The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: C0untZer0 on December 31, 2012, 11:36:07 PM
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I use thumbs forward on my other pistols but there's just not a lot of room with this gun to stack my thumbs - the web of my hand gets pretty close to the slide, I'm thinking I'm gonna get some railroad tracks across the web of my hand.
There's also not a lot of room to get the heel of my non-shooting hand snugged between the thumb and fingers of my shooting hand,
I've seen some shooters on YouTube do thumb over thumb... Just looking for some tips from people who h :)ave learned how best to shoot the R9
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When shooting my R9 using two hands, I employ the "thumb over thumb" grip. However, under the assumption that you never know what circumstances may require at any given time, I also practice shooting the pistol with one hand, including some practice with the weak hand. I also practice with a variety of stances, my personal preference being the two-handed isosceles stance.
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Ok. I'll try to explain this as best I can. I have relatively large hand and quite long fingers. I use a Rob Leatham thumb forward technique, but because of the shortness of the Rohrbaugh grip my instructor modified Rob's style slightly. I hold my weak hand a little higher over my strong hand and extend my weak index finder to grip the front of the trigger guard. That gives me the maximum amount of "flesh to metal". The slide does not interfere at all, but be warned about this grip: The area of your thenar space (the area between your thumb and index finger on your strong hand) is going to get pounded. Shoot long enough and area where your thumb meets your hand, just inside the knuckle can get bruised or scraped. I don't mind because this grip gives me maximum recoil control and I can get the handgun back on target quickly. There are so many variations of hands that you cannot really use a "textbook" style of grip on a Rohrbaugh. Go to the range and have someone trained in personal defense find the best grip and stance for you. After all, this is why the Rohrbaugh is designed as it is. I was taught to use a Modified Weaver Stance for a variety of reasons, mostly recoil control and reduced silhoette. Good luck. ;)
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Thumbs forward, right over left. I could not hold it like this well until the VZ grips and my (dremeled down) mag extension. I also draw and shoot one handed for "go time" circumstances
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I did go shooting with my R9 finally. I bought batter's gloves, well - glove singular since I only wear it on my right hand. I did thumbs forward since that's all I really know and it worked out OK. I was consistently creating 5 shot groups under 2" at 15 yards. I'm sure there are people here who can do better, but I was happy with that for my first time out.
But it is taking me a long time to grip the pistol and after I fire I have to adjust my grip. I think it's much easier for me to fire it one handed, and get back on target more quickly one handed because I'm not re-adjusting my grip, i'm just coming back down on target.
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This was good, I learned something.
The first pic, is my strong hand hold. Both thumbs forward. My grip is as high as possible, thus I have the most control of the gun as possible( the most amount of the gun is in the grasp as possible) , and the least amount of felt recoil as well.
The second pic is my weak hand hold. Very little experience, thus I feel more comfortable with the thumb holding the other thumb down hold. You can see that the grip is a lower grip style. While more comfortable, it does not appear to have as much control of the gun since it does not have as much of the gun in the grasp.
I can see that I need to practice a different uncomfortable grip for my weak grasp for more control. With more practice it will become comfortable.
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I must admit to being about ready to give up on my R9. I just can't get used to the way the front of the trigger guard bites the front of my trigger finger with every shot. The trigger guard on my .38+P S&W J-frame doesn't do this and it has more recoil than the R9. I've tried every way to grip this gun I can imagine and the outcome is the same.
The gun groups very well and I really like it for "small" concealed carry. Of course, in a defensive situation, the bite on the trigger finger will be of no consequence but it definitely affects my ability to practice.
I shouldn't have to put a stick between my teeth for pain control to shoot a pistol... :-\
Am I the only R9 owner with this problem? What's the solution?
Thanks
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Chinook:
As you note, during a crisis situation (God forbid it should happen) you won't notice any "bite" on the trigger finger. For practice, you might consider using a thin shooting glove or something as mundane as a piece of adhesive tape on the trigger finger.
I do not have the difficulty you describe with the trigger guard of the R9, but my hands are on the smaller side of medium in size. However, years ago when a Walther PPK was my pocket pistol it's slide had a tendency "to bite the hand that fed it" during recoil by inflicting a cut in the webbing of the thenar space between thumb and forefinger (the infamous "Walther bite"). My solution to the problem was simply to use a shooting glove during range sessions.
Since your R9 groups well and you really like it for CCW, I would just practice with some protection for the trigger finger and rest assured that if you ever have to use the piece in self defense you're adrenaline level will be so high you won't notice any "bite" from the trigger guard.
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I must admit to being about ready to give up on my R9. I just can't get used to the way the front of the trigger guard bites the front of my trigger finger with every shot. The trigger guard on my .38+P S&W J-frame doesn't do this and it has more recoil than the R9. I've tried every way to grip this gun I can imagine and the outcome is the same.
The gun groups very well and I really like it for "small" concealed carry. Of course, in a defensive situation, the bite on the trigger finger will be of no consequence but it definitely affects my ability to practice.
I shouldn't have to put a stick between my teeth for pain control to shoot a pistol... :-\
Am I the only R9 owner with this problem? What's the solution?
Thanks
Chinook - First, do you have VZ grips and mag extensions? They help immensely. I have never had the "trigger finger bite" either but my hands and wrists are arthritic and my trouble is I really am unable to get off 7 rounds as fast and acurate as with other pistols. I just lose my grip with the R9, not the pistols fault just my physical limitations. Maybe the R9 is not the best choice for you either.
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Good point about the mag extensions. I do have one and it gives my hand a better grip. I also have Rohrbaugh's replacement grips but I've not put them on because of hearing the stories of problems getting grips back on. This is not a matter for this thread but the grips to a S&W revolver have one screw and they swap out in seconds. But, as I said, that's another story...
I'd characterize my hands as "medium"; I can grip the R9 without problem and controlling the recoil is not a problem either. I just can't keep the front of the trigger guard from bitting my trigger finger... every darn shot... not just occasionally... it's really annoying. I've even used my left hand as a pressure point behind my right hand; trying to push the gun forward (which makes accurate shooting neigh impossible, by the way) but no joy.
I've even considered cutting the front of the trigger guard out with a hack saw but my loyalty to a beautiful firearm prevents this...
Can someone suggest a glove to try? None of my gloves are "thin" enough for this application..
Thanks
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Howdy Chinook - Where exactly is the trigger gaurd biting you?
If you laid you palm flat down on the table, fingers spread, where is the injury?
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Chinook - Forget the Rohrbaugh grips. Get a set of VZ's and have a Gunsmith install them if you are afraid to.
One reviewer described Rohrbaugh grips like holding on to a bar of soap in the shower, I agree.
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Can someone suggest a glove to try? None of my gloves are "thin" enough for this application..
Thanks
You might want to consider these:
http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum11182.php
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If you laid you palm flat down on the table, fingers spread, where is the injury?
There's no visible "injury"... not like gripping too high and getting caught by the slide... ouch.. done that more than once. It's just a painful knock with each shot. The knock comes between the two middle joints of the trigger finger, about 1" down from the bottom of the nail.
Get a set of VZ's
What are VZs and where do I get them?
Thanks
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Here is the link to VZ's offerings for the R9. Check out their other products while you are there. Good luck.
https://vzgrips.com/gun-grips/rohrbaugh-r9
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Howdy Chinook, thanks, thats good info. That tells me that the gun is just a little too jumpy for ya.
The VZ's may help a little, or at least for a few mags, then poop out on ya.
If you need more help try this.
Now this goes against most modern training, but if it keeps you for ditching this little wonder, who cares?
Assuming that you are right handed, with your left hand, take your left fore finger and bring it up to the front of the trigger gaurd. Now you want to curl that finger around the front of the trigger gaurd up to the second joint if possible; almost like you were going to shoot a double action trigger.
Now with this finger, you apply pressure STRAIGHT BACK- just like you should with a trigger. This is the reason trainers don't like this method. Most shooters have a hard time pulling STRAIGHT BACK. Most shooters pull to the left. Therefore, their bullets miss the intended target to the left.
It will feel weird and require practice, but I assure you, this will reduce the hopping of the gun, thus reduce/stop the finger biting. ( I've gone 150 rounds no problems)
Also, if you can practice both thumbs forward, this will give you the highest possibe grip and the Most grip possibe, thus more control over the gun.
I know the pic looks like all thumbs and fingers, but keep in mind the size of the gun.
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I'm still using stock Rohrbaugh grips. I get thwacked in the trigger finger occasionally when I shoot two handed. I bought a pair of Nike batting gloves and they save my hand and they work. I tried a bunch on at a Sporting goods store and bought the smoothest most form fitting glove I could find - especially soft pliable leather on the finger tips and smart seam & stiching. I judge that by putting the glove on an pulling an imaginary trigger, if the glove is interefring with that motion - it sucks. A quality shooting glove or batting glove won't interfere with the trigger oull motion. The batting glove is pretty thin too, it doesn't have to be a thick glove, just a little bit of leather there keeps my finger fine. It doesn't happen when I shoot one handed because my whole arm rises up with the recoil - probably makes for slow follow-up shots but it is what it is.
I personally don't see the sense in mag extensions, I got the R9 because it is the smalles lightest 9mm out there, so IMO if I'm going to make it the size of a PM9 - I should have bought a PM9 in the first place (but I don't so I won't).
The other thing that I do, I exercise my fingers, wrists and forearms quite a lot to build up and maintain hand strength.
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COuntZerO said
I personally don't see the sense in mag extensions, I got the R9 because it is the smalles lightest 9mm out there, so IMO if I'm going to make it the size of a PM9 - I should have bought a PM9 in the first place (but I don't so I won't).
I have found that yankee's extensions made the pistol no harder to carry or conceal in my front pocket. In fact they make the pistol easier and faster to draw and acquire the proper grip.
If you don't have a PM9, you should. JMO
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Now with this finger, you apply pressure STRAIGHT BACK- just like you should with a trigger.
This is an interesting idea. It's like providing a "vise-like" condition that could stabilize everything. It's counter-intuitive, of course, to push back when the backward motion is what's causing the problem. I'll try it.
Re the VZs: They come in three styles; G10 material with and without checkering and carbon fiber w/o checkering. I'm not sure what G10 material is nor how it compares to carbon fiber. If the carbon fiber were checked, that would probably be my choice. Which one is recommended?
Thanks
PS. I just acquired my first new (used) handgun of the year and my wife reminded me of my 3 handgun limit per year... She has yet to impose a limit on accessaries so the VZs can be on the table without putting further gun acquisitions at risk... :D
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The most popular among members are the Checkered G-10s and the Carbon Fiber.
After trying out my first pair of CF, I was so impressed how they felt and worked, I bought 3 more pair for my other R9's , even though I was and still am curious about the checkered G10.
Well, gotta be honest here too. :-[ Looks play a big role as well. To ME, the CF just outshines the G10s as well. 8)
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Now with this finger, you apply pressure STRAIGHT BACK- just like you should with a trigger.
This is an interesting idea. It's like providing a "vise-like" condition that could stabilize everything. It's counter-intuitive, of course, to push back when the backward motion is what's causing the problem. I'll try it.
You are correct, it CAn be vise-like if used properly. There MUst be some forward pressure/lean whatever you want to call it, also.
If you are shooting with one foot in front of the other, then there should be about 60% of your weight on your front foot, thus 40% on your back. Also, when you pull back with your left forefinger, you must resist that pressure or very slight push back with your grip hand. I am talking minute movements here. It can be awkward at first and it you don't pay attention, shots will go all over the plalce.
If you shoot from an Icosoles position, feet square with firing line about shoulder width apart or bit more, you gently flex your knees and put a little weight forward at all points: balls of toes, ankles, knees, and shoulders. (These points go for the above Weaver, modified Weaver as well)
This all may sound more complicated than it really is. But when you start shooting, it is just makes sense.
Hope this helps
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The most popular among members are the Checkered G-10s and the Carbon Fiber.
Are the CFs completely smooth? Is the G10 material a plastic? There can't be much difference in weight but the CFs would likely be stronger.
I wonder if the carbon fibers restrict the ability to impress checkering?? Does checkering aid in holding the R9?? If so, then checkered G10s, even if structurally inferior to CFs, would be the choice...
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Howdy Chinook - the Gi10s are not plastic, they are fiber- based like micardia. And the CF are actually G10 with CF mixed in. As far as why checkering is not offered with the CF, I have no idea.
Now even though the CF comes across smooth, they still offer great gripping capacity.
As far as weight, it's not an issue.
If you are having difficulty deciding, I would go with the G10, it may be more of sure thing.
Hope this helps.