The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Fud on April 06, 2005, 01:17:30 AM
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When I first purchased my R9S, it was for the intent to be carried when I'm "not carrying" (when I'm in dressed pants with a tucked in shirt and no jacket since it conceals MUCH better than a .38 snubbie). However, since it conceals so well, I often find myself carrying it as a secondary gun to back-up my primary gun (a 7+1 round S&W 4040PD in .40S&W pictured below) ...
(http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f136-1.jpg) (http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f136.jpg)
... (next to my 6+1 round R9S in 9mm Parabellum pictured above) and when circumstances do not allow me to carry my S&W 4040PD, then the R9S becomes my primary CCW.
Anyone else carry their R9 as a back-up gun? If so, what is your primary CCW? Photos?
(maybe this thread belongs in another forum)
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The R9 IS my primary carry gun.
Dick
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Alan ....... I doubt this pic is new to you but - my ever more exploited carry piece now is my SIG226 ..... soon to be charged with 15 round mag. I find that even now when warmer, my ''biker vest'' does all I need to maintain good concealment.
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/sig226-ct-393-s.jpg)
My R9 is most usually BUG, that is a fact but - instance the baptism of my grand daughter recently - it became primary as I only wore a shirt with Cabella's pants. The patch pocket holds the R9 very nicely and discretely.
Usual BUG position is similar pocket, per my Cabella's shorts which will soon be in use again (same as the Cabella's long pants re pockets). Now and again I use ankle carry for it too.
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>>Hi Chris...
How do you like the side activation buttons of the CT grips on your P226...?...compared to the front button activation buttons on CT grips for the S&W J frame or SP 101...??
I have the same type side connectors on the CTs for my Browning High Power...and I find them awkward to trigger with a natural hold...having to press the button with the tip of my middle finger on the far side of the grip. I'm not sure this type set up was intended to be triggered in this way, or perhaps with the flat of the hand on the near side...if that makes any sense...? Toughts, Sir...?...TW<<
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TW - you bring up a good point.
I personally have no probs with side ''pads'' on the SIG CT's - my hand size and finger reach works just 100% - the contact point being the pad of my strong hand middle finger - works just great. In low light I could take out a quarter size area of target!!
I have tho noticed when letting other folks try the gun - that those with smaller hands/shorter fingers - cannot make laser work reliably. I am lucky it does so well for me - but it will not be good for all.
I have the CT's on SP-101, 629 and also 28 - all these of course have front button - which is foolproof. Semi's tho demand a different construct - thus this pad deal.
I believe that the right hand pad on your BHP - or my SIG, is actually to allow ambi 'useage - in which case the shooter's left middle finger would do the business. Seems like it is the left side pad you and I need to use - which for me works A1 but you find I believe a tad unreliable.
I am a fan of CT's but would admit - the front button revo type grips are without doubt probably the most versatile for all folks.
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Fud,
For various reasons I generally only carry one gun at a time. Most often it is the R-9 as primary. When I can carry somethign larger, I carry my SP-101 (soon to have two choices!), or if I am really feeling dangerous, my 1911A1.
I really don't carry the R-9 as back-up. If I do have two guns on me, the second is my NAA mini-revolver in .22 Mag.
I would post pics of my other guns, but they are all over this forum already! ;D
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When I first bought my North American Arms .22, it did double duty.
Then, my Kel-Tec P-32 did double duty and occasionally still does.
Now, my North American Arms Guardian .380 usually does double duty.
Occasionally, my P-32 was backed up by my NAA .22. Or, my NAA .380 will be backed up by my P-32 or NAA .22.
When I get a Rohrbaugh, it will do double duty.
If a pocket gun is the only gun I am carrying, it is carried for a strong hand draw. If it is backing up my Glock 26, it is carried for a weak hand draw.
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>>Hi guys...
I just had several thoughts...
I wonder if we will ever have a strong showing (or showing at all?) from ZEE WO-MANS around here...? I know women own R9s, but they just don't seem chatty about their guns like on some other forums. I ask this because I occasionally start a thread with, "Hi guys", and I wonder when a member of our related species will one day pop up and clobber me for it...?...plus, it would be interesting to have a few inputs from women about the R9 and their experiences.
And to my original point... I would be interested in hearing y'alls' thoughts (and those of anyone else?) on your NAA Revo-guns...? I've been thinking about one of their "Black Widow" with a 2" barrel, fixed sights and cylinders for both .22 Mag and .22 Long. I wonder about things like what the .22 mag is like to shoot...?...thoughts on different barrel lengths...?...thoughts on the .22 short versions...? Thanks in advance for your inputs...!!
Oh, about double duty... I very rarely carry more than one gun on my person at a time, unless there might be a specific reason beyond my day to day habits...like going into a really bad area, or maybe if I am working as a vendor at an Expo or Convention within my areas of expertise, and where I know I will be carrying around large sums of cash. Perhaps more often...when traveling by car I might carry one gun and have another accessible in the car, or maybe have a couple different type guns locked up in my car safe. I personally just don't see the need for two guns given that I am not going out looking for trouble, like our Constables do. All that said, I would be interested in hearing other folks thoughts on this..."this" being day to day carry by civilians...TW<<
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TW - I have my NAA mini revo (1 5/8" barrel) with me now all the time. Why? Quite simply it is so darned tiny - it lives either in my vest pocket or top pocket of a shirt!!! I barely know it is there.
From a useage POV - well, obviously here we are thinking up (very) close and personal but ya know - shooting it against a target at about 15 feet - all shots go where they need to - really. I sure as heck would NOT want to take a round!
I always carry with the .22 WMR cyl - just keeping the .22lr for plinking fun now and again. There are, these days, quite a few times when that is enough as BUG and R9 stays at home.
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/naa-mini-36-s.jpg)
As for the ''Wiminz'' aspect - well, I truly wish we had more - both as members and contributors - I do like to hear their perspectives.
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I love my NAA mini in .22 Magnum. Its a well made gun from a great company. Also -- it will hide in places where no other gun will hide...
The .22 Mags are fun to shoot -- they twist the gun a lot, but are not painful or obnoxious IMHO. I didn't even bother with the .22 LR cylinder on this gun (had one before on a different Mini) because I don't shoot it that much and like shooting the magnums.
I like the Black Widows... But... I am not sure they are as useful. The extra weight and length make them slightly less concealable -- and closer to the P-3AT or R-9 or whatever. I think you get the most functionality out of a short barrelled .22 Magnum.
I have no experience with the .22 short, but I think you are giving up a lot of ballistics there...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/DDGator/MiniandLeek.jpg)
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>>Good point about the size issues of Black Widows, and is something I had wondered about. I've never shot .22 Mags before, and like the idea of shooting less expensive .22 Longs so I would likely go with the dual cylinder package, if I were to come upon a nice used specimen. BTW, I like that holster you have...is that one of RJ's...?
Now...today is MONDAY...!...how about pics and description of your new Gemini project...?...!!...TW<<
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The .22 Mag is still cheap compared to most stuff I shoot. I just don't shoot the Mini enough to worry about the price difference.
I love the holster -- it was made by Kevin at K&D, like most of my stuff. It is very simple and carries very easily.
The knife by the way is a limited edition Kershaw Random Leek with S30V steel and a reverse tanto.
And yes... its Monday. The guns coming from Gemini are still on a truck meandering through the Tampa Bay area for an expected 3pm delivery. My wife is supposed to sign for them and I won't actually be home from work until 9pm or so. >:(
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I've been thinking about getting the NAA mini in .22 Magnum but was concerned about the recoil. How does it compare to the R9 as far as kick is concerned?
I know that a 9mm kicks more than a .22mag but taking into consideration the better grip that you can get on the R9, how do the two compare?
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It is hard to compare the two because the guns are so different. However, I would definitely rate the Mini's recoil as less. The Mini's recoil is very snappy, but the gun mostly twists in your hand rather than transferring a lot of force. Of course, there is no trigger guard to smack your finger either.
I would say that although the Mini's recoil is less, it's still harder to shoot quickly because of the small nature of the grip.
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>>Speaking of recoil on the R9... I recently purchased some Pearce pinky extensions for the Kahr 9 (I think) and modified them to fit my R9 as shown on a thread around here several weeks ago. Of course it does make the R9 a bit bigger...but it gives so much better control of the gun and almost eliminates the "trigger finger smash on guard" syndrome...find the thread and try it out - for a couple bucks it's worth the try...!...TW<<
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Has anyone thought about what would happen in court when the word gets out that you were carrying not just one gun but two? In our politically correct society today we should all think about this. I can just hear the lawyers now!! Tom
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Just to agree with Duane re the Mini's recoil - really very manageable and a small amount of practice is enough to be well in control - it doesn't hurt! :D
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Tom - I think in part at least - it is just a ''spare tire'' deal. I mean - if you carry anyways - against that one dreaded time you may have to fight for your life - then you have already proved you are serious! Adding another gun - is just a precaution in case other breaks down.
Someone once said - there is no reload faster than a spare gun!! ;D
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I have to agree with Tom on this... While it would not be determinative on my decision to carry a back-up gun, it has to be a factor you consider.
An average juror doesn't understand the reason for carrying a gun at all. He or she has never been attacked, and/or has victim mentality -- wouldn't want to use a gun if they could. The mere fact that you carry a gun at all makes you look like a bit of a vigilante...
If you are carrying TWO guns (again -- they would never consider carrying ONE), you look like someone who really expects to have need for a gun -- like you are looking for trouble and hoping to use your gun.
CAVEAT: You all know me well enough to know I am not endorsing this ridiculous point-of-view -- I just recognize how people see things.
Chris -- the juror's won't see your spare tire analogy. To them, the back-up gun is like carrying a SECOND spare tire. Its yet another heavy, cumbersome thing taking up space that you should likely never need. Why carry a second spare unless you are pretty darn sure you are going to get a few flats. Right?
Of course, stay out of trouble and you may never face a jury. However, I think cops will see it the same way for people who are not cops. Just like the predisposition that good guys use holsters and bad guys don't -- two guns will strike them as someone looking for trouble. Cops have a lot of discretion and you don't want to be on the wrong side--they can sink you pretty quick.
My two cents worth.
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Sadly Duane I have to concede - you are most probably right - which is more than irritating as we all know why we carry!!
I hate this ''vigilante'' crap - it goes with the bliss-ninnie's ''rivers of blood'' garbage! I still tho will carry more than one whenever I choose - and if the dreaded day should come that I did have to use, in extremis - then I guess I'd have to get a good defence guy!
This whole deal is about self preservation - and I guess my point is - if we decide to take measures to enable us then ''go for broke''. :)
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We discussed backup guns here.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1110979475
I stand by the points I made in that thread.
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Re: mini-revolvers: I own one in .22 lr. with the 1 1/8" barrel. It is 1/2 the size the smallest .25 I have seen, twice as reliable, and penetration is better.
Accurate shooting is difficult. Rubber birds-head grips help, but accuracy is still limited to what I call "minute of mugger." Oversize grips help much more, but destroy the size advantage of the gun.
I get a lot less use out of mine since I got my P-32 and G380.
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If the second gun is legal, then the defense attorney will request that either (1) it's entry into evidence be prohibited as it is irrelevant and predudicial and (2) if it is entered, the judge should instruct the jury that it was legal and should not play a part on their decision.
Backup guns can save lives. If your gun jams, it's usually quicker to grab the backup then to clear the jam.
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Jarcher,
Those would be good arguments to make but I am not sure that success would be assured. The counter-argument is that your equipment selection is evidence of your intent, which is one of the elements of the crime you would be charged with.
Do you know of any reported cases where the irrelevance of the backup gun was argued?
As you can see from my post in the other thread, I totally agree with you that backup guns are a good idea. I am just looking for another way to bolster that position.
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Those would be good arguments to make but I am not sure that success would be assured.
In court, success is nevr assured. I have no case law to point to that bolsters my position. I wish I did. Conversely, I know of no cases where someone was convicted because they had a back up gun. If anyone else does, I would be interested to read them.
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Jarcher,
I doubt very much that such a case exists.