Author Topic: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low recoil  (Read 7808 times)

Offline r9newbie

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1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low recoil
« on: July 31, 2009, 12:19:51 AM »
Winchester 115 gr JHP ("white box", USA9JHP) and Federal 135 gr HP low recoil (PD9HS5H).  First time shooting this thing, just got it yesterday. Here's how it went. Had only enough time for a very quick test...

Targets in all cases were Shoot-N-C 7-inch diameter targets at 7 yards. Two-handed grip, standing position, no bench rests or bags, fairly firm grip.  Absolutely no failures of any kind occurred.

Three main groups:

Group 1 of 3:

Slow shooting, 12 shots of Win 115 gr., and all hit the target. 10 were within 3-inch group roughly centered, but ever so slightly low and left, but barely. Two stragglers within 6 inch group.  Not much evidence of tumbling - hard to see on the Shoot-N-C targets, maybe a couple questionable rounds but again pretty much appeared straight on.

Group 2 of 3:

Slow shooting, 12 shots of Fed 135 gr.  10 hit the target, 2 didn't. All were low and left.  5 rounds had slight evidence of hitting target not straight on, maybe tumbling, judging by the wear pattern on the target.

Group 3 of 3:

Fast shooting, 6 shots of Win 115 gr. JHP, 4 hit the target, 2 didn't. 3 hit more or less on center, 1 at about 4 inches off center.  3 of the 4 had ever so slight evidence of not hitting straight on (tumbling?) but not as much as the Fed.  Pretty much looked normal and mostly centered.

That's all I had time for.

Bottom line: Win 115 gr., which has been my standard self defense round for a few years, performed well in the R9s. Not much evidence of tumbling, well centered.  It performed better than the Fed. in terms of (what may be) tumbling and hitting at point of aim.

Other notes:

- made no attempts to recover bullets and check for expansion

- eager to try Speer GDHP's which will arrive in a few days

- sights are slightly hard to acquire, might go for painting some white dots on them

- I hate Euro-style mag release on the bottom of the mag, just doesn't lend itself well to primary carry piece / fine motor skills when SHTF for reloads

- R9s is a jewel in terms of workmanship

- I had zero failures in these first 30 rounds

- slightly heavy for pocket carry

- overall, I'm fairly impressed, but not sure where this piece will end up fitting in my arsenal... at best it'll be a backup piece in cold weather (jacket pocket carry), but I think the plastic-y Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 will still be best for pants pocket in summer months. The R9s is just too much weight in my pocket.  I walk differently knowing it's there.  That's a sign.

- main gripe: The mag release.  This gun comes with two magazines. I think it's nearly pointless to carry the second mag when it takes a lot of two-handed fiddling to drop the mag and insert a fresh one under pressure.. which is something you'd do only when under pressure.  It takes two hands on the gun, and also requires remembering how to hold the thing, deal with spring tension, release mechanisms, etc.  All while S is HTF.

Forget it.  It's a backup piece.  And what a fine backup piece it is!  Okay, in a pinch, I might carry it as a primary piece if I needed max concealability, but that's basically what my Smith & Wesson M&P 340 revolver does -- light, small, reliable, 38+P, one less round.

If the mag release were push button with the thumb it would be different.

Overall, quite happy with it, and absolutely impressed with the quality.  Again, just not sure where (or if) it will fit in my setup.  When SHTF there's a lot to be said for simplicity, consistency, reliability, with reasonable (albeit not the best) quality.  Saving your life trumps quality, period.

IMHO it's a niche, specialty piece, and a nice one.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 12:23:56 AM by r9newbie »

Offline kjtrains

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2009, 08:12:35 AM »
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the range report.  Good the hear the ammo performed well.
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline Fat Boy

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2009, 01:08:27 PM »
Welcome to the shooting gallery.  Thanks for the range report!  I carry the R9 daily and do not carry a extra clip so the issue of the mag release isn't as big a deal to me but I totally agree that I would've preferred a standard release.  I have the lightweight LCP and would much rather carry the R9, a little extra weight is just a non issue for me.
Good Luck,
Fat Boy
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Offline theirishguard

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2009, 01:36:59 PM »
good report and welcome to the world of Rohrbaugh.  Tom
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Offline Quiet1

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2009, 01:38:30 PM »
r9newbie,

Thanks for the excellent, comprehensive report.  I found your "Additional Comments" interesting and informative as well.

Glad to hear that the pup ran flawlessly and that overall you are happy with your purchase.

Regards, Quiet1

PS I added a dab of white to the front sight and it does help my old eyes aquire it a bit better.  :)  I am waiting for Crimison Trace to bring out a laser for it but I'm afraid that that will not happen.  They probably figure it's too small a customer base.   :(
Illegitimus Non Carborundum

Offline yankee2500

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2009, 10:00:55 PM »
R9newbie ,welcome to the group, good report thanks for sharing.
John
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Offline r9newbie

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2009, 10:50:16 PM »
Earlier I mentioned I couldn't use the R9s as a primary carry piece, but that it would make a great (though a bit heavy) backup.

With the sale of my primary and backup daily carry pieces (a S&W M&P340 5-shot revolver and a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 respectively) due to need to raise cash for other purchases, I'm now considering using the R9s for primary carry at least part-time.

My main daily carry piece is now the Sig .P239 in .40 but it's really too big to hang on the belt while at work, at least in light clothing season.

So I'm considering the R9s.

My main argument against the R9s for primary carry is the European style mag release, because reloads are time-consuming and fiddly (try that under pressure).  However, I've been carrying a 5-shot snub that must be at least as fiddly to reload, if not more (unless you're Jerry Miculek). Plus, the R9s has an additional round.

There goes my main argument.

Sights are only slightly worse than the snub's sights. I'll apply a contrasty dot of paint to make acquisition a little easier.

It's picky about ammo.. so I'll just stock up on the good stuff when I find it.

The "carry lots, shoot little" nature of the R9s also works against it for primary carry because I believe strongly in practicing regularly.  Sig, no problem here, but R9s will need guide rod spring changes and seems to have been designed (in Rohrbaugh's words) to shoot little.

My ideal carry is a subcomact SIG (it's just what I'm used to, like some are used to the 1911 and don't want a different platform) with SA/DA, decocking lever, basically a P239 but smaller and lighter, in 9mm (or greater).

But since they don't have that yet... I find myself likely to carry the R9s as primary carry on occasion.

So...

What do you recommend to make the R9s a better primary carry piece?

Offline Reinz

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 04:06:37 AM »
R9newbie, welcome to the forum and thanks for such a detailed range report.

Your accuracy test seems to follow what most right handers go through and have to work out;  i.e. shooting low left, very common.  Thus, I assume you shoot right handed?

As far as the R9 being too heavy, I am totally confused on that note.  You have the smallest, lightest 9mm on the planet.
What more can you ask for?

I live in East Texas, a very Hot, Humid Climate most of the year.  I wear shorts, slack style with belt or cargo shorts.
I carry a 1911 officers model on my hip and an R9 in my front pocket, two R9 mags in a double mag pouch holder in my back pocket and an 1911 mag on my left hip, not to mention wallet, keys, knife.

And you are telling me one R9 is too heavy?   What are you wearing, Gym shorts?   I just don't understand, help me out here.


I agreee with your assment on Euro mag releases, they suck!
But I believe the designers were looking hard at releiability  here.   Small gun, maybe big hands, moderately harsh recoil, maybe a thumb release would ge bumped too often, at the worst, wrong time and then --- oh sh#t.

Anyways, you are going to be doing a mag change from cover hopefully if available.

Also, I look at spare mags not so much as spare ammo, but primarily as a backup to a failure first, and spare ammo second.

Sorry for the long reply, but just wanted to address all your points with my opinion-- and you know what they say about opinions, however I have been carrying for well over 20 years  and I am a little defensive about the R9 because it is such a Godsend compared to what we had in the past.

Good Luck

Reinz
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 04:08:56 AM by Reinz »
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Offline r9newbie

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 08:43:07 AM »
Reinz writes

> Thus, I assume you shoot right handed?

Correct.
 
> As far as the R9 being too heavy, I am totally confused on that note.  You have the smallest, lightest 9mm on the planet. What more can you ask for?

I'm used to pocket-carrying the Kel-Tec P3AT .380 -- while it's no Rohrbaugh, it's just what I'm used to for weight.  The weight of the R9s just drags down my pocket too much.  It makes me walk different, like I'm carrying a gun in my pocket ;)

> And you are telling me one R9 is too heavy?   What are you wearing, Gym shorts?   I just don't understand, help me out here.

Right -- too heavy.  Don't get my wrong; sure it's small and light.  I wear what I guess you'd call khakis at work, carrying in left front pocket in an Uncle Mike's holster.  Maybe the pocket is too deep, not carrying it high enough, or maybe I'm just used to that lighter P3AT (every ounce makes a difference).  All I know is when I'm carrying the R9s in the pocket, the weight is really noticeable.

It's likely the design of the pocket.  Just like having a good sturdy gun belt for a hip holster will make the difference between good vs. sloppy carry in that configuration, I suspect a pocket needs to be selected well for effective, comfortable pocket carry.  A person's size/build must have an effect too.
 
I live in East Texas, a very Hot, Humid Climate most of the year.  I wear shorts, slack style with belt or cargo shorts.
 
> But I believe the designers were looking hard at releiability  here.   Small gun, maybe big hands, moderately harsh recoil, maybe a thumb release would ge bumped too often, at the worst, wrong time and then --- oh sh#t.

Right on.  Especially for pocket carry, which is probably how most people will carry this one, and probably what Rohrbaugh had in mind when designing it.

> Anyways, you are going to be doing a mag change from cover hopefully if available.

Hope so.
 
Also, I look at spare mags not so much as spare ammo, but primarily as a backup to a failure first, and spare ammo second.
 
> Sorry for the long reply, but just wanted to address all your points with my opinion-- and you know what they say about opinions, however I have been carrying for well over 20 years  and I am a little defensive about the R9 because it is such a Godsend compared to what we had in the past.

It sure is, don't get me wrong.  I love this thing.  No disrespect intended to this FINE piece -- I'm just expressing what I've found as I figure out its role for me.  I've shot only 14 rounds through it (my range closed until the end of the month), and whenever I pick it up and load & rack it, I'm reminded of what a beautiful piece it is.  I knew when I bought it that finding its role in my arsenal would take some time, as I got to know the gun, and I enjoy that process.

I think I'll be all set when I find two things for it:

1) right-side OWB holster - for when it's primary

2)  left-side, cross-draw IWB holster - for  when it's backup

Thanks for your comments.

Offline sdlsaginaw

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2009, 01:14:44 PM »
The weight difference bothered me a bit when I switched from the KT.  I don't notice it anymore.

Offline Reinz

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2009, 04:03:15 PM »
R9newbie -  thanks for your replies.

Please do not give up on pocket carry.

I went from a Kel Tec 3AT to a R9 myself.  In fact, when I travel I leave the R9 at home and bring the KT.  Just in case of theft.  R9's are too hard to come by.

I think you just need to find a better holster for pocket carry.

For Kakhis with big pockets you need a holster with "wings".

I have a Graham/Palehorse that I like and I also use a Meco holster that works well also.   If you look at some of the older posts, you will see some other makers that make good quality holsters as well.  Or better yet, just make a "post'' and our fine members will give you websites and contacts.

Trust me, with the right holster, you will not notice any difference between your R9 and KT  in your pocket, if so, you are "trying too hard" to tell.

To me, it just makes no sense to have pocket rocket on your hip.  If you'te going to put something on your hip, make it count.


Good Luck

Reinz
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 04:05:09 PM by Reinz »
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Offline Richard S

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2009, 06:42:04 PM »
R9newbie:

I don't think I have yet welcomed you to the Forum, so I do so now, with thanks for your good range report.

As one who has carried the R9 in both primary and backup roles for over five years, I predict that this little pocket rocket will grow on you. It is, in my opinion, quite simply the finest pocket pistol yet designed and produced.

Please keep us informed, and the best of luck to you.  
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"

Offline DanR9SF

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2009, 07:19:30 PM »
I know what you mean about the R9 feeling heavy in the pocket.  I went from a P-3AT to a 340PD to the R9, and the R9 is the heaviest of the three.  I don't feel the P-3AT in my pocket.  I feel the bulk of the 340PD but I don't feel the weight.

I feel the weight of the R9.  It feels like a weight at the bottom of my pocket.  It swings a bit for and aft as I walk.  The whole pocket moves.  I carry it in a Mitch Rosen Pocket Softie, same as the other two guns.  It's not the holster or the pants - it's the heavier R9.

Occasionally I'll carry the P-3AT instead of the R9 and it's really nice to have what feels like nothing in my pocket.  That Kel-Tec is really a small, light gun.  

The 340PD is also light but it's not small.  It fits in my pocket but just barely.  I like it - it's a revolver and when I pull the trigger it goes boom.

But the R9 is a 9mm and that's what does it for me.  I carry the R9 in my pocket pretty much all the time now... I feel it, but it's a great pocket gun so I deal with it.

Nothing like that P-3AT for a pocket gun that just plain disappears.
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Offline kjtrains

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2009, 09:25:17 PM »
Spent all day in the woods again today, and carried a Ruger .454 Alaskan in my right front pocket, just regular Bermuda shorts.  I was so busy putting up Posted signs I really didn't notice it at all.  It's just what you get used to.

Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline tracker

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Re: 1st shoot: Win 115gr JHP and Fed 135gr low rec
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2009, 09:32:36 PM »
I thought you were going back to N.C. today.