Author Topic: Preventable Tragedy?  (Read 4936 times)

Offline dr16

  • Sharpshooter
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2005, 11:21:23 AM »
I truly wish that it was possible to say "thanks but no thanks" to a jury summons in Fulton County (or any other for that matter). If you do that, some folks with guns escort you to stand in front of the judge that you "dissed" and explain your actions.

I have had three in the past five years. The last one I received on the Friday before last Fridays murder rampage.

With my law enforcement background, I thought that I would not be called much less serve - WRONG!

To add to the problems in the Fulton County Court, the only armed personel allowed in the court  are the Fulton County Sheriffs Deputies and the Fulton County Prosecuters Investigators.

The pucker factor is very high while trying to get from the parking building (where one of the four jihackings took place) across the street (where Sgt. Teasley was gunned down) to the court house.

I'm not looking forward to being in that situation again on March 28th when I must next appear for jury duty.

I am thankful to those before me that sacrificed all that they did so that I can fuss about appearing and to have the opportunity to serve - I would prefer to be availed the opportunity of self protection while there.


Offline aircop_m

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2005, 02:22:37 PM »
I really get upset when I hear stories like these, about the innocent people getting killed by some loser, when a CCW authorized person might have prevent it, or at least saved a few of the victims. I'm a LEO, but I will say this, and take it for what it's worth.

If you carry a gun legally in your state under a CCW, carry it at all times. Short of a medal detector or hand search, no one knows you're carrying. Do you think a jury would have convicted someone who had a CCW in that church, if they'd stopped that nut? I doubt it ::)

Offline FireBreather01

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2005, 04:20:03 PM »
Living in WI as I do it is a tough call to make as to being armed. Without CCW I would be breaking the law anytime I carry but with news like this it just pushes me to make the obvious choice. The NRA and other groups are just waiting for a 'test case' due to a recent WI Supreme Court decision in which the justices all but begged for CCW legislation. That, and the fact that our state constitution guarantees RKBA would make for an interesting outcome. If the test case is me, so be it!!!

I now rely on the 'Doctrine of Competing Harms' - whereby one is allowed to break the law in the rare instance that following it would result in great bodily harm or death to innocents if the law is kept.
Attitude is Everything
NRA Lifer, Instructor

Offline theirishguard

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2707
  • In Memoriam: 1941 to 2013
    • irishguardfirearmsltd.com
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2005, 05:04:02 PM »
In Texas before CCW became legal many carried anyway. Including judges, attorneys,doctors, salesmen and various business people. It was not a big deal back then. Something to be said about carrying ALL the time.  Tom
Tom Watson, DVC , Quis Separabit ,  Who dares wins, Utrinque Paratus

Offline Wayne

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 129
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2005, 08:17:39 PM »
May judges still carry (in the courtroom, that is).  "Professional courtesy".  Too bad for the rest of us.  :-/

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2005, 08:37:28 PM »
I make a thing of this I know - but, if you can CCW - then DO it - all the time that you can.  I am probably 100 times safer than many - and work from home etc - very low risk.  But I still carry 16/7.  I am not possessing of any pre-cognitive powers.

Furthermore, another point - when it is there all time - there is no awful surprise, as you reach for it - only to find - ''oops, left it off today''!!  I regard mine as I do a wrist watch.  I can always check time - I can always access my piece.

Further (boring) reiteration ... to consider.

"Do not assume."

"Expect the unexpected."

"You cannot make appointments for emergencies."
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline BillinPittsburgh

  • Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 357
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2005, 10:33:05 PM »
Learned today that the initial attack on the 51 year old lone female deputy who was transporting the guy in Atlanta was caught on camera - and two deputies were supposed to be watching that camera but apparently weren't.  Quite a lesson here about entrusting your safety to others, and I'd hate to be the two who were supposed to be watching the camera.
Gentleness can only be expected from the strong.  Ancient Chinese proverb.

Offline dr16

  • Sharpshooter
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2005, 11:41:09 AM »
Two more things came out today:

1. The custodial deputy had followed proceedure and locked her weapon in a locker before she unshackled Nichols. That was when he attacked her, beat her, took the key to the locker and got the gun. All on tape and supposedly monitored.

2. Nichols then went to the target judge's courtroom, judge hits the hidden panic button. Nichols then  does the judge in the back of the head and then the  court reporter. One timeline has the first response to the panic button to be ten minutes, where upon the responder is disarmed by Nichols. Nichols then exits the premises with two guns.


About two dozen Atlanta and other jurisdiction officers were in the grand jury room where they were gathered, unarmed with their weapons locked up while they waited being called to their various cases. When the alarm went off, they were abandoned, unarmed, while their "guards" responded.

Have no fear, because the high sheriff announced that he is going to form a committee to study security measures at the courthouse.

Offline Wayne

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 129
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2005, 08:58:11 PM »
It gets much worse.  I'm not clear if it was the same panic alarm, but some type of silent alarm was pressed by one of the deputies.    The person monitoring the silent alarm immediately contacted the deputy to verify he didn't sound the alarm by accident.  It is not clear if Nichols himself responded to the call by indicating is was an error, or instructed the officer to do so.  Either way, the alarm was cancelled.  They're investigating this also.

It was a 51 year old 5' 0" female who was guarding a 6' 33 year old ex-college football player in excellent shape.  While no one was monitoring the camera, she was getting attacked for 3 full minutes.  That's a long time to be getting assaulted.

When the investigation is finished, there will be many unbelievable lapses in common sense and judgement.  Like why would a female officer be present while a male suspect was undressing?  Why didn't she just exercise good judgement and ask for someone to back her up?  Again, these are people that are responsible for your protection in the court.

I think Chris has it nailed.

Offline dr16

  • Sharpshooter
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: Preventable Tragedy?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2005, 10:55:33 PM »
This will all be on my mind when I answer a jury duty summons in the very same Fulton County Court House on March 28.   ::)

Sure wish it was in the jurisdiction of my old department. I had full confidence in our court security proceedures.