The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: USGuns on May 08, 2005, 08:13:16 PM
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Hello,
I've been admiring the Rohrbaugh R9 for some time and am considering ordering one. However, before I sink $1000 into a tiny pocket pistol, I have a few questions I'd like to run by the experienced owners here:
- I understand the R9 should only be shot with standard-pressure ammunition, no +P rounds. While a +P round in such a small pistol would be a handful, is the ability to handle +P ammo something being pursued by Rohrbaugh? Is it the frame that is the weak point there?
- I understand the Rohrbaugh is of heirloom quality. However I'm unsure about the long-term "heirloom" durability of an aluminum framed pistol. Any one here have any indepth knowledge of the long-term durability of a pistol constructed with the aluminum that Rohrbaugh uses.
- Is the R9 (without sights) actually available? Everyone seems to have the R9s.
Thanks!
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Welcome USGuns,
Unfortunately, I can't speak to the any future plans for +P rounds in the R9, -I'm just not in the know on that. Maybe one of the more "connected" members could shed some light on that.
As far as the durability, I have attached a link to the form discussing Eric's 5,000 round count on his R9. (http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1109634166)
I believe there is not problem getting an R9 without sights. Sights appear to have been an afterthought. The link to that thread is here. (http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1110461007;start=)
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There are no plans for a +P version. Karl worked for years to get a right minimum combination of frame/slide/springs to handle standard 9mm in the smallest possible package. A +P gun would be a totally different gun. Look for other calibers maybe... but not 9mm +P.
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Look for other calibers maybe... but not 9mm +P.
Speaking for myself, I don't see a need for the R9 in a different caliber. I understand that a .380ACP version might sell in countries that do not allow citizens to own military ammo but that is not the case here and I can't see myself carrying a .380 when a 9mm in the same size package is availabe.
The only other caliber that would make sense would be the .40S&W but, again, for me, that wouldn't be an option. I tried the MK40 and found it to be too much of a handful -- too much recoil and too little to hang on to. An R9 in that caliber would be even worse -- smaller & lighter than the MK40 would give it a mucher greater kick. Might be good for some folks but not for me.
A +P gun would be a totally different gun.
I would like to see a slightly larger version of the R9 rated for +P. Maybe something the size of the now discontinued Colt Pocket Nine.
In order for Rohrbaugh to grow, they have to go after more than one market segment. They already have the smallest & lightest 9mm gun currently in production. Price, however, is keeping it from selling like hotcakes. Consequentially, they need to expand in other areas. Other calibers is one way to go. A slightly larger and more beef'ed up version of the R9 designed to handle +P ammo is another way to go.
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Fud,
I thought there was no real reason to build an R-9 in .380 ACP...until I shot the prototype at the factory. This gun is a pussycat in .380. MUCH easier to shoot for those who are at all recoil shy. I think it will be a good seller for them.
I understand what you are saying about filling one niche. I think they have a variety of ideas in the works. However, price notwithstanding, there is no end in sight to the flow of orders for the R-9. There is also a lot of interest by governmental "alphabet" agencies and a lot of international interest as well. They are going to have their hands full for a while with this niche.
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>>I too have shot the R9 in .380 and agree with Duane about how it shoots = sweeeeeeeeeet. Yep...it's a .380, and I really don't think you should buy one (because that puts me one more notch up in line to buy MINE)...
The R9 in .380 will sell...big time...!...I am convinced with that. Of course I'm one of those nuts who had to have one each of the 9mm R9s - with and without sights. But you know what...?...I'm hardly alone here as I know at lest three of four guys around here with two R9s...so I feel in good company.
But for you - ? No...you definately don't want more than one type of R9, especially in a lower caliber **TW steps one more notch up on the .380 R9 list...hee, hee, heeeeee**...TW<<
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I think it will be called and R-380... ;D
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I woulden't mind one in .380. I don't the recoil of the 9mm is a problem, but for some reason a .380 just seems right. Maybe they can compromize and make it a .380 MAK (or 9mm MAK) or whatever that cartridge in between 9mm Para and .380ACP is called...
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the other thing to consider is that in .380 they would now be in competition with the Seecamp .380...a smaller and less expensive gun with a good reputation. A rohrbaugh in 380 wouldn't interest me unless it was as small or smaller than a Seecamp.
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The R-380 will be exactly the same size as the R-9.
Is the Seecamp that much cheaper? I thought they were pretty darn expensive and hard to come by too.
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>>I have a number of .380s...some bigger than an R9, some smaller. To me the R9 .380 (or R380...thank you, Duane) is just the "right" size...!...as if that caliber was made for that gun (which isn't far from the truth, but that story is for another day).
I suspect the R380 would be much less fussy than the R9 given the 9mm is pushing the limits of materials and technology compared to the more forgiving .380. And you know what...?... Out of the kindness of my heart I hereby offer my time and services to check out this theory...swell guy that I am. Did you hear that, Eric...?...!!...TW<<
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USGuns - late with my welcome. :)
I doubt now, having gotten used to the pup's slightly aggessive behavior :D - I'd be buying a .380 but - can well believe it could behave as a pussy cat!
I'd expect that a .380 will sell very well, both overseas and at home but - without taking market share from R9. IIRC the reason for 380 for some markets is that it is not a ''military'' cal ... I wonder tho if the Mak round ( 9x18 ) .. is free of that label - probably, but just not 100% sure.
IMO the Mak 9mm is a very capable round - not obviously a 9mm Para' but certainly up on the 9x 17 - .380 acp.
Sights? I guess most of us have the ''s'' model - but I could easily live without them - just ''nice to have'' :) Certainly - if making a more deliberate shot at say 20 - 25 yards - it must give a slight ''edge''.
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The R-380 will be exactly the same size as the R-9.
Is the Seecamp that much cheaper? I thought they were pretty darn expensive and hard to come by too.
There are always 3-4 on Gunbroker and they sell between $700-800. Saw one go for $700 NIB just last week. So yes they are expensive and still in short supply but in a relative way they are cheaper and more available. The .32 Seecamps are flooding Gunbroker and go unsold at $350.
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The Seecamp is also a blowback design whereas the Rohrbaugh is locked breech. The locked breech designs tend to have less felt recoil and so a R380 should be a nicer gun to shoot than the Seecamp 380.
Anyone know what the timeframe is for the Rohrbaugh R380 to be available?
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USGuns - this is not quoting Eric or anyone - but my feeling is, this gun is maybe 18 months to two years down the line. For time being R9 is priority.
As and when Duane, TW or I - or anyone else for that matter gets any definitive info - this forum will I'll all but guarantee - be the first with the heads up! :)
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USGuns, could you please explain this statement to me, thanks. :-/
The Seecamp is also a blowback design whereas the Rohrbaugh is locked breech. The locked breech designs tend to have less felt recoil and so a R380 should be a nicer gun to shoot than the Seecamp 380
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mismatch,
This link can explain it better than I can: http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/basics/operation.html
On that page, it lists what I called locked breech as "recoil".
HTH
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A couple follow-up questions:
1) If I was to order an R9 today, when could I reasonably expect delivery? Ballpark guess?
2) How DO I order an R9? Just go down to my local dealer as usual and say "order me a Rohrbaugh"! Or do I need to contact Rohrbaugh Firearms first?
Thanks!
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USG - how long is a piece of cord? :D
I reckon you should be able to order thru a dealer, as long as said dealer knows how to implement it!
OTOH, a call to speak with Maria (631 242 3175) could well mean you can get an approx delivery period and - if you have an FFL set up thru which to order then maybe an order can be placed direct - at least - a gun ''reserved''.
I have a feeling that a fresh order may be seeing a delivery time of late summer - but don't quote me on that!!!
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USGuns,
Thanks for the info, have you by chance examined the R9 to determine if that is the type of lockup that is used? I have not received my pistol ( R9 ) as of yet, but I am sure looking forward to doing a close inspection! The web that you suggested to look at had a wealth of information on semi and full auto function. Thanks again. ;D
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Mismatch - if you haven't looked yet - take a peek on my FAQ site, where there are some pics of the gun taken down. You'll see by looking at the barrel that it has a lug under the chamber - it is a ''floating'' barrel - which only locks up when slide closed - ''locked breech''.
A Bersa Thunder or Mak - ''blowback'' have their barrels as a fixed and rigid part of the frame - no barrel movement during the cycle of firing. This can make for a bit more perceived recoil.
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Chris,
I did go to your FAQ site, and after reading you post it all makes sense! How crazy, all my life I've handled and used handguns and never gave it a thought as to why we perceive recoil as we do! After thinking about your response and explanation a light came on and everything made sense. I'm sure, considering the caliber ( 9mm ) the Rohrbaugh brothers had to figure on the best and strongest lockup they could come up with for the R9. Thank you again :)
Fred
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Chris,
I did go to your FAQ site, and after reading you post it all makes sense! How crazy, all my life I've handled and used handguns and never gave it a thought as to why we perceive recoil as we do! After thinking about your response and explanation a light came on and everything made sense. I'm sure, considering the caliber ( 9mm ) the Rohrbaugh brothers had to figure on the best and strongest lockup they could come up with for the R9. Thank you again :)
Fred
>>Hi Fred...
We be PROUD of our Chris...he be one smart fella...!...TW<<
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TW - flattery Sir - will get you everywhere!!! Thank you.
No - not smart - just enthusiastic (for my age! :P )