The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh Range Reports => Topic started by: SandMan on August 27, 2010, 08:09:26 PM
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Bottom Line: This is an awesome little machine! – By my definition, it is very accurate and so far has been very reliable. I am looking forward to many happy years to come!! ;D
Background: I bought the R9S from ‘wired’ on the Forum who reported putting 250 rounds through it. It is new production with April 2010 date on the original paperwork. ‘Wired’ had changed the spring [and cleaned it] before sending to me, but otherwise the gun is stock; I touched-up the lube a little – personal preference, but I like Miltec grease on a gun going to the range in the summer in Florida. I also put some sight paint on the front blade.
I was able to get my hands on four types of ammo from local sources; they were the typical 115gr WWB; 115gr Gold Dots; 135gr HydraShok and 124gr Golden Sabers – no Silvertips around.
All shots were fired as aimed slow-fire [very deliberate trigger pull and sight picture] from a two-hand, unsupported grip, standing, at 10 yards, onto bulls-eye target w/2-inch center bull. For comparison, I have shot literally 10s of thousands of rounds through 1911s, thousands thru a 92-style Beretta and several hundred thru my K-T P-32, but I have never fired a ‘pup’ before. I fully understand the role of this gun and will likely never print a bulls-eye target again – BUT, it is always nice to know for the future what the gun is capable of and what is the shooter’s contribution to the final result – plus to rephrase the old saying “…accurate guns are more interesting!”
I initially shot two magazines of WWB for familiarization. No issues, except to note that those first 2-3 unknown shots WILL get your attention! – by the second mag I felt settled and although recoil was indeed stout, I never felt the gun was out of control nor did it surprise me again. I then shot one magazine of each of the HPs for ‘record’ in the order shown - GD, GS, HS. In each case I did the old trick of intentionally throwing the first round off the target so that the next 5 on the target were all the result of the same mechanical lock-up.
Accuracy Results: The target is shown.
(http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z373/truittsinsrq/R9S-10yds.jpg)
I would say that the Gold Dots were the most successful overall, both in shooting closer to POA and with very good grouping. However, the Hydra-Shoks were pretty close – a little lower on POA, but you can see darn near a three shot cloverleaf! – The Sabers were less successful in both POA and grouping, but hardly “bad” as far as results. The two flyers out to lower right were both the last shots in the last two strings – I was clearly getting hand-weary and in fact I actually backed off trigger pulls a few times at that point because the sight picture was deteriorating. [You will just have to take my word for this – the one shot way outside the ring with the “x” thru it is not a flyer – it is actually one of the lock-up shots I had intended to throw away – “tried to miss the paper, but the pup wouldn’t let me!!”] ;D
Following this target, I reloaded three mags worth of all 4 types of ammo in random, mixed order and shot a fresh target – a less deliberate sight picture, but still not just ‘instinctive pointing.’ I easily held all nineteen rounds within the 7-ring with nine within the 9-ring. There were no FTF or FTE even with the mixed types/brands. On two occasions, both with the Golden Sabers, the slide ‘dragged’ closed as it went into battery – it did close, but slowly. I looked more carefully at these rounds and noticed that where the pre-cuts/splits in the bullet noses end, the resulting surface is rough – certainly more so than the other brands. I did not experience any slide bite or other ‘bleeding wounds,’ but by the end I had worn a hole into the inside of the third finger on my strong hand where the protruding edge of the magazine hit me – I’ll put a wrap of tape there ‘next time.’
Final Thoughts: This gun was pretty well broken-in when I got it, but in ~50 more rounds I had no failures or any other mechanical problems. The trigger is long and by no means light, but it IS very smooth, consistent and has that solid/machine-feel to it -- it is clearly a completely different animal than my K-T, which a friend once described as “horsing back on a green twig!” I was very impressed by the overall accuracy and consistency. Next trip will be for some doubles & triples on silhouettes – I already got the Extreme grips to switch out. After another session, or maybe two, I’ll be ready to carry it - I have carried the P-32 in my pocket w/o a holster for almost 10 years – personal preference… but I’m probably going to at least try a holster for the pup. I’m very pleased with my purchase and appreciate all the information and encouragement from folks here on the Forum.
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SandMan, Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore has 115gr Silvertips at $29.99 per 50 rd box. Gene
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SandMan, yes it's very long, but also very good. Hope all you outings are as good.
John
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Sandman, sounds like you're off to a good start.
Definitely get a holster for the pup, regardless of your dress.
There are just too many cases out there of holes blown in pockets, legs, and even MR Weasel! :o
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Sandman, Good detailed range report. It seems you have everything in hand. ;D Tom
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;D "Watch out what you ask for....!!" ;D
LOL!!!
[BTW I see I marked the target as 115gr Sabers; they are in fact 124gr]
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That is an excellent report, SandMan. Thank you. (And by the way, am I correct that the shot closest to "dead center" was one of the 124-grain Golden Sabers? In the interest of full disclosure, I ask the question since that is the load I'm currently carrying in my R9 and my P7. 8) )
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Sandman. As I mentioned in the other thread; one excellent report. :)
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Sandman, sounds like you're off to a good start.
Definitely get a holster for the pup, regardless of your dress.
There are just too many cases out there of holes blown in pockets, legs, and even MR Weasel! :o
OH - NOOO !! NOT MR WEASEL !! (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/eek1.gif)
John
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That is an excellent report, SandMan. Thank you. (And by the way, am I correct that the shot closest to "dead center" was one of the 124-grain Golden Sabers? In the interest of full disclosure, I ask the question since that is the load I'm currently carrying in my R9 and my P7. 8) )
You are correct - the "10x" shot is a Saber. I found nothing really wrong with them, certainly as far as accuracy
These are all small variations at 10 yds - different day; different style of shooting the strings; different individual gun, springs, etc. - all could produce different relative results. My point in the exercise was to see the capability of the gun and 13/15 shots into 4 inches at 10 yds is a PLENTY capable little machine in MHO! :D
I did have the dragging on the feedramp couple times as reported, but my limited experience is hardly conclusive.
[... and I DO appreciate eveyone's concern about MR. Weasel!! "We" are fine! ;D ;D
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Thank's for the verification on the Remington Golden Sabers, SandMan. And let me also state that I also value Winchester Silver Tips and Speer Gold Dots for my R9 and my P7, purchasing any of the three whenever I can find them in 115/124-grain standard-pressure loads.
I don't reload ammunition, due to an agreement with my little wife ("Buy any gun you want whenever you want it but please don't get into reloading!" -- "Deal!"), but I pay a lot of attention to the ammunition in my carry pieces. I ritually and routinely inspect the rounds, even polishing them with a brass polishing cloth, taking care (of course) not to contaminate the primers. Sometimes Joyce will kid me -- "Polishing your bullets again?" -- to which I usually reply something along the lines of, "Honey, I saw a great looking Dillon press advertised recently." ;)
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Richard. Amazing. I do the same thing. I polish the Silvertips, brass and all, everytime I get a box or boxes. Really, all the other ammo as well. Have been doing that from way back when. I like it to shine. :)
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Do you seal your primers?
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tracker. No can't say that I do. I just use the polishing cloth and for these many years everything has fired.
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Perhaps I should explain that the routine inspection and polishing of the carry ammunition is not to aesthetic reasons but to make certain that there are no defornations, burrs, irregularities, or corrosion on any of the rounds. If such are found, the round in question goes into a box set aside for range practice.
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I run all mine through the tumbler for 6hrs every other week.
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/lies1.gif)
John ;D
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;D
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Tumbler. Now there's an idea -- "Honey, I already have a tumbler, I might as well get a press." ;)
Back to the subject of inspecting carry ammunition, it may be my imagination or I may just be paying more attention to such matters in my so-called "golden years," but I seem to find more questionable rounds per box of new ammunition (even premium brands) than I used to do. Quality control just doesn't seem to be what it once was in modern-day ammo manufacturing. Also, when a round is carried for a prolonged period of time in humid conditions (here read "pocket") or cycled through a weapon more than once (such as when a carry piece is cleaned between firings to eliminate pocket dreck, etc.), some bullets and casings can become visibly corroded or scored. Silver Tips, which are quite soft, can become noticeably deformed from repeated recycling.
I got into that habit I described of giving regular and detailed attention to each round of carry ammunition back in the 80's when an old LEO I knew described for me the horror story of a fellow officer who had experienced a misfire in a backup revolver at exactly the wrong time. The after-action (and post-mortem) report pointed to a round which had become degraded from apparently being carried over a prolonged time in the cylinder.
Thus endeth the obsessive-compulsive recitation for the day.
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I must say, Richard, that was a good recitation.
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I run all mine through the tumbler for 6hrs every other week.
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/lies1.gif)
John ;D
As the saying goes, funny, BUT.... -- there was a discussion on Beretta Forum some time ago about people who did indeed tumble their just-loaded rounds to remove excess case lube, minor burrs, etc. IIRC, 6 hours was a good bit longer than typical ;D. - more like 10-15 min. Nobody [left alive] reported blowing themselves up... I could never bring myself to try it, but your mileage may vary... ;)
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As the saying goes, funny, BUT.... -- there was a discussion on Beretta Forum some time ago about people who did indeed tumble their just-loaded rounds to remove excess case lube, minor burrs, etc. IIRC, 6 hours was a good bit longer than typical ;D. - more like 10-15 min. Nobody [left alive] reported blowing themselves up... I could never bring myself to try it, but your mileage may vary... ;)
As Larry the Cable Guy would say, "I don't care who you are -- that's funny!"
;D ;D ;D ;D[size=10] (This is only the second time I've awarded four.)[/size]
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That sounds like a good syllabus candidate for Army OCS. In the Navy OCS we practiced polishing large shell casings but it was with Brasso.
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I polish my ammo so much that my 9mm ammo is now .32 acp. Gene ;) :D
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I polish my ammo so much that my 9mm ammo is now .32 acp. Gene ;) :D
Gene:
Fire that batch and start again. ;)
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I polish my ammo so much that my 9mm ammo is now .32 acp. Gene ;) :D
With the .32's being so scarce........ ;D
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WOW - can't beleive the date & how long it took me to get back to the range! - I must be doing something wrong! ::)
Anyway - another ~50 rounds - used primarily WWB, but randomly loaded in some Gold Dots, Golden Saber & the HyraShoks.
As discussed in original, this effort was not for 'aimed slow fire,' but more typical shooting scenario - target was standard USPSA silhouette. I shot pairs to center of mass and three rounds - two center and one to upper; all at ~8+ to 9 yds (just short of the 10 yd line, but that is right where the lights are better!!! ;D ;D ;) ) I was still pretty deliberate in the shots - definitely 'pairs' and NOT 'double taps!' About half were from low-ready and half from front pocket slow draw.
I had no problem at all keeping all the rounds in the standard lower A-zone - as others have reported - it does point very well. I will say, however, that consistently all my shots were 6-8 inches low - on target & grouped - but low.
I had ONE FTF in 50 rounds - again with a Golden Saber - otherwise flawless with other types/brands, even mixed. When it locked-up with the Golden Saber nosed into the feed ramp, man did it ever lock-up!! The little bugger is so tightly sprung and hard to grab I had a heck of a time clearing it - holding slide back, holding mag release & trying to pull mag all at once - a third hand would have been most helpful! ::) Eventually I had to wedge a leatherman tool in it :o Cussing helped too!! :P
I'm still very pleased with it overall and will try 2 or 3 more 50 round outings before I switch out my Kel-Tec for carry.
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Sandman. Thanks for the 50 rd range report. Since the R9 is a defense weapon, try shooting it less in a range session as the tolerances are very low in the Rohrbaugh; don't know which rd was the FTF, but just a thought.
Glad you are pleased overall! :)
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Sounds like a good range report overall. If I had 1 FTF with a Golden Saber on this trip and a feed issue on the last trip they would be on my practice ammo list untill I used them up.
Are you saying you randomly load the Gold Dots, Golden Saber & the HydraShocks mixed in the mag with the WWBs ? I ask only because I wonder what your thinking is behind that method, if that's what you are doing.
John
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Since the R9 is a defense weapon, try shooting it less in a range session....snip
So, what are you saying? - you don't think I'll run into 50 zombies all at the same time!? ??? ;D ;D
Yeah, maybe I should cut back - but, aw maaan... 50 was already low - heck, I put another 200 thru my Beretta after those 50 - I LIKE to shoot!! :D [The FTF was right around the middle of the session].
Are you saying you randomly load the Gold Dots, Golden Saber & the HydraShocks mixed in the mag with the WWBs ? I ask only because I wonder what your thinking is behind that method, if that's what you are doing.
Yes - exactly. I have always done that with carry and competition guns, any that must run flawlessly, under the belief that it is the most severe 'test' of feeding and will most likely flesh out a problem if there is one...
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Yep! I like to shoot, too! :D The Rohrbaugh R9, though, is designed to carry a lot, shoot little. I shoot more than I should also. :)
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SandMan
Thanks for the explanation, it sounds like a reasonable method
and if it works for you that's all that matters.
John
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Well, I am sure it is part 'cult' and mostly habit.... but 'back-in-tha'-day' when 1911s weren't what they are now, there was a huge number of combinations of feed ramp types, recoil spring weights, mag types/brands, mag springs, feed-lip styles/adjustment - plus all the ammo stuff - weight, shape, OAL, etc, etc... if one could find a set-up that would reasonably feed inter-mixed ball, JHP and different brands/bullet shapes, one had a higher level of comfort that such a set-up would tolerate the lesser variations within a chosen single ammo type. I realize that a lot of this may not be very applicable to the 'pups' and auto pistols in general these days, but habits die hard ::) - and I certainly don't see any real downside... the fact that MY single gun doesn't seem to like one particular choice, while three other options work fine in it, is hardly a indictment of the gun or that ammo. It's all good :)