The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: yankee2500 on November 14, 2010, 04:24:27 PM
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I found this post by our own R9SCarry on another forum and thought it may be of interest to some.
R9S Range and Ammo Comparison Report - (bit long but I hope usefully comprehensive.)
Well ... managed to go early to a club meeting this evening and spend hour and a half on range to check out the lil' puppy. Took F-1 Chrony and printer ..... and set up target at approx 7 paces .. 21'. Used bench with sandbags, Chrony was approx 18" in front (didn't like the muzzle blast!! ). If anyone hasn't seen the pic of the R9S ... it's in this post.
I fired a string of 5 shots of each of eight ammo varieties I had on hand .... all rested and at a slow pace, taking a print-out for each set .... using the printer then to give me other stat's values (see lower down this post). The first pic below is the major part of a sheet of letter paper with all shots on .. so variations due to ammo types, plus as you can see, the overall trend is for the gun to shoot a bit low and left. The paper is rather thin and so quite a few areas have torn excessively . It still tho gives a feel for where the shots went on average.
Next, standing shooting (used White Box) ... again from the 21' distance and at a moderate pace. Not true rapid, more deliberate but fast. Two rounds connected nicely in center and others spread out .... and I was aiming off to higher right, following the earlier results. Still, for the distance with such a small gun ... OK by me. And I'm no Jerry Mikulik (spl?)!!
Then moved forward to 15' distance ... and this time shot what I'd call medium rapid .. all a tad low but again, I wasn't complaining! Back to letter paper again.
And finally ... from the 7' distance ..... and this time fired at fastest possible ... barely any pretence at attempting aim recovery ... this was go,go,go time!! I was pleased with the three on the circle and the other two were not totally useless
So .. verdict so far in the test? Pretty damn pleased!! I will admit, like perhaps any of the real small guns, this requires some ''knack'' to get the grip right. Limp wristing is a total no-no! I guess I fired off about 70 rounds all told ... and my strong hand began to notice discomfort slightly - in area at base of thumb and, first section of ring finger. In fairness it was hot and humid and my sweat made for softer skin I think. Anyways .. heck ... this gun is not about shooting hundreds of rounds of bullseye ... it's a carry piece!
Recoil is, what? Pretty stout shall we say .... but what would you expect from a gun weighing a mere 12.8 oz unloaded and shooting a high pressure round.
Perhaps the most remarkable thing I was aware of throughout this test session was - the amazingly sweet double action pull. Sure, it's quite long - has to be .. but man is it ever silky (the trigger guard gives enough space for the finger too, something I do not like too much with the KelTec trigger guard which is not high enough for me), and - hard to believe it'll hit pin hard enough with so little effort to pull thru. Being D/A only ..... of course, racking the slide to load chamber does not leave a cocked hammer. There is no safety per se but the D/A is in itself well adequate to provide a safety feature. Also, the extractor acts as a loaded chamber indicator ... being flush with slide when a round is chambered .. easy to feel by touch as well as visual inspection.
The ammo results I'll now give you, reflect on its 2.9" barrel . It is locking breech and right hand twist. You may find some of this of interest both from the POV of the particular gun but also actual ammo comparisons in this cal. No FTF's at all.
Ammo type ........ UMC 115 grn FMJ
Shot # 1 - 1028.73 fps
Shot # 2 - 981.34 fps
Shot # 3 - 1016.20 fps
Shot # 4 - 998.76 fps
Shot # 5 - 601.49 fps (yikes!!)
Low vel = 601.49
Hi vel = 1028.73
Average vel = 925.30
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 427.24 (another yikes!)
Standard Deviation = 181.88
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 218 ft lbs
(I have reaffirmed my view that this ammo is near total crap ... that last shot gave me an FTE - hardly surpising perhaps. Dirtiest stuff out there. No more for me Mr Rem thank you).
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NOTE!! .. First time using this printer and forgot to reset so all ammo shot was as one string! Duh! Never mind .. I am adding most info for remaining ammo types - just not bothering yet to work out Standard Deviation.
Ammo type ........ Winchester White Box 115 grain FMJ
Shot # 1 - 1036.48 fps
Shot # 2 - 1025.41 fps
Shot # 3 - 1037.72 fps
Shot # 4 - 1047.52 fps
Shot # 5 - 1038.97 fps
Low vel = 1025.41
Hi vel = 1037.72
Average vel = 1037.22
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 12.31 (good I reckon!)
Standard Deviation = (too lazy to calc!)
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 275 ft lbs
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Ammo type ........ Igman (Bosnian mfr) ... 124 grain FMJ
Shot # 1 - 974.55 fps
Shot # 2 - 1002.07 fps
Shot # 3 - 960.32 fps
Shot # 4 - 1035.15 fps
Shot # 5 - 1015.18 fps
Low vel = 960.32
Hi vel = 1035.15
Average vel = 997.2 nom
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 74.83
Standard Deviation = (too lazy to calc!)
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 274 ft lbs
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Continued - Wouldn't let me put it all in one post!!
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The Rest.
Ammo type ........ Fed HydraShok 147 grain JHP
Shot # 1 - 799.39 fps
Shot # 2 - 823.43 fps
Shot # 3 - 824.55 fps
Shot # 4 - 823.88 fps
Shot # 5 - 831.98 fps
Low vel = 799.39
Hi vel = 824.55
Average vel = 820.6 nom
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 25.16
Standard Deviation = (too lazy to calc!)
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 220 ft lbs
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Ammo type ........ Fed HydraShok 135 grain JHP
Shot # 1 - 891.62 fps
Shot # 2 - 913.91 fps
Shot # 3 - 915.77 fps
Shot # 4 - 919.60 fps
Shot # 5 - 893.79 fps
Low vel = 891.62
Hi vel = 919.60
Average vel = 906.6 nom
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 27.98
Standard Deviation = (too lazy to calc!)
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 246 ft lbs
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Ammo type ........ Remington Golden Saber 124 grain JHP
Shot # 1 - 1002.15 fps
Shot # 2 - 1002.73 fps
Shot # 3 - 994.16 fps
Shot # 4 - 985.02 fps
Shot # 5 - 980.79 fps
Low vel = 980.79
Hi vel = 1002.73
Average vel = 992.8 nom
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 21.94
Standard Deviation = (too lazy to calc!)
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 271.5 ft lbs
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Ammo type ........ Federal American Eagle, 124 grain FMJ
Shot # 1 - 902.79 fps
Shot # 2 - 912.18 fps
Shot # 3 - 762.47 fps (not so good!)
Shot # 4 - 926.00 fps
Shot # 5 - 921.63 fps
Low vel = 762.47
Hi vel = 926.00
Average vel = 885 nom
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 163.53
Standard Deviation = (too lazy to calc!)
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 216 ft lbs
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Ammo type ........ ''A-Merc'', 115 grain FMJ (first time I've tried it! ... be the last too!)
Shot # 1 - 373.04 fps
Shot # 2 - 372.86 fps
Shot # 3 - 371.13 fps
Shot # 4 - 355.23 fps
Shot # 5 - 353.32 fps
Low vel = 353.32
Hi vel = 373.04
Average vel = 365 nom
Hi-Lo extreme spread = 19.72
Standard Deviation = (too lazy to calc!)
Muzzle energy (based on average vel) = 32 ft lbs !!!!!!!!!!!!! What?? Sheesh!
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Well!!!! I'll leave you to make up your own minds re some of the ammo!
That last ''A-Merc'' ... heck, not sure who makes it but .. wierd thing was it didn't feel that weak. Mind you - I should post some bullet pics. They are TERRIBLE quality!! Malformed (creases in jackets) .. horrible things. I can't believe this is being sold .. and it is no cheaper than White Box. Amazed too that it cycled the gun ... that too is hard to believe.! Wonder why they were not all FTE's to be honest!- - maybe a very slow powder?
The White Box figures quite impressed me .... that ain't bad for budget ammo - at all. The UMC .. well, hardly need say more!. The one round really screwed up the average of course! It is so dirty too .. and was responsible for my only FTE.
The ''Igman'' - Bosnian stuff ... it was cheap ... and I guess not too bad really. Good enough for plinking.
Fed American Eagle is not bad but here one round screwed the figures. Still, not bad for plinking. At least it burns clean!
The lighter HydraShok had the better energy figures but both weights were pretty consistent, tho energy a tad low.
The Rem Golden Saber seems to get the first prize for me ... good figures altogether .. and the energy is good. Good design bullet too IMO.
So - there we have it .. a selection of ammo .. some good some garbage! All digested admirably by this sweet mini pistol. I am again amazed by the precision of its engineering .. and again reiterate .. man, is that D/A ever sweet . You'd have to feel that to believe.
Sorry this is so long but ... wanted to try and make it useful and informative ... as much as anything to help those interested in this piece - for whom any info can be helpful. Any aspects I have forgotten to comment on ... do ask and I'll try and add later. This has taken a while to put together!
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Chris - P95
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
Rohrbaugh interest/ownership? - Rohrbaugh Forum Rohrbaugh R9 FAQ Site
John
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R9SCarry definitely has put out some good data. Thanks, John.
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Just so ya'll will know that Amerc crap he was talkning about comes from The Sportsmans Guide catalog. It is cheap and tempting, but junk. Also if you reload, the primers in the brass are swaged in extra tight and you will bend your decapping pins trying to get them out.
Just throw throw the Amerc brass away.
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Thanks for this report. Every time I see WWB chrono'ed it impresses me. For a reportedly "cheap and weak" ammo it seems always to do quite well...
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One that hasn't been mentioned here is the WWB Personal Defense Ammo which is essentially the same 115 gr. with hollow point. It runs about $3 more per box than FMJ. Although I have a few boxes of it I haven't carried it in the R9. Gold Dot and Silvertip seem to rule the roost, so far.
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Yep! I have a box of that also; just got it for backup; called Winchester Personal Protection. Never carrried it or used it either.
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This data is several years old, maybe before they started making the Personal Protection ammo.
John
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Could be. Still, very good data.
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Has anyone shot the Cor-Bon DPX 95 gr. 9mm from the Rohrbaugh? Results or opinion? I understand from Cor-Bon that this cartridge (NOT +P) was specifically designed for pistols with 3" barrels. Thanks :)
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cartero391,
First let me welcome you to the group. WELCOME !!
You may want to read this post about Corbon ammo, it's a few pages but if you are thinking about using Corbon probably worth the read. I would say stay away from the 80gr stuff for sure.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1232132269;start=0
John
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Has anyone shot the Cor-Bon DPX 95 gr. 9mm from the Rohrbaugh? Results or opinion? I understand from Cor-Bon that this cartridge (NOT +P) was specifically designed for pistols with 3" barrels. Thanks :)
cartero391. Welcome to the Forum. I know of two Forum members that have bought the Cor-Bon DPX 95 gr. and one has commented in the thread below:
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1276131386;start=27#27
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I the latest data I have seen the fastest 9mm out there is "Buffalo Bore " Hard to find but great stuff.
Chief
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Does Buffalo Bore make .9mm in standard pressure or just +P and +P+?
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Does Buffalo Bore make .9mm in standard pressure or just +P and +P+?
Apparently all of their 9mm Luger offerings are +P or +P+:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=1
I'm not sure I would want to load +P+ ammo in any handgun that I truly valued. Maybe a Glock 17, but I'm just sayin' . . . . :-/
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+P+ sounds like prosecutor material to me.
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+P+ sounds like prosecutor material to me.
Yes, I can see that happening at the hands of some politically ambitious "anti-gun" prosecutor -- even in a "shall issue" state.
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The common miss conception with the +P designation is the bullet goes faster. This is not always true, +P only means there is an increase in pressure over the SAAMI standard.
+P ammunition and velocity
In general, the purpose of a +P cartridge is to get a higher velocity for a given bullet weight than a standard pressure cartridge. However, the pressure rating used to determine if a round is +P is the peak pressure, which is not an accurate indication of the velocity, since it is the area under the pressure curve that determines the total energy imparted to the bullet. A large number of factors can impact the peak pressure of a load, such as:
Bullet weight
Bullet seating depth, which is a factor of
Bullet material
Bullet shape
Bullet diameter
Test barrel diameter
Test barrel chamber shape
Bullet hardness
Friction in bore
Crimp strength
Smokeless powder burn rate
Primer strength
Cartridge case volume
Because of these factors, it is possible to have two loads where each is propelling the same bullet weight at the same velocity, but one is a standard pressure load and one is a +P load. Even in the same firearm, with the same components, cartridges with low powder capacity and high operating pressures, such as the .40 S&W, have been shown to have a significant increase in pressure with very minor differences in bullet seating depth. One example in .40 S&W demonstrated a 20% pressure increase with a 0.05 inch (1.2 mm) change in seating depth.
John
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The +P designation is inextricable with higher pressure and the implicitly assumed higher velocity may or not be valid.
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Can't argue with that. :D
John
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Good answer, John! ;D
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Indeed, and a supersonic +P+ Happy Holidays to all of the fine folks on this forum.
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Indeed, and a supersonic +P+ Happy Holidays to all of the fine folks on this forum.
tracker and to you as well! :D
(http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss197/kjtrains/Countrysnow_animated.gif)