Gloom, despair, agony on me..

[Michigunner]

No person is a bigger fan of the R9S than me.  Everything about it has been wonderful.

The only exception is painful recoil caused by the gun squirming in my hand.  That was completely cured by using abrasive tape.
  
I set out to purchase the finest gun on the market, paid the money, and therefore expect nothing but stellar performance.  The Rohrbaugh R9 has to always work perfectly, each and every time.  I don't think we should bury our head in the sand, and pretend otherwise.

The first time mine fails, I will ask the factory to please help solve  the problem, and will do everything possible to take corrective action.  If a reliable solution could not be achieved, then it will be sold immediately.  I would disclose everything to the buyer, of course.

I do concede that there seems to be a developing idea that the R9 works for some shooters, and fails for others.

I sincerely hope Jim will quickly find specific ammunition which will always function perfectly , absolutely each and every time.

Bill

[3425Centennial]

I suspect the "silent majority" will echo my sentiments:  the R9s has fired without flaw for most of us. It has a powerful kick. Its a small concealment weapon. That's its advantage. Its designed for a specific purpose.  Its not designed for target practice. How many times does one have to fire it in order to confirm that it is reliable? For improving  my shooting skills I prefer my Glock 17 or my HK P7M8. In my pocket, happily concealed rests the R9s, hopefully never to be used in anger.  Yes, I do believe that due to its size,and its kick, one's individual grip and hand control may affect its firing  in quick succession. Again, was it designed for that?  IMO it was realistically designed for self defense and firing at short distances  and probably not more than 2-3 shots at a time.  Those who claim FTF, let me ask: has it misfired on first firing? Has it failed to feed on the second or even the third shot? Or after four or five shots when your hand is in agony and your grip and technique are faltering?

[WoodstockDoug]

I'm not a big fan of recoil in a gun -- I avoid guns that kick too much.  Yet I haven't found the recoil in my R9 to be bad at all.  After 50 rounds (without skateboard tape on the grips, just the factory ones) I felt like I could easily do another 50.

Then I put the skateboard tape on the gun, and another range session of 35 rounds was also fine.

Both sessions were flawless.  I'll go out for a third session this weekend, I think, if it isn't snowing too hard here.

I don't know how much grip has to do with the R9's performance... I don't know how limp a limp wrist has to be to affect the performance of a gun, or if it matters what brand or color of panties I am wearing.  My Kel-tec has always been flawless.  My 340 PD has always been flawless.  My 1911 fails to chamber rounds regularly, but the spring is clearly tired and needs to be replaced.  My NAA Guardian .380 had some serious problems, but after I sent it back to the factory, it was flawless after that.  Every .22 I've ever fired has had problems, but they are unquestionably tied to the cheap bulk .22 ammo I plink with.

I agree that if I am struggling with someone, and have to fire the R9 with a 2 finger grip, it had better go bang that first time.  But if I have to keep shooting in that position without being able to get a better grip, I may have worse problems than a limp wrist or questionable fashion sense.  If I fired my 340PD with a two fingered grip while bent over backwards, I'd have to pick it up afterwards to fire it again, since THAT sucker has a kick to make Rambo whine, and I am a overweight-middle-aged schoolteacher and NOT a Special Forces Drill Instructor.

I certainly agree that if my R9 starts having failures, I will expect to fix it or sell it, and I sincerely doubt my grip, posture, excessive nose hair or terminal halitosis will have much to do with it.  But, like I said, I'm a couch potato with a carry permit, not a firearms expert, so I probably shouldn't have jumped in here at all.

Peace

[Michigunner]

For what it's worth, I believe the great majority of pistols are working fine.  There only seems to be a tiny handful of reports here about defects.

I remember that Tom has reported that his customers are all satisfied and have no problems.

Mine works great.  No sweat.  

You just get a little uneasy when pistols are returned from the factory and they still misbehave.

This is not Skyhook's first cruise.  He knows guns.

[TW]

>>Skyhook, et al…

I had a feeling I might receive the type of response I seem to be getting from my posts here.  I would like to think I'm being mis-read, at least in part, but maybe not.

To begin with - I NEVER said anything about grip being critical to whether or not the gun works.  What I SAID was that both the aftermarket pinky extension and slip on rubber grip provide me with better CONTROL, accuracy, and enjoyment of my R9s.

I did not insinuate nor do I support the idea that it's ok for the R9 to fail in any way.  Neither am I a “cheerleader” for failure or junk.  As matter of fact – since we seem to be getting personal here…by nature I tend to be rather critical about things, and people…probably more so than I should at times.  I also have a short fuse and can have a really bad temper, with an attitude and physique to back it up, as needed – not that this has anything to do with the function of the R9, and is probably considered by some to be just another case of “stealing a thread”.  No apologies offered.

What I DID intend to say is that for some people more than others and in the minority at this point, the R9 may require some experimentation, tinkering, and patience in order to prove reliable for them.  For some people, like myself, this may mean sending your gun back to the factory, or it could mean re-training to become proficient with it – such as following through with the special clean and lubing protocol of the R9, which you would never need with a Glock.  Or it could mean searching for and trying a wide variety of ammo in order to find just the one that works for you and spells reliability in your R9, like Speer Lawman or Silver Tips.  

Just as certain people may have shorter fuses than others when it comes to tolerance…some people may get bored and tired of the effort just because their Lawman HP won’t work in their R9, while they have been feeding their Glocks a steady diet of the stuff for years.  As far as I’m concerned – that’s ok.  I’m sorry to say the R9 or any other such specialty gun, may not have been the right choice for you in the first place, period.  That is exactly the reason why I have repeatedly gone out of my way in the past to invite folks considering this gun to join me at my range for a test drive – even offering some individuals a place to stay if traveling to do so.  Because there are still relatively few R9s out there I believe this type of opportunity is so important that I have taken my R9s to out of state shoots where individuals have expressed such interest in trying them out.  Do you really think I would go out of my way to do these things if I thought the R9 was a failure…?…does this make me a cheerleader for junk…?  For what it’s worth - to this day none of the people who have tried my R9s have experienced one failure of any kind, but maybe that’s just luck.

Not that it is my responsibility, but for those folks who have not found their R9s to be reliable, I am sorry to hear it and hope you are able to get to the bottom of the problem with satisfactory resolve as I have (seemingly).  And I’m sorry if you had to spend nearly a grand to find this out, often on top of a long wait to get it in the first place...TW<<  

[MountainMan]

All I can say is that I have two R9s (5##, 9##) - both have been absolutely perfect.

I have a Kal Tec - it is junk - can't do a mag without a FTF.  

Have a Colt 1911 that can only shoot FMJ without misfeeds.

I am sure there are those who have Kal Tec and  Colts that have been flawless and would take offense on this.

Only have use winchester silvertips and speer 115 GDHP.  Have no desire to try all different brands of ammo if I have found someting that works.

 Two R9s.   No grip tape - although I can see how it may make shooting more comfortable.  And once again absolutely perfect.

If your R9 is not working for you and sending it back to the factory did not work - then get rid of it.  The R9 is not for you, as the Kel Tec and the 1911 seems to not for me.  Get on with your life and get a gun that works for you and makes you happy.

I have no problem what-so-ever trusting my life to the R9 or the Seecamp.

[WoodstockDoug]

This thread has certainly drifted far from where it began, so I'm undecided whether to begin a new one or answer here.  But I'd prefer to post here because it is where the current discussion is.  My question is for Zamboni: I guess I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.  

If your first gun experienced so many problems, why haven't you sent it back to have it looked at?

And if you've already spent the $1,000 on the second one, why not take it home and try it out to see if it works?

Clearly you were willing to risk $2,000 to buy guns that you expected to be worth trusting your life to.  I guarantee you that there is not a gun model made by any manufacturer that is 100% perfect without anyone having problems.  Guns are like cars, refrigerators, or any other mechanical device -- some are outright lemons, some need some repair and some are perfect.  

I'm not "making excuses" or saying that mechanical problems are acceptible -- on the contrary, I expect a gun to work, and I'll take whatever steps necessary to get one that does -- fix it, or sell it and buy another.  Unless I'm reading your post wrong, you haven't tried to fix the first one (by sending it back), yet you still bought another, but you won't try the other to see if it is better?  I'm not flaming you or even attacking you, I just don't understand your reasoning.

Peace

[Skyhook]

Since this thread has 'drifted' back to its original issue and since the topic is of a sensitive nature to some ($1K/a whack can make one a bit alert), I will try to tone down this some.

Remember, my experience with the Speer Lawman was 10 shots-- perfect.. no FTF, no jamming. THAT's all I expect from my guns. I like keeping my expectations simple.

As for 'limp wristing' as a probable explanation... I can't imagine that. I'll keep more alert to the possibility, however, since I have rerad of that being a factor in other semis malfunctioning.

Another factor which makes me doubt the 'limp wristing' is that I fire my .454SRH frequently-- mostly with .45LC, but every session ends with 15rnds of full-house 300gr going downrange. If I was prone to 'limp wristing' I think that piece would have split my scalp by now. Not only that, but I have large hands and wire houses-- just finished a 3-story job downstate.

Anyhow, all emotion out and denied, I still have a clear problem with reliability and it would be foolish and disingenuous of me to say otherwise.

One of my 'other jobs' involved being an arbitrator (15 yrs) and I do know the steps to take and the requirements needed if an issue is in need of resolution. I am no stranger to conflict, even though I really prefer a simple life.

All I can say is I am really envious of you lucky guys with all those perfect R-9s... that's exactly what I wanted.

Too bad I don't believe in Santa any more... :-/

[MountainMan]

Zamboni and Skyhook - let me first say that I feel your pain.  I just read all of Zamboni's posts and read his excitment of getting the gun.  Then after a few hundred rounds there was a slide crack and it was sent back.  Then Zamboni disappeared from the forum.  There was no mentions of FTF until now.  That was SS# 531.   One of my two R9s was built the same time - numbers are two apart - and it has been perfect.  Would I be upset if I had continuous FTF - yes.

This gun just doesn't work for some people.  I know it is hard for someone to admit this that has many years of shooting experience, but that seems to be the case.

I really look up to Erich.  He has had several problems but he loved the gun so much he kept at it until he found a solution.  Erich finally realized that even though he is what I consider a handgun expert he just couldn't get the the gun to work for him without getting FTF.  Then he found that others shooting his gun didn't have problems.  So he found a solution that works for him and is one of the R9s biggest fans.

I just read recently that one of the Rohbaugh brothers said that a friend who is a competition handgun shooter just could not get the R9 to work.  When someone is having FTF problems and they send it back - and it is returned - I would assume that enough rounds was put through it on testing to list it as working well.   Then the person gets it back and can't put a mag through it without a FTF.  This tells me it is the ammo, shooter, or a combination of both.

I don't have the patience and expertise of Erich.  I would have sold the gun and gotten a PM9 or something else to try.  The same for Skyhook and Zamboni.  Yes it may be the gun - then again it may be the gun just doesn't work for you.  Either way the conculsion is the same.  

You are unhappy - so get rid of it, and as I said in the above post, get on with your life and try another gun.  I would do exactly that.

Whenever I use either of my two R9s they work fine.  Then again if they didn't I would first try different ammo and check my shooting methods.   If there was still a problem I would send them back for an evaluation.  When returned and I still had problems they would be history.  I suggest doing the same.  A few guns with problems have gotten a lot of press here - the vast majority have worked fine.  

Glocks have been praised up and down.  Don't talk to me about Glocks.  A malfuntioning Glock caused my bother to be shoot through the chest.  The only thing that saved him was the bullet glanced off his metal cross pen and missed his heart.  Didn't stop him having a quarter size exit hole in his back.  Are all Glocks bad - I am sure not but this one almost killed him.

So in conclusion I'm saying that you are not happy with the R9.  It has clearly been discussed in detail.  I still think that most misfeeds are because the gun is not suited to that shooter.  Sometimes that is hard to swallow if you are an experienced shooter.  I am happy with my two R9s.  If I were not I would just voice my reget and move on to another gun brand.  The way that Sawbones handled his dissapointment was a class act.

[harrydog]

I'm another of the "unlucky" ones who has had FTF problems with my R9. After speaking with Karl R. I'm going to give it another try using his suggestions and if the problem persists, I'll probably send it to him to go over personally.
The only problem with that is, others have still had problems with their guns even after they were returned to the factory.
Karl admitted to me that the R9 is just not for everyone, and that is proving to be more true than he ever thought it would when he first said it.  For example, he knows a guy who has Master status in IPSC and the guy can not fire a full mag through the R9 without a FTF. But Karl and others at the factory could not get the same gun to malfunction even when they tried. Go figure.
Karl and Eric are absolutely great guys who will go out of their way to make things right for you. That's rare these days. I'd love to be able to have complete confidence in my R9's reliability, but that's just not the case so far. I'm willing to give it some more time but if the gun requires a particular grip or shooting technique that is not natural for me, I don't think I could depend on it in a stressful situation, and stressful situations are when the gun would actually be put to use.
If I can't get it to work well for me, I'll sell it and regretfully move on.
What would be interesting to know, is if anyone who has had a FTF problem with their R9 has shot other R9s and had the same problem.

[BlueGrips]

I was just introduced into the world of 1911s of late and found out that even a $2000 to $5000 semi-custom-made gun cannot reliably feed all popular factory ammo, even some FMJs. This was the welcomed shock for me for my expectations were very high. But they were also unrealistic. What comforting, however, was that this specific custom gun manufacturer listed the recommended ammo by name & type known for reliable feeding. They even listed the ones they do not recommend. I liked that. It gives me a more realistic expectation for nothing man-made is perfect. And I am still a very happy camper and excited like a silly kid.

I also reported a FTF issue on this forum back in July and resolved it on my own. Since then, my R9 shoots reliably with GD124gr ammo and I will stick with this ammo for it works. I find that is very acceptable. And no need for any skateboard tape either:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1122326096;start=

Consumers of anything newly designed are usually excited for being the 1st buyers. What they hardly realize is that leading-edged is, at times, bleeding-edged! Growing pain is expected. And I am glad that this forum allows our beloved gun grow together.

But then again, 1911 designs aren't that new either; it's darn old!

Cheers!

[Erich]

MountainMan, thanks ever so much for the kind words.

Skyhook, again, I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties.

Zamboni, you should do whatever makes you comfortable. Myself, I'm fine with my R9s as a pocket gun for those situations when I otherwise wouldn't be able to carry due to mode of dress. I know it'll work once regardless of how I hold it (the only problems I've ever experienced with my odd-shaped hands are failure to feed) - and "bent over a car" (as you say), once would be enough. (And I might keep playing with my pistol to see if I can develop a one-hand hold that works for me. But that's up to me.) And my R9s has worked 100% for all my regular-handed gun friends so far.

I have to say, Zamboni, that I have found your tone to be a little strident on this page. I feel like you're acting frustrated with us but I don't understand why - certainly no one forced you to go buy TWO $1k guns that don't work for you. I don't think you should keep any product that doesn't make you comfortable - Rohrbaughs don't last a week in the stores here in New Mexico, so I suspect you'll be able to sell yours quickly.

[R9SCarry]

Really no need to add much - it has all been said very well by several in the last few posts.

I will emphasize what Cuteo said re some 1911's - even the real ''high end'' ones sometimes - a few guys have 100% success - and are all praise - then another has the exact opposite, with problems out the box.  These cost mega bucks too very often.

I do think also, and darned hard to really quantify this - it does seem with very small semi's that on occasions a gun just does not suit a shooter.  Again thinking 1911's - the Springer Micro has been loved and hated - a 3" version of JMB's masterpiece does seem potentially prone to problems sometimes - then, sometimes not!!

I think the R9 is ''on the edge'' somewhat as a platform - highly refined, exquisitely engineered but - in some ways pushing the envelope.  Add to that with its diminutive size - I really do not think there is any way it can perforce and automatically ''fit'' everyone - thus grip tape for some and not others etc - it is no failing of the gun and its design - these are personal preferences, just the same as we add Hogues to one gun and Pachmayrs to another.  Erich has well described his personal way of helping him with grip.

Each time I hear of someone's problem I sympathize greatly - made all the worse by knowing mine are just dandy!  I do empathize with Zamboni even tho his recent writings have been rather acerbic towards us here it seems.

[Richard S]

Zamboni:

Do you want to sell yours?  If so, I'm interested.  In case my "early bird" (No. 132) goes lame, I would like to have some spare parts.

[tracker]

Zamboni,
Well said; I think we all feel your frustration because
we are somewhat in this together. If some thought you
were a bit rough in tone you redeemed yourself very
well.