The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: JoshA on October 24, 2015, 04:57:08 PM
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460 Rowland ;D ;D ;D
No this is not a Halloween joke as scary as it may sound.
Anyone ever done it or fired one? Just in case I run into any Griz here in Indiana ya know.
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Maybe some rogue Elk in Elkhart?
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Maybe some rogue Elk in Elkhart?
Ya never know.
It sounds like it has the power of a 44 mag out of a semiauto pistol. The kit comes with a muzzle break. Crazy.
MRC, any experience?
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All I know is what I have read and that is not much.
If I were going to build one, I would go the 1911 route and go with the Clark set up. They are very talented Gunsmiths.
http://clarkcustomguns.com/parts-category/1911/
It is my understanding that the comp is a must as it is part of the design to add mass to the slide/barrel to make the whole thing work right. Some recoil reduction would be nice also I would imagine. ;)
Since you have the Glock, I guess that is the way you want to go. The recoil would be quite substantial I would think. I would forget about the 29 and go with the 21. With the comp it is going to be a big gun anyway and the extra barrel length would be a plus.
My suggestion would be to get familiar with what Glock kits are available and then post a question on the 10mm Forum as to what they would recommend. Being 10mm guys, most are very familiar with the Glocks and also several of them are shooting Rowlands of some kind.
There are about 4 or 5 guys that post regularly on that board that really know the workings of pistols and give very good and honest advice and are building and fitting their own pistols.
Good luck.
Added later
I thought that the Clark kit had to be fitted before I read their catalog. For $295 I am tempted to give one a try Josh.
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Here's a pretty good video. the recoil does not look that bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqGusmfjWSY
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Very interesting--that could be a handful at 40,000 psi and almost 1000 ft/lbs. of energy. These guys shooting it in the video are gorillas compared to us mere mortals.
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I agree tracker. I do not have a 45 ACP Glock and the extractor on a 10mm won't work.
I have a Longslide Springfield Armory 1911 that I would like to try it in but I do not know what Clark would say.
I might have to ask.
Later
I got to thinking, the Longslides are a bushingless design, won't work.
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Thanks for the input MRC.
Interesting piece IMO.
44 mag power in semi auto. Hmmmmmm.
Eric, can you come up with a conversion kit for the R9 to 460 Rowland? :o
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I agree with you on it being an interesting caliber to try.
I talked to Clay down at Clark's today and he was a big help. As far as recoil goes with a mid range load the recoil is about like a full powered 45 ACP. He shoots one and the heaviest load that they have found is a 255 gr cast bullet load from Buffalo Bore and he says that is about like shooting a full sized 10mm. The comps are heavy and they really reduce recoil and muzzle flip.
They sell the brass and 45 ACP dies are used to hand load the ammo which I have. I have a pretty good supply of #7 powder and Power Pistol powder on hand so I went ahead and ordered the kit and 200 rounds of brass. $360.00 total shipped Fed Ex.
The whole thing is a lot less complicate than I could have imagined and you still have your 45 ACP pistol if you want to convert back.
I bought a Colt Combat Elite that was slightly used and had good adjustable sights a few years back at a very good price to use as a project gun so the project finally came up.
Clay said that 90% + of the kits drop right in which is hard for me to believe but I gues I will find out. I will have my Gunsmith who builds Competition 1911's check it over anyway.
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I agree with you on it being an interesting caliber to try.
I talked to Clay down at Clark's today and he was a big help. As far as recoil goes with a mid range load the recoil is about like a full powered 45 ACP. He shoots one and the heaviest load that they have found is a 255 gr cast bullet load from Buffalo Bore and he says that is about like shooting a full sized 10mm. The comps are heavy and they really reduce recoil and muzzle flip.
They sell the brass and 45 ACP dies are used to hand load the ammo which I have. I have a pretty good supply of #7 powder and Power Pistol powder on hand so I went ahead and ordered the kit and 200 rounds of brass. $360.00 total shipped Fed Ex.
The whole thing is a lot less complicate than I could have imagined and you still have your 45 ACP pistol if you want to convert back.
I bought a Colt Combat Elite that was slightly used and had good adjustable sights a few years back at a very good price to use as a project gun so the project finally came up.
Clay said that 90% + of the kits drop right in which is hard for me to believe but I gues I will find out. I will have my Gunsmith who builds Competition 1911's check it over anyway.
Lol. You so crazy. I like that about ya. I'll look forward to hearing how the project goes.
I'm thinking this would make a better bear gun than Glock 29 in 10 mm. I will likely use the 21 as you stated, but I guess in the end it's the same kit for both guns. .
Am I correct that all that is involved in the kit is a 23 lb recoil spring, threaded barrel and comp?
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Here is what you get from Clark for $295.00. I am sure that the Glock kit would be different. You get a 24# spring and a 20# spring both. Clay said to try the 24# spring first if you are running full power loads. Some all stainless guns won't run on on the 24# even with full power loads.(higher coefficient of friction) If you what to load down a little, put in the 20#. That is what I will probably do as I will be working up hand loads.
The directions for installation are very good I have heard. They also send loading data.
Click on the image to view.
(http://)
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The video shown above also recommended a Glock magazine spring replacement to a heavier one but the shooter was using the factory magazine spring.
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The video shown above also recommended a Glock magazine spring replacement to a heavier one but the shooter was using the factory magazine spring.
Ah yes. Thanks Tracker.
I wonder if that is recomended on the 1911 magazine.
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I don't know but it makes sense to sync up the recoil spring with the magazine spring.
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Clark said nothing about the magazine spring and I failed to ask also.
One thing they did do was heap a lot of praise onto Johnny Rowland for the basic design. I never looked into it before as I thought it was another one of these deals where "you send me your gun and $1200 and we will make it a magnum".
I really do not think that the slide velocity is changing that much that you need to change the mag spring. The comp is on there more to add weight to the slide/barrel combination than to reduce recoil. You can't do it with springs alone. The recoil reduction and reduced muzzle flip are just a bonus.
All in all a pretty slick setup. That Clark group is a real shootin bunch and Clay said they all shoot them.
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All in all a pretty slick setup. That Clark group is a real shootin bunch and Clay said they all shoot them.
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Well for $360 to get that kind of horsepower no wonder IMO. Just the sight of the beast with the compensator on a 1911 and then the BOOM adds a bit of out of the norm experience to the day. All in all, it seems like a lot of bang for the buck. Wah Wah Wah
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It will definitely give pause and cause heads to turn at the range.
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You otta see stares when I pull this one out.
You load this up to 50,000 CUP
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The 460 Rowland kit came in from Clark today and looks good. It does not "drop in" but that does not surprise me.
I do not feel capable myself to fit it so I will drop it off at the Gunsmith on Monday. It does not look like it will take much to me.
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Will the kit go on a Combat Elite or a Delta Elite?
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I am putting it on a Combat Elite. A Delta Elite would work with an extractor change.
I tried 'dry fitting' the barrel into the slide without the spring and everything looked good. The hood fit right in and everything seemed fine. When I tried sliding the frame on, the barrel is hitting something and will not go on fully. I don't know if the barrel lug is hitting something or the locking lugs are not letting the barrel go up high enough. I just don't know enough about it to mess with it.
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Looking forward to the update and pics.
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I did not get to the Gunsmith's yesterday but I dropped everything off this afternoon.
He found the trouble right away. The hood is not fitting up correctly and needs to be shorten on one side. The way it is, the barrel lug cocks to one side as you try to slide it into the frame. I hope that is all it needs.
He said he would get at it later this week, but you know how Gunsmiths are. ;)
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The Gunsmith still has not got my Rowland barrel fitted, says he is getting close now.
Josh, I do not know if this is a good deal or not.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=523930028
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Thanks MRC. The 200 rounds makes that ugly as sin gun :) not a hateful deal IMO.
I already have a G21 though so it may not make the most sense for me.
Thanks though. Looking forward to your report and pics and perhaps your opinion on the ballistics of the Rowland round.
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Got my 460 Rowland back from the Gunsmith today. His "by the end of the week" turned out to be 4 weeks, oh well.
Everything is tight as can be. He says it should shoot like a S.O.B.
Here's some pics.(http://)
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That pony just became a stallion.
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That pony just became a stallion.
Now, will he gallop? Not too bad looking IMO either. Not for what it is.
I can't wait to hear the report. I may be able to hear the report here in Indiana. Hehe.
What does the muzzle energy of that round look like out of the specific barrel length you have obtained?
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The 185 grain bullets moving at 1575 fps are at 1020 ft-lbs, it goes down from there.
Here is an interesting article on it by Taffin shooting a Clark Conversion.
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt460r.htm
Josh - I see that they are now putting out 960 Rowland Conversions for 9mm Glocks. Sounds like they are using 9X23 Win brass which can be loaded to 50,000 psi. 115 gr bullets at 1600 fps.
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Here's one on the 1911 forum if anyone else wants to do it.
It can be found here:
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=548185
Clark .460 Rowland 1911 Barrel and brass
I have for sale an excellent condition Clark Custom 460 Rowland Comp Barrel with bushing link and link pin. This barrel has about 120 rounds down the pipe and was an excellent shooter in my SA. This barrel will also include a 20 and 24lb recoil spring, Clark full length guide rod and reverse plug and 245 pieces of new brass. Please email with any questions. I can accept paypal as a gift or postal money orders as payment and will include free priority shipping in the continental US. $285 Thank You, Colby
ocotillo_outfitting @t H0tma1l d0t c0m