The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: MountainMan on June 21, 2005, 12:46:00 AM

Title: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000?
Post by: MountainMan on June 21, 2005, 12:46:00 AM: Seeing that the NIB R9S in classified wasn't snatched up, when its cost was probably close to the new price, makes me wonder if there is a psychological block for many on paying over a $1000 for a R9 - or maybe any handgun. It wouldn't have stopped me if I really wanted one in a hurry, but for many going past the $1000 cost is problem - and $1100 to $1200 is even worse.

I think the R9 is worth every penny and understand the reason for the price increase - I would pay it. I also believe that many who could justify to themselves paying $900 to $950, may not be able to convince themselves, or a wife, that going over $1000 is ok - especially if there is some sacrifice involved. It is like a $1 seems so much more the 99 cents.

Could this cause a slow down in interest and sells. Hope not. It doesn't bother me but it may enough people to make it noticable. Or am I the only one thinking this.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: Skyhook on June 21, 2005, 08:16:55 AM: It may be one of those 'fleeting moment' kind of things. For instance, ten years ago, I'd never have paid $2.30 for a gallon of gasoline.

Not only that, in checking out the prices of numerous other handguns, some much less fine-tuned and well-made as the R9, I see a lot of them hover around the $800 to $1000 range.

No, I think this $1000 price for this item will bear out as acceptable for those caring for the quality and workmanship.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: logical on June 21, 2005, 09:10:39 AM: I think there is definately price pressure at around $1000. While we all love the idea of and the actual gun, it is a relatively small market. 99% of gun owners probably never CCW and the R9s makes little sense to them. People go nuts over Sigs and you see lots of guys who own one or more of most every gun Sig makes...they'll buy one of every new $900 gun that Sig comes out with. But that same guy can't bring himself to buy a $1200 Sig. I know the 1911 guys are the exception but even they won't pay $1000 unless they are getting something customized that they can call their own design.

I would hope for the sake of their survival that Rohrbaugh looks at lowering or at least stabilizing the price once they get production up to speed and start to match demand. Given the small market, they will probably catch up with demand a lot sooner than most think and then you'll start to see barely used guns selling for less than new guns. Used R9s now carry a distorted price because they are available "right now". If you can go into any shop some day soon and buy a new one for $1000 or less.....a used gun sudenly becomes a $800 gun.

The other thing is that the bigger makers are not going to stand still. Kahr and others will no doubt keep whittling away at their product's size and sooner or later there will be a "comparable" gun that potential Rohrbaugh buyers will consider.

Look at the Seecamp .32. People waited months and months to pay $5-6-700 for them. Now the .380 Seecamps (and I suppose even the Kel-Tecs) come on stream and overnight the .32 Seecamp becomes a gun you can get right away for $350 NIB. (There are at least a dozen on Gunbroker constantly). Fortunately for the Seecamp guys, they created the gun that took over their market share. Is Rohrbaugh in a position to do the same? Maybe.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: RJ HEDLEY on June 21, 2005, 10:07:47 AM: "I would hope for the sake of their survival that Rohrbaugh looks at lowering or at least stabilizing the price once they get production up to speed and start to match demand." logical
______________________________

Logical, I don't understand the statement above.
I remember 32 Seecamps selling for $1200, but Larry Seecamp had no control of that.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: logical on June 21, 2005, 10:36:04 AM: Quote
"I would hope for the sake of their survival that Rohrbaugh looks at lowering or at least stabilizing the price once they get production up to speed and start to match demand." logical
______________________________

Logical, I don't understand the statement above.
I remember 32 Seecamps selling for $1200, but Larry Seecamp had no control of that.

I just meant they should be careful about raising prices, which I understand they recently have. I think it's important that a product have a MSRP that is somewhat in the ballpark of the actual market price.

My point was Larry seecamp recognized that his .32 would not sell for $1200 forever so he resisted raising his MSRP and dealer price to that level.....and at the same time was working on the next generation...the .380. He planned for the day when his .32 would have a street price of $400 and not $1200.

BTW RJ...I have one of your black back pockets and a mag carrier I got in a package deal with a gun. Any idea when things might open up so I can have you build me a front pocket LE?
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: RJ HEDLEY on June 21, 2005, 11:20:38 AM: The secondary maket is regulated somewhat by greed , supported by supply and demand.

The Rohrbaugh market has more real and very rigid cost factors.

Logical, drop me an E mail.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: theirishguard on June 21, 2005, 02:16:42 PM: I have sold the Seecamp .32 for years. First at $350 then on to $425 and $450, the retail prices. This was when they were very hard to get. Larry sold his guns at dealer prices and MSRP to end users. The wait was several months to a year or more. A lot of the .32s that I sold were bought by dealers, who in turn sold them at real high prices ie: $750-$900. The rest of my guns went to regular customers and police officers. All the prices were the same-MSRP. I got guns every month. Larry was doing all he could to make more guns and keep the quality up, Larry was then and is still now selling his guns at dealer and MSRP prices. The market and demand drove the prices up. The same is true of the Seecamp .380, they are very hard to get. Again Larry has his dealer prices and MSRP of $850. Again the demand is driving the prices up. A lot of the firearm manufactures are in the north east. This blue area is doing all it can to drive the firearm industry out of business. High taxes, permits, fees & etc. Larry can't even get a building permit to finish his new building. So, lets take a look at the true costs to make a gun. Raw materials, labor cost, insurance,taxes, permit fees & etc. I really think Seecamp and Rohrbaugh are trying to keep the prices down and continue to build a quality product. They are not trying to rape the market. Others are doing that. Everything is going up, not just the price of our pup. If one buys a firearm to save your life for $950 to $1000, is your life not worth $1100 to $1200? Lets do our part and continue to love our pup, take good care of it, feed it quality ammo and tell others what a great gun it is. Just some thoughts! Regards, Tom
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: logical on June 21, 2005, 02:33:45 PM: I hope I didn't appear to be in any way critical of Rohrbaugh...I have seen and heard nothing but the acts of a great long-term company. The underlying key of course has been the obvious obcession with only releasing top quality guns. Without that, premium pricing would be impossible.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: theirishguard on June 21, 2005, 02:49:19 PM: Logical, My thoughts were only that the market and demand sets the prices, both new and used. Regards, Tom
Title: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000?
Post by: TW on June 21, 2005, 03:41:42 PM: >>A few months ago I had a long discussion with Eric about this very issue.

The Rohrbaugh boys tossed and turned quite a bit before setting the original retail price, which alludes my memory just now, but would guess around $950??? But fact is...before they came to that price...they actually considered TWICE that amount, at just under $2K (or was it more than that...?...hmmm)...!!

So would all you guys have paid $1,995 for your treasured, life saving Pup...? In truth, I would have...but I probably would NOT have purchased the second R9. So what does that say...? Well, for one I wouldn't have a safe queen in addition to my regular carry gun. Interesting - because in what I just said... I agreed to pay almost two grand for a life saver, but not so as a "collector". But what is the intended market...? Pocket carry as a LIFE SAVER...!

In the long run I'm glad to have been able to afford both guns, but I really don't "need" the second R9. Food for thought. Again...what would other folks here have paid for the R9 carry piece / possible life saver, and what about those of you who own two or more R9s...??...TW<<
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: logical on June 21, 2005, 03:55:19 PM: Quote
In the long run I'm glad to have been able to afford both guns, but I really don't "need" the second R9. Food for thought. Again...what would other folks here have paid for the R9 carry piece / possible life saver, and what about those of you who own two or more R9s...??...TW

Trust me, I am the ranking King of justifying/rationalizing things that cost twice as much as the comparable alternatives.
(http://www.photopile.com/photos/logical/auctions/198425.jpg)

and I'm still not over my facination with this moving text command
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: Aglifter on June 23, 2005, 01:52:55 PM: I think the Rohrbaugh is really pretty fairly priced, for a well-built, American made gun -- it is certainly far better built than my Kimber Pro Carry II, which was only maybe $100 cheaper -- and that was from a dealer that gives me pretty good prices. I think the reality is, if you don't want/fit a plastic gun -- I've tried Glocks and FN 49s and neither fit, and you want a semi-auto -- frankly, I'm amazed at how cheap a S&W airlight is -- yes, I know they're simple, but they work v. well -- you have to pay quite a bit for metal pieces run on a CNC machine, by a skilled man. Federalist Society member rant deleted.

Brad
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: R9SCarry on June 23, 2005, 02:44:42 PM: The old price deal - is as ever IMO in part at least governed by ''perceived value'' - this applies to so much we buy too. Second to that is - or should be hopefully - some appreciation of just what investment has to be made, in time and equipment to actually get a product to the marketplace.

In the case of the R9 - I can only begin to guess what vast sums have been laid out - being an engineer who was at one time prototyping and doing development work (much was ''hands on''), I know all too well how costs accrue.

So - my own $1k ''mental block'' element was assuaged by consideration of these two criteria. Firstly I know I have invested wisely in a fine firearm (twice - ouch!) - and secondly I have the empathy directed towards the fiscal background to the pup.

Now the Bros R are esconsed in their new factory, and having got even more machinery - my mind boggles at the kind of capital outlay involved - and the pay-back thru sales must perforce be both viable and inevitably pretty long term. Add to that - these guys have lives to lead and bills to pay of their own - bottom line - they MUST eventually see a profit, unless they only intend to provide a ''charity'' service to us gunnies! :D

From my pocket's POV - it was severely depleted thru purchases of R9's - that said - I feel no remorse, knowing just what it is I am fortunate enough to have custodianship over.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: Newt on June 23, 2005, 04:21:58 PM: How many $500ish guns we must all have in our safes. I figured that I would rather have this fine tool that works PERFECTLY(yes I'm shouting) for its intended use than to have two more $500 guns. Then I was so impressed I had to have another. I just shot #2 today again free hand at 25+ft. and cannot belive the accuracy this little gem is capable of. IMO it is worth every penny and then some. For those who hesitate, don't wait, and to those who are waiting stay the course and your reward will be worth the wait. :D
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: logical on June 23, 2005, 07:29:50 PM: No question it's a good value at current prices.....but back to the original question, I think the market gets a whole lot tougher on the oher side of $1000.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: MountainMan on June 23, 2005, 08:52:37 PM: Having started this thread I always thought the R9 was undervalued. Now I'm a guy who carries a handmade knife that I could probably sell for $1000 and has three Seecamps - so I'm crazy to begin with - therefore I'm probably not the average gun buying Joe. When I meet the Rohbaugh gang at the NRA convention and held the gun two years ago I was very impressed. My mind kept coming back to it and I couldn't take it anymore - so here I am talking to you guys and waiting for my Irishguard Tom R9s to arrive in a few months - I hope.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: R9SCarry on June 23, 2005, 10:04:19 PM: Logical - re the $1,000 being a ''mental block''. Many years back it might have been but - even tho we all see crazy pricing, like $999.99 just to ''look better'', those of us who appreciate quality and also realize what goes in to the whole thing - probably are less ''block'' oriented - more of a ''what it takes'' approach.

Sure there will be some who baulk at even one cent over a grand! :D

So, long and short - no I don't think this is a true barrier in this kind of market. Look at all the ''loaded'' 1911's and ''race guns'' and how there it is easy to spend $1500, up to near $3k!! Folks want certain things and enough are prepared to pay.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: MountainMan on June 23, 2005, 10:25:22 PM: When a friend of mine received his R9S several weeks ago that was purchased at the old price I told him I would give him $1300 for it unfired (Tom - you didn't see this - I still have your quote) if he decided it wasn't the gun for him. Why - because I wanted to compensate him for his wait and I thought the gun was worth at least that. Well he still has it.
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: Brenden on June 23, 2005, 10:39:23 PM: Quote
Logical - re the $1,000 being a ''mental block''. Many years back it might have been but - even tho we all see crazy pricing, like $999.99 just to ''look better'', those of us who appreciate quality and also realize what goes in to the whole thing - probably are less ''block'' oriented - more of a ''what it takes'' approach.

Sure there will be some who baulk at even one cent over a grand! :D

So, long and short - no I don't think this is a true barrier in this kind of market. Look at all the ''loaded'' 1911's and ''race guns'' and how there it is easy to spend $1500, up to near $3k!! Folks want certain things and enough are prepared to pay.

I know it is NOT a barrier to me..And I am not a big wage earner-Just a "Gun Nut" ;D

I have # 2 coming-looks like middle of July.. ;D

I have fell into the M4 thing lately and if 1000 K was the barrier, EBRs would be impossible.. :o

I do believe that the R9 will stand the normal test of time concerning pricing..

Quality = demand = "cabbage" 8)
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: dmobrien2001 on June 27, 2005, 11:20:27 PM: For me, since I had a PM9, the R9S wasn't that much smaller, nor "better" for the money. It is incrementaly smaller, higher quality (for sure), but the value equation for me would have broken down had the R9S been >$1000. It would not have been worth it to me to get the incremental value (smaller, higher quality) at a much higher price point.

(I know, I know, the list price for a Kahr PM9 is around $700 so just a few hundred dollars more..., but! it is possible to find a PM9 significantly discounted in the $550 range. The same cannot be said of the Rohrbaugh. So we are talking 1.5-2X the cost.)
Title: Re: Is there a mental block on paying over a $1000
Post by: outlawyr on July 27, 2005, 04:51:29 PM: See my post under the $$$PRICE$$$ thread - I don't think you have to pay over $960 anymore and that should even come down further.