The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: hkp7nut on May 08, 2013, 06:21:34 PM
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Hi All! Well my R9 is scheduled to arrive tomorrow and I can't wait! I know these aren't target guns however i plan on putting a couple hundred rounds down range ( to get used to it, run some drills etc.) and I understand I should change the spring after about 250-300 rounds.
Questions:
1) Is there a cheaper ammo that anyone suggests to use when practicing?
2) Is it really true that after 250-300 rounds i need to change the spring?
3) What is the best defensive ammo to carry?
Reliability is key so any input ya'all can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
Regards,
Drew
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Drew,
Congrats on the near arrival of your Perfect Undercover Pistol.
Mine has operated perfectly with everything except for Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty. I have read that Hornady uses hard primers.
1) If you don't have a supply of 9mm, you might start out with a couple boxes of full metal jacket.
2) It is recommended to change the spring every 200 rounds. I change mine out even earlier. The factory sends an extra with the gun, and spares are only $5.00.
3) Speer Gold Dot is the way to go according to everything I have seen. I agree about reliability and would want to put at least a couple boxes through of whatever I intend to carry.
You probably know that you need to take it down, clean it, and lube it before taking it out for it's first trip to the range.
It was a little difficult to put the recoil spring back in the first few times. I use the syringe technique, but a big pair of pliers works too.
Good luck, and let us all know how it goes.
Griff
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Drew:
What Griff said. And welcome to the Forum, with congratulations on your selection of the finest pocket pistol yet produced.
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Good advice from Griff!
As far as practice ammo---I've used whatever is cheapest--- WWB, American Eagle, Blazer, etc--- they all shoot fine in my R9. Today it may be whatever is cheapest that you can find!,
I've also had issues with Critical Defense not firing in my pup---there are several threads from a couple of years ago where many folks were having problems with them in their R9s due to hard primers. So I carry Gold Dots and use the CDs in my other guns.
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Hi Everyone and thanks for the welcoming and advise!
So for practice, use whatever and then for self defense, the Speer Gold Dots should do the trick!
I have coveted an R9s since the first time I held one at a gun show. It was a solid 5 years ago and just couldn't raise the funds to pick one up. Finally, after selling my seecamp I had the opportunity to buy one and I couldn't be happier.
Here is something i think everyone can relate to:
So USPS says that the gun is supposed to be delivered to my FFL today.... unfortunately, the mail already came and no gun :(
Of course, he's closing early today and closed tomorrow so i have to go another 4 DAYS To get my PUP!!! This is KILLING ME!!!! I keep hitting the refresh on my tracking to see if miraculously it has been delivered but nothing yet. I can't STAND this!!!!
HAHA, figured ya'all could relate
Thanks again and if anyone has any other info I should know, please chime in!
Also, anyone know where to buy the diss assembly tool? Seems like they are impossible to find.
THANKS!!
Drew
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Pray this prayer...Lord give me patience, and give it to me now. ;)
For disassembly, I hold the pistol in my left hand with the muzzle facing to the right. With my thumb down and index finger up and wrapped around the slide between the hammer and ejection port, squeeeeze the action open until the slide bolt is lined up with the hole in the slide. Then I use a spray nozzle plastic tube from a wd40 can to push the pin out the large hole on the other side.
To put the pin back in, just turn it around and use your right hand. I hope this makes sense.
I think it is important to be able to take down and reassemble away from the gun bench.
Your greatest weapon is between your ears, and your Rohrbaugh tools are at the end of your arms.
I searched for a Rohrbaugh all over my home state of Alabama for months, none of the local gun dealers even knew what it was. I found mine at a gun store in Birmingham that had it in the glass case for quite a while.
The wait and finally getting it was like Christmas when I was a kid.
The worst part is that none of my subsequent gun purchases have been nearly as gratifying.
I think you are experiencing a male malady called gunitisinteruptus. :D
Griff
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Griff:
Well said.
Rohrbaugh is a name not yet well known to the "masses," but that is all the more reason for the cognoscenti to purchase a Rohrbauth while the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution is still in effect.
In June of this year I shall enter my 76th year on this third rock from the sun. I've lived and worked in third-world countries where the first actions of the dictators or military juntas du jour were to outlaw and attempt to confiscate all firearms from the law-abiding public. That left only the military, police, outlaw warlords, drug dealers, and common criminals (a category that often included underpaid "outlaw" lower ranks of the military and police) in possession of guns. It also enhanced the adoption of the machete as the weapon of choice by rebels and the "Blood Diamond Crowd" for committing atrocities such as beheading and amputations on those who opposed them.
At my age and station in life, I don't particularly give a loose flying damn about who might agree with me on such things these days. However, for those of you born in later years than I first saw the light of day, my advice would be to support the NRA and the cause of preserving the narrow margin of victory in the Heller case. In a few years I shall be long gone to my own "Valhalla." However, if you want your grandchildren to live under something other than the "Australian/Canadian/Great Britain/United Nations/Soros/Blumberg" model of gun control, stay involved, register to vote, and vote for those who support the Second Amendment in local, state, and national elections.
As I have noted, I shall be gone in a few years. During that limited period of time I expect the Second Amendment still to be in effect. However, the "wimps," "nerds," and "hoplophobes" are out there and growing in numbers. I wish you fellow supporters of the Second Amendment all success.
RS out.
[Edit: Spelling correction. Mea culpa.] ;)
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Very well said Richard!
Thank you...
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I would stay away from Remington Golden Sabre. I had what I thought at first were light strikes, but I came across this video on YouTube where a guy was having the same problem with Remington Golden Sabres in his Ruger LC9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M0zb3YS0RAQ#t=17s
When I looked at the primers of the cartridges that fired, instead of a dent, they just have a lighter colored spot. I had 2 failure to ignite out of 7 Golden Sabres. I noticed on the cases that did fire - I had very shallow indentations on the primers.
The top left two are Winchester Ranger T and Speer Gold Dot, the bottom left is a Golden Sabre that fired and you can see the primer is barely nicked.
The top right two are Remington Golden Sabres that failed to fire.
(http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6686.0;attach=645;image)
In 200 rounds of 124gr & 147gr Gold Dots, 124gr & 147gr Lawman TMJs, and Winchester 147gr RA9Ts - I haven't had a single problem. But Remington Golden Sabres created a problem.
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Count:
I'm sorry you have had difficulties with the Remington Golden Sabers. My experience has been that I have never had a failure to fire in the four calibers in which I have used the GS -- .380 ACP, .357 Magnum, 9mm Parabellum, and .45 ACP. The 124-grain GS is loaded in my R9 as I write this post, and my views on the round are generally reflected at the following link.
http://policelink.monster.com/products/products/1889-remington-golden-saber
Speer Gold Dots and Winchester Silvertips are two other rounds I also trust implicitly.
However, everyone must find what works in his/her weapon and feel entirely comfortable with it. My experience with the GS in my own R9 has just been different from yours.
[Edit: Eliminated errors in syntax.]
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I guess everyone's experience with their R9 and ammo can be different. That's why its important to try ammo in your R9 before actually loading it for carry.
I would never have thought I'd have trouble with Golden Sabres, but the R9 been so great with the other ammo - I don't blame the gun.
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Could the Golden Sabers have had hard primers?
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Ammo is made in lots with, I understand, parts from suppliers as available. Primers have been notoriously variable from one lot of ammo to another even within one brand. Might be interesting to note which lot # of Sabres is having the issue.
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I have had this problem show up several different times with my R9 and a Colt Pocket Nine.
My theory is it is a combination of light hits and long headspace. I have had the "fried egg" primers with one pistol and the same ammo fired in several others has normal hits.
COunt - Try the same ammo in what ever other 9mm's you own and report back if you can.
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I think it is a combination of things also. In the youtube sequence the gentleman was having ftf problems with Sellier and Bellot and Golden Sabers in his LC9. S&B is reputed to use hard primers. Primer seating depth can also be an issue. Some small 9mm pistols and several of these factors seem to work in combination to produce ftfs. In my experience with Hornady CD, the unfired rounds had the same flat, pancaked, dimpleless primers as shown here. The only solution is to avoid this issue when it is known.
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I have spent the better part of two hours searching the Intenet and its forums for references to failures to fire regarding the Remington Golden Sabers, the Speer Gold Dots, and the Wnchester Silvertips -- my three favorite brands of ammunition. I have found all sorts of comments, pro and con, on each.
I have also researched primers used in each of the three brands mentioned above -- although the manufacturers tend to guard that informtion as proprietary and one is left to anecdotal reports of the various forums.
What I have determined is that primers seem to be "fungible" in the present market and that when you purchase any of the aforementioned brands for your R9, it is best to test a magazine of cartidges from the box, make notice of the lot and results, and go forward. Also, make certain that your R9 (or other weapon) is clean (especially the firing-pin channel), that the firing-pin spring is full strength, and that the pistol's slide/frame interface is clean and well lubricated. (FrogLube comes to mind.)
Bottom line -- as the current jargon goes, keep your R9 clean, determine what works best in it, and stay with whatever works . . . provided that you can find the ammunitation to make the test these days.
Hell, it's getting so bad in this market that I'm going back through my gun safe to examine and hand-polish individual cartidges. In that process, I've found an almost full box of lead-nose .32 Long Colt I didn't know I still had and for which I no longer even own the revolver. (Does anyone remember those?) Now I'm thinking of calling the friend to whom I sold that Colt and increasing the return on my investment. ;D
[Edit: Spelling errors.]
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Good post Richard. Thank you for the report on your research findings.
One of the things I really like about the Rohrbaugh is the re-strike ability of the trigger system. When I have had failure to fire, I have had some of the rounds go off after multiple trigger pulls. The ones that didn't fire in the R9, did ignite from a full size pistol.
I agree that we should sample every box-lot before carrying. It might also be a good idea to visually inspect each round, and even remove the barrel from the firearm and test fit the rounds before loading the magazine.
Belt and suspenders.
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Second strike capability is swell but doesn't do much for me in a self-defense situation where it needs to go "bang" every time without a big "click" and a question mark. The primers from some out-sourcing manufacturers have been suspect for awhile but with the current supply/demand imbalance the problem seems to be worsening.
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As of this morning www.ammoman.com has 124 gr Speer Gold Dot in stock. $450/500 rounds.
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Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124gr 500 rounds $375
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=341048768
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10-4 Richard S!!!
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Second strike capability is swell but doesn't do much for me in a self-defense situation where it needs to go "bang" every time without a big "click" and a question mark. The primers from some out-sourcing manufacturers have been suspect for awhile but with the current supply/demand imbalance the problem seems to be worsening.
tracker, I have to agree with you on second strike capability. I shoot Bullseye Pistol and the .22 lr ammo lately is lousy about not going off. If it does not fire in a match, you lose the match. In a self defense situation, you very well could lose your life.
JMO. If it does not go off on the first pull every time, it is not going to be in my pocket. That is why I have developed a preference for striker fired pistols. I have yet to have one not go off on the first try.
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Your point is well taken; however, my primary concern is with the quality of the ammunition rather than whether a pistol is striker fired or hammer fired. Both should function well with the proper ammo components. Like anything that has to work in concert it is the performance of the total system that spells success. It only takes one weak link like an inadequate primer to fail the firing system test.
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The design of the firing system of DAO hammer-fired pistols is a give and take situation between trigger pullweght and length of travel, and the force by which the primer is struck. To get that nice, steady, and light trigger you have to give up striking force. I carried a Colt Pocket Nine which I really liked except for the trigger. I took it to my Gunsmith to see if he could lighten it up and he consulted with a friend of his who was known nationally for worjk on Colt DAO pistols and said nothing could be done without jeopardizing the reliability of the pistol.
The trigger on the Boberg pistols leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion. He has a weaker spring system which helps it a lot, but his Liability Insurance carry will not allow him to ship a pistol with that spring in it and he can only sell it as an "after market target spring". The reason being that there are now four lawsuits against firearms manufacturers concerning pistols that failed to fire in defense situations.
To me it is not worth the risk if you plan to carry.
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I'll shoot the GS in my P7 and my Glock 17L
I'm pretty sure it will do just fine in both guns, the Glock eats everything and in 30 plus years of shooting the P7M8 I've never had one single failure of any kind.
Just for people's information, my R9 was cleaned before going to range that day. I oiled it in all the recommended spots, I used Tri-Flow. I did put a tiny amount of LubriPlate SFL-0 on (in) the barrel link. I fired a mix of Lawman 124gr & 147gr ammo, 29 rounds. I know that sounds like an odd number to fire, but I shot 50 rounds total that day. After the Lawman, I fired 7 rounds of Golden Sabre. After I had failure to ignite with the Golden Sabres I was concerned that maybe something had broken on my pistol, but I put 14 rounds of 147gr Winchester Ranger "T" through it right after the GS - and the R9 worked fine. That's when I started looking at the fired and unfired primers.