Author Topic: Softpoints?  (Read 6312 times)

Offline Erich

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2005, 10:39:24 PM »
Hi Gary,

A buddy of mine posted some chrono results over on the S&W Forum with the DT loads this week. Thought you might like to see them:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=884106832&f=695107034&m=889102678&r=623101388#623101388

He ran them through a PM9 (which has a very similar barrel length to the R9s, though the Kahr's is polygonally rifled and therefore should pick up some velocity), among other guns.

It appears that the Double Taps are somewhat too hot for the Rohrbaughs!  :o

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2005, 11:35:52 PM »
Gary - good news - try tho not to ''push'' the pup thru too much ammo in one sitting - without doing a strip and clean and relube.

It is indeed for most - only when you see the pup close up you see the fine engineering there is.
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Garish

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2005, 12:10:33 AM »
My thanks to all who have responded.  I will let you know the results of my tests.  I will learn the cleaning proceedure tomorrow and practice disassembly and assembly.  I will take the cleaning equipment to the range with me and clean regularly.  As I do not know how much time it takes to strip, clean, and reassemble, I do not know if I will clean between each type of ammo.  I usually like to do this, then fire 2-3 clearing rounds, then shoot groups, then clean and on to the next type.  However, some pistols ust take too long to clean to do it that frequently.  I shall see and let you know.  Thanks again,  Gary...

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2005, 12:22:43 AM »
Your only real challenge initially Gary is the pin.

I don't know how much you have read but we have had numerous threads on take down.  Make sure you have a suitable punch and small hammer - a suitable soft base on which to rest gun when driving pin out and - something like a chopstick to hold slide back at required point.

Reassembly is harder but something that practice makes easier.  Do not be dismayed if first attempt ot two seem grim!!! :P  I promise - it gets easier.

Good luck.
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Garish

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2005, 10:57:26 AM »
I have not even read the directions as of yet.  I will search for assembly and disassembly on this forum.  I appreciate your providing this information as I would not have automatically taken these things to the range.  However, I would have practiced before going - I have learned the hard way!

I hope to go to the range tomorrow.  Today is scheduled pretty much (home projects) but I will read up and practice the take down and assembly procedures several times.  Gary...

Offline Garish

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2005, 08:03:27 PM »
Well, good news and more good news.  The R9S is one of the few pistols I have purchased over the years which I came away from my first range practice feeling even better about the purchase than when I wanted it (no buyer's remorse here!).

I practiced the disassembly-assembly 5 times and had it down, for now at least.  The pin was not hard to push out using hand pressure, no hammer needed.  The recoil spring assembly was difficult to get lined up until I tried leaving the barrel out, pushing the end of the assembly through the hole, compressing the spring, and then sliding the barrel into position.  Only have one small blood blister!  I did decide not to strip and clean at the range as the parts seemed to fly away all too often and I did not want to loose them in the dirt.

My subjective evaluation of the recoil was that it was not bad at all.  I do fire the 454 Casull in the Freedom Arms pistol and that is painful!!  I also fire a 500 S&W and it seems distinct but far from painful.  The only 44 and 357 magnums which seem to have much recoil are the S&W scandium/titianium ones.  The R9 was a dream, not near what I thought it would be.

The pistol does twist in my hand.  It needs some form of abrasive something on the front strap especially.

i fired 68 rounds total.  It failed to feed a total of 5 times, 3 of which occurred within the first 10 rounds.  The other two I think were a result of not tapping the magazine to seat the cartridges back in the magazine.  Also, I was not being careful about hitting the nose of the bullet on the bottom side of the magwell when insterting the mag.  I corrected these two things and no more malfunctions of any kind.

I fired the following loads (why, because that was all that was available in standard loadings, not +P or +P+, at the sporting goods stores near me):

Winchester Silvertips 115 gr.  = 1 3/16"
                              147 gr.  = 1 7/16"

Winchester Supreme 147 gr. SXT  = 1 1/16"

Speer Gold Dots in 115 gr.  = 2 7/16"
                          124 gr.  = 1 10/16"
                          147 gr.  = 2 10/16"

Federal Classic Hydro-Shock 115 gr.  = 3"             1 key hole
                                       147 gr.  = 1 10/16"     5 keyholes

Federal Premium Hydro-Shockl 124 gr.  = 1 9/16"
                                           135 gr.  = 2 3/16"
                                           147 gr.  = 2"          2 key holes

I fired with a supported left arm at a target 15' away (but not on a rest as I wanted to measure center of impact vs. center of hold w/o a rest changing the center of impact), 6 shot groups, and measured the best 5 to account for my lack of control (I had several called flyers so went with best 5 in all cases).

Center of impact was high and left of center of hold on all groups except the Winchester Silvertip 115 gr. and the Winchester Supreme SXT 147 gr. which were both at the same point.

Conclusions:
1. The R9 is a GREAT pistol of its type!
2. For me the recoil is over rated but I am accustomed to shooting large bore magnums.
3. Again, for me the difficulty in disassembly-assembly is also over rated but I have been taking pistols apart for 40 years.
3. This pistol does need checkering, abrasive tape, or stippling at least on the front strap if not on both the front and rear straps.
4. The best ammo in my pistol for both group size and center of impact were Winchester Silvertip 115 gr. and Winchester Supreme SXT 147 gr.  Head and shoulders above the rest.  Was this pistol designed using these loadings?
5. I have no reservations about highly recommending this pistol.

My hat is off to the Brothers Rohrbaugh for designing and producing a very fine pistol!!

Gary...

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2005, 08:18:37 PM »
Gary - thx for the report and I am most pleased it went well. :)

I also shoot 454 and big stuff so like you do not find the R9 intimidating or viscious but I would still stand by my description of ''aggressive'' or maybe not overly comfortable.  Manageable tho - yes for sure.  What else would we expect from a diminutive 9mm!

I was lucky today and got some grip tape from a large WalMart - and will be adding a front and rear strip to my carry R9 - I do agree, that slight increase in hold will make all the difference.  With a grip that small - I reckon it would help anyone - more so maybe those of us with large hands.

Well - ''first blood" - welcome to the club :)
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Garish

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2005, 08:37:21 PM »
Thanks Chris,

It did go very well.  I will go to WalMart here and see if they have the tape.  I think that will be my first step.  If this works then I will consider other, more attractive ways.  However, if I can get the tape to look good I will stick with it (no pun intended ;).  If I were to get the grip stippled or checkered then there would be refinishing as well.  I think the cost will make this unwise, at least at this time.  I agree with the term "aggressive" but far from uncontrolable much less painful.  Have you found any grips that will help tame the Freedom Arms 454 Casull?  I have tried many grip manufacurers and none make a grip which would keep the trigger guard from brusing the bone in my middle finger.

Gary...

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2005, 09:11:10 PM »
Gary - re the grip tape - the stuff I got was actually 2" - bigger than I need and so will cut out the shapes I want - plus probably way more length on roll than needed.  One of the other guys (Bill, Dave?) mentioned Ace Hardware and that was a 1" I think by 3M.  Mine is sporting the Ducktape label.

My .454 platforms are not Freedom Arms - I have the Raging Bull and long barrel SRH - I like the latter more overall but must say the grip on the Taurus is a bit more comfortable.  IIRC the trigger guard on your FA is a bit ''Blackhawk'' in shape?

No idea what grip to suggest but have you explored Hogue and Pachmayr offerings".  I think trigger guards on cannons are most common cause of pain!  These are my two Casull beasts!










And this is the "Raging Lunatic" - when all ''lit up'' :D  Been posted a few times, so old hat to many.


Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Garish

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2005, 10:20:30 PM »
Yes, it is similar to the Blackhawk but not enough that a grip could be modified.  I have tried Hogue but not Pachmayr.  I will look on their site.  The Freedom Arms is a piece of fine work, just the bite is bad.  It is very accurate.  When I had my original one I tore up several "magnum proof" scopes.  All were replaced several times and I finally quit.  I am sure they make stronger scopes now.  However, I still need a pair of great grips.

Nice pictures.  How do you upload pictures into your responses?

Gary...

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2005, 12:17:56 AM »
First off - just realized I am guilty (again) of some thread drift - sorry folks :)

Gary - you will need to have pics hosted somewhere - photobucket, imageshack or something like that.  I have two servers so can host my own stuff easily.

The pic url's are then enclosed with in ''img'' tags (what you get when you click on the wee lil' picture icon above reply message box).

Re scopes etc - knock on wood, Raging Bull scope still functional and also the Millet Red Dots on SRH but - danged if i know how they survive the immense shock ;D
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Garish

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2005, 12:49:16 AM »
Sorry Chris, you lost me about the pics but that is easy these days.

I was surprised, but I do not know why as this seems to always happeen with each firearm, that the R9 likes certain ammo.  I still wonder if the Bros Rohr' built the pistol for Winchester ammo.


Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2005, 01:28:44 AM »
Worry not Gary - if you want to post pics badly let me know - maybe even a chat on phone will help you out.  Just shout.

Well - for most of the time the Gold Dots have been favorite tho Karl does IIRC seem to mention Silver Tips for his preference.

In fact I doubt it really matters other than an individual's gun digesting any particular type reliably.

If you have looked at my FAQ (link in sig) - I tested quite a bit of ammo and IMO the GD's were best for uniform expansion and - for me - best in gun.
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Garish

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2005, 05:36:26 AM »
I have saved the groups and can easily take digital pics.  IF you think seeing the groups would help anyone than I will talk with you on the phone to learn how to upload them.  If not, then for now I do not need send photos of anything else.

What does IIRC and IMO mean?  Sorry, I am new.

Gary...

Offline Richard S

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 5772
  • Nemo me impune lacessit.
Re: Softpoints?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2005, 08:00:31 AM »
Gary:

If I haven't welcomed you to the Forum, I do so now, and thank you for your informative range report.

IIRC = "if I recall correctly."
IMO = "in my opinion."

Subject to correction, I think these and other abbreviations got their real start as a form of shorthand for text messaging.
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"