Author Topic: My new R9 test case  (Read 10341 times)

Offline clydeglock

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My new R9 test case
« on: March 28, 2006, 01:25:52 PM »
Well, a $900+ gun is an expense toy to make into a project, but that is what I intend to do, at least with my 1st R9s.

I had Birdsong's Black T gun finish applied to my Glock 27 over 4 years ago, and intend to have it applied to my new R9s as soon as I receive it, before it is fired.  

Black T can be read about here: http://www.snipercentral.com/birdsong.htm

It is hard to find a lot about it, as the company doesn't advertise.  I do know that it is in heavy use by the FBI, including its hostage rescue teams, and is used to coat certain critical internal parts of the Barrett .50 sniper rifles.  My experience with it has been exceptional.  My glock 27 shows no signs of wear, and I have lost count of how many rounds I've fired through it since coating it.  All metal surfaces of the gun are coated in the process, save the inside of the barrel.  I had the coating applied immediately after installing a 3.5 pound trigger to my glock, and my armor measured a slight decrease in bench tested trigger pull after application of Black T.

Black T has a friction coefficient of .08, so no gun oil needs to be applied to any parts of the gun.  It is highly non-corrosive, and has been tested at over 7,000 hours in salt water with no corrosion.  I didn't believe any of this, as I am sure many of you are saying, "sure, pal" right now.  After four years of shooting my glock, never using oil, and even field cleaning it after heavy use by removing the slide and running water through it under a faucet (this was suggested to me by Mr. Birdsong), and then refiring it flawlessly, I am a believer now.  I wouldn't own a semi-auto not coated in Black-T.

I called Maria at Rohrbaugh and was told that applying the coating would void my warranty, but that is a chance I will simply have to take.  This approach by the company puzzles me a bit, as the coating has a film thickness between .0002" - .0003" thick, less than the factory coatings they have used on the R9 already.  I can't imagine that there is a handgun made today that has such tight tolerances that a coating that thin would adversely affect the operation of the gun.

This could either be the magic pill this gun has needed, or an expensive blunder on my part.  I won't be disgruntled if it doesn't work as I expect, but I will be surprised if it doesn't.  Either way, I absolutely love the design and platform of the R9's, and will end up a happy owner either way.  From my reading on these forums, it looks as though correct selection of ammo eliminates nearly 100% of "operator errors" leading to FTF, etc., which make up most of the problems anyway.  I am merely looking for a superior solution to gun care and maintenance if it is available and proves reliable, and I know that Black T will enhance the corrosion resistance of the R9.  Don't misread me, I own several revolvers that require meticulous cleaning and oiling; if my solution fails to work as I expect I will revert back to the recommended cleaning and care.  Right now, I am willing to be the guinea pig.  

I plan to run at night carrying the R9, as well as use it for CC in certain situations where I don't carry my Glock.

Offline theirishguard

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2006, 02:10:59 PM »
clydeglock, I thank you for being a guinea pig. But wonder, if it is necessary. ???
On the other hand its your money spend it as you will.
Tom
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Offline R9SCarry

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2006, 02:27:31 PM »
Quite some project Clyde! :o  :)

I will be following this with some interest!
Chris - R9S
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Offline clydeglock

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2006, 04:02:49 PM »
Tom,

I enjoyed talking to you the other day when I was trying to find an R9.  Ended up buying from a forumite here who was selling his 2nd Rohrbaugh, an R9s.

Anyway, here's why I think it necessary, at least to try from my perspective to reduce the maintenance and long-term upkeep.  I have a need for a small CC piece that is the same size (roughly) as my Kel-tec P32 with a higher caliber and potentially better reliability, and superior craftmanship.  I need a gun that is small enough for me to carry in my hand (in some type of wallet sized holster) while I run outside at night 3-4 times per week for an hour or more at a time.  The Kel-tec has been good for this, but I have always said I'd jump at the chance to get a similar sized 9mm or larger caliber gun.  The gun may get sweat on it every time I run with it.  It also could get some condensation on it when I wear it in my Smartcarry holster during the summer months.  

Sure, I don't mind cleaning the gun more often to accomodate my lifestyle uses of it, but if I can find a no-nonsense way to eliminate much of the cleaning and oiling, knowing my gun is protected even while condensation may be accumulating on it for hours at a time, I will take that option.  The Black T coating has given me all that in the past, and I don't see any reason why it won't improve the R9 for my purposes.  If it doesn't, that's okay, too.  I'll still be very satisfied, and am willing to sacrifice some convenience for the larger caliber in a small package.

By the way, what are most of you guys using, the Speer gold dot, or the Silvertips?

Offline harrydog

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2006, 04:27:10 PM »
I'd be mildly surprised if it makes any difference, but you never know.
I had one of the Springfield Professionals with Black-T. It's very good - probably the best of that type of finish. Very good rust protection. I does show holster wear though. It has good lubricity, but I personally wouldn't eliminate cleaning and lubing the gun.
Please post some pictures when you get it done.
The most popular ammo, by a wide margin,  seems to be the Gold Dots. That's what I was using. since I've been having FTF problems, Karl Rohrbaugh suggested that I try the Silvertips. He feels they're better suited to the R9 than the Gold Dots are. If they work for you, I'd use Gold Dots. I think they're a better self defense round.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2006, 04:31:14 PM by harrydog »

Offline Richard S

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2006, 07:10:23 PM »
Quote

This could either be the magic pill this gun has needed, or an expensive blunder on my part.  I won't be disgruntled if it doesn't work as I expect, but I will be surprised if it doesn't.  Either way, I absolutely love the design and platform of the R9's, and will end up a happy owner either way.  

Clyde:

I plead guilty to the charge of trying to customize, in one way or another, every gun that I own.  (You should see what I've done with my "Government-issue" 1911.)  So far, my attempts to customize my R9 have been limited to seeking a pair of sterling-silver grips for it.  I admit, however, that the thought of having a bright hard-chrome finish applied to it has occurred to me on occasion -- breach of warranty of not.  (Some of my old Army and Agency buddies refer to that as "Bling Bling," but I can't help it.  And I do still have some "black" guns, in the unlikely event that I ever need one again.  8)  )  

Keep us informed.
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"

Offline Brenden

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2006, 07:39:50 PM »
clydeglock,

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the pup..

I have also thought about doing a black finish on one of mine but can't bring myself to do it.. :o

I have seen a couple of Seecamp LWS .32s done in black (do not know what make of finish) and they look nice.. ;D

I would think that the finish will not "hurt" the ability of the gun to function..Except for the note of not needing any oil.

I look forward to hearing more about your experiment!! :)

Good luck and welcome again,

Brenden
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GOA
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Offline sslater

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2006, 11:56:54 PM »
clydeglock,
I'd like to welcome you to the forum, too.  
Thought I had copied some of that thread on aftermarket coatings, but I guess I didn't save it after all.  
My R9S has 500 rounds thru it and shows the typical wear thru the anodized finish on the frame near the assembly pin.   That wear seems to have stabilized after about 250 rounds. Externally the rest of the gun looks like brand new, but when it does get to looking shoddy, I'm planning to send the pup to Robar for their NP3 finish.
So I'm really interested in how you make out with the Black T finish.  I've heard good things about it.

Re: ammo - I've had good success with the Speer GDHP rounds, but my particular gun does not seem to like the shorter rounds like Hornady TAP.  The GDHPs in various weights are very consistent in length at 1.119".  The Hornady TAP rounds ran about 1.05" and gave me trouble feeding.
The other day, a member posted a picture of four Winchester JHP rounds and a Blazer JHP round.
Win Ranger 147 gr  SXT        1.118"  
Win Silvertip 115 gr.             1.088"
Win White Box 115 JHP gr.     1.090"
Win White Box 147 JHP gr.     1.085"
Blazer 115 JHP                     1.124"

Steve

Offline ken

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2006, 03:29:50 AM »

Offline harrydog

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2006, 08:09:54 AM »
Quote
The GDHPs in various weights are very consistent in length at 1.119".  
Win Ranger 147 gr  SXT        1.118"  
Win Silvertip 115 gr.             1.088"
Win White Box 115 JHP gr.     1.090"
Win White Box 147 JHP gr.     1.085"
Blazer 115 JHP                     1.124"

Steve
 
That's interesting. Are you sure the GDHPs are 1.119"?   Karl told me they weren't ideal for the R9 because they were on the short side, and he recommended Silvertips for that reason.

Offline Fud

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2006, 08:18:05 AM »
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Karl Rohrbaugh suggested that I try the Silvertips. He feels they're better suited to the R9 than the Gold Dots are.
I never saw standard pressure silvertips around here -- only the +P ones. Is there a place that sells them online?

Offline sslater

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2006, 10:23:28 AM »
harrydog,
I measured about a dozen GDHP rounds of each weight from several boxes bought at different times (and different batch numbers).
When I first got my R9S, I measured some GDHPs at 1.120".  Used the same digital caliper for all measurements.
BTW:  Even though some FMJ or "ball" rounds measure longer than JHP's, the magazine's presentation of the round to the feed ramp makes the JHP feed the same as that FMJ.

Steve    

Offline clydeglock

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2006, 07:39:16 PM »
I spoke with Walter Birdsong today about finishing the R9s I should be receiving this Friday with Black T coating.  He wants to give it a look over thoroughly first, but said that contrary to my Glock 27, which needs no gun oil (Walter himself has one of the first 10 serial numbered Glock 17's), he will probably recommend for the R9s that I use FP-10 to clean it, leaving a clean coat of FP-10 on it to further lubricate it.  (Incidentally, he said the tennifer finish was already 99% non-corrosive already, but 100% with Black T.  The big gain on the glock has been in lubricity with Black T.)  He wants to consider the overall schematics of the R9, and treat it first, but based on its given stainless steel and aluminum construction, that is where he is leaning.  I haven't even begun my project really, and here I already stand corrected!  He did say FP-10 would be much easier to use and would be needed far less frequently than normal gun oil or even Superlube, only needing to be reapplied when cleaning the gun after use, unless it accumulates significant amounts of dust or debris between uses.  He really likes FP-10 because it contains no solids (sorry, not a chemist here).  He educated me to some degree on the fine pores of all guns, and somehow the tennifer finish of a Glock that has been covered in Black T never needs gun oil, while some stainless guns like the R9 may need a little help from FP-10 even after coating with Black T.

He also gave me some insight into a new government contract bid that is out for a new SOCOM issued gun that specifically required that the gun must be designed (and finished) to operate flawlessly, and be carried DRY.  He had some more to say about it, but I've said about all I should say on a message board on the matter.

He also brought me up to speed on a military use of his Black T in marine engine thrusters on robotic mine retreiving subs.  In that application the finish is going strong with over 50,000 hours in salt water without any salt water corrosion.  He has witnessed in person certain naval vessel deck guns that are coated with Black T being rinsed with a blast of sea water to clean them off.  Serious stuff.

Offline Richard S

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2006, 08:17:59 PM »
Quote
I He has witnessed in person certain naval vessel deck guns that are coated with Black T being rinsed with a blast of sea water to clean them off.  Serious stuff.

Now that is truly "serious stuff"!  It brings an entirely new aspect to carrying firearms in a salt-water environment.
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"

Offline harrydog

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Re: My new R9 test case
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2006, 10:56:43 PM »
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I never saw standard pressure silvertips around here -- only the +P ones. Is there a place that sells them online?
I got some here  http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=449826