Author Topic: 08 elections  (Read 5018 times)

Offline theirishguard

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2005, 02:24:33 PM »
RichardS, enough said!!!! ::)
Tom
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Offline Newt

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2005, 10:32:02 AM »
Lets keep our eye on the Congress! We need to keep Republicans in charge of it no matter what happens to the Presidencey. :-X
No matter how you struggle and strive, you will never get out of this world alive.

Offline theirishguard

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2005, 11:03:04 AM »
Newt, I agree, but lets not give up on the President.
Tom
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Offline Newt

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2005, 06:00:15 PM »
I won't give up Tom but I'm afraid that after a two term Republican president the sometimes crazy electorate will make a change " just because", after all we are in the age of the absence of common sense. It is,IMO, critical to keep control of the House and Senate. :P :-/ :D
No matter how you struggle and strive, you will never get out of this world alive.

Offline theirishguard

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2005, 07:56:00 PM »
If the wicked witch of NY gets in we are all in trouble, and I mean all of us. We need another swift boat crew.... like the Ark State Police & etc.
Tom
















Tom Watson, DVC , Quis Separabit ,  Who dares wins, Utrinque Paratus

Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2005, 01:28:52 PM »
Gramps

I can relate to your post on Unions,  I was in plenty of Union controled shops..   I always asked these *Union guys*,  "How would you like to have the Union Organizers show up at the door of your place of business?"  

''PC'' comments expected.
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Offline Gramps

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2005, 03:21:38 PM »
   Well, to tell you the truth. I brought my small company into the  IBEW Local union by choice. My shop wasn't organized. I had been a small electrical contractor for almost 10 years when I decided to join and called them up. I had been hiring men off the street for years, all of them with book smarts, but most of them had no "work" smarts. The quality of work I could get from them was not the craftsmenship I was looking for. There didn't seem to any emphasise on work "quality" at any of the trade schools they had attended. When I signed up the Local took the two youngest men that worked for me, and placed them in the apprenticeship program; the remainder were required to take wireman night courses at the apprentice school, twice a week for a year. The courses were paid for by the Local but on the mens time. The men were then given the Journeyman Wiremans exam after one year. If they passed they received an "A" card and were classified as Journeymen. The one man that didn't pass the exam had to attend review classes until the next testing period. He passed that exam and was given his "A" card.
   The wage scale was close to what I was already paying but benefits were higher, to me it was well worth it. I have no complaints about the IBEW Local workers at all. The men that I pulled out of the hiring hall were good mechanics, they gave me a good days work and with craftsmen quality in the installation. I had a heart attack later on and the Local did it's best to help me stay in business. It sent a man to run my work while I was in the hospital and other union shops sent me small jobs to keep things going for me while I healed. When I finally closed my shop down it was no fault of the union. All of my remaining men were given work at other shops. I was given work at a medium sized shop, were I was a foreman for 4 years, until I quit that shop.
   My problems are with the present administration of the Local. They managed to get themselves elected into place by an extremely small majority and have managed to stay in office with that small majority. They are hard core Democrats, straight party supporters and voters on all issues. They dislike the NRA immencely; though many of the wiremen in the Local are NRA Life members. I have to admit I also haven't done anything to endear myself to them. I've worked for and supported union members that have run against them in the past two elections.
  I personally vote for who I think will represent me better on issues I beleave in. That may be a Republican, a Democrat, or an Independent. When they do not do as they say they will; I work to vote them out of office. If they work and do as I like , I work hard and support them to keep them in office. We had a Democratic State Senator that I voted for and supported for many years. He was extremely pro 2nd Admenedment, more so than many Republicans. He retired and we lost a doggone good man to represent us on firearm issues.
   I also know of several Republican workers that do the same things, that have been done to me, to Liberals that they work with or around. It isn't just a one party thing going on.

Gramps
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Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2005, 05:59:04 PM »
I can't remember even one good experience with a Union. I worked all over the U.S.for 15 years, as a Field Installation Engineer.  We always used Local Contractors and the ''Bid process'' to man the jobs.
  
 I've had more than a few site visits from the local BA's in several States, trying to tell me how many men to hire and other  attempts of coercion.  Apparently just bluffs, attempting to gain control of the job. I learned very fast, just  how they worked , and gathered a few methods to push back with.  
 Although I never had any action taken against me or the Companies I represented , I feel lucky to be alive today.

I'm sure there are some fair minded union people out there, it's just that I have never met many.
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Offline Gramps

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2005, 08:21:08 PM »
   I've worked 24 years in open shops and 15 years in union shops. I've had my own business and worked for others. I been lucky enough to have seen the good and bad on both sides. There are many union people that are good, honest, hard working people. They do beleave in and support their unions though. Then again along with the good, you have the bad.
    The union business agents primary job is to get his members work. Some of them can be real rectums doing it. I had many a run in with them when I was open shop, most of them unpleasent. But I understood that they were doing what they were elected and payed to do. Like you, I learned to work around them.
    I also have several aquaintences that have businesses. After watching how some of them treated their employees, I could understand how a couple of them ended up being organized by unions. Let's face it, if you mistreat or cheat your employees you run the risk of them banding together against you. It is their legal right to do so.
   If you were dealing with the Pipefitters, Operating Engineers, IronWorkers, or ANY union official from NYC I can well understand your fearing for your life. I had a run in with a fella representing a large union in NYC once. He told me it would be in my best interest to leave for home that day. From the look on his face and from what local workers warned me, I decided leaving was the best choice. I packed my tools up and headed back to the midwest that afternoon. It may be judged cowardly, but I figured I was better off at home unemployeed than part of a trash landfill in New Jersey.
  Except for the present administration, I do feel that the IBEW Local here has given me more than a fair shake as an employeer and an employee. Just my opinion...and opinions are like belly buttons, we all have them. ;D

Gramps

PS. Did you happen to receive my holster order yet? :D

    
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Offline tracker

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2005, 10:22:56 PM »
IMHO, unions are like politics, the stock market, and
anything else that is structured where emotions and
psychology come into play--eventually, even though it
may take many years, everything reverts to the mean
and is self correcting; no extra charge for this observation.

Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2005, 10:24:00 PM »
PM SENT
------------------

The "BOYS" could get scary at times,  they do play Mind Games.. Once In Little Rock, I was butting heads with the Pipe Fitters Steward on a daily basis.
 One morning, I came out of my Motel room, got in the car, it was filthy, as it was the rainy seaon there.  Just as I was turning the key to start the car, I had a memory flash of two clean spot on the leading edge of the hood,  someone had been under the hood !!   Well, I got off off the key before, the starter engaged,  did a thorogh search all under every thing, found nothing.  The thought that I might have found something that goes BOOM, had been planted in my mind..

I see you are from Missouri, ...  St Louis is one place I refused to work a job,   it was the worst place to work *Union* at the time..    The "BOYS" can play rough at times...
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Offline Gramps

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2005, 11:29:47 PM »
Yeap!
   St.Louis is a strong union city, but you can still get by. I worked open shop there for 16 years. Sometimes they don't just play mind games, they do things. Fella I lived next door to for a couple of years was a "thumper" for the fitters. Was sent to prison for a few years. His wife received a "pay check" every week until he was released. I live away from the city, don't like it or the politics there. When I moved out here 36 years ago this area was country. Now it's suburb.

Gramps
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Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: 08 elections
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2005, 11:01:11 AM »
''Sometimes they don't just play mind games, they do things. ''    Gramps


Yes, that is what makes the *GAMES* work,  You never know when it may be for 'REAL'.

One of their 'Mind Game Stories' told to me was of a 'Factory Ref', much like myself, would not Play Ball, so they prepared a TRICK,   On the job there was a big Culvert used as a passage way.  A temporary cover was welded on one end and another was prepared for the other end.  The Factory guy went in to inspect and the second end was rapidly closed.  

The story goes, he spent a few hours there..
RJ=