The Rohrbaugh Forum

Miscellaneous => Classifieds -- For Buying or Selling => Topic started by: 5532JWK on July 27, 2006, 06:11:40 AM

Title: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: 5532JWK on July 27, 2006, 06:11:40 AM: I have the Winchester Ranger ammo available in the below listed calibers. Ammo is brand new. The handgun ammo is in 50 round boxes and the 12ga 00 Buck and Rifle Slugs are in 5 round boxes.

I do offer case discounts. A case of the handgun ammo consists of 500 rounds and the shotgun ammo 250 rounds.

Prices are plus UPS shipping. When contacting me concerning the ammo I will need quantity you are interested in and your zip code and I will furnish you with a total. Money order, cashiers check or personal check as payment please. No Paypal.

RA380T - 380acp 95gr - $22.00
RA38110HP+ - 38 special 110gr+P+ - $18.00
RA9T - 9mm 147gr - $19.50
RA9TA - 9mm 127gr+P+ - $19.50
RA9124TP - 9mm 124gr+P - $19.50
RA9BA - 9mm 124gr+P Bonded - 22.00
RA40TA - 40s&w 165gr - $22.00 - $18.00 ON SALE WHILE SUPPLY LASTS
RA40T - 40s&w 180gr - $22.00
RA40BA - 40s&w 165gr Bonded - $24.00
RA357SIGT - 357sig 125gr - $22.00
RA357SB - 357sig 125gr Bonded - $24.00
RA45T - 45acp 230gr - $25.00
RA45TP - 45acp 230gr+P - $25.00
RA45GT - 45GAP 230gr - $25.00
RA12005 - 12ga 9 Pellet Low Recoil 00 Buckshot - $3.00
RA12RS - 12ga Low Recoil 1oz Rifle Slug - $3.00

Contact me direct at jwkpatrick@yahoo.com if interested.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: Michigunner on July 27, 2006, 09:47:54 AM: Jerry is an outstanding guy to do business with.

I have always been very pleased with the purchases.

Bill
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: dfsutton on August 02, 2006, 09:02:48 PM: Is this ammo legal for Civilian carry?
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: Fud on August 02, 2006, 10:38:16 PM: Quote
Is this ammo legal for Civilian carry?
Depending on the jurisdiction. In most places, there are no restrictions against it.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: dfsutton on August 07, 2006, 10:50:30 PM: Ok, legal are desirable are definately 2 different matters. What do you think the Civil Suit liability of carrying this ammo might be? Will it hang you in court?
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: tracker on August 07, 2006, 11:22:35 PM: It may be like the BHP magazine safety removal where
a round cannot be fired without the magazine inserted
but it improves the trigger pull. This in itself does not create
a more dangerous and irresponsible weapon but may be
construed in court to be a premeditated and prima facie
measure to do harm to another person.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: Michigunner on August 08, 2006, 02:44:48 PM: I have never heard of any problems associated with using the LEO ammo. Never! We would have heard all kinds of stories by now.

If the police use it to stop a threat, then we also should be on safe ground.

If there is a legal action directed against one of our members, currently registered on this date, I will immediately send five dollars to be used in the defense. ;)

Bill
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: tracker on August 08, 2006, 11:23:55 PM: Bill,
With all due respect, the police can use a lot of things
that are not legal for civilians.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: flyandscuba on August 09, 2006, 03:05:20 AM: There is nothing illegal about this ammunition -- unless you live somewhere like New Jersey, where all hollow-point ammo is taboo.

There is nothing special about the Winchester Ranger ammunition that makes it any different than some of the other options out there in +P or +P+ loadings. It has a brass case, powder, primer, and copper jacketed lead hollow-point bullet like any other quality ammunition.

Winchester chooses to mark it as "law enforcement" ammunition, and intend it's sale to law enforcement agencies. That is strictly a business decision they've made -- nothing dictated by law.

To me, what better defense to use in a legal proceeding than, "I chose to carry the same ammunition that the local police use -- being assured of the product's proven quality, safety, and accuracy".

By the way, expecting that a potential jury might be comprised of at best gun-ignorant citizens -- or at worst, gun-hating tree-hugging anti-handgun liberals..... Which sounds more "wicked", Winchester Ranger -- or Federal Hydra-Shock -- or Corbon Pow'Rball -- or Corbon DPX (deep penetrating expanding) -- or Hornady TAP (tactical ammunition police) -- or Remington Golden Saber?
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: harrydog on August 09, 2006, 09:29:23 AM: Quote
There is nothing special about the Winchester Ranger ammunition that makes it any different than some of the other options out there in +P or +P+ loadings. It has a brass case, powder, primer, and copper jacketed lead hollow-point bullet like any other quality ammunition.

And that's why I don't think it's worth the premium that you have to pay for it. The mystique is what people are paying for in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: flyandscuba on August 09, 2006, 10:20:31 AM: Certainly, this ammo is a proven and excellent performer. It is my carry ammo of choice in .45 ACP. $18-$25 for a box of 50 is not what I would consider paying a premium -- considering you'll pay $12-$20 for a box of 20 in other brands.

Good stuff -- and completely legal... ;D
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: PursuitSS on August 09, 2006, 01:08:52 PM: Quote
There is nothing special about the Winchester Ranger ammunition that makes it any different than some of the other options out there in +P or +P+ loadings.

Winchester chooses to mark it as "law enforcement" ammunition, and intend it's sale to law enforcement agencies. That is strictly a business decision they've made -- nothing dictated by law.

I carry on duty Winchester 9mm 127gr. +P+, this EXCEEDS SAAMI pressure ratings for 9mm ammo. This is one reason Winchester will only sell it to Law Enforcement agencies. If some moron was to fire it out of some old junk bucket 9mm it might let go.

Also, if you visit several web sites of vest manufacturers you will find that they state: "Our vest will even stop Winchester 9mm 127 gr. +P+"

Recently, the newer Winchester 9mm 127 grain +P+ Ranger SXT bullet (product number RA9SXTP) has been found to penetrate some lower threat level soft body armor. Second Chance Body Armor Company recalled one of its vests in response to officer safety concerns posed by this particular bullet.

In the latest issue of the International Wound Ballistics Association's journal, Wound Ballistics Review, there's an article written by Duncan MacPherson, "A Body Armor Penetration Rumor," that explains the reason why the RA9SXTP bullet can penetrate some body armor. According to MacPherson, it's not due to any special aspect of the bullet design nor does its performance represent any new dynamics in armor penetration. He says it's due to a minor flaw in the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) body armor certification test protocol:

"There are two principal limitations in [the NIJ] rating system. The first limitation is that all armor with the same rating (e.g., passes level 2A and fails level 2) does not have identical performance; this is obvious (because there is no attempt to, or mechanism, for evaluating intermediate performance), but is often overlooked. The second limitation is that different bullet designs do not necessarily have the same relative efficiency in penetrating the quite different armor designs of different manufacturers; this whole area is not well modeled either analytically or experimentally."

Winchester tightly controls distribution of its RA9SXTP cartridge. When we last checked, Winchester did not permit its distributors to stock this load. It had to be shipped from the factory directly to a law enforcement agency address.

If you search on Google for Winchester 127 9mm vest you will find several "hits" on this subject.

There is almost no doubt this is one of the most effective loads available for the 9mm. (If not THE MOST EFFECTIVE LOAD)

PursuitSS
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: harrydog on August 09, 2006, 05:05:38 PM: Quote
Certainly, this ammo is a proven and excellent performer. It is my carry ammo of choice in .45 ACP. $18-$25 for a box of 50 is not what I would consider paying a premium -- considering you'll pay $12-$20 for a box of 20 in other brands.

Good stuff -- and completely legal... ;D
You're right. By all accounts it is an excellent performer, but on the other hand I don't think it is the magical bullet that some say it is.
$25 for 50 is indeed a good price for .45acp. Can you normally buy it for this price? I recall that it was always much more expensive when I've seen it for sale in the past, but I could be mistaken. I do know that it seems to be hard to find, so I've always been content to pick up Golden Sabers or Gold Dots when I see them for a good price.
I may just have to buy a few boxes of these in .45 though. You can never really have too much ammo on hand.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: harrydog on August 09, 2006, 05:10:15 PM: What about the 00 buck and slugs...how do they compare to the Remeington or Federal versions?
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: PursuitSS on August 09, 2006, 05:27:41 PM: Quote
What about the 00 buck and slugs...how do they compare to the Remeington or Federal versions?

It depends what your needs are, in my Sage International Sidewinder I use Remington 00 Buck 12 pellet Max load that is nickel plated shot and buffered. This is a commercial load as Police loads are moving towards "low recoil", low recoil means less $hit when it hits! I'll put up with the recoil to have more knockdown power!

(http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/si/wepmod/img2.gif)
This is a Sage International Sidewinder, it is a HIGHLY modifed Remington 1100 (or 1187). Mine has a Remington 870 top folding stock and a 12.5" barrel.

PursuitSS
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: bigyimmy on August 09, 2006, 06:16:07 PM: Some people are recommending 1 Buck over 00 Buck for shotguns that are used for defensive purposes. Below are some very good links for more insight. Their general thoughts are more pellets in the air for better hits on the BG and you are still getting 12" + of penetration. There is not tons of data on 1 Buck like there is on 00 Buck. These articles also talk about different brands.
Respectfully,
Jim

_______________________________________________

"Rather than the #00 buckshot load commonly employed by police agencies, #1 buck offers the best combination of stopping power, controlled penetration, and manageable recoil..."

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/shotgunpace.htm

________________________________________________

"Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma..."

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

_______________________________________________

"Some shooters prefer #4 or #1 buckshot over 00 buck. Real world one shot stopping success of the #4 buck is a respectable 81-83%. Data hasn't been collected for the #1 buck, but its performance should be even better...."

http://www.internetarmory.com/shotgun_ammo.htm
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: Richard S on August 09, 2006, 06:34:16 PM: Quote

It depends what your needs are, in my Sage International Sidewinder I use Remington 00 Buck 12 pellet Max load that is nickel plated shot and buffered. This is a commercial load as Police loads are moving towards "low recoil", low recoil means less $hit when it hits! I'll put up with the recoil to have more knockdown power!

(http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/si/wepmod/img2.gif)
This is a Sage International Sidewinder, it is a HIGHLY modifed Remington 1100 (or 1187). Mine has a Remington 870 top folding stock and a 12.5" barrel.

PursuitSS

PursuitSS:

I like that Sidewinder!

Here's what I use, a modified Winchester 1300 Marine Defender. It also "rocks"!

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/Oct1105.jpg)
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: flyandscuba on August 10, 2006, 08:01:56 AM: Quote

$25 for 50 is indeed a good price for .45acp. Can you normally buy it for this price?

The originator of this thread is offering it at $25 per box. Also, MAH Supplies (whom I've bought from) has it for $25.15
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: dfsutton on August 12, 2006, 12:27:51 AM: I'm itching to buy some, but I'm just a little nervous about liability issues.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: flyandscuba on August 12, 2006, 01:06:37 PM: I guess your concern is understanable. However, the liability exposure will exist from the use of any ammunition. No matter the brand or design of the bullet, you are ultimately responsible for the terminal resting place of each bullet fired.

If you are in fear of your life -- fire to stop the threat -- and hit your intended target. You are in about the same position regardless of the brand of ammunition. Unless your state law prohibits civil suit from the assailant or assailant's family following a justified self defense shooting (as in Florida) -- if the BG can get an attorney to take the case on contigency, you'll most likely face a lawsuit. Hopefully, the jury pool in your area will produce a decision in your favor.

Could the plantiff attorney attempt to portray the Winchester SXT ammunition in a negative light -- hoping to inflame a jury with sympathy for the plantiff that you were "looking to kill someone"? Absolutely. However, the same attorney -- with the same exact circumstances of your situation could do the very same thing if you had opted to employ a different brand/style of ammunition -- say, good ol' Federal Hi-shok (9BP) ammo. The attorney will try to make the jury think the Hi-shok is the most wicked device on the planet...

But then, the best thing is to select ammunition that you feel is best -- that will function well in your particular R9. The last thing you need when faced with the use of a handgun for self defense is the thought flashing through your mind, "will the use of this ammo get me sued".
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: 5532JWK on August 17, 2006, 06:12:39 AM: New 357sig Bonded Ranger just arrived.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: 5532JWK on September 13, 2006, 04:33:37 AM: Yes the Ranger ammo is still available.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: 5532JWK on November 10, 2006, 06:26:52 AM: Just received the 40s&w bonded Ranger ammo.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: jarcher on November 18, 2006, 09:34:28 PM: I carry the RA9T in my R9, but use Federal Tactical in my Sig 239 .40.

The reason I use RA9T is that it is standard pressure and tests as well as +P rounds in lab testing.

There is nothing illegal about JHP ammo for someone who is not a police officer (police officers are civilians - I was an Army MP, so I know). In NJ, it is not legal to use JHP for carry if you are not a police officer, but what you use in your home is up to you. Since pretty much no one can carry in NJ legally anyhow, it makes little difference.

As for civil liability, I am aware of no case in which this was a problem. As someone else said, if the police carry it, we are well advised to as well. No matter what you do, you can be sued. If you use ball ammo and it over penetrates, you will be sued. If you use JHP ammo and it does it's job, you will be sued. Face it, if you fire your pistol in self defense legally, you're very likely to be sued. Pick the ammo that does the best job in your pistol and for your needs.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: 5532JWK on November 19, 2006, 03:51:49 AM: Yes, the ammo is still available.
Title: Re: New Factory Winchester Ranger Ammo
Post by: 5532JWK on December 03, 2006, 05:03:23 AM: Yes all the listed calibers are available. Contact me direct at jwkpatrick@yahoo.com.