not like them for years, my favorite carry gun is a lightweight 1911. I switch between Kimber Ultra Carry with CT grips, Colt Commander XSE with CT grips, and Wilson kz45 Compact. I originally wanted to like 1911's, but bought and traded several over the years and never loved them because I didn't trust their reliability, and wanted higher capacity. However, over those same years one thing became evident to me. No matter how nice and reliable my other guns are, the lightweight 1911's carry and shoot better, for me, than anything. While I had to work on the Kimber to make it 100% reliable, all three now never bobble. The one thing I consistently notice at the range is that I can hit more quickly and more accurately with the 1911's than I can any other gun I have tried. I know everyone has their own quirks, and what works well for one person might not for another. This isn't to say "my choice is best" because it is not...except for me. Anyway, while I sometimes miss the high capacity Glocks, Sigs, Walthers etc, the fact remains that i can hit my target faster and straighter with the 1911, so I have compromised on the capacity issue. It took many years for me to go back to the old, and some would say outdated, 1911, but for me it can't be beat in its inherent "shootability".
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[size=13]I can hit my target faster and straighter with the 1911, so I have compromised on the capacity issue[/size]
There we are :) - this is it in a nutshell Jim isn't it ... we are saying same thing in essence .. but have different platform choices. As I said earlier, I concede my drop in capacity, simply because of the ''hitability factor''.
I can shoot 1911 also pretty well ... and if only my P12-45 was what I could regard as reliable, it could well be doing duty at times. Even my Sistema, tho full size and basic .. is most useful.
My lack of use of 1911's is really because I never got practiced at condition #1 carry .. same with my BHP .. and now it seems too late in life to reach a level of perceived carry safety that I can accept ... tho of course many many folks manage just fine. OTOH, my P95 and P97 - and now too the SW99 ... all allow me the luxury of decocking and are ready for D/A - S/A mode and very safe carry .... practice with this mode has enabled me to feel sufficiently at ease and competent when I do carry such.
Bottom line - as ever - what works for the individual. (And pray we never need to check this out ''in extremis''.)
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Chris, I agree SW99 is a great gun....I like Glocks too, except I just don't feel comfortable safety wise with them...S&W99 and Walther 99 feel safer to carry to me than Glocks, but have all of the other great characteristics of Glock...dependable, lightweight, high capacity, indestructable...anyway, its interesting to hear other people's opinions of different positives and negatives for them of certain guns...take care...
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While I do not have one yet, I am hopeful that my primary/only carry gun can be the R9S. My social environment is such that TOTAL concealment is the only way I'll be able to travel. Plus, I do not have a "dangerous" environment where I work or play. But, in times when even going to your local ATM can be problematic and where some travel routes to get to certain places in downtown Detroit can be iffy, I want to have something along. The concept of the Rohrbaugh being a 21st Century 9 mm revolver has appeal. I am also at a stage where less is more to me. I am no longer interested in owning many different firearms-only what I need-and shoot well.Time will tell if it still makes sense to me.
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Hi Chris,
The first time you try drawing a gun in condition 1, you will flub the safety manipulation. By about the fifth time, the safety manipulation won't interfere with your draw. Before long, your thumb will go through exactly the same motion whether your gun has a safety or not, dependably every time. Wiping off the safety is the simplest part of the drawstroke.
Start practicing by disengaging the safety when the gun is pointed downrange. Later, move to disengaging as soon as the gun clears the holster.
I think you'll find, as some of us have, that there is NOTHING that can place a faster, more accurate, harder-hitting first shot on target than a .45 1911 carried in condition 1.
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Bill - I agree with you re speed ..... what I did not mention was that I did in fact shoot quite a bit in old days - club compo's - using 1911 thusly. I got on with it quite well.
My problem tho is simply one of confidence I think - not re the shooting part - I still swipe a safety almost reflexly so no prob there. No - it's more a lack of trust if you like. I am an engineer and have an innate mistrust of many things mechanical.
I know ''in theory'' ... if safety is on ... yeah, it's on ..... but somehow just not at ease with that for full time carry. Call me a wuss, or paranoid .... just cannot get at ease, and so this is more the reason why I stick to D/A - S/A when auto's are in the carry frame.
For you and others who manage this for carry - you are I am sure about the quickest from draw to first shot .. and an accurate one at that ... no dispute on that score!! :D
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Hi Chris,
My early model Para P12 has a Wolf 24 lb. recoil spring, 10 percent extra power magazine springs for it's five magazines, and a Wolf spring in the Slide Stop/Safety plunger assembly. It works pretty well. For the modest price of the springs you should see how they affect your P12's depedibility. I also added Trijicon night sights, an ambidextrous safety, and an Ed Brown beavertail grip safety to mine. It carries well in a Kramer MSP holster. I like it better than the Para Limited series guns that I own.
Frank
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Frank - hmmm you have gotten me thinking .. usefully! That 24# spring .. how does that rating compare with the std.? I think I will try some mods like you . sounds useful.
Where do you go for Wolff springs?
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www.gunsprings.com
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Thx Dick - will check it out.
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Gotta' carry an approved pistol at work. That includes basically no mods or extras. I have a pair of G33s and a P32 for potential problems. Rohrbaugh &/or the P32 come with the rest of the time.
They ain't a pretty bunch but I don't feel lacking.
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The 1911 .45 cal. is still the king in my mind (some may disagree) and it is now made in some light, comfortable carry packages. I liked my lightweight Colt officers model but the Para Ord Warthog is really nice.
If I know I'm going into a serious social situation, I'm taking a shotgun, personally. But, if it has to be a handgun, the .45 is my choice, and a single action 1911 style gun/trigger is definitely my choice.
The Rohrbaugh looks wonderful. I hope to find one this week end. But, to me, it's the kind of gun to carry when you really don't want to carry a gun.
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My usual primary weapon when the R9s is in the "backup" role is a monogrammed Colt 1991A1 Government Model -- customized, "melted," and hard chromed by Clark Custom Guns and equipped with Sambar Stag grips, BoMar adjustable sights, and a pulsating LaserMax for night work. (This tack driver is a pure pleasure to view, to hold, and to shoot. It is one of the luxuries with which I have indulged myself in the twilight of my years.)
RS
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My "primary" gun during the work week is the R-9. When I can carry larger though, I do. My larger guns are 1911 variants, with the exception of the Ruger SP-101.
How about a picture of that gun, Richard?
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Duane:
I am nowhere near the league in which you and Chris play when it comes to digital photography. However, I shall try to take and post a photo of the Colt in the next few days.
RS
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Chris, When you look at a glass of water that is half full. Do you think it is half full or half empty? Or is it the wrong size glass? The .45acp is my favorite, officers model or defender both light weight with night sights. Just work on the safety dedent. Tom
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Daily carry is either G23 in Sidearmor Gen 4 or Sig 232 in some noname leather I found at flea market stuck in my briefcase. I don't like off body carry so I need to keep saving my beans for my R9s. Unfortunately the dishwasher just died and there goes the disposable cash. Oh well.
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Tom .... hmmm half full/half empty!?? haha ... the old faithful.!
These days ''half full'' ... I have learned to try and temper pessimism! :D Mind you - the ''wrong size glass'' is for sure another approach!
I certainly, re carry, do favor large ... not being phased by weight .... and preferring, if not cal benefits, capacity. 226 is currently doing duty tho once hot weather arrives, probably back to SP and R9 BUG. Mind you - R9 still sees BUG duty even now.
I did, not long ago pick up an NAA mini in .22 mag, with the spare cyl for .22lr (similar to Duane's IIRC) ....... here is a pic - I have some others too, as yet not processed for size. This gun is of course totally the other end of the spectrum and not really relevant to this particular thread!!!
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/naa-mini-28-s.jpg)
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Yep -- looks like my little gun exactly, 'cept I didn't spring for the conversion cylinder. I had one before and found that I never used the .22 LR cylinder, so I didn't bother...
Now THAT is the gun I carry when I am not carrying a gun...
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Chris, It sounds great that the glass is half full. Now that is a gun as Duane puts it that he carrys when he is not carrying. My choice is R9 when not carrying and .45acp light wt., when I am carrying. The speed six still does truck duty all the time. Tom
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I reckon like you Tom, R9 is also my carrying when not carrying.! This mini is partly shere micro-engineering indulgence ... it is very nicely made. I have found tho that this is perhaps the most concealable of about anything - in the ankle region ... better even than R9 and so - it will at times be ''on board''. :)
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One just has to make a decision about what to carry, each time out depending on what one is wearing, weather & etc. If you start going with multiples, sooner or later you over load the body with extra weight that can slow you down. HAHA Tom
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I've pretty much settled on 2 guns and 1 knife for most purposes. Spare ammo for the primary gun but not the backup.
Those mini-revolvers are very nice. I have the .22 lr. version and the .22 mag. version is definitely on my future purchase list. They are the only guns that I can wear in an ankle holster with the sock pulled up over the holster, and have it look like a bunched up sock and not something huge stuffed in the sock.
The only problem is that no one makes a really good ankle holster for it. The only one available is the one from NAA, which is not bad for what it is, but has no padding between the gun and your leg. I'd also much rather have the gun held in by molded leather rather than the retention strap. The strap is easy to release with my index finger while drawing, but I have on a few occasions bumped the holster and unsnapped the snap.
Check out the "down under" holster from Ron Graham.
http://www.palehorseholsters.com/prod01.htm
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>>Myhobbit a NAA mini in .22 Mag...! Yep...Myhobbit for sure...!...TW<<
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My primary is a Glock 36. By BUG varies. The NAA 380 Guardian, the Rohrbaugh R9s, or a NAA Mini 22 mag with a 1&5/8 inch barrel.
I carry the mini revolver in a Ron Graham neck holster. Usually only in the winter under a sweatshirt.
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Until I get a Rohrbaugh, I have a NAA Guardian .380 in a pocket holster...or when dressed a little heavier this beauty that I just had breathed on by Gemini Customs.
(http://photopile.com/photos/logical/family/169976.jpg)
(http://photopile.com/photos/logical/family/169978.jpg)
(http://photopile.com/photos/logical/family/169980.jpg)
(http://photopile.com/photos/logical/family/170104.jpg)
I have lurked a while but this is my first post.
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With apologies for the quality of the photography, and thanks to Duane and Chris for the assistance in understanding the process, here is a photo of my Clark Customized Colt 1991A1 with its LaserMax activated.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/5cbeaaf2.jpg)
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Logical --
Welcome to the forum! Nice gun! A few of us here have SP-101s... Tell me about the work you had done -- how much, how long, etc.
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>>Hi Logical...and welcome around...!...
Nice revolver you have there! I sorta went the S&W route some years ago but have been very impressed by several of the SP 101's I've seen around here - especially like Duane's 9mm.
I take it you had the hammer on your Ruger worked down? Was it originally a full blown hammer or does Ruger make any sort of bobbed versions for the 101s? I echo Duane's desire to here all you have done to that puppy...?...!...TW<<
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Logical - welcome - :) Indeed, SP's are owned by several of us, myself included.
Richard ... that pic you wanted to show ... you got the url outside of the ''img'' tags - like so .... darn - no luck :(
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh dear - does not seem to help - sorry!
(http://)http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/5cbeaaf2.jpg">
If I re-arrange so that the tags enclose the url we should see your pic ....
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/5cbeaaf2.jpg)
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Dang - that didn't work - couldn't even edit that post. Something odd here.
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Chris and Duane:
Thanks for the help. I went back and posted the photo at the bottom of the previous page.
RS
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Thanks for the welcomes. The SP-101 is the 3.25 inch barrel .357 mag. as most of you already know. I bought it many years ago and always liked the feel of it. I tend toward keeping a few guns I really like around (OK, nore than a few) as opposed to just having a large number of guns. Since the SP-101 was a favorite, I had for a long time planned to get a "Jack Weigand"-"tame the beast" package done to it. By the time I got around to it, Weigand seemed to be out of business or at least not taking on mass quantities any longer. I can't remember how I found Marc and Karen Morganti at Gemini Customs, LLC...might even have been on Weigand's site. As I understand it, Marc worked with Weigand, considers him a mentor and friend, and the torch has been passed to him for some of Weigand's packages.
For $229 plus shipping they slicked up the trigger action very nicely...about 10# was what I asked for, chamfered cylinder throats, crowned barrel, bead blast, bobbed/polished hammer, dealt with the cylinder endshake, polished the trigger smooth and knoked down a few other sharp corners, new springs, etc. For another $100 they'll port it. I didn't see the need with the 3.25 barrel and my medium velocity COR-BON .357s.
The grip is a boot grip from BadgerGrips or BadgerCustomGrips...something like that. The grip angle is very different from stock and is a one finger short of a full grip and it isn't cleared for all speed loaders (some might clear) so it's not for everybody. I like it a lot. I think eagle makes some that are cleared. I believe the gun was gone several weeks or a month but I didn't put a rush on it and it was just before the SHOT show timeframe.
Add it all up and I suppose I've got way too much money in it but surely Rohrbaugh guys understand that isn't always the point.
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logical:
Beautiful gun! We Rohrbaugh owners certainly do understand the point to which you refer.
RS
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ogical, Did you get my answer to your PM? If not, please send me your e-mail address and I'll get right back with you. Nice wheel gun. I also have a Speed Six. Tom
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I looked at their website. I love the package you got. I have an SP-101 in 9mm that I love. I should probably keep it stock because it has some value being long discontinued... but that is tempting. I wouldn't do the porting either.
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When my R9S is my back-up, my primay CCW is a 7+1 round S&W 4040PD in .40S&W caliber ...
(http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f136-1.jpg) (http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f136.jpg)
... pictured above next to my R9.
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Fudster, Do you ever sleep? Tom
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I try not to ;D sleep takes up a great deal of time and isn't very productive.