The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Doug-2 on May 14, 2010, 10:22:55 PM
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I've had my R9 for a few weeks now and have put 4 boxes of Gold Dots (115 Grain) thru it without a hitch.
Needless to say I was excited when I came upon 5 boxes of Silvertips yesterday that just arrived at my dealer.
Well today I went to the range and had a problem. The first two mags ( 14 rounds with 1 chambered were flawless). Mag # 3 had two rounds that did not fire on the first pull and Mag #4 had three rounds that required two pulls on one and three pulls on two of the rounds before firing. No problem with the feeds but 5 of the last 14 rounds required two and three trigger pulls before firing.
Can it be the new Silvertips or do I have problems with hammer and firing pin mechanism ? Anyone have this happen before ?
Doug
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Doug,
Welcome and I would suggest going back to the GDs. This is unusual on Silvertips but after having a similar issue with Critical Defense ammo I don't trust any of them anymore. It sounds like hard primers to me but you may be able to isolate that issue with different ammo.
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You might want to read through this old thread and see if your grip screws might be loose. This guy was having the same problem as you describe (with silvertips).
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1237069457;start=
Not sure if this is your problem, it's just some place to start.
David
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Good information there, David. Such a simple thing can cause such a big problem.
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I have always had a great respect for Silvertip ammunition. (I do understand in the scheme of things it is an old design)but when the Seecamp company had all sorts of issues with Winchester, I turned to all Gold Dots. I do have some older 9mm and .380 in Silvertips I use.I trust those.
Doug, I'd like to thing this is a case of lousy ammunition.
Go back to Gold Dots, check the function of the R9 with them. If you have zero issues as you had in the past, stick with the GD's. Use up the ST's for practice. I'll buy a box from you and try them out in my R9, I'd like to see the results.
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chamleon. Good idea. I sure hope it's not the new production of Winchester Silvertips. A lot of us are buying more of this, knowing how it did a year ago. I already have some of the new and will have to give it a try.
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Doug Welcome.
If you haven't already, check the firing pin hole to be sure nothing is in there that shouldn't be. Two mags flawless and then big problems would seem to indicate that something happened that impaired function.
Good Luck,
Rick
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Doug. Rick makes a good point. Take a can of compressed air and blow out the firing pin hole really good. You've problably already done this but if not, give it a try.
I'm sure you've also already cleaned the R9's internals already too, but if not, be sure to do so. Sorry for stating such simple things, but the tight tolerances of the R9 require it to be clean. Just some thoughts.
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Doug, I doubt it is the pistol, but you can stick a pencil or a wood dowel down the barrel, EMPTY GUN of course, and pull the trigger to test the function of the firing pin,the dowel should clear the barrel.
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I just went to check my 9mm STs that showed up today, and they don't have a lot number that I could find. I dug out my other STs, in .45 acp, .45 lc and some .25 acp that I got for a Seecamp. All of these were new in the last year or so. Not one of the boxes had a lot #. I don't remember if the older ones had numbers or not. If anyone has any old ones would you please check them over. I would appreciate it. Gene
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On a not too recent box of STs I see some numbers on the inside side flap of the box but it doesn't say lot number. That is the only id on the box.
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I see the same thing on a box of 9mm Silvertips just received from RR Arms. A stamped number is on the inside flap, 24DD62. On a box of .380 Silvertips, on the inside flap is the number 0298F92. Seems like that must be the lot no.
Just checked a year old box and it's the same way. Number is stamped on the inside flap.
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I see the same thing on a box of 9mm Silvertips just received from RR Arms. A stamped number is on the inside flap, 24DD62. On a box of .380 Silvertips, on the inside flap is the number 0298F92. Seems like that must be the lot no.
Just checked a year old box and it's the same way. Number is stamped on the inside flap.
I kust checked my 5 boxes of Silvertips that had the potential problem per my post. There is a stamped # on the flap of all boxes that is close to yours - 24DD72 (same on all boxes). That must be a lot #.
I want to thank everyone for their posts. They have been vey helpful. I've been busy since my problem range report and am going to clean the gun now and will post any findings I might have.
Doug
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Update:
Well I was finally able to clean the gun and shoot again today. Still having problems.
Gun cleaned up well and firing pin area appeared clear with no shaving anywhere. One thing I noticed was a very small chip on the top corner of the frame back by the hammer but in front of it.
Today I only fired two clips, one with Gold Dots and one with Silvertips. Both clips had two FTF or four FTF out of 12 rounds. I examined the FTF cartridges and all four had very light hits, barely noticeable.
When I got home I checked the grip screws (I have never checked them before) and all were very tight except for the top front one by the serial #. It was definitely a bit loose.
I'm in a bit of a quandry. I need to shoot again now that I've tightned the one grip screw. I can't imagine that is the problem nor do I think the small frame chip is either. I'll shoot again and then I think it's a call to my friends at Rohrbaugh.
Doug
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Following your post, you can read mine about GDs,
Mike
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Here is Mike's thread on GD's.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1273961531
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Doug, I know you have high hopes of the grip screw being the issue here, but I think that a loose grip screw would cause a more catastrophic problem. A loose grip screw would allow the trigger bar to become loose and not correctly work the hammer, or rather not work the hammer at all. So long as the hammer is moving rearward and falling after your trigger pull there would be adequate force to strike the primer. I don't believe your problem is mechanical, not with the pistol anyway.
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Doug. We'll be following your next range session and hope your quandry comes to an end.
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Doug, I know you have high hopes of the grip screw being the issue here, but I think that a loose grip screw would cause a more catastrophic problem. A loose grip screw would allow the trigger bar to become loose and not correctly work the hammer, or rather not work the hammer at all. So long as the hammer is moving rearward and falling after your trigger pull there would be adequate force to strike the primer. [glb]I don't believe your problem is mechanical, not with the pistol anyway.[/[/glb]quote]
The hammer functions well and always has even when dry firing with snap caps. I stopped at two clips yesterday because there was no point going further. Both Gold Dots and Silvertips each had very light primer hits. Not sure I understand your comment on problem not being mechanical ?
Doug
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I would also think that loose grip screw was not the issue, I can't imagine it working in an intermittent fashion. The trigger bar would either be engaged or not. Have you removed the right grip panel and checked the spring and trigger bar attachment ?
John
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I don't know if the grip screw is the problem; I sure hope it is. I can't imagine both Silvertips and Gold Dots having light primer strikes and it be an ammo problem.
ItsOnlyMoney suggested this thread at the beginning of this one: See nonseven's post 6th from the bottom of page. He sent his R9 back to the factory, got it back with the conclusion being, loose grips screws. He had the same problem with light primer strikes with Silvertips and Gold Dots, but his fired, except one Factory did replace magazine springs as well.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1237069457;start=15
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If I were in your shoes, I'd call Rohrbaugh and see if you can send it back and have them take a look at your R9. In my opinion, you shouldn't be having problems with both GD and silvertips.
David
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I'd want to know, first, if that grip screw helped anything after tighting. If not, off to Rohrbaugh.
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Agree with KJ. This is very unusual but if there is anything similar to hard primers small pistols with a light strike tendency can contribute to the issue. This could be a combination of factors including but not limited to the hammer spring.
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I agree with the last few posts on the one loose grip screw I found. I will be very surprised if that fixes the light primer hits on both GD's and Silvers. In any event I'm off to the range tomorrow and will report in on my findings. Just for the record my problems with GD's last time out are from a box with same lot # as the first 4 boxes I shot (80 rounds) without a hitch. And then the problems began which generated this thread. Again I appreciate all the input.
Doug
PS - no feed problems so far
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Range Report:
Just got back from the range after tightening the one loose grip screw, which in fact was only abut a quarter to half turn.
In any event I only shot one clip of Gold Dots and had 4 lite primer hits and 3 actual rounds that fired.
I called Maria at Rohrbaugh, we had a very good conversation and she agreed the gun should come back to see what is going on.
My first Rohrbaugh. I was extremly pleased with the start, I'm anxious to see what's going on. I've been thru a lot of guns. I'm a stickler for reliability. I really like this gun and don't want to give up on it yet.
Doug
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It will be interesting to see what the culprit is. Sorry you're having that trouble, for sure.
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As was earlier suggested it just may be some issue with contamination in the firing pin recess; you did the right thing.
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It looks like it would be fairly easy to disassemble the firing pin assembly to check and clean. Wondering if anybody has done this, and what problems might arise from trying it.
Rick
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It looks like it would be fairly easy to disassemble the firing pin assembly to check and clean. Wondering if anybody has done this, and what problems might arise from trying it.
Rick
Interesting thought. I did not want to disassemble as the gun was firing intermittently and I'm not sure what I would be looking for. Maria at Rohrbaugh agreed and thought my problem was a bit different than most issues which occur with these guns. Returned gun yesterday for service, will update when I hear something.
Doug
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I kust checked my 5 boxes of Silvertips that had the potential problem per my post. There is a stamped # on the flap of all boxes that is close to yours - 24DD72 (same on all boxes). That must be a lot #.
I want to thank everyone for their posts. They have been vey helpful. I've been busy since my problem range report and am going to clean the gun now and will post any findings I might have.
Doug
Well I just received 4 boxes of Silvertips from Cabela's that have been on order since late Feb. I noticed the lot # is 24DD72 which is the same as the five boxes I purchased in mid May. I certainly hope I do not have an ammo problem because I now own 9 boxes of Silvertips with the same lot #.
PS - Rohrbaugh confirmed last week they have my gun and are going over it top to bottom. Hopefully I will hear soon.
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I received the same lot no. as you did from Cabela's.
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I certainly hope that it isn't an ammo problem. I just checked my ammo stash and I have nineteen boxes of lot #24dd72!! I bought twenty boxes and fired one box with no problems at all. Something that bothers me a little bit, I bought the twenty boxes from three different websites (R&R arms,Sportsman Outdoor Superstore and Cabela's) and they all had that same number. Silly question,, I guess, but are we really sure that this IS a lot number? Gene
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All this talk of possible problems with new Silvertips had me worried since I just bought 5 boxes from SOS.
Happy to report I wasted most of one box and they all went bang on the first pull. :D
And this is on a gun that won't fire HCDs.
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Now that is good news, at least to me. Sorry you had those problems with Critical Defense, and glad the Silvertips are working.
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UPDATE !
Well after 2 1/2 weeks I got a message from UPS yesterday that a package from Rohrbaugh requiring my siginature was scheduled for delivery - it came last night.
Just as interesting was that Karl Rohrbaugh himself called me yesterday afternoon to discuss the gun. What a surprise. We spoke for about 1/2 an hour on many topics and I found him very easy to talk to and very professional.
In a nutshell he advised me they replaced the hammer and sear bar. He advised (and I'm not sure I got this right) that the hammer lock lug had a bit of rounding and the new hammer should provide a bit more travel. Not sure why the sear bar was replaced.
Karl also asked if I slow fired the gun to get best target results. He advised it is best to pull the trigger with a precise "sweep" motion for best hammer travel.
Today I went to the range and fired 53 rounds: 47 Silvertips and 6 saved Gold Dots with lite primer hits from earlier problem. They all went bang.
I hope this is the sign of a permanent fix. I'm happy today but for me I need to have a least 200 good rounds thru it. A good start today.
I will keep you all posted and appreciate your thoughts.
Doug
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Doug. Thanks for the update and good news on the range session. I think you'll now be pleased with future outings as well.
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Thanks, Doug; this sounds like a full frontal assault on the light hammer strike allegations that are incompatible with some ammo. It sounds like yours will now fire all ammo with no light hammer strike issues. It would be interesting to know if the new hammer and sear bar are "original issue."
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Well Doug, at least there was a drastic improvement from the first range sessions.I'd have to say that the firing of those rounds that didn't go bang the first time is almost proof enough that your problem was addressed and fixed.
Why or how it could have left the factory like that we'll never know, that's what field testing and a repair warranty is for.
Personally I think that a pistol that goes back to the factory for a problem and gets special attention and fine tuning is better than once just off the production line.
There is no doubt in my mind Doug, you have a keeper.
Thanks for hanging in there and the wrap up report.
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After sending mine back I agree with you on the tweaking improvement issue. Even though it is now a bastardized Farmingdale frame and Deer Park slide it is a very dependable and reliable self defense weapon. That is where we came in on this movie, I think.
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I have mixed feelings on the bastardized Farmindale/Deer Park.
Yeah, it isn't an original Farmingdale, but still a Rohrbaugh, and there may or may not be any collector value, but what I do like is that you are satisfied that your R9 is now reliable.That to me is worth more than any collector value it would have, but that's me, I want a shooter/carry piece.
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I agree with you.
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chameleon and tracker. I'm with you both on the shooter aspect of the early Rohrbaugh. Wouldn't be any use to have a Farmingdale that couldn't shoot. I'm still looking for that early, early one, but wonder about that problem (the slide needing replacing) if I find one.
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There were only a few in the 500-700 s/n range, so I wouldn't be too concerned about it if you want one. That was some bad bar stock as I recall.
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Thanks, now just to find one; early, early.
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Doug,
Glad everything worked out as planned. I know it was a pain to go to the trouble of sending it back, but I believe it was the best thing to do. The turn around time was also great. Thanks for keeping us updated.
David