The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: DDGator on October 09, 2004, 03:29:18 PM
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I started to address this topic in another thread, but figured it deserved its own...
Rohrbaugh will be building an R-380 (although I am not sure if that will be the name). The .380 will be the same size and weight--in fact the only real differences are the magazine, barrel and a few tweaks here and there.
The first question you might ask is -- Why? I had the same question. Now I know.
One reasons is that the .380 will be a natural for export. Many foreign countries do not permit civilians to own guns in "military" calibers like 9mm.
However, the .380 is a very viable gun for the U.S. as well. If you think about it, most .380s are blow-back types rather than locked breech. As a result, the recoil -- even in a larger sized gun like a Bersa Thunder -- is noticeable. The locked breech Rohrbaugh .380 will be much nicer to shoot than other similar sized .380s and far nicer than the R-9.
How much nicer? From personal experience, I can say A LOT. Here is a picture of a prototype Rohrbaugh .380:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/DDGator/Rohrbaugh%20Factory/IMG_1126.jpg)
And here is pic of me shooting it at the factory!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/DDGator/Rohrbaugh%20Factory/IMG_1128.jpg)
This thing has an amazingly light recoil. Anyone who is recoil shy or doesn't think they can master the R-9 needs to try one of these when they become available.
I don't know what the time frame may be -- obviously they are busy right now... ;)
What do you guys think of a .380?
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I've not been particularly impressed with .380s in the past, thinking that good small 9mms made them pretty much obsolete for the American market. I suppose if anyone could change my mind, it would be the Rohrbaughs.
Maybe a .380 would indeed make sense for anyone who is recoil sensitive to a tiny 9mm pistol like the R9s, but a Rohrbaugh .380 would have to have some really serious advantages over the small .380s already on the market, because it would most likely cost more, and I'm not certain what those advantages would be. The main draw for me in the R9s is that it offers a respectable caliber in the tiniest package available.
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Well, the reason I found this forum was that I was searching for a better alternative to my Keltec P3AT. I can shoot it pretty accurately, but it is a handful of kick and its reliability is questionable.
If there were no R9, I'd certainly buy an R380, despite the slight size increase, added weight, and huge price difference. However, since the R9 does exist, unless an R380 were smaller, lighter, and less expensive than the R9, I'd have a hard time justifying it.
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The alternatives are:
1) North American Arms .380 Guardian. Very well made gun, but 50% heavier and straight blowback, so more recoil. Mine has Novak tritium sights, grip stippling, and a Teddy Jacobson trigger job, raising the cost up to about that of a Rohrbaugh.
2) Kel-Tec P3AT. I really like my Kel-Tec P-32, but I have to question the long-term durability of the P3AT.
3) Seecamp. Well-made gun, but you have to wait 2-4 years to get one. If I can wait that long, I didn't need it in the first place.
Most of the other .380's on the market are too large and heavy to qualify as true pocket guns.
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"The alternatives are:" // BillinPittsburg
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A new one, not yet announced.
It will be chambered for the .32NAA* ,
and as a locked breach ;D
Shot Show maybe??
* [.380 cal. necked down to .32cal.]
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I think having them make a .380 version is a great idea. I would like to see it be lighter at least, and possibly slightly smaller in dimensions. Because if its the same size and weight of the 9mm, then the ONLY reason for the .380 is reduced recoil, thats it.
Couldn't they do this by using lighter materials because the gun won't be taking such a beating like the 9mm? I just think that the gun being designed as a true pocket pistol would only be more ideal in the pocket when its lighter.
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Bob, I understand what you are saying, but I bet the .380 Rohrbaughs will be virtually the same size as the R9s. I think this because the changes needed in tooling to make the .380 substantially different could be expensive. Besides, it might require a different holster if it's a different size. I think a really different size would just add another layer of complexity in just about every area for the company.
.380 Mouse (can you tell I'm warming up to the idea?) ;D
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.380mouse is correct. ;D
The .380 and 9mm will be identical in size and weight (or too close to call in the weight department anyway) because the differences are in the barrel, springs and magazine. The slide and frame are identical. This gun is ready to go for all practical purposes -- they just have a lot on their plate right now...
The true appeal of the .380 (over the 9mm version) is just that of reduced recoil -- and better acceptance overseas.
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>>I like the idea of the .380, and when available I hope to pick one up. For one thing...compared to the R9 the .380 should be easier on the gun to shoot...which may mean it will have a longer life...and therefor can be shot on a regular basis if one desires (???). Could be good practice for the R9 (???)
And being more shootable...hopefully more people will be able to shoot the gun well, and may therefore consider it for a primary defensive gun (???) Time will tell (and I'm sure Eric will too - lol). I think the .380 is a natural morph from the R9 and think it will be a popular item...perhaps less of a "niche" gun than the R9 except for the price factor...TW<<
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I was just going through the older posts and saw this. Are they still going to produce the .380?
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Roc' ........ tried to catch Eric but he was out - but Maria tells me that yeah - a .380 is most certainly still on the ''drawing board''. However, as most folks might realize, with all back orders to deal with - it will be some while until that moves forward.
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Right. Thanks for the update.
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How long before we can expect to see one available to the buying public and at what price range do they think it will come in at?
Might get it for the Mrs to replace her NAA Guardian in .32ACP if it has lighter, or the same, recoil.
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Not sure when... I have to believe the the price will be similar to that of an R-9 since it basically the same gun with a different barrel and magazine.
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In my view, .380 caliber is marginal. However, what I really believe is that Rohrbaugh needs to make enough 9MM to cover open orders before worrying about the next caliber.
Right now I am angry at Eric. He has always responded to me in the past but last week he did not advise an answer to my question regarding my R9. I have acknowledged TW's generosity, in this forum, and I have more than enough funds to have gotten one of the 10 R9s that were made available, (in Arkansas) last week, but I trusted Eric for an answer to my question.
Those of you who already have R9s, go ahead and ponder the merits of a .380. Those of us who do not will continue to wonder what the thing looks like & how it feels in our hand.
Is it not reasonable to conclude that an additional caliber is meaningless to those of us who who cannot obtain an R9?
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Of course. There are no plans, to my knowledge, to produce the R-380 in the near future. They wanted to have one at the SHOT show, to have something new to show, but didn't feel they had the time to get it together -- even though it isn't that big a deal since its 90% the same as the R-9...
Please give Eric a chance. I have never known him to do anyone wrong or to dodge phone calls. I think he and Karl have proven themselves enough to get the benefit of the doubt.
PCA -- I know its a difficult wait, and hanging out here probably doesn't make it any better -- but most of us have been though this too. Hang in there.
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Duane,
Thank you for your response but I stand by what I said. Do you realize how tempting it was to call the dealer in Arkansas? But no, I have an inquiry into Eric and he won't fail me, right? Wrong.
I can't even get the long sleeve t-shirt, which was also a part of my inquiry to Eric.
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Can the R9 be adapted to .380 with a barrel, mag & recoil spring/guide rod replacement?
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>>I think I know Eric well enough to say he is one of the most conscientious people I have ever known, so I feel confident in saying he is not purposely avoiding anything or anyone over business.
Fact is I know Eric and Karl have a lot on their plate at the moment - bigger than any business situation so I would strongly encourage everyone to cut them some slack...!!
Quite frankly I think we have all been spoiled by Eric's tendency to respond to everyones beck and call...myself included. Now is not the time to push that envelope...TW<<
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PCA
Maybe you read to much into the non-reply. Eric has a full plate right now, and believe me answering each and every inquiry can become pretty trying.. So, you missed on the Arkansas deal, remember, anticipation is 90%.... ;)
SEE the Smilies :) :)
Edit to change to "PCA" , sorry :)
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>>Pssssssst, RJ... His handle is PCA, not PSA...TW<<
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When you get to be our age, a PSA test is often on the mind!
::)
Dave
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Hi PCA:
I agree with the others--just hang in. I don't communicate with the brothers often. Maybe 3 conversations in 18 months, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.
They moved, bought new equipment, and I assume are hanging on by their fingernails. A little while ago, I suggested that they consider producing a 380 Seecamp clone. Everything can be improved.
To survive, they need to keep those expensive machines operating 24/7. Short term, they will catch up on their orders. But long term they need to keep demand for their prooducts up.
As to the caliber of a 380--Rohrbaugh is a pocketgun manufacturer. So a pocketgun caliber makes sense. I carry a 380 every day. I also carry a Glock 36.
In addition to the R9 and R9s, they can in a short period of time bring to market the 380 and maybe an all steel version of the 9mm.
A little longer, they can improve and build a Seecamp clone.
A little longer even yet, thy may bring to market a 22 training version of the R9 platform.