Author Topic: The pocket pistol I do favor would have  (Read 8282 times)

wilco

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The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« on: May 20, 2004, 09:58:05 PM »
cost me $3000 if I hadn't done the smithing myself.  I wouldn't pay anything like that much for it, actually, but I would pay $1000 for it, if I had to. As it was, it cost me about $450, counting the spare mags and the luminous sights, but also about  30 hours of my time.  It is a cocked and locked SA auto, 6.3" long, 19 ozs, single stack, including the beavertail tang on the frame.

Offline skinnygun

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2004, 11:47:31 PM »
Hi wilco , do you have a picture you could post and the gun or frame model you started with?How many rounds in mag?Thanks.

wilco

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2004, 12:48:10 AM »
It starts as a $200 Star BM 9mm compact, all steel.  Tim LaFrance used to charge about  $1500 to "chop" one of these, to 6" and  20 ozs.  I went much further with the idea, bobbing the hammer spur, welding on a ducktail tang to the frame, to protect the cocked hammer, adding luminous sights, stippling, ambi safety, 1911 style firing pin retainer trigger job to the gun.  The rear sight is moved forward, the  top and rear of the slide are "bobbed" ala Detonics, and severaly rounded off. A similar rounding is done with the front of the slide. This is all in the name of comfort and non snagging draw from the Kydex pocket rig. Velcro on the rig and in the pocket secures the rig, lets the same rig fit all pants and coat pockets, and keeps the gun in the same place and orientation, for speed of draw.

  The mag holds  6 rds, of 356 TSW ammo, using a very short, very lw, very high velocity, 3 segment prefrag bullet.  55 grs,  2200 fps,  600 ft lbs, with the same recoil as plus P 115 gr 9mm jhp ammo.  The mag catch is moved to the butt, so that the bottom rear of the trigger guard can have a Firestar-like "sinus", which lets you get all fingers on the front strap.  A ppk type finger extention is on the bottom front of the mag. Sorry, no pics of mine, but the "Nova" 9mm by LaFrance can sometimes be found on the Net, with pics.

OAL is 6.3", wt is 20 ozs, and a skilled hand can lay all 7 rds on the chest, at  10 ft, in 1 second flat. That time starts with the first shot, so the "splits" of repeat shots is .17 second.  4200 ft lbs per second is equal to mag 12 ga buckshot, or a bolt action 300 Win Mag, in terms of power on target. Each hit creates 3 separate wound channels, so you get  21 holes thru the guy.

It would be rather silly to waste that much destruction on the chest of one man, of course. If a swift "double" to the chest doesn't work, more probably wont, either. so it's time for the head shot.  This pocket pistol and load, however, make you really capable of stopping a couple of punks, even if they are wearing body armor. If you are wearing armor, youcan probably stop them, even if they have guns "out" and aimed at you, and you "just' have your hand in your pocket. :-)

From a hand in pocket start, if you start first, there's no reaction time burden upon you. So you can draw, go Weaver.,and get the first chest hit in ..40 second. The first guy will probably be unable to react, decide to fire, and also hit you that fast. The second guy will be hard pressed to do more than hit you once, and your armor will probably handle it, letting you hit him, too.

would you "think" the same of a .38 snub, and no armor, hmm?

Offline DDGator

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2004, 10:57:29 AM »
Again -- this is more graphic than necessary to explain a gun.

Do you own this gun?  This thread is useless without a picture.
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wilco

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2004, 11:18:09 AM »
And just why is that the case, hmm? Because you have so little gun knowledge and imagination,or what?

Offline shooterjb

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2004, 12:10:42 PM »
Hi Wilco,

Once again, I just can't help asking,

I would love to see a photo of your gun. It sounds great. I have never seen anything like what you are describing and I have been playing this game far longer than most. I also hope that I never become involved in a gunfight like the one that you describe, since I don't think that Steven Segal, John Wayne and Clint Eastwood combined could survive it. Maybe James Bond could, but he would have to be using a Rohrbaugh R9S.

I am pretty familiar with the disaster that the FBI suffered in Miami with Platt and Madix. In addition to the TV movie that you apparently saw, I also had the opportunity to watch the FBI recreation and critique of the incident featuring Miami Dade Metro Officers in the starring roles. The FBI concluded that they made seven mistakes during the incident and made recommendations to correct them in future similar encounters. Do you know what the seven mistakes and/or recommendations were? It has been at least 10 years since I reviewed the video tapes, so please help me to refresh my memory.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2004, 12:31:51 PM by shooterjb »

wilco

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2004, 01:00:50 PM »
They didn't have sense enough to have their pistols still holstered, when they rammed Platt's car. They didn't wear their body armor. They didn't have AP ammo, nor  auto-rifles, KNOWING that they were trying to ambush guys who favored longarms for armed robberies, and who were proven killers. They didn't have enough sense to wear straps on their eyeglasses, and thus, lost them when they rammed Platt's car.  They didn't have ear protection ready, either the cast in ear type plugs, the "sonic-earvalve", plugs, or electronic earmuffs. They didnt have any more sense than to have revolvers, or the underpenetrating  158 gr lhp .38 special loads. Most of them didn't have backup guns, and when they lost their "main" gun, due to injury or other mishap, they were then unable to do squat. Basically, they didn't do much of anything correctly, and they paid the price for their ineptitude. You "think" you know more than me, about ANY aspect of guns or gunfighting?  :-) what a laugh.

wilco

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2004, 01:01:47 PM »
Tony LaFrance, the San Diego gunsmith, was offering his "Nova" chop of the Star BM way back in 1980, so you aint been around much, bud.

Offline DDGator

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2004, 03:12:10 PM »
Say goodnight, Wilco...

I warned you.  As for you comments regarding my discretion in locking down threads -- I am quite happy with the way this forum is going, with the exception of one problem -- which I am taking care of right now.

I know who you are and the problems you have caused on other forums.  You are banned.  Don't come back.

Over and OUT.

Duane (DDGator)
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Offline flyandscuba

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2004, 03:13:44 PM »
Thanks!!!!
I'm not a gun expert -- but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...


Offline shooterjb

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2004, 03:25:54 PM »
Hi Wilco,

I was very interested in your reply to my post. It set in stone my opinion of you and your expertise. At the time of the Miami shootout, the FBI recreation and critique of the incident were widely distributed amongst law enforcement. It is still used in training. Of course, you previously made your opinions clear concerning Peace Officers. You made some good guesses about the Miami incident, but were not even close concerning the recommendations that the FBI made. and their analysis of the situation.. I still follow the FBI recommendations that came out of that shooting every day. I will be ignoring all of your future posts. By the way, are you the guy I see at the gun shows wearing the long black trench coat? Maybe instead of posting on this board, you should be posting on one of the Phsych Help boards?

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2004, 04:39:55 PM »
Hopefully shooter .... he won't be back ... and I daresay has moved on to try on another unsuspecting audience - until his unmistakeable style drops the penny - again!

Watch out tho Duane ... he does have a habit of using numerous email addy's and sneaking back under another handle. :-)
Chris - R9S
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Offline pocketman

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2004, 11:32:51 PM »
Good riddions...I reconized him immedately.

He goes back to the old shooters forum 5 years ago.  

Offline Mr_Jody_Hudson

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2004, 11:38:08 PM »
Thanks!  
Delaware Real Estate = http://www.Kate-Jody.com

Offline GeorgeH

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Re: The pocket pistol I do favor would have
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2004, 12:08:45 PM »
Duane, thank you.