The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Mullin on April 26, 2011, 05:54:41 PM

Title: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: Mullin on April 26, 2011, 05:54:41 PM: I'm just back from the range where I ran 25 rounds of American Eagle 124 gr. FMJ and 25 rounds of Fiocchi 124 gr. JHP through my new Stealth. The A.E. went through without a hitch. But after a 10 minute cool down period, the Fiocchi had 1 FTE and 1 FTF. Although the Fiocchi works fine with my Glocks, obviously they aren't the right HD or PD choice for the R9.

I've seen a number of recommendations in this forum for Speer Gold Dot HP, so I browsed various ammo pages and found Gold Dot 115 gr. HP and Gold Dot 124 gr. HP (neither are +P). FWIW, these loads are both $24.95/50 on Ammo To Go. Before ordering one of the other, I thought it would be a good idea if I asked here which should be the most reliable in my R9, the 115 gr. or the 124 gr.?

Thanks in advance . . .
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: MRC on April 26, 2011, 06:27:40 PM: Both seem to work fine in mine. If I were you, I would get some of each and make your own determination of what is best for your pistol.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: Z on April 26, 2011, 08:05:53 PM: I agree 100% with MRC. It is whatever runs the best in your PUP.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: kjtrains on April 26, 2011, 08:47:10 PM: I do agree with that rationale as well. :)
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: Mullin on April 26, 2011, 08:58:03 PM: Has anyone had problems with either load?
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: kjtrains on April 26, 2011, 09:19:27 PM: I do remember one Forum member had a problem with the 124 gr. Gold Dots, but he had a problem with Winchester 115 gr. Silvertips as well. Think it was gun related, however, never did hear what the problem was.

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Classifieds;action=display;num=1289124395;start=16#16
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: Z on April 26, 2011, 09:50:06 PM: I have only experienced 115 GD. They have worked 100% reliable in all of my PUPs

I somehow cannot find the time to try different ammo out. I use what works. I also have a local gun shop that always carries it.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: margator on April 27, 2011, 04:01:05 PM: One more vote for the 115's...been flawless!
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: yankee2500 on April 27, 2011, 06:14:44 PM: No problems with 115, 124, or 147gr Gold Dots.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: kjtrains on April 27, 2011, 06:19:12 PM: John. Your Robar treated R9 shoots anything! ;D
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: Lchavezmisc on April 27, 2011, 07:54:18 PM: Used 115 gr Speer gold dots today and they performed flawlessly. I also shot silver tips without issue, but the gold dots just placed better for me.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: Mullin on April 27, 2011, 08:48:58 PM: Quote
which should be the most reliable in my R9, the 115 gr. or the 124 gr.?
I've just ordered 2 boxes of the GD 115 gr. JHP and 2 boxes of the GD 124 gr. JHP. After they arrive, I'll run 25 of each through the R9 and report back here how they perform.

Although the Fiocchi's gave me problems with the R9, they performed fine with my three 9mm Glocks. So I've put big labels on the boxes saying, "For Glocks Only"! ;D

Thanks to everyone for all the tips, but keep posting if you have more information that might be of interest.

- Bill
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: yankee2500 on April 27, 2011, 11:29:41 PM: I think if you loaded stones instead of bullets into your brass the Glock would shoot them. ;D I have shot every imaginable type of ammo through my G-19 in the 20 + years I've had it, probably fired some things I shouldn't have :o but it just keeps on shooting. :D
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: kjtrains on April 27, 2011, 11:32:41 PM: Yep! Mine does the same thing. Eats Remingtons like it was premium ammo. :)
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: RickP on April 28, 2011, 01:27:42 PM: There was a chart posted a couple years ago showing the difference in expansion between 115 and 124gr gold dots fired from the R9. Basically the 115gr expanded perfectly and the 124gr didn't. I have a copy, but with my new service provider have no way to post it. If someone with posting ability will PM me with their email address, I will send them the picture for posting.

Rick
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: ACP on April 28, 2011, 02:25:26 PM: My choice is 147 grain for reasons covered in this forum. I use Federal Hydra Shock and Golden Sabre. Nothing but premium stuff for my Robar R9.

Comments regarding Glock are both humorous and true, in my experience.

Fiocchi, (which I love), is not a good choice for the R9. Admittedly, I have not shot Fiocchi in my R9 because of fear of a hot round.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: Richard S on April 29, 2011, 09:50:35 AM: Quote
There was a chart posted a couple years ago showing the difference in expansion between 115 and 124gr gold dots fired from the R9. Basically the 115gr expanded perfectly and the 124gr didn't. I have a copy, but with my new service provider have no way to post it. If someone with posting ability will PM me with their email address, I will send them the picture for posting.

Rick

Here is the expansion chart Rick sent to me for posting:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/Ballistics-ExpansionChart.jpg)
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: RickP on April 30, 2011, 02:38:43 PM: Thank you Richard. :)

Rick
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: C0untZer0 on May 01, 2011, 02:49:46 AM: There are a lot of really good rounds in 124gr. Winchester +P Bonded expand between .65 and .68 and have decent penetration (12" to 12.6").

Federal's 124gr +P EFMJ expand to about .590 and penetrate between 12" in bare gel.

Of course these aren't usually tested out of a <3" barrel so I'm not exactly sure how they perform out of a Rohrbaugh R-9, but I think the best you can do is try to pick the best performing ammo you can, and see if it feeds reliably in you R-9. The reasoning goes that the best performing rounds out of a 5" will also be the best performing rounds out of a 2.9" barrel.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: Joe_from_NY on May 01, 2011, 02:53:24 AM: Quote
There are a lot of really good rounds in 124gr. Winchester +P Bonded expand between .65 and .68 and have decent penetration (12" to 12.6").

Federal's 124gr +P EFMJ expand to about .590 and penetrate between 12" in bare gel.

Of course these aren't usually tested out of a <3" barrel so I'm not exactly sure how they perform out of a Rohrbaugh R-9, but I think the best you can do is try to pick the best performing ammo you can, and see if it feeds reliably in you R-9. The reasoning goes that the best performing rounds out of a 5" will also be the best performing rounds out of a 2.9" barrel.

We would hope you dont try these two in your R9 since they are +P.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: C0untZer0 on May 01, 2011, 04:46:27 AM: Well here is a larger set of ballistics data, you can discard the +P offerings.

http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php

To me, the 124 std pressure rounds don't look that great but they look better than most of the 115gr ballistics.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: yankee2500 on May 01, 2011, 10:56:05 AM: Here is the 9mm portion of the above referenced chart with the +P & +P+ removed.

[COLOR="Red"]This page offers different views of the FBI terminal ballistic testing data ("gelatin tests"). I started a discussion on The Firing Line, which is pretty interesting.

lbfps is momentum in units pound(mass)-feet-per-second.
ftlbs is energy in units foot-pounts(force).
cu is volume of wound cavity, in cubic inches.

Sorted by..
kinetic energy
momentum
(bare gelatin) penetration depth
(bare gelatin) wound volume
(clothed gelatin) penetration depth
(clothed gelatin) wound volume
Average wound volume for clothed and bare gelatin
Penetration over 30 inches in negatively sanctioned, and penetration over 20 inches is folded down to 20 inches.
Explanation of fields, example

9x19 Win Ranger +P+ |115@1320, 21.7 mv, 444 E|BR 9.6", 0.53", 2.11cu|CL 10.2", 0.65", 3.37cu|avg 2.74, 3.89 re, 0.70
9x19 - caliber
Win Ranger +P+ - the name of the load
115@1320 - bullet mass in grains @ muzzle velocity
21.7 mv - bullet momentum in lb*fps
444 E - muzzle energy in ftlbs
BR - what follows is the data for bare gelatin
9.6" inches of penetration
0.53", final expanded diameter of bullet
2.11 cu, approximation of wound volume. (this does not take into account the expansion profile as a function of depth, but it should be roughly proportionate to actual wound volume)
CL - what follows is the data for clothed gelatin
same fields as the bare gelatin, as defined above
avg 2.74 - Average wound volume, clothed and bare gelatin
3.89 re - Free Recoil Energy, assuming a 1.88 lb pistol
0.70 - Average would volume per unit Free Recoil Energy. This is a measure of "bang for buck", and is discussed in the text below the data table.
Sorted by s_none

9x19 Win Ranger Talon|147@ 864, 18.1 mv, 243 E|BR 13.8", 0.61", 4.03cu|CL 15.2", 0.59", 4.17cu|avg 4.10, 2.72 re, 1.51

9x19 Win Ranger Talon|147@1017, 21.4 mv, 337 E|BR 13.8", 0.66", 4.70cu|CL 15.5", 0.65", 5.14cu|avg 4.92, 3.77 re, 1.31

9x19 3-D |115@1178, 19.4 mv, 354 E|BR 11.6", 0.54", 2.66cu|CL 13.9", 0.48", 2.52cu|avg 2.59, 3.10 re, 0.84

9x19 CCI/Speer GD |115@1259, 20.7 mv, 404 E|BR 12.3", 0.67", 4.35cu|CL 22.1", 0.40", 2.78cu|avg 3.43, 3.54 re, 0.97

9x19 CCI/Speer GD |115@1197, 19.7 mv, 365 E|BR 12.8", 0.67", 4.51cu|CL 22.6", 0.44", 3.44cu|avg 3.78, 3.20 re, 1.18

9x19 Fed Silvertip |115@1091, 17.9 mv, 304 E|BR 10.1", 0.63", 3.13cu|CL 11.8", 0.58", 3.12cu|avg 3.13, 2.66 re, 1.18

9x19 CCI/Speer GD +P |124@1223, 21.7 mv, 411 E|BR 13.4", 0.68", 4.87cu|CL 20.2", 0.53", 4.47cu|avg 4.64, 3.88 re, 1.20

9x19 CCI/Speer GD |124@1116, 19.8 mv, 342 E|BR 11.8", 0.69", 4.41cu|CL 22.0", 0.36", 2.24cu|avg 3.22, 3.23 re, 1.00

9x19 Rem |124@1109, 19.6 mv, 338 E|BR 12.4", 0.60", 3.52cu|CL 13.7", 0.57", 3.50cu|avg 3.51, 3.19 re, 1.10

9x19 PMC/Eldorado SF |124@1118, 19.8 mv, 344 E|BR 10.7", 0.63", 3.32cu|CL 20.1", 0.41", 2.65cu|avg 2.98, 3.24 re, 0.92

9x19 CorBon XTP |124@1123, 19.9 mv, 347 E|BR 13.9", 0.56", 3.44cu|CL 18.3", 0.46", 3.04cu|avg 3.24, 3.27 re, 0.99

9x19 Fed HydraShok |147@ 935, 19.6 mv, 285 E|BR 13.6", 0.60", 3.85cu|CL 16.1", 0.52", 3.41cu|avg 3.63, 3.19 re, 1.14

9x19 Win Black Talon |147@ 946, 19.9 mv, 292 E|BR 14.8", 0.60", 4.20cu|CL 16.4", 0.61", 4.78cu|avg 4.49, 3.26 re, 1.38

9x19 Rem |147@ 987, 20.7 mv, 318 E|BR 18.1", 0.51", 3.71cu|CL 15.9", 0.59", 4.36cu|avg 4.03, 3.55 re, 1.14

9x19 Hornady XTP |147@ 918, 19.3 mv, 275 E|BR 22.1", 0.44", 3.36cu|CL 20.5", 0.46", 3.41cu|avg 3.18, 3.07 re, 1.04

9x19 Fed HydraShok |147@ 995, 20.9 mv, 323 E|BR 21.4", 0.37", 2.30cu|CL 15.6", 0.60", 4.41cu|avg 3.28, 3.61 re, 0.91

9x19 Win Silvertip |147@ 902, 18.9 mv, 265 E|BR 14.6", 0.53", 3.22cu|CL 18.1", 0.47", 3.14cu|avg 3.18, 2.97 re, 1.07

9x19 CCI/Speer GD+P |124@1155, 20.5 mv, 367 E|BR 13.2", 0.62", 3.99cu|CL 16.1", 0.53", 3.55cu|avg 3.77, 3.46 re, 1.09

9x19 CCI/Speer GD |124@1068, 18.9 mv, 314 E|BR 12.6", 0.59", 3.44cu|CL 17.5", 0.51", 3.57cu|avg 3.51, 2.96 re, 1.19

9x19 CCI/Speer GD |147@ 924, 19.4 mv, 278 E|BR 14.8", 0.57", 3.78cu|CL 14.7", 0.55", 3.49cu|avg 3.63, 3.11 re, 1.17

9x19 Win Ranger PG |124@1015, 18.0 mv, 283 E|BR 12.5", 0.65", 4.15cu|CL 14.0", 0.61", 4.09cu|avg 4.12, 2.67 re, 1.54

9x19 Win Ranger T |147@1016, 21.3 mv, 337 E|BR 13.8", 0.66", 4.72cu|CL 15.7", 0.00", 0.00cu|avg 2.36, 3.76 re, 0.63
[/COLOR]
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: kjtrains on May 01, 2011, 02:34:12 PM: To all the above; that's a lot of good info; thanks!
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: ACP on May 01, 2011, 09:36:58 PM: Yankee: Wow. Are you seeking your PhD in ballistics?
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: yankee2500 on May 01, 2011, 09:48:25 PM: I just copy & pasted what C0untZer0 posted the link to. ;D
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: C0untZer0 on May 01, 2011, 11:46:39 PM: To me the wounding ballistics of the 147gr rounds look more impressive. You have penetration to around 14" and recovered diameters of around .60 cal

Here are some ballistics from a 3.4" barrel which is as close as I've seen to the sub 3" in the R-9.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs9.htm

The regular 124gr Gold Dots are only penetrating 12.6" and expanding to 0.59

The 147gr Gold Dots were penetrating to 14.8" with a little less expansion - averaging .57"

The 115gr Gold Dots were pentrating to 12.8" with more expansion - averaging .67"
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: yankee2500 on May 02, 2011, 12:26:06 AM: I don't think there is a significant result difference in 12.6" or 14.8" as that is all the way through the average person on a frontal shot, and certainly deep enough to hit vitals on the biggest bad guy.
I would feel very comfortable with any one of those Gold Dot rounds.
Title: Re: Which is best, Gold Dot HP 115 gr. or 124 gr.?
Post by: C0untZer0 on May 02, 2011, 02:27:25 AM: Well the 14" penetration is kind of a goal that you shoot for in ballistics (pun intended).

The 14" is not necessarily to be taken literally - meaning that anyone really thinks that to stop all BGs you have to put a 14" channel through them.

Rather, the 14" penetration in gel correlates to overall good performance under the widest circumstances. Your round may go into a BGs forearm or bicep... you may need a round that can go through an arm and still penetrate the torso. BG may be a weight lifter with 3" pecs and facing you at a 45 degree angle... you may need to fire through a ski jacket, sweater and cotton shirt, you may need to fire through a leather jacket... the 14" goal is a predictor of overall performance.

But having said that, if someone takes their R-9 to the range and a 147gr round or even a 124gr round makes the R-9 feel flippy to them, or they just don't like the way shooting a particular round feels... then they have to go with what they think is best.

You're better off shooting a 115gr round that you can shoot well than a 147gr round that you can't