The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: compman on May 27, 2004, 08:16:47 PM
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O.k.,
Lets hear it! I am sure this is a big issue with many Kahr owners. Besides size, are there any other selling points for buying a Rohrbaugh if you already own a Kahr PM9?
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Compman .. welcome! :)
You should get quite a few answers .. some points are or have been made in some other threads too.
Short answer .... sheer precision .. all metal, high tolerance .. fit and finish superb. Once you look close at R9 I reckon there is no comparison .. other than cal!
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i posted this question as well. seems that the rohrbaugh is the middle ground (size wise) between the P3AT and the PM9. I have both and am hard pressed to spend the money on the rohrnaugh since i don't really carry the PM9 much anymore. I do however, carry the P3AT daily. Also, anyone that has one and has shot it, I am curious, will you get the "walther bite" in the web of your hand becasue this pistol is soo small? I have large meat hooks and i usually get a bleeder after a range session with my PPK/S.
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Kahrs are fine pistols.
The Rohrbaugh is a true pocket pistol. The PM 9 isn't. But it is close. As to the Kel Tec 380, I too own one. And the felt recoil is about the same.
The Rohrbaugh isn't cheap, but isn't your life worth the investment?
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I have been an admirer of the Walthers, especially the PPKs, since coming to know them back in Germany in the early 1960s. I am familiar with the "Walther Bite." After testing my new R9s, I would not expect the "Bite" to be a problem with the Rohrbaughs.
As for the reason I bought the R9s when I already owned several other pocket guns -- (1) the Rohrbaugh is the smallest/lightest 9mm yet, as far as I know; (2) it is a functional work of art, and (3) "the Devil made me do it."
RS
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I have three airlight and airweight J-frames, a PM9, a P3AT, and a little derringer. I'll feel left out if I don't get this R9 so I guess I have to place an order.
I just have to start buying pants with more pockets. ::)
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Compman,
With all the pocket pistols you have, worrying about 5 shots (assuming you are the same compman on the S&W forum) is a moot point. IWB the Kahr and a pistol for each pocket! ;D
Now that I went and purchased a J-frame airweight, I am looking hard at the R9s as well instead of the Kahr as I had originally planned. Why have two guns that are borderline pocketable. Just need to wait for the gun fund to fill back up after 3 purchases in five months.
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Roryb,
It is the same compman from the Smith forum. I do have many pocketguns or guns close to that size. I was just kidding about needing more pockets since I only carry 1 gun at a time. Maybe 2, one in the brief case and the other in the pocket or waistband. That is all I can carry comfortably in my attire.
The Kahr holds the most rounds of my carrying choices. I keep six in the flush mag and one in the chamber. I don't trust my Kahr as much as my 340pd and with the 340 you can shoot it straight from the pocket. No room is needed for a slide to move. Which J-Frame did you buy, Rory? I still think you should consider the Kahr. The Kahr is a great gun. Not just a pocketgun, but a gun that is fun to shoot, appropriate for home defense, and concealed carry. Mine has night sights and the black diamond coating that makes for a sweet looking gun. The Rohrbaugh is a straight pocketgun and looks like a great choice if pocket carry is what you like. It's just hard to comprehend that it costs more than a Kimber.
I guess all these little guns have their own place.
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Compman,
I found a LNIB Model 332 (Hammerless Titanium 32 H&R Mag). I was at the shop to purchase a 340 and saw the used 332 and it was nearly half the price (~$375 out the door). This gun maybe had 60-75 round put through it, but you couldn't tell. I was set on the 340, but this was too good of a deal to pass up and might be a better caliber for a gun weighing in at less than 12 oz. Also, I could probably get my wife to try shooting this one. For the drop in caliber you do gain a round (6-shot) with the 332. I have a 3" Model 60 but it was just a little too big/heavy for pocketing and a little thick for summer IWB. Since I bought the 332, I have added Crimson Trace Lasergrips, the slimmer version (LG-205); not as good as absorbing recoil but IMHO significantly smaller having the open back and bottom.
Yes, I am still considering the Kahr for an IWB gun given its slim profile and ability to pocket in some pants. I think we have the same taste as I would also go 'all out' and get the black diamond and night sites. Have you seen any wearing in the black diamond coating? That was my one concern with this option.
The Rohrbaugh really intrigues me and would be an alternate gun to the j-frame, but there are two things holding me back:
1) the initial cost (I have paid this much for guns, just not a new company and model)
2) spare magazines are hard to get given all the ones being produced are going to meet the new gun demand. I would not use a pistol for concealed carry unless I had a speedloader or spare clip for the gun.
Despite this, I can still hear a R9 calling my name. However, my next gun will most likely be the Kahr PM9. After that, I hope the production or the Rohrbaugh is caught up and I can get a R9 with a few spare mags with less of a wait. That is if my affinity for S&W revolvers doesn't persuade me to get another one...say the PF Model 627.
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Rory,
We do have the same taste. My next piece is a 332. I have been reading up on it quite a bit. The .32 H&R mag is a great bullet. Just about the same power as a .38 sp but without the recoil. PLUS, an extra round! That price you bought it at is fantastic. Can I ask where you purchased your Crimson grips from and a price? I need a pair, terribly.
The black diamond coating on my PM9 has absolutely NO WEAR! This is even with a leather holster I am using. The black makes the gun look more like a Glock. I am not a fan of 2 tone guns. IMO, they look like toy guns.
I will wait for the R9, too. I'd like to see a few more batch's come out first. My research also shows a lot of new pocketguns coming out soon. A lot of the big gun manufacturer names are jumping on the bandwagon.
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Compman,
I didn't want to say the that I liked the black diamond because it made the PM9 look like a Glock but that is the reason. Either all stainless or all black in my opinion.
I found the best price on the Crimson Trace grips from a dealer on gunbroker.com. Even with shipping, it was the cheapest I could find. I ended up buying locally for a few dollars more just becuase I get great service and the difference wasn't too big.
LG-305
http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=19014240
LG-205
http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=19045015
The LG-205 does not have a master on/off and that is good and bad. Theoretically, the button could be accidentally pressed while carrying and run the batteries out. However, it is always ready. You don't have to worry about whether or not it is on of off in a pressure situation. I haven't carried it much (had it for less than a week), so I can't report back. I would say that if this is for your 340PD, I would go with the better recoil absorbing LG-305
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Personally I find the Rohrbaugh to be much more accurate than the PM9... my son however shoots the PM9 like a rifle!
I like my Keltec P-11s a LOT...
The Rohrbaugh however is more accurate, far better made than any other gun I've ever seen and the feel of the trigger is a wonder to behold!
The Rohrbaugh is a fraction of the size and weight of the PM9 so for a pocket pistol, it is superb.
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I own one Kel Tec (the 380), and one Kahr (K40 Covert--with black diamond coat), but I have shot many of the Kahr models over the last 6 years or so.
Each is a different pistol. I don't think the PM9 is a pocket gun, as I do the Rohrbaugh and Kel Tec. And between the two, Rohrbaugh is tops.
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I own, and have constantly carried a PM9 since 3/17/03. It is with me 24/7. It has Trijicon tritium night sights, for which I had to send it back to the factory. Before I sent it for the night sights, the PM9 shot right on with the standard factory sights. When I got it back from the factory it shot to the left with the Trijicons and you could see that the rear sight wasn't square in the rear dovetail, so I used a universal sight pusher from Brownells to move the rear sight to the right. It has been fine ever since. The gun has always consistently put all of its rounds into the head of a B27 or TQ19 target at 15 yards. I also sent the PM9 to Teddy Jacobson to do his action job on just after I got it, since when it came out of the box it didn't feed the Corbon 115 gr. +P JHPs that I prefer 100%, but it fed everything else I tried in it. I get a chronagraphed average of 1249 fps from the Corbon 115 gr. JHPs out of the PM9.
When I went to the NRA convention in Pittsburgh I spent about a half an hour talking to Eric Rohrbaugh while I played with one of his R9s guns. I was carrying my Kahr at the time and also had a pleasant conversation at the convention with Justin Moon. After playing with the Rohrbaugh, I couldn't get it out of my mind. It felt so good in my hand and had such a smooth trigger pull, I got hooked. When my friend Ron Graham said how much he liked his it pushed me over the edge. I made my living selling wholesale in the gun business 28 years ago, have been carrying a gun for a living for the past 27 years and have been shooting since I was 5. I was so impressed with the R9s and with Eric, that although $979 is a lot of money to me, two weeks after the convention I got on the waiting list for an R9s with the grey frame and three magazines. I also ordered several of Ron Graham's fancier holster for it to complement a special gun.
To get back to the subject of this thread, the PM9, even with its top of the line performance, for me, is still just a work tool, like a Glock, of which I have five. The Rohrbaugh, on the other hand, is superbly made, semi-custom, built to the highest standards, examining one is believng, and something that even James Bond would love. I had to have one and I am sure that when I take delivery it will be my 24/7 gun. By the way, I have also played the S&W game, have 5 of their revolvers including a titanium Centenial, think that they make the best revolvers in the world, have been to their law enforcement armorers school in Springfield twice, and still think that the Rohrbaugh is better than anything I ever saw in Springfield. The Madi-Gra club in Springfield is something special though and the lobster deal at the Huki-Lau in Chicopee on Thursday nights can't be beat.
Best,
Frank Burke
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Hi Frank, I welcome you to the board.
George J. A. Heitmanis
St Clair Shores, Michigan
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I love the little pm9, if it works for you its a tough call...
The R9 is smaller, and carries better in a pocket if thats important to you.
I found the kahr just a bit large and blocky for all the time pocketcarry,
The R9 is also about 3oz lighter. The R9 fits perfectly in Colt Pony 380 pocket holsters, so size appears the same except the pony has a grip tang that gives it more lenth.
My pony has been at SMA getting custom work since 9/2003 if I can ever get through to Doug I may just tell him to sell it in his shop...
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I bought a PM9 when I ordered my R9. I wanted to have a pocket gun for my relocation to Florida which should happen before the R9 is ready :) I'm only using std pressure rounds in the PM9 so that I can use similar ammo in the R9. After the R9 gets here, I'll compare and contrast the two and either sell the PM9, sell the R9 (I doubt it :) ), or just keep both. This PM9 is proving to be a keeper in terms of reliability, but I have no doubts about the R9, being hand crafted and all.
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DMObrien2001:
You'll certainly see the difference when you have both. I own both but put the PM9 away after I received and tested my R9S. I bought the PM9 for times I wanted the ability to pocket carry a 9mm. Other times I carried my P3-AT (which is also a great pistol). Now with the R9S I have a 9mm with the approximate same dimensions as the P3-AT.
My PM9 needed a trip to Mass. before it was reliable. It often failed to go fully into battery and needed a slight push to do so. I understand that was a pretty common problem. Kahr started using a stronger spring and that seemed to help the problem. The Kahr gunsmiths were great to work with and did some additional reliability work that I hadn't even asked for.
I will keep the Kahr as I may someday use it with a belt scabbard. It was not ideal for pocket carry as you will see when you compare it with the Rohrbaugh.
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;D In a "word", YES. I own both the P9, PM9, and an R9S. For me the PM9 is more "forgiving" for people shooting without "locking" their wrists. The PM9, at least for me, with its sight enables me to hit targets ar longer ranges. Now, the R9S conceals in jeans pockets "much" better. I use mine as a BUG most of the time. Now, we "all" have been lazy at times, just grabbing the smallest and most convienent pistol to make a "quick" 7-11 run to please the SO, with the R9S, I have a 9mm in my pocket. BTW, I've ordered another R9S.
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I thought that it might be relevent to this thread, but my current off duty BUG and primary are the Kahr PM9 and Kahr P40 Covert. When I get my R9S that will take the PM9's place as my 24/7 gun and I will go back to using my Para-Ordnance C6.45.LDA Para-Carry as my primary gun.
Frank
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Hi Frank:
You don't want to use the P40 Covert as a primary--why?
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I don't plan on selling either of my Kahrs or my Colt Pocket 9, but I do forsee a R-9 for me somewhere over the horizon. Ballistically either of my Kahr pistols work just fine thank you with 115 Cor-Bon ammo. Folks, this Cor-Bon stuff is steppin out at 1350 fps. I don't see the R-9 as being capable of that level of performance. In fact, std 9X19 ammo is reaaal close to +P 9X17 which, by the way, works just dandy in my PPK.
As for me, should a situtation arise for serious social intrcourse, I want to have the biggest, baddest deterrent close to hand as possible. Right now, thats a S&W Airweight with Birami grips or a Kahr P-9. The little Guardian in is an off-side hip pocket.
My clothing, body type ( no waist, no butt), and climate dictate the choices that are available.
Now if I can just give up chicken fried steak, mashed pottoes, and drinking gravy through a straw and, somehow, finding my waist again I might be able to go for all season holster carry.
For now though, the little Airweight Bodyguard or the Kahr is as close to ideal as I have been able to find.
We all have limitations imposed upon us by our lifestyle. If I wore a suit coat constantly, I think that I would try to find some type of 88 Belch-fire Loudenbanger Magnum with a 32 round clip to tuck away somewhere under an arm pit.
salty
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... My next piece is a 332. I have been reading up on it quite a bit. The .32 H&R mag is a great bullet. Just about the same power as a .38 sp but without the recoil. PLUS, an extra round!
Nope, that's a myth. I own both a 332 and a 342 and I can tell you that a .38special has much more stopping power. The .32mag approaches the stopping power of a .380acp.
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Yes, it is definitely worth it buying a Rohrbaugh R9 if you have a Kahr PM9 because the R9 conceals much better in a pocket and draws faster from pocket than a PM9.