The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: trident on January 21, 2014, 07:23:47 PM
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(http://i40.tinypic.com/2e30oz5.jpg)
Water tank test .
3/4 full expansion stopped mid expansion !
Naked water only
4 layers heavy clothing
Amazing rounds IMO & I have been testing bullets since 1970s
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/2qnph01.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/20ur2j4.jpg)
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Thanks for the outstanding photos, trident. I am sold on HST 124 gr.. Even though the HST is non-bonded I have seen evidence that it will also penetrate windshields. Can you confirm?
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http://zerocant.com/?p=503
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Excellent.
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(http://i44.tinypic.com/27yzl6u.jpg)
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Looks to be the perfect "star" from Federal .... ;)
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Here's a YouTube guy testing the 124gr HST out of a 3" barrel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lGqdMdbir0
The results look good to me.
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I just ordered a 100 of these.
sgammo has a good price on them. Looks like a good alternative to gold dot.
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how deep did it penetrate?
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how deep did it penetrate?
15 inches in the clip posted. It starts at 3:00 minutes.
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Thanks, didn't notice the video link.
15" water is about 7~8" in gel, right?
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Thanks, didn't notice the video link.
15" water is about 7~8" in gel, right?
Not sure. That's gel though in the clip.
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Just a recap of the video:
Adjusted penetration in bare clear gel 15.15" on average. Average expansion .520" but ranging up to .627".
To me that represents performance that I would expect if shooting an assailant in light clothing - like a T-shirt or bare chested.
15.69" avg penetration in ordnance gel through 4 layers of denim. Average expansion .478" but ranging up to .590".
While the 4-layer denim IWBA protocol isn't the same as the FBI Heavy Clothing test, it represents, IMO, performance that I would expect if shooting an assailant in heavy clothing, such as a jean jacket or multiple layers of clothing.
The 147gr HST tests yielded more expansion, slightly less penetration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VfWkWMzOI
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Is Federal HST 124 gr 9mm a +P round?
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No, but it is available in +P.
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Federal has made that round in both standard pressure and +P.
If anyone knows where to get the +P, let me know. It is hard to come by.
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My test was with standard...I find no reason to use +P in my r9. Ymmv
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The R9 is not rated for +p anyways, not that you would get much benefit with +p from a 2.9" barrel.
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The R9 is not rated for +p anyways, not that you would get much benefit with +p from a 2.9" barrel.
I would advise you to do some chronograph testing. You get 40 to 50 fps more with the +P.
In my opinion, the short barrel nine's benefit more from the +P. Velocity is what makes the bullet expand.
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We seem to be chasing our tails here. Who cares about the +P on an R9 forum if it is an unauthorized load?
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We seem to be chasing our tails here. Who cares about the +P on an R9 forum if it is an unauthorized load?
If you have done any testing, the statement about +P ammunition being of no value in short barreled pistols is false, that's all.
Maybe we should be looking beyond R9's also the way things are starting to look.
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You seem to have lost sight of the topic of the O.P. in making your 50 fps point in short barrels.
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If a round is showing 14" or so inches of penetration in the IWBA 4-layer denim protocol, that gives me confidence that the round will reach vital tissue with proper shot placement.
I think at some point a person has to realize what an R9 is and accept what an R9 is. Just like all carry choices, people have to make decisions about what they think will meet their needs.
I personally worry about using +p ammo in the R9 for a different reason, I think it creates a recoil impulse outside of range for what the gun was designed for and in guns like the Kimber Solo and the Diamondback DB9 that has resulted in FTEs and FTFs. I think Diamondback found out after the fact that their DB9 was really designed around the standard pressure 115gr cartridge and doesn't cycle well with bullets over 124 grains, or +P cartridges - this is in addition to and separate from the guns experiencing catastrophic failure with +P rounds. Even if the DB9s don't blow apart with +P ammo - they don't function well with it. Kimber found out after their pistol was released, that their Solo was really designed around the standard pressure 124gr cartridges and doesn't cycle well with bullets under 124 grains. Kimber's website says the Solo is designed to function optimally using premium hollow-point self-defense factory ammunition with bullet weights of 124 or 147 grains, but owners have reported that if they actually call CS with problems, Kimber recommends 124gr loads.
So I would be hesitant to use +P ammo in my R9 for fear of it jamming, and I don't want to beat the pistol to death trying to verify what +P ammo works in it.
This goes back to accepting what the R9 is.
Just like someone who carries a 380 AUTO doesn't expect 18" of penetration and an expanded bullet diameter of .70", I don't expect that kind of performance out of the little R9 either.
If I wanted that kind of performance I would be carrying a 10mm.
If a person is to the point where they think you need the performance that +P rounds provide, then they are to the point where they need to get a gun other than the R9, that is my opinion.
I'm happy with a pocket pistol that can get bullets to around 13"-14" of penetration through denim, and expand to around .60 caliber, and you can get that with the 147gr HST.
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C0untZer0
I agree with nearly everything you say. I would never shoot +P ammo in a R9. I still think that +P ammo is very desirable in short barreled pistols designed for +P.
I would never shoot +P in the R9 for a different reason. The slide is not heavy enough and the spring is not stiff enough and I would worry about the slide unlocking too early which can cause all kinds of thing to happen, all bad. I have seen the start of this with 10mm pistols and heavy loads and have gone to heavier recoil springs. Also, the alloy frame with the tiny takedown pin does not appear to be designed for over pressure loads.
To get light weight for pocket carry, some things must be compromised in the ammo used. To get a light and smooth trigger pull in a hammer fired pistol, one has to be aware of light hits.
R9 users must be aware of these drawbacks.