The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Alphonso on December 18, 2010, 01:44:49 AM
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I've been carrying my R9 for close to three years. I know many of you have had yours for longer. Still, almost no one I speak to knows about the Rohrbaugh. Friends, shooters, and gun shop clerks mostly draw a blank when I mention it.
My question: Is the Rohrbaugh "rare" simply because of its (sort of) high price, or for some other reason?
I'd think that a revolutionary pistol with unparalleled specs and attributes would have swept the CCW world by now.
Your thoughts?
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My thought is, there have been only a little over 5,000 made since day one of producton, and advertising is not that extensive, so not everyone hears about the Rohrbaugh.
Nearly two years ago, my home town dealer didn't know what a Rohrbaugh was either. He does now.
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I think it's a combination of things, availability (only five thousand 9mm made in six years) marketing and price. Pick up any gun magazine and you see ads for Ruger, S&W, Baretta and every other mass produced guns (and some custom makes). I can't remember ever seeing an ad for the Rohrbaugh.
I think if Rohrbaugh did an advertising campaign they would not be able to keep up with the demand.
John
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I do think advertising is a key player and you're right about keeping up with demand. Production would definitely have to increase as well. Rohrbaugh, at this point, may be where they want to be or not; that I can't answer.
We all want more, then there's a limit to what can be done.
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I had a conversation with Maria a few weeks ago and what she said surprised me a little. She indicated that the frames are supplied by a vendor and not made in house. :o
John
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That is a little surprising. May be more economical that way for Rohrbaugh.
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Frame and slides are made by a vendor. I am sure several other parts are outsourced too.
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I've been carrying my R9 for close to three years. I know many of you have had yours for longer. Still, almost no one I speak to knows about the Rohrbaugh. Friends, shooters, and gun shop clerks mostly draw a blank when I mention it.
My question: Is the Rohrbaugh "rare" simply because of its (sort of) high price, or for some other reason?
I'd think that a revolutionary pistol with unparalleled specs and attributes would have swept the CCW world by now.
Your thoughts?
My thoughts, as requested.
Many of those who claim to be "experts" in matters relating to firearms and ammunition ballistics are actually quite limited in their knowledge of the subjects and make no real effort to engage in what might be called "continuing education." You can see them loafing around the counters of many gun stores -- posturing, gesturing, swapping lies, and generally "blowing smoke" at anyone who will listen. If such a person proves to have no knowledge of the Rohrbaugh line of pistols it may be assumed that he has made little or no effort to stay abreast of firearms development.
And those are my thoughts on the matter, as requested.
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You can couch it advertising, but, it is related to awareness. I've been around such things all my life and I only heard about them by accident. It wasn't an accident that I bought one.
Dealer programs, advertising, press (mags), internet - all have to be coordinated to get a slice of the public's limited time.
They may be quite happy with their current level of sales and not WANT to grow!
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Is the outsourcing a fairly new development, or has it been that way all along?
Rick
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Rick,
At one time all aspects of the R9 were done in house from my understanding (with the exception of exterior finish and mags).
Here is a link to some good information and a factory tour that shows some of the slides being made.
http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/rohrbaugh/basefile/rofact-01.htm
John
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that vender maybe next door in the same bldg., former employees Tom
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Frame and slides are made by a vendor. I am sure several other parts are outsourced too.
I've now read at different times, here on the forum, that the frames, slides, barrels, magazines, grips, springs and screws are outsourced and NOT made at the Rohrbaugh factory. If this is true, it sounds like Rohrbaugh is now more of a assembly plant than a factory. I still LOVE the R9 for what it is but it makes the early guns, that were "made" at the Farmingdale factory, by the Rohbaugh guys even more special. (to me anyway)
I don't know why I find it disappointing that the parts are no longer made by Rohrbaugh but I do.
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Yep. Just to clarify, by vendor I meant NOT at the Rohrbaugh factory :)
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It seems to me that product quality and customer service is the key to success. Some firearms manufacturers have gone downhill in both departments but Rohrbaugh still excels in a superb product, perhaps better than the past. As long as they focus on Q/A the R9 should have a bright future.
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I do like the Farmingdale and Corey has it right; even more special! :)
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Perceived beauty and collectibility aside I would like to see the warranty return percentages from 2004-2006 compared to 2007-2010. Even though it is a well kept secret my guess is that warranty returns have diminished in recent years.
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That is true, I'm sure. As Rohrbaugh has grown in experience so has other aspects of their business.
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I find it a little disappointing also.
I like the Farmies but I am a shooter and user and not a collector. At this point in time I would rather have a custom R9.
Although I would buy a Farmingdale model if one came by at a real good price, I no longer want one as bad as I did at one time. I like the Rohrbaughs for what they are and not who machined the parts, they may even be made by someone with more machining expertise than the Rohrbaugh plant has.
John
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My thought is, I like them both; the Farmingdale, because of the rarity, and the new ones for what they are. Can't wait for what's coming at the 2011 Shot Show. :)
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I recently spoke with Maria at Rohrbaugh and she told me that she is now living in Oregon and that she tele-commutes with the customers in Long Island. Isn't technology wonderful.
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I recently spoke with Maria at Rohrbaugh and she told me that she is now living in Oregon and that she tele-commutes with the customers in Long Island. Isn't technology wonderful.
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/shocked.gif) (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/shocked.gif) (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/shocked.gif)
John
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Here is a link to some good information and a factory tour that shows some of the slides being made.
http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/rohrbaugh/basefile/rofact-01.htm
John
I had seen that tour also and was surprised to learn in this thread that most / all of the work is now farmed out to a "vendor".
While that makes the Farmingdale pistols more collectible, outsourcing isn't necessarily a bad thing. It seems to me that the core competency of Rohrbaugh isn't necessarily running CNC machining centers but rather the design of and refinements to the pistol and the support of the customers. Outsourcing allows the company to focus on those areas and very possibly get better more consistent parts.
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So now we have Farm in Dales and Farm Out Dales...
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Actually Farm in Dales and Farm out Deer Parks, but yours sounds better. ;D
I hope with all the outsourcing the extra time and resources are going to R&D for the R45. ;D ;D
John
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JR. Very good point.
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Actually Farm in Dales and Farm out Deer Parks, but yours sounds better. ;D
I hope with all the outsourcing the extra time and resources are going to R&D for the R45. ;D ;D
John
Ah yes. The R45! :D
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I have it on good authority from reliable sources that the components listed below are the only processes which are outsourced by the factory in the manufacture of Rohrbaugh pistols, such being done because they do not have the equipment to do it themselves and it would be too much, at this time, to gear up to do it “in house”. (By the way, this is a common practice within the firearms industry, so Rohrbaugh is not the only manufacturing company doing such things via an occasional outside vendor.)
The items which they send out for different treatments are as follows:
Anodizing of the frames;
Heat treating of the slides, barrels, and some small detail components;
Grip screws;
Magazines; (Checkmate)
Grips; (Neil Hogue)
All Springs (Walt Wolff);
Parts of recoil sub-assembly (such as the end cap, rod and sleeve)
Otherwise, all Rohrbaugh pistols are manufactured and deburred by hand, then hand finished and assembled entirely in-house using CNC machining from solid hand-selected billets of aluminum and stainless steel. They are then hand fitted and tested by one of the Rohrbaugh brothers before leaving the factory. Anything that has been printed on the Internet to indicate anything different than what has been described here is totally false and possibly malicious towards Rohrbaugh Firearms Corp.
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Rohrbaugh has everything under control in the making of that great pistol we all enjoy!
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Anything that has been printed on the Internet to indicate anything different than what has been described here is totally false and possibly malicious towards Rohrbaugh Firearms Corp.
Richard if that is the case, good. It makes little if any difference to most the location to where any of the parts are made but it does make me wonder why Maria, someone who would know, would tell John otherwise as far as the frames go. Also not to long ago a customer that had chatter marks inside his slide was told, by Rohrbaugh, the hold up of getting his slide replaced was Rohrbaugh waiting on there vender to make more slides.
I promise I'm not trying to "stir the pot", I'm just pointing out that it just don't add up. I LOVE the R9!
Slide reference:
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1263594141;start=105
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Our conversation was about frames because I was wondering about getting a damaged or unusable one. She told me that first they would have a lot of ATF paperwork to do in order to account for the frame and that if they had a damaged or unusable one it would be returned to the vender for a credit.
There was no mistake about what she told me.
If she lied I lied. :o
John
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The Rohrbaugh is still the Rohrbaugh no matter who makes what and we all love it, so to speak, so..........!
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I have it on good authority from reliable sources that the components listed below are the only processes which are outsourced by the factory in the manufacture of Rohrbaugh pistols, such being done because they do not have the equipment to do it themselves and it would be too much, at this time, to gear up to do it “in house”. (By the way, this is a common practice within the firearms industry, so Rohrbaugh is not the only manufacturing company doing such things via an occasional outside vendor.)
The items which they send out for different treatments are as follows:
Anodizing of the frames;
Heat treating of the slides, barrels, and some small detail components;
Grip screws;
Magazines; (Checkmate)
Grips; (Neil Hogue)
All Springs (Walt Wolff);
Parts of recoil sub-assembly (such as the end cap, rod and sleeve)
Otherwise, all Rohrbaugh pistols are manufactured and deburred by hand, then hand finished and assembled entirely in-house using CNC machining from solid hand-selected billets of aluminum and stainless steel. They are then hand fitted and tested by one of the Rohrbaugh brothers before leaving the factory. Anything that has been printed on the Internet to indicate anything different than what has been described here is totally false and possibly malicious towards Rohrbaugh Firearms Corp.
When my slide was sent back several months ago, Maria told me the slides were NOT made by them anymore. Not my words... If it means better quality control, I could care less who makes the parts.
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I have been very happy with my pup and don't care who made it, the design, quality and customer service are whats important to me and they have nailed all three.
I don't know why Maria would tell people the parts were made by venders if they were made in house. ???
Until Karl or Eric signs on here and states different I have to go with what I was told by Maria.
John
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I don't care who makes the parts either. It's a Rohrbaugh and I'm happy with it. :)
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Whoa, whoa, whoa!
Sorry I didn't see this before it got to 3 pages.
Richard is absolutely correct. Slides and frames are machined at the factory in Deer Park. They are then sent out to have the various finishes applied. Application of high tech finishes is not economical on a small scale, plus it involves a lot of environmentally sensitive processes, etc.
When Maria says she is waiting on slides from a vendor, she means she is waiting to get the slides Rohrbaugh machined back from the vendor who applied the finish.
I am a bit fuzzy right now and can't recall if I am supposed to know who the vendor is or not...so I won't say.
All is well, and your favorite guns are designed by Rohrbaugh, machined by Rohrbaugh, hand finished by Rohrbaugh, hand assembled by Rohrbaugh, test fired by Rohrbaugh, and cleaned and inspected by Rohrbaugh.
As for why they are so "rare" -- I am not sure that is true. The R-9 has been covered in many magazines, many times. It has been on the cover of several.
My favorite gun store is not very big, but usually has one in stock. Every gun show I go to has one. Most experienced shooters know what a Rohrbaugh is -- even if they can't pronounce it right. ;)
Lets face it -- 5,000 guns is not a lot. How many Glocks have been produced? 750,000? I would guess at least that many and probably far more.
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I guess sometimes 1+1=3 ???
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If the frames are machined there how do they return it to the vender for a credit like she told me ? Just curious.
John
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I (the OP) didn't mean to start a flap.
My question, restated, is why has a pistol that is so superior not caught on in a bigger way?
My question was a compliment to Rohrbaugh, not a criticism...
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It is a boutique weapon, with no criticism intended.
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Alphonso, you didn't start a flap, there are just some inconsistencies in the information and it would be nice to get it cleared up.
John
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I don't think any of the info is inconsistent, there may just be a misunderstanding in what was conveyed.
Just to be sure that the brothers didn't sell the operation to the Chinese in the dark of night, I spoke with Eric today.
Richard's list of outsourced parts and services is 100% correct. Slides and frames are still produced in house on Rohrbaugh's CNC machines -- the same ones I photographed for the factory tour of the Farmingdale location. Slides and frames are sent out to a third party for the heat treat and application of finishes. It doesnt matter if its a Stealth model or not -- all slides are heat treated.
Of course, the slides and frames come back to Rohrbaugh for hand fitting and finishing, then on to final assembly, inspection, test firing, cleaning and packaging.
Maria's comments about slides and frames can relate only to the third party heat treat and finishes. There is no other explanation, and any info to the contrary is somehow being poorly communicated or poorly understood. This is straight from the horse's mouth -- and consistent with everything I have ever seen or been told about the Rohrbaugh operations.
I hope we can put these concerns to rest and get back to the OP's actual question.
Thanks.
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Good enough for me. Might be the water in Oregon. ;D
John
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To refresh my memory I went back and looked at my write up of my visit to the factory back in 2004. It is still in the R-9 FAQ. It was a good refresher on all the steps required to build the R-9!
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Good enough for me. Might be the water in Oregon. ;D
John
;D
Ok-e-doe-key, thats good enough for me too. Thank you Richard and DD for setting us straight.
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Sorry , but I was away and did not log on until today. I am glad that Richard and Duane did dispel the misinformation about outsourcing. But, as an investor/owner, I will guarentee that all machining (quality control input etc )is done in house- frames slides barrel etc. they are only sent out for processes that are not economical to do in house- ie. heat treat , finishes etc. Small parts- springs, magazine screws et al are purchased from experts in their fields. Otherwise, the parts come BACK to the Deer Park for final fit finish assembly test package and shipping.
ANYTHING TO THE OPPOSITE IS NOT TRUE AND SHOULD NOT BE DISSEMINATED.
Any questions, please do not hesistate to contact me
Michael Ward
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Sorry , but I was away and did not log on until today. I am glad that Richard and Duane did dispel the misinformation about outsourcing. But, as an investor/owner, I will guarentee that all machining (quality control input etc )is done in house- frames slides barrel etc. they are only sent out for processes that are not economical to do in house- ie. heat treat , finishes etc. Small parts- springs, magazine screws et al are purchased from experts in their fields. Otherwise, the parts come BACK to the Deer Park for final fit finish assembly test package and shipping.
ANYTHING TO THE OPPOSITE IS NOT TRUE AND SHOULD NOT BE DISSEMINATED.
Any questions, please do not hesistate to contact me
Michael Ward
Dr. Ward. Your's and Duane's input has put this issue to rest. Thanks.
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I have no doubt the information provided by Duane and Michael is true and correct.
The miscommunication to myself and CCW came from Maria. It seems that in the future to eliminate this type of issue there needs to be a little more clarification or a different answer given when referring to were parts are made.
Thanks Duane and Michael for clearing this up.
John
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Last week when I was in the gun shop, I was (fondling) 2 r9s 1 2 tone 1 stealth, when a older man stood next to me and stated 'what is that" I explained what they were and he said he never heard of them. he then pulled a LCP from his shirt pocket and said this was the best weapon on the market today!!!! I was polite and said Thanks for the info,The guy behind the counter looked at him with disgust and ask me if it was ok to help that guy out 1st (get him out of store "pulling out gun in the manor he did". I said OK. that guy wanted extra mag for that gun. When left we both had a good laugh kinda scary knowing some people carry like that (no holster) also not much knolledge of weapons just how inexpensive they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry for the rant !!! BTW I took BOTH
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If he would have said it was the best weapon on the market for under $300 it would have been a more accurate statement. ;D For a small, light, inexpensive 380 the LCP is hard to beat, but not in the same league as a Rohrbaugh.
And congratulations on the pair of pups.
John
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rw. Congrats on that 2nd R9. Hard to resist the 2nd one. I really don't know why; just works that way on some. Enjoy!