The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: rtw on July 27, 2004, 09:08:37 PM
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I am new here, but not new to a pocket-carry viewpoint. That's why-some years ago-before Kel-Tec .32's- I acquired a Seecamp .32, which as I mentioned in another thread, that I have never carried nor shot because of real questions concerning the .32 caliber. At the time, Seecamp was high on people's list for pocket guns.
It appears from reading the various threads here that Seecamp has been eclipsed. I don't even know if their .380 made it into production. Has the world passed them by? Are they still in business?
Not long ago, my local gunshop advised against kel-Tec's, which they sold, in favor of the Guardian-speaking of 380's. It was a matter of quality/reliability. At the time, I remember thinking that the Seecamp had to run circles around the Guardian in quality, much less the cheap-looking Kel-Tec.
The world sure seems to have changed since just a couple of years ago. Isn't it wonderful to have such innovation and advancement during this age of anti-gun sentiment?
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Seecamp is still in business. The .32 has fallen LOW in price to what it was. The .380 is reportedly being produced in very low quantities, with a long waiting period.
I have shot the Seecamp; my shooting budy has one and has a .380 on order. The Keltec .380 is a FINE firearm in my opinion, although I did send one of the five my son and I bought back for fixin'. I also love my Keltec 9mm, .40 and .357 Sig. In fact I find them quite fine pistols, suitably accurate and in all ways a more than fair value.
I LOVE my Rohrbaugh. It is smaller and sometimes more accurate for me than my Keltec 9mms, althought it holds far less ammo.
I really like a fine Chronograph watch; I wear a $20 Timex, which is a fabulous value, accurate, and has the features I LOVE. The Rohrbaugh, like a fine Chronograph, is a masterful piece of machinery and a tribute to the finest of what can be made at this point - and it works well at what it does!!!!!!!! ;D And, I will keep ALL of my Keltecs too.
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Thanks for the reply. What kind of reviews has the Seecamp .380 received? I gather that it doesn't meet with this groups approval? Does the Kel-Tec .380 run circles around it and the Guardian?
How does this group feel about the .380 caliber vs 9mm?
It seems that this group (at least for this forum) is first and foremost focused on real "pocket" pistols. Pocketability has come first, caliber second?
So, does having this Rohrbaugh in 9mm (presuming that the 9mm is superior-I'm not up to date) mean that the .380's will all be retired?
Thanks for the info. I am trying to get up to speed with current thinking.
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rWt:
Welcome to the Forum.
I recently gave my Seecamp .32 to my wife, who finally agreed to carry something larger than her NAA MiniMag. Meanwhile, I have been on the waiting list for a Seecamp .380 for at least two years. I also have two NAA Guardians, .32 and .380, the latter being the one I have carried the most for the past few years. About two months ago, I acquired my R9s. You see, I am an unapologetic member of what has been described elsewhere on the Forum as the "Cult of Pocket Carry."
While some of the hotter .32 rounds post numbers almost as good as those of standard .380 rounds, there is a significant difference between the numbers of those two calibers and the numbers of the 9mm. When I first read about the Rohrbaugh 9mm, my instinct told me that it was going to be one of the finest pocket pistols ever made. I immediately ordered one, and now after a couple of months of owning, shooting, and carrying the R9s, I am here to report that my instinct was absolutely correct in this case. The Rohrbaugh is absolutely the finest pocket pistol I have ever owned or ever expect to own.
Don't get me wrong. I intend to keep my other "pocket rockets," especially my treasured G-380, and I intend to shell out the going price for the Seecamp .380 when the factory finally gets to my number in line. It's just that the others will be spending most of their time in my gun safe, while the R9s will be riding along in my pocket.
RS
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Thank you Richard_S.
Hopefully I will be able to see an Rohrbaugh in the flesh soon.
Out of curiosity, is the R(S your primary carry gun? If not, what do you prefer in that role?
Thanks again.
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rWt:
When possible, I carry my customized Colt 1911-type .45 in an IWB holster. However, my lifestyle usually prevents that type of carry, so I must rely on a pocket gun. Enter the Rohrbaugh R9s 9mm . . . .
RS
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I have a customized .45 as well. I haven't found an IWB I like yet. Can you recommend one?
Have you shot a Para Ord LDA model? I am curious to know what that trigger is like.
Thanks
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rWt:
For excellent IWB holsters, check out the web sites for Ron Graham, Mitch Rosen, and Law Concealment Systems. (R. J. Hedley makes only pocket holsters.)
I have not shot any of the Para LDAs, but I hear good things about them. As I recall, R. J. has experience with the LDA design.
RS
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Thank you!!
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rwt,
I have used Blade-Tech IWB holsters and am very happy with them.
I find that reinforced leather is too thick, but the rigidity is necessary for a good combination of speed and retention.
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I own 3 Seecamp pistols: 1 25 ACP, and 2 32ACP. I have also seen the Seecamp 380. The one I saw is owned and carried by Mickey Yurco, a full time Ohio police officer and custom knife maker (I own 9 of his knives). (I adore his push dagger--actually a push knife--which I think is the finest knife of its kind ever produced.) (I carry a Yurco knife daily.)
Seecamp currently makes only 12 380's a week. Mickey was on the list for 3 years before he got his, and he owns 5 Seecamps, I think. He is a true blue Seecamp fan.
I intend to buy a Seecamp 380.
I carry a NAA Guardian 380.
I also carry a NAA Guardian 32.
You can never go wrong with a firearm made by NAA, Seecamp, or Rohrbaugh.
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...and I agree !
Mark that down, GeorgeH
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It's a miracle....
And who says there can't be peace in the Middle East...
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My problem with the Seecamp was the reciil spring. It soon became battered and I was unable to get a replacement .
The gun was heavily endorsed by the likes of Mickey Fowler, Mas Ayoob, and others. Some of the more prolific gun writers even were able to get custon serial numbers on their guns.
My experience with the Seecamp family wasn't nearly as positive. They wouldn't answer their phone with anything other than a recording. They would not answer their mail even when provided with a stamped return envelope. Bear in mind this was in the pre-internet days when they could sell 100% of their production and there was no competition from folks like Sandy @naa.
Extra mags were damned difficult to find.
I still feel guilty for trading off my Seecamp 32. Not because I liked it, but because the guy I traded it to was really a fairly nice person and I didn't want him to be saddled with a personal protedtion pistol that was considerably less than reliable.
Maybe Seecamp has responded to increased competition now and their approach to customer relations has changed. I hope so.
saltydog452
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I have had nothing but praise for my LWS .32
Having carried it now for a number of years without a problem..
I would have preferred a larger caliber,but it is a GREAT bug..
When I receive my R9s,I hope to have a little more "bang" in my bug.. ;)
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Larry Seecamp will respond to a fax. I should look in the Seecamp manual, it should tell a person how to comunicate.. But I agree, with you , he is hard to reach, through normal means.
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RJ,
That was several years ago. I can't really blame the Seacamp family too much for ignoring the calls or the letter. (Did I mention that I enclosed a stamped, self-addressed letter for return correspondence?).
Their plant was running ay max capacity and had practially a guaranteed sale of everything they could ship.
I guess a situtation like that could make any manufacturer just a little non-responsive to customer service.
I'm glad that same attitude isn't shared by Sandy and the folks at naa.
I appreciated your reply.
Thanx,
salty.
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The Seecamp company is still in business.
I feel they are still of high quality, and performance.
I have several LWS-32s, and a LWS-380.
I carry one with me everywhere, and every day. I have qualified with them whenever I needed to, and they have never let me down.
Here is a picture of my LWS-380. For you guys that ordered one, you will be happy when you recieve it.
(http://www.fototime.com/7B2503B5DF5F161/standard.jpg)
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I have sold and carried Seecamps for as long as Larry has been making them. At first extra mags were next to impossible to get because when they had a mag ready they had a gun to ship. .32acp mags are easy to get now. LARRY HAS ALWAYS HAD PROBLEMS KEEPING EMPLOYEES since they get bored and can make as much money on welfare as they can working. The .32acp is a great little pistol and can be shipped fairly soon at a good price, about $450 MSRP. The .380acp is also nice and is the same size only thicker. The .380 is very low production because Larry is the only person in the shop at this time. He is also going to move to a larger location. The .380 sells for MSRP of $850. I think he dropped the ball with the .380 in taking so long to get them ready and ship. They don't answer the phone because it takes them away from making guns and getting them shipped. I can always get a hold of them by phone any time. If any of you need to get them by phone let me know as I will be happy to help. The R9S is easier to hold and shoot and is 9mm! Tom
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I curently own a .32 LWS, fine gun, but the Rohrbaug is my new choice. Recently heard new style Silvertips are causing jams in the 32 seecamps, any suggestions on proper ammo for my Seecamp???
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Hello y'all, I have sold and shot Seecamps since Larry first started making guns. The .32 is a good little pocket pistol, it always works. Of all the 100's of .32 I have sold only 2 were sent back to get running. Both guns were sent back without mags and Larry worked on them and shipped them back in good shape quickly with mags! Being a very small shop, they could not answer the phone all day and get anything done. I have been able to talk with them anytime I want. I've gotten in 2 in .380 and sold them right away. I'm currently waiting for another order. The .380 is the same size as the .32 only thicker. The .32 is about $450 and the .380 is about $800 to $850. I still feel the 9mm is a better way to go-enter the R9S. Tom
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Larry Seecamp is a valued friend of mine, he is a small manufactor with a world wide reputation. I don't blame he for being hard to reach by phone, believe me, that is a pain in the you know where !
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I have never spoken to Larry Seecamp. Years ago, I spoke to his father because of a DA conversion unit that he designed for the 1911.
I own 3 Seecamps. I have had nothing but good luck with them. The only problem that I have ever heard about (more than once) was that the 32's firing pin would break on some people.
Teddy Jacobson, a Texas gunsmith, who I respect, claims that the internal workings of the gun are machined not nearly as fine as the external finish would suggest.
I intend to buy a Seecamp 380 one day. Last I heard is that they are being produced at a rate of 12 a week. I have only seen one Seecamp 380. And that is the gun carried by Mickey Yurco, a custom knifemaker who has gotten me hooked on small custom blades.
To my eye, the 380 looks identical to the LWS 32, except for the barrel that has a "larger hole."
I carried Seecamps for years. Now I carry NAA Guardians. (And the Rohrbaugh of course.)
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Chameleon, THAT IS THE BIGGEST SEECAMP THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN!! ;D
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GeorgeH, I have some Seecamp .380s on order. The size is the same as the .32acp only thicker because of the size of the round. It will most likely take about 3-4 months before I get them. Tom
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What would you think of a Seecamp chambered in .32 NAA ?[Cor-Bon =1200 fps]
I am trying to get Larry Seecamp to *think* about it...
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RJ, I'd think long and hard about that combo.
The one that I had in an NA was a fierce handfull. I regularly practice with a P3AT, a PM40 and of course my R9s. The recoil of each is quite different, but the 32 NA was very sharp and quite fast.
Hard to state, not being a wordsmith, but quite different. With the light weight of the Seecamp, ouch!
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What would you think of a Seecamp chambered in .32 NAA ?
Maybe this belongs in it's own topic but I never understood the value of necked down rounds. Is a .32 necked down to a .25 (the .25NAA) really better than the .32ACP? Or is a .380 necked down to a .32 (the .32NAA) better than a .380ACP? Or is a .40 necked down to a 9mm (the .357SIG) better that a .40S&W? Etc.?
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There hasn't been a post on this thread for awhile. One of the major complaints is how hard it is to talk to someone at Seecamp. Years ago I would have agreed - I remember writing and not getting a reply.
Last two work days ago I sent an email through their new website, www.seecamp.com. The owner of three Seecamps I was looking to get one engraved and was wondering if someone at Seecamp could give me a recommedation.
The next day Larry Seecamp himself emailed me - and has done so three more times in two days. He tracked down an engraver he recommended and sent me the information. He also answered my questions on ammunition since the new Silvertips are having problems.
In addition Larry Seecamp told me how highly he thinks of our forum holster maker RJ.
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Dave,
Before ordering my R9S last month, I also emailed Seecamp and got a prompt email with an order form, including an estimate of delivery time.
I had also heard stories that they were difficult to contact.
Bill
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Bill,
As some have suggested competition has caused a new Seecamp to be born. The new website has helped also. People complain about the R9 wait - I waited two years for my Seecamp when they were the only game in town. If you could find them for sell they were marked up sometimes to 200% over retail years ago. They are still much higher quality than the others in the same calibers .32 and .380.
Dave
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Dave,
I was seriously thinking about buying the .380 Seecamp. I'm sure it is of the very highest quality.
Meanwhile, how can one resist the R9S? 9mm seems much better to me!
It just sounds like an all-around humdinger.
Besides, my belt is getting too tight to carry the Glock 36, or Sig P239, both using VM-2 holsters.
That left no choice.
Bill
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Bill, My thoughs are the same. The 9mm is the way to go. Tom
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Hi Tom,
I was trying to visit your web site, but the URL in your profile did not work.
Bill
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Bill, It is still under construction. Working on the graphics. Thanks for looking and asking. Regards, Tom
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I'm expecting my R9s in a couple of weeks but I'll probably be carrying my Seecamp .380 for a good while. It fits in my backpocket holster fine but unless I'm mistaken, the R9s' slightly larger size will make it "uncomfortable" in the same place. And, yes, the Seecamps are jewels of the craft!!
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I once owned a Seecamp and it was not very accurate. Resonable groups at even 10 ft were hard to come by. I then read somewhere that you could drop a 32 bullet right down the chamber. I tried this and sure enough the 32 fell right down the barrel with no trouble.
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".....sure enough the 32 fell right down the barrel with no trouble." searcher
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Are you saying, you dropped a complete .32 Cartridge down the barrel of a 32 Seecamp ??
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No, not the whole cartridge. Just the bullet itself.
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OK, That startled me.... :D
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As I have said I own three Seecamps and I can hit soda cans at 20 feet four times out of five so I would say it isn't bad. It was never meant for target shooting. It is meant for that 12ft range. Larry Seacamp emailed me today - his fifth email in a week inviting me for a factory tour. He answered all of my questions so I would say Seecamp is very responsive now days.
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I do the 7 yd. thing with my .32 all the time..Pie plate is what I want-Pie plate is what I get.. ;)
Plenty good for a No-sight - point at bad guy- pistola.. 8)
As I have said I own three Seecamps and I can hit soda cans at 20 feet four times out of five so I would say it isn't bad. It was never meant for target shooting. It is meant for that 12ft range. Larry Seacamp emailed me today - his fifth email in a week inviting me for a factory tour. He answered all of my questions so I would say Seecamp is very responsive now days.
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Ubik380, it really is a beautiful pistol.
It was a hard choice for me, but the higher power won out.
Someday maybe I'll try my P3AT in back pocket carry.
Bill
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For those with 32 Seecamps go to the Seecamp website at www.seecamp.com on new ammo recommendations since there is a problem with the new winchester silvertips. Below is a email I received from Larry Seecamp last week on ammo.
Hi,
Early Hydra Shoks were too long to fit in our magazines without binding. I've noticed the earlier Hydra Shok ammo boxes have thin lines running along the shorter axis of the box, whereas the newer Hydra Shoks have thin lines running along the longer axis. The difference in the round length is about .015, as I recall. I'll put more up on the website in the next few days.
I'd hang on to the old Silvertips. I know I'm saving the few boxes I have left. It'd still be my carry choice.
The older serial number gun should handle all the ammo in the revised recommendation.
What irks me is that I have the personal experience of shooting well over a half million rounds of the old Silvertips in some 40,000 plus guns and Winchester suddenly changes the design on me ~ essentially leaving me to start all over again with a redesigned bullet that showed problems from the get-go. I'm sure they'll fix the problem, but I can't say the new ammo is an improvement except for the cosmetics once they do get the act together.
Regards,
Larry
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Ron Graham just created a Seecamp message board on his board. The link is: http://p081.ezboard.com/fgrahamholsterforumfrm35
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Just love those damn Pop- ups from that link ...
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I agree with RJ - too many pop ups and adds on the link - Larry Seecamp has thought about some kind of forum dedicated to Seecamp
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I missed all that garbage by using Firefox, rather than Internet Explorer.
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The pop-ups are gone.