The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Michigunner on August 31, 2005, 06:03:38 PM
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I've been thinking about trying Magsafe because of the claimed low recoil.
Have any of you folks tried it, and noticed reduced recoil?
Thanks,
Bill
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Bill:
I consider MagSafe to be an excellent cartridge. In the past, I have carried them and Glasers in my pocket pistols. Lately, however, I have gotten away from prefragmented rounds and have been carrying JHPs. My current CCW round of choice in all calibers is the Remington Golden Saber. In 9mm Luger, I prefer the 147-grain cartridge.
This is just my current thinking. I am always looking around and trying new cartridges.
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Richard,
Thank you. I may try a couple of packs. They do seem a little expensive.
My favorite is also Golden Saber, but all the boxes are +P. I've got some Ranger RA9T 147gr ready for the R9S.
Bill
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Richard,
Did you feel there was a noticeable improvement in recoil, when using Magsafe?
That would be a wonderful feature considering the small size of our R9.
I wouldn't want to fire the customary 200 rounds to see if they are reliable. I think the cost would be too much for that.
I'm hoping my Ranger 147 gr rounds will be milder. Otherwise, the Magsafe is starting to look rather good.
Bill
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Bill:
Felt recoil is highly subjective, but my recollection is that the MagSafe ammunition did seem to have less recoil than some other rounds.
As for the Golden Sabers, I know that Remington manufactures a 124 gr. 9mm Luger cartridge in +P, but I thought the 147 gr. GS was offered only as a standard pressure HPJ ("High Performance Jacket"). The box I now have before me reads, "Remington Golden Saber, 9mm Luger, 147 Grain Brass Jacketed Hollow Pt., GS9MMC."
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I may have to order some Magsafe. There is money burning a hole in one pocket.
All my Golden Sabers are 124 +P. I've got Winchester Ranger 147 to try first.
I had an X-ray the other day to see why the little R9 causes such a sting. After reviewing the matter with the good doctor next week, he may just say "Shoot more, and shut up".
Bill
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I haven't tried Magsafes or Glasers in my R9S either. I have fired a fair number of .40 S&W Magsafes & couldn't feel much difference in my H&K USP. A check of Magsafe's website lists three 9mm loads: http://www.magsafeonline.com/prices_specs.jsp
1) +P (a no-no for a Rohrbaugh)
2) #9 MG, a new load for the Mini Glock and other short barrel pistols. 50 gr. @ 2,000 ft/sec for 444 ft-lb muzzle energy
3) #9 Defender 60 gr @ 1,800 ft/sec for 431 ft-lb and lowest recoil (Magsafe's claim).
All the Magsafe loads have a lot of muzzle energy thanks to the extremely high velocity, but their momentum is about 20% lower due to the light bullets. Projectile mass & velocity (momentum), mass & velocity of powder charge (momentum), and mass of gun is what you use to calculate free recoil of the gun. That's the scientifical explanation. As Richard S points out, felt recoil is highly subjective. But if you are using the same gun in a back-back comparison you should notice a difference.
When I first got my R9S, I found I could feel the difference between a 115 GDHP and a 147 GDHP, but I couldn't tell the difference between 115 & 124 gr GDHPs, or 124 & 147 gr GDHPs.
Maybe that's just me, so I'll stick with the Rohrbaugh recommendation and carry the 115 grain GDHP.
BTW: Magsafes list for $16.95 per package of 8 rounds! :o
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I've used Magsafe ammo in all of my pocketguns since about 1990. I love the ammo. And, yes, felt recoil is less. For the last 1.5 years, I've been thinking about using RBCD in my 32 ACP pistols, but I still haven't switched.
Glasser, Magsafe, and RBCD have all excellent track records. Glasser is now owned by CorBon.
I have always used the Magsafe "Defender" series. That is their standard pressure loading.
Yes, Magsafe ammo is pricey. It is virtually hand made. For years they used the Remington GS bullet that they "de-leaded" and then refilled with epoxy and filled with no. 8 through 2 birdshot.
As to cost, I budget about $250 a year for Magsafe ammo. That translates into $20 a month.
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I like the idea of long-term carry with the same rounds. The price is OK if you could keep them in the pistol a long time.
It's just the idea of doing extensive reliability tests that stings.
Maybe an initial order of three boxes of Magsafe would not hurt too bad.
I notice they want a copy of your driver's license faxed to the factory.
So the order was placed through sportsmansguide.com, which merely asks your birthdate.
The grand total was $49.40 for 24 rounds, almost $2.06 each.
Yes, I just woke up from a twenty-year sleep, and didn't realize a 9mm round costs so much. :)
Bill
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If one can believe the published test data, the killing ability of Magsafe rounds is unsurpassed. If you feel more comfortable with a mag full of GD124's, you can always put one Magsafe in the chamber for the +1 of the 6+1. Who knows, if you hit your target well with the first shot, the Magsafe may save you the cost of replacing the GD's. My personal feeling is this: if I ever do have to shoot someone (and God forbid, but I would if I had to), I want the "social encounter" to be over NOW. I therefore load nothing but Magsafe when my R9s is "open for business."
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I can't say I know much about MagSafe ammo, although it sounds interesting. At $2.00 per round, I don;t think I want to test enough to make sure it works in my pistol.
I can add, however, that I found Winchester RA9T to have quite a bit less recoil than Speer GDHP at 115 or 124 gr. The RA9T also tests very well in lab conditions. I ran out and have more on order. If it works well in the R9 after I polish the throat, that will be my carry ammo. Right now I have Silvertips loaded up, which IMHO is a poor choice. However, it's better to have a round that feeds reliably than a round that does not.
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The RA9T is my favorite, too.
The Magsafe seemed worth a try because of the reduced recoil.
Bill
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Of all the discussion on ammo and creative thinking
about everything under the sun except going with the
GD, why has there only been faint reference to RBCD,
which, I believe, is standard pressure but has one hell
of a velocity and attendant recoil?
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The felt recoil of the Magsafe Defender was rather mild, especially when using Steve's abrasive tape on front and back of the handle.
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How does this ammo work with heavy clothing that's worn during winter months?
Why Magsafe vs. Glasser?
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I don't know, rtw.
After the shooting session, I wish some boards had been taken along just to see what they looked like after being shot.
The literature talks like a .380 will behave like a .45 Auto.
It bothered me a little, because the backside of package said they were loaded to +P levels, but the 9mm Defender version apparently is just a standard load.
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Glasser was designed to create a large, but shallow, shot cloud.
Magsafe works great against heavy clothing.
The Magsafe Defender series is standard pressure.
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George,
I was glad to hear that the Magsafe Defender is standard pressure.
Thanks for the information.
I liked the feel of it, and intend to carry it exclusively.
Bill
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Being an ex NYPD living in Florida, I have carried magasafe in my pony pocketlite, seecamp 32, P9 compact, keltec 32, and the R9, and haver never had a problem with this ammo......For the R9 I contacted Tony at "magsafe" and he advised me to use the mini glock round in the R9 and the recoil is less then their "defender" rounds. I have had no problems, but,,,,,,,,,Lately with all the problems getting posted with the R9's I am thinking of switching to my Pony Pocketlite when it gets shipped back from a complete meltdown and customizing, from " showgun" in South Florida, pictures will follow when I get it back. Never like to worry about the gun I am carrying!!!! Geminidan
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Dan,
Thanks for that extra information about Magsafe. Next purchase I'll switch over to the mini glock round, and compare the recoil.
Bill
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Recoil considerations aside, my gunsmith says magsafe
is ineffective against heavy leather clothing and will
not penetrate a windshield. I use cor-bon powerball in
my Glock 19. I think the two cheapest places to buy
magsafe are Able Ammo and Cheaper than dirt. It seems
we eventually get back to the Gold Dot for the pup.
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Leather will not stop Magsafe Defender rounds. Back in 1990-92, I shot all kinds of stuff with in to see if it does penetrate. It not only goes through leather jackets, but doors, sheet metal, shoes, you name it.
Glass, I don't know. But in my life I have had a gun pulled on me 4 different time. In each case the range was under 3 feet.