The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Joe_from_NY on May 23, 2011, 02:22:00 AM
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Well, my trusty back pocket companion had to take a trip back to the factory. I went to the range last week so I could put a few rounds through my R9 Stealth with the new black magazine I ordered before I carried it. (I wouldn’t trust a new magazine to carry without first running a few through it just to be sure.) My plan for the day was to go through one 50 round box of Gold Dots, and sprinkle in a few WWB’s since they are cheaper, even though a bit dirtier. I loaded the new mag up with 124 grain Gold Dots and mixed WWB and Gold Dots in my original magazine and commenced making some noise. Within a few magazines worth, I experienced a total of three rounds that failed to fire with one pull of the trigger. With two of these rounds, a second trigger pull was required to fire the round. Upon encountering the third round failure to fire, I ejected the live Gold Dot round in order to examine it. It is the one on the right in the following photo (note the primer is barely scratched):
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/3lightnote.jpg)
When I got the first two failures, I thought it was an anomaly, so I just pulled the trigger and they both fired fine on the second pull. I didn’t think to set the brass aside to examine and they went into the pile around my feet. I did find one spent brass later that had a primer that looked a bit different than the other ones that fired. This might have been one that needed a second hit with the firing pin. See the one on the left in the photo below. Note the strange appearance of the primer, it almost looks as if you took a grinder to it to knock down the high spots. I can’t be sure it was one of the original two light strikes, but it sure does look different than any of the others I recovered that day:
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/3light2notes.jpg)
Here is a sampling of a few others shot that day for comparison:
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/light3.jpg)
The grip screws were kept tight throughout the shooting time. The gun was cleaned after last shooting it. In all, I fired about fifty Gold-Dots and about twenty five Winchester rounds the day of the problem. The light strikes occurred within the first few magazines and happened while firing under normal conditions, punching gun out and firing double tap or three quick consecutive rounds with no slow dragged out trigger pulls for slow target shooting.
Has anyone had light hits under similar conditions with their R9? I called the factory, and Ms. Marie asked a few questions, and then sent me directions on how to ship it back to them. I will, of course, post my experience with their anticipated excellent customer service.
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Never have experienced that problem, Joe. Sounds like a weak spring somewhere; just a thought. Sorry you're having the problem. Rohrbaugh will take care it, for sure.
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I had a couple light strikes with my first R9, but only with Winchester Silvertips. I just figured they had hard primers. I don't use Silvertips because of that.
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If all of the light strikes came from the same box/lot no. it could be the ammo. I've seen that happen with Hornady but not Gold Dot. Nothing would surprise me with the hard primers that have invaded U.S. ammo supplies lately. You did the right thing to send it back and they can isolate the problem source.
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i had many of the same kind'a looking primers i posted pixs of here:
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Gunsmith;action=display;num=1304725630
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Man that sucks.
Sometimes the price that is paid for such an excellant trigger pull - though not to be tolerated what so ever.
Would definitely give up some sweet trigger smoothness or light pull for reliability.
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i had many of the same kind'a looking primers i posted pixs of here:
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Gunsmith;action=display;num=1304725630.
yeah, it sure does look like the one in the left in my photo. Did you ever figure what the cause was? The brand on mine was Gold Dots.
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Man that sucks.
Sometimes the price that is paid for such an excellant trigger pull - though not to be tolerated what so ever.
Would definitely give up some sweet trigger smoothness or light pull for reliability.
"Reliability" is indeed the key word. Even though these guns have the restrike capability, you do not want to have to use it. Here is an excerpt from my letter to the factory that I sent back with the gun. It expresses the basic outlook I have on the situation:
I don’t have to tell you the feeling in your gut when you pull the trigger and hear a click instead of a bang. It is a feeling of being vulnerable, of no longer being protected and well prepared. That extra second is all a bad guy needs to get off that first shot.
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Joe,
There is a lot of history on the "fried egg" primer flat/light strikes. This first came up with Hornady Critical Defense Ammo with S&B primers that are quite hard. The combination of small 9mm handguns and hard primers can be a problem. Full size 9 mm handguns such as the Glock 17 and 19 do not tend to have the same issues, at least to my knowledge.
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tracker, I agree with you 100%, thats a pretty rare problem in a full size 9mm.
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yeah, it sure does look like the one in the left in my photo. Did you ever figure what the cause was? The brand on mine was Gold Dots.
everything i know is in that tread. since then, i bought a bucket-load of gold dots but haven't tried them yet. hope i don't run into the same issue again....
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I wonder if the 115 grain Gold Dots have different primers than the 124 grain. The last time at the range i shot a 50 round box of the 115 gr. and did not have any malfunctions.
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Joe,
I just talked to an ATK rep about CCI primers and she said if you would forward photos of your Gold Dot light strikes she would take a look at them. They still make their own primers.
She also said that the Gold Dot primer seating depth tolerance is: flush to -.010" or .005 + or - .005".
linda.olin@atk.com
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I only have the photos i posted here, on the other ones i took, the primer was way out of focus and couldn't be clearly observed.
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So Gold Dots have CCI primers?
CCI primers are known to have the hardest primers in the industry.
Federals being the softest and Winchester and Remington in between.
FWIW
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The lady at ATK/CCI said that there have been very few reported incidents of Gold Dot light strikes and she would like to see the casings or photos.
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That is good news.
Sounds like prompt customer service as well.
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Joe,
I just talked to an ATK rep about CCI primers and she said if you would forward photos of your Gold Dot light strikes she would take a look at them. They still make their own primers.
She also said that the Gold Dot primer seating depth tolerance is: flush to -.010" or .005 + or - .005".
linda.olin@atk.com
post or PM the email address and i will forward them to her
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Here it is: She is in Lewiston Idaho.
linda.olin@atk.com
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Tracker or Joe: If you're talking with Linda at ATK, could you ask her if all of their handgun ammo lines use the same primers, and are they made by CCI? Since ATK owns Speer, CCI, and Federal, it would be interesting information. Thanks! MARK
http://www.atk.com/CorporateOverview/bl_securitycommercial.asp
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I'll bet Reinz may know something on this!
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I have only heard conjecture.
Before ATK owned both CC! and Federal, they were both at opposite ends of the spectrum as far as primer ignition. CCI being the toughest and Federal the easiet.
Now that they are under the same umbrella I have "heard" that they are the same. But I would like to hear it from a credible source.
I don't know the answer to the question.
I like Markwillecho's question and hope we can get an answer.
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yeah, some typical female driver chatting on her phone while making a left crashed into me last week, so i didn't get a chance to make some calls i wanted to get to, between insurance companies and body shop. i might get to that call next week.
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That's not good, Joe. Hope you didn't get injured.
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no, i am good, just crunched in my door skin front and rear.
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Joe, glad you weren't hurt, the car can always be repaired or replaced. :D
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Yes, glad you're ok!
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I just saw the most egregious example of corporate inefficiency i have ever encountered (UPS). I live on Long Island, about 10 miles away from the Rohrbaugh company. I got an email today (Monday) from UPS to expect a shipment "2nd day air" from Rohrbaugh. I have followed online at various times of the day to check the status of the package. I have seen it go through several routine "arrival scan" and "departure scan" notations, starting at Farmingdale, NY. I checked earlier this evening, and i see it went into Queens to Kennedy Airport, a large UPS hub, and i figured, "OK, a bit out of the way, but it will get back here ok". Before i went to sleep i checked and saw "Louisville, KY, United States, 06/14/2011, 1:02 A.M. , Arrival Scan " WTF??? Why the hell fly something 800 miles past my house, and then fly it 800 miles back, only to deliver it 10 miles from its point of origin? That UPS is the most ass-backwards operation if they think it makes economic sense to fly my package over five states away, and back, when i am just around the corner from the shipper. No wonder they cost so much.
But the good news (for me) is that i get my gun back Tuesday.
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UPS is like FedEx--everything goes through Mecca whether it is Louisville or Memphis if it goes by air.