Author Topic: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?  (Read 3752 times)

Offline Paveway

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Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« on: October 13, 2006, 02:27:21 PM »
Yes, I noticed that my grip screws were lose after firing the gun. I tightened them up, but I was wondering if it would be ok to put just a pinhead size drop of loctite on the screw threads (one at a time, of course) and run them in.

I did this once to a S&W 622 .22 automatic rear adjustable sight once, because the entire rear sight kept coming loose and when I went to the range to fire it, the firing pin was loctited in place! :o I had to strip it and scrape all of the loctite off of the pin and housing. And I did NOT douse the screw in loctite then either, it was just enough to wet the threads. I was amazed at how it migrated to the firing pin! After I cleaned it up, it fired ok and the rear sight never came loose again.

That's why I'm just a little nervous about doing this......I'd hate to need to use the thing and it just goes click, or the trigger wont move or.....but then again, I would test fire again before calling it good.

What do you folks think about doing this? Warranty concerns?

Offline PursuitSS

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2006, 02:56:52 PM »
Considering how hard the grip screws can be to remove, I wouldn't! IF we could get TORX screws for our grips..........maybe then.

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Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2006, 06:48:02 PM »
My last chat with Eric pretty much confirmed no Torx screws - quite simply - too small.  

There is a trend tho to do away with Loctite due to the possibility of excessive screw removal difficulty.  I have experienced this myself.

On further reflection it strikes me that really all we need to do is add the screw check to our regular maintenance - so if the gun has been shot - then when cleaning, make sure screws are holding well - without over-torquing.

If then the gun is cleaned and checked and then carried - no problems, even if used in anger, as IMO the loosening only occurs thru useage.  I'll stress yet again - an Allen wrench MUST be good quality and so a good 0.0625 fit - cheapy ones may be undersize and will soon bugger the screw.

Add also - in my experience the front right screw is the typical one - tho lower right also needs checked - it is these that keep right panel in place, loosening of which can interfere with the smooth operation of the trigger transfer bar.  At worst the return spring could slip off its post.
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Offline Paveway

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2006, 08:29:42 PM »
I don't think that you would have a problem if you use the low torque loctite (I forget if it's the red, green or blue color...) but then again, with as small as the screws are I think that Elmer's glue would cause a problem!!!

The other thing I did not think of is what will the loctite do to the carbon fiber?

And no, I don't think a torx would be the solution. The problem is with the threads, not the driving mechanism for the screw. I would imagine that overtorquing the screws would strip the aluminium, and then you would be in real bad shape.

Do the brothers R have any torque specs for this screw? Maybe a couple of inch pounds? It cant be much considering the size of the screw threads which look like something from a grandfather clock. Do they heat treat the frames after milling to harden the milled/drilled/tapped areas? This could make a difference in the long term if you continuously re-tighten the screw threads, IMO.

If the screws come loose after a few months of banging around in my pocket I will have concerns. But if it's after some spirited hi round count shooting (which wont happen much after the break-in period) then I would agree that it's a routine maintenance issue. And yes, you should use the EXACT fit allen wrench. Don't try to cheat with something that "almost fits" or a jeweler's screwdriver! You'll be sorry!!

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2006, 08:37:57 PM »
I doubt Loctite will affect the CF - it is once formed pretty inert - apart from which I'd only expect the smallest amount to get on.

The type we were using was IIRC the blue 'medium'' - non hardening but securing.  Not sure if anything any ''softer''.

Re the threads in frame - well I'd say that we would be as much at risk of ruining the hex in the screw head, as over torquing to strip the threads in frame.  The frame is heat treated and pretty tough aircraft grade material.  Maybe not impossible but IMO highly improbable.

Not sure if any torque specs - probably not.  It is perhaps more case of cinch up to full resistance and then a final small ''tweak'' - hard to put that in ft lbs :)

I doubt loosening could occur in months of carry but would say anyways - in order to ensure that did not occur - a more regular check routine than every many months would be very sensible!  We need to check for lint build up etc for one thing - and so a quick ''feel'' of the screw tightness no big deal.
Chris - R9S
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Offline Paveway

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2006, 08:48:55 PM »
Quote
I Not sure if any torque specs - probably not.  It is perhaps more case of cinch up to full resistance and then a final small ''tweak'' - hard to put that in ft lbs :)

I doubt loosening could occur in months of carry but would say anyways - in order to ensure that did not occur - a more regular check routine than every many months would be very sensible!  We need to check for lint build up etc for one thing - and so a quick ''feel'' of the screw tightness no big deal.

Yes, that's true. It makes sense to do this during the lint check inspection. It starts to look like a clothes dryer filter in there after awhile. I discovered the loose screws just by using my thumbnail and wiggling the screwhead.

Notice that I stated INCH lbs, not foot lbs. I have an inch lb torque wrench that looks like a fancy anodized and knurled screwdriver from the days of when I worked on copying equipment and I would love to use this thing again. But maybe I'm getting too technical with this...
 :D

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2006, 08:56:49 PM »
Oops - I must read closer - haha - inch pounds!  Gotcha!
Chris - R9S
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Offline shakermountain

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2007, 03:18:45 PM »
[glb][/glb]I'm new to this forum - just ordered my first Pup two days ago, an Elite in Diamondcoat with sights. I'm A total newbie, both aghast and reveling in this forum and it's contents. Thanks to all for the crash education on what I hope will be more of a mental illness then a hobby.

Being a longtime Bike mechanic, antique restorer, locksmith, screw-turner-of-all-trades, I do have some observations to offer on Locktiting of screws. The blue 274 is supposed to require extra pressure to release when removing the fastener. Red  292 is supposed to require heat and/or special tools. I have never used the green, never needed it.

 Over the centuries I've been doing bike work (Eddie Mercx was "the guy" before Greg Lemond) Ive been involved in many a very serious "Pup-style" discussion on the tempermentalness, premature unexplained wear, loss of anodizing, fracturing in odd places, etc. of many an esoteric cycling component and frame material. So I'm right at home here with the R9. IMHO any machine designed to test the limits of size, OA weight, extreme functionability, user fanaticism, and even overuse/abuse will have to be tweaked mercilessly, especially in the first years of production. Much reverse engineering is required after in-the-field use (aka "guinea pigging" to those of us on the back side of the repair counter).

I digress (frequently).

To apply the locktite, use a pin or needle for small fasteners  - a toothpick for larger ones - to the male threads only! remove excess using a cotton swab so the threads look stained (not painted) with the fluid. Install the fastener, cleaning the excess as it squeezes out (a toothpick works well for this too). To remove: A thouroughly clean, low-temperature soldering iron with a pencil tip should carefully be used to warm the locktited fastener until the tiniest wisp of smoke is seen rising from it. The fastener, if smaller than 3mm or (size 6) is rotated 1/8 - 1/4 turn (usually counterclockwise but enough times not to check with manufacturer first), heated again for a moment, rotated 1/8 - 1/4 turn, and so on until free. This procedure helps insure against exceeding the elastic limit of the screw shank at it's minor diameter, often times just over 1mm!

Of course, larger fasteners may be treated more agressively, but care needs to be taken to not overheat the surrounding material, often expensively coated with Dupont Imron/Icron or the like - or in the case of our Pup's  - expensive Carbon Fiber Grips. Hope This suggestion is helpful. I've found many of the posts here very illuminating, and hope I can contribute more in the future.

Offline CaptBW

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2007, 12:28:50 AM »
shakermountain,

Your post is very illuminating, also. Thank you.
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Offline Aglifter

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Re: Loctite on grip screws-is it OK?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2007, 07:59:36 PM »
I ordered a supply of the loctite spec'd by Rohrbaugh -- 2240? -- and have never had a problem -- the spec'd stuff is very, very weak, and an industrial version of loctite.
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