The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: BlueGrips on July 25, 2005, 06:14:56 PM
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I was able to jam my Rohrbaugh just by racking the slide. I can reproduce it all day long, even using two different magazines. The ammo was Speer GoldDot 124GR GDHP. See below:
Here is the 1st jam just by racking the slide back and let go. The slide got stuck open and the bullet still sat in the magazine. This would happen once every few racks.
(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/01.JPG)
(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/02.JPG)
I then rack the slide again and let go. This time both bullets got stuck. The only way to undo the situation was to take a chopstick and push down on the 2nd bullet while securing the slide (racking the slides won't help)
(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/03.JPG)
Now, I was able to reproduce the same exact situation with another brand new magazine.
(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/04.JPG)
(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/05.JPG)
Taking the gun apart reveals nothing abnormal.
(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/06.JPG)(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/07.JPG)
(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/08.JPG)(http://rcfalcon.com/stuff/Rohrbaugh/jam/09.JPG)
Bought and carried it daily for almost two months, the gun has only 20 bullets through it, by me, using the same ammo from the start. It has been well cleaned and oiled w/SuperLube. Maybe I need to shoot more to break her in?
I am hoping if the board can see anything obvious w/o having me sending the gun in to be checked. Any input will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Cheers!
Cuteo
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Are you riding the slide home or are you yanking it back and letting go? I have not had this problem but I always snap the slide back and release when fully rearward. Is the gun jamming during firing? If not I don't think you have a problem, alot of autos will jam if you ride the slide. even a AR15. ??? :o
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Are you riding the slide home or are you yanking it back and letting go?
Newt: I always yank it out all the way and release. I have several other semi-autos in .45ACP, 40S&W, and 9mm and never have any issues with racking them slides. I originally suspected that at first but now I ruled that out: It jammed again after I read your message and verified my racking style.
Is the gun jamming during firing?
Yes. I had 2 during firing a few weeks ago. However, since I thought that the slide pin was coming loose I requested a new pin from the factory. The sent me two immediately (great guys!) But this racking problem seems to be of a different issue. Would hate to have sending her in.
Cheers!
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By looking at the pictures again it seems maybe the mag is letting the bottom bullets push up on the chambering bullet. Try to close mag lips some.
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sure sounds like a magazine problem except for two things:
it didn't happen in the first twenty rounds and it happened
with two magazines.
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was the magazine fully seated?
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I wonder re mag' seating tho - pretty much assume this would be the case (properly seated).
I can say honestly I have never had this occur with ANY ammo - and I carry with 124 GD's. I sling-shot the slide - every time round picks up and goes into battery - perfectly.
I do think leaving this aside - the gun maybe needs toward the 100 round mark for a good break-in - JMHO.
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Tracker: I always make sure that the magazine is fully seated and the retainer is clamped on well.
I do think leaving this aside - the gun maybe needs toward the 100 round mark for a good break-in - JMHO.
Chris: I think you are on to something. I will shoot more rounds in the next days to break her in and report back. I suspect that the nature of the design (tight tolerance) may have some affect.
Thanks to all.
Cheers!
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Update: Went to the range and put two boxes of Winchester white boxes (100 bullets) and another box of Speer GD 124g through her this morning. No hickups whatsoever. One thing interesting was that I could not duplicate the racking issue with ball ammos.
Afterward, I went home and tried racking it again using the Speer GD ammo. Got one jam out of every 12 to 18 racks. :-[
So, I stripped it down, cleanned, (Inspected the barrel lips, etc. No nicks,etc. ), lubed it well, and put it back together. Tried racking it again. So far so good, no failures! I am keeping my fingers crossed! ;D
Cheers!
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Basically sounds good - tho that is a lotta ammo thru before a clean!!!
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I have been composing a range report on my first two sessions with my new R9S but decided to jump in here. I had exactly the same problem. I don’t have all my statistics calculated yet but here is what I know. I am not an expert on all of the lingo so please forgive me if this could be explained better.
Started with Speer Gold Dot 124gr. 1st magazine no failures. (Believe it or not, the very first round was a bull’s eye at 7 yds, medium slow aim.) 18 mags total, 11 mags had at least one jam. 116 rounds, 19 jams: some with the bullet nose jammed low on the barrel, some jammed in the barrel angled upward, some jammed at the top of the barrel and some as shown in Cuteo’s photos.
Switched to Remington 115 gr MC round nose. 35 rnds, no jams. One round did not fire on the first try, dent in the primer, reloaded and next trigger pull did the job.
I will reduce all the data in the next few days and write up a report. For now I am not very happy.
CraigT
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I had the exact same problem, except it was with 2 boxes of 20 rounds of 115 gr. Speer Gold Dot. I had also purchased 2 boxes of 124 gr. Gold Dot, and had zero problem with those, it was just the 115 gr. Gold dots that gave me the problem. I have since run 2, 50 round boxes of Speer Gold Dot through it, zero problems.
At the time, and maybe it was my imagination, but the 115's looked slightly longer than the 124's, I had no way to measure them at the time. I wish now I would have kept a couple of rounds and did some comparisons. My thought is that it was a slightly out of spec lot of 115 gr. Gold Dot ammo.
Want to add that my s/n is R768, what is your? Maybe something with the Rohrbaugh s/n range.
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#747 belongs to me and I didn't have any problems with
30 rounds of Gold Dot 124 on the first range visit. This
sounds like a problem that needs a factory resolution.
In any case carrying this gun with anything less than
6+1 seems ill-advised.
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someone else mentioned that they had a glitch for not
seating the last round far enough back in the magazine
and I noticed that it takes a little extra effort. Is that
a possibility?
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My R9S was shipped from Deer Park last week. I took delivery the day after it arrived at my dealer, and it is s/n R360. As I reported in another thread, my range experience on 26-July-05 was very good. No failures of any kind with Speer GD in 115, 124, & 147 gr. ammo. Two indications of very hard primers with 115 gr UMC hardball practice stuff. Both of those rounds fed okay, just wouldn't fire.
I think the s/n isn't a good indicator of when a particular gun was built, just when the frame was started. I remember reading that many frames were re-processed for anodizing and machining updates.
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tracker, I am happy that 747 is running good. It might be the over all length that is the problem. I wonder if the bbl could be throated or polished a little more. take care, Tom
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That is a good thought,Tom; almost all of my other
pistol inventory have had their throats polished.
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Fired my R9S for the first time on Saturday. Shot 250 rounds of Remington UMC 115gr and 40 rounds of Speer Golddot 124gr without any failures. The recoil was not as bad as I expected. The only thing that did happen was toward the end when my hand was getting tired and my palms were a little sweaty, I didn't rack the slide back far enough because my hand slipped and the round got stuck with the slide open. This happened twice and I attributed both times to not pulling the slide back far enough. I don't consider this a design flaw, I consider it user error. Overall I am very happy with the gun.
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Good to hear Po-Pee but - lotta ammo all in one hit with no cleaning!! Or did you?
Surprised (no, impressed! :) ) you managed that much before hand said ''ouch'' - I have big and fairly tough hands but that'd be more than I'd want in one session! :o
True enough - sweat and poorer grip could well lead to inadequate slide op' - I am thinking of adding two small strips of grip tape to front and rear of grip frame for my carry R9.
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Update: I was the one who started this thread with all the jamms. I now started using Militec-1 oil on the throat area. Rubbed it on good, let the gun get hot (heat lamp), then wiped clean. Repeated the process 3 times. The throat area is now as smooth as butter! AND I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED ANY MORE JAMMS! NONE!
I agree that polishing the throat is the answer. As I have stated before, I fully racked the slide when it was jamming bad.
Cheers!
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Great news and an excellent example of the benefits of
this forum and the collaborative thoughts of kindred spirits.
It also might be a good heads-up for the rest of us to polish that throat a bit; I know I will.
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My Gunsmith advises to use "Flitz" on a felt bob[dremel]
3/8" by 1/2" and to take it slow and easy in polishing
the throat.
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Tracker - I have used - I think I remember name properly - ''Simichrome'' - using same Dremel mop. For even finer abrasive effect - a std (not the fansy-pansy) simple white toothpaste. :)
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"Simichrome", it is; I found a tube in the drawer and I
will use it instead of Flitz. Thanks.
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Update: Almost two months later... the gun never jammed or failed to feed again. It was the polishing/buffing of the throat area and switching to Militec-1 that did the trick.
There seems to be a lot of failed to feed posts lately. I say carefully polish the barrel's throat and see if it will help.
Cheers!
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It is interesting to me that if polishing the throat is such a great way to avoid jams, why it doesn't come from the factory with the throat highly polished. It seems that this would be easy for the factory to do.
Anyone know an answer to this?
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Well, this is interesting. In my short range session today, twelve GD 124s, the session was cut short as the third mag feeding did not go well; The rnd jammed tightly into the feed ramp. The next five or six attempts resulted in exactly the same problem. I was thinking I had something unique to my habits, etc., but, no, it is something I have not experienced with any of my Glocks, Colts, Sigs, etc.
I am going to dissemble the beastie and look at that feed ramp. Funny thing is, the gun shot two mags full w/o a hiccough. It is, like the original post stated, happening only as I try to rack one in after reloading.
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After cleaning and minor polishing (not quite mirror-smooth, yet), the rounds slip up and into the breech without any hesitation.
I'm going to be on the look-out for that Miltec-1 and will do the 'roasting' procedure to that ramp.
I have not fired the gin since, but, feeding with recoil was not a problem- it was just the reloading that produced those jams.
To the probable cause list- ramp angle, slight cross-wise machining marks, I'd add the composition of the bullet. RN in my 1911s always fed reliably as the HPs would usually be the problematic rnds.
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Skyhook,
Militec will gladly send you a free sample of the oil, and grease too. Just apply it, and heat with wife's hair dryer.
http://www.militec-1.com/
Do a "Contact Us", and send them an email requesting a free sample of oil and grease.
It is commonly done. I think they ship pretty fast.
I purchased a bottle after getting my free sample.
Bill
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I had the same problem with racking the first round from a magazine into the chamber with Silvertips and solved the problem very easily with a more aggressive slingshot of the slide rather than just pulling it back to let it go forward. What I do is the same time I pull the slide back and let it go I push the gun forward and down to get a better snap. It hasn't failed once. And of course, after every so many rounds, clean the ramp.
HiCap
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Have to agree - agressive slingshot is most reliable - same applies IMO to any semi - get that slide accelerating fwd at max.
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I've experienced the failure to feed out of magazine 2 times at a round count of 50 or so. I attributed this to not "sling shotting" the slide. After further reflection it dawned on me that I'd chambered those top most rounds a number of times.
During the next 25 rounds I placed "fresh" rounds into mag last. Those 3 or 4 old rounds functioned perfectly through the gun from mid to low magazine position.
Perhaps its from racking and ejecting the rounds to offen that might be to blame?
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Iorndealer,
You may be on to something there. Repeated loading and ejecting of a round definitely puts some lines on the brass. (This was covered in another thread, but I can't find it.)
I've seen some creases on my often-ejected brass. What I do is set those rounds aside for use during practice. I won't chance carrying 'em for defense. Many "experts" recommend shooting your carry ammo after no longer than 4 to 6 months and loading your mags with fresh rounds. That way you avoid the possibility of finding a damaged case or a lube-contaminated primer at the worst possible time.
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I determined, after someone else suggested it, that the dings in my cartridge happened when chambering a round from a full clip -- now I put one the initial round in the mag, chamber it, drop the mag and reload it -- since then there have been no other dings -- also, I've stopped carry Gold dots -- electroplating really weakens metal (at least it does relative to cars), and mine were nickel plated brass cases -- I now carry either bydroshocks or silvertips
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From a ballistics standpoint, both silvertips and hydra shok are significantly inferior to Gold Dot. Both those rounds use a non-bonded obsolete design. GDHP is some of the finest self-defense ammo available. GDHP will penetrate, expand and retain weight better than either of those, as shown in lab tests with ballistic gelatin. Just thought you might wish to consider that.
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Ballistics are one part of the equation and reliability is certainly another.
As of this time, having my R9s jam several times while attempting a reload (clean gun, full mag, GDs), I have zero confidence in this gun being reloaded while the operator is under duress. I consider it a six/seven-shot only weapon.
That may change if I find the Silver Tips or even standard FMJ round-nose bullets feeding reliably.
What I am wondering is whether or not it would be reasonable to order a "spare" bbl and machine the ramp to a lesser angle.
When those GDs butt into that ramp, there's no telling whether or not they will stop cold or continue on. This is 'ok' for range behavior, but I demand better from a personal carry piece.
Bullet performance happens only after proper feeding, so I am looking for a better ogive, better metal jacket, or both.
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As of this time, having my R9s jam several times while attempting a reload (clean gun, full mag, GDs), I have zero confidence in this gun being reloaded while the operator is under duress. I consider it a six/seven-shot only weapon.
Since it's that bad, I suggest you send it back to Rohrbaugh. I agree with your concern and would not accept that level of reliability for carry either.
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Skyhook
What you have happening is so rare I would send it back. You read those that get their R9 and put a 100 GDs through it without a hitch. Will see how it goes when I try mine out for the first time.
Dave
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Yeah, I am considering sending it back to Rohrbaugh; that is one of the options.
So far, I did shoot two mags of ammo before the jamming. As of now, even with a clean gun, plenty of lube, carefylly loaded mag, I cannot get the first rnd to reliably strip off.
I did find that if I place one (1) rnd in the mag, the feeding goes 'OK', but with three, four, or six, in the mags... JAM!
I do suspect either the follower or that ramp angle.
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But the gun feeds reliably when you actually shoot it? Is there anything preventing the slide from going all the way back when you pull it by hand?
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But the gun feeds reliably when you actually shoot it? Is there anything preventing the slide from going all the way back when you pull it by hand?
Yes, there is no problem with the feed-while-firing so far and that's why I am holding back on the contacting the factory personnel.
No, the slide is snapped full-back before release.. I'll check this part again, however.
Thanks.