Author Topic: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings  (Read 11206 times)

Offline DDGator

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 01:51:16 PM »
I too assumed you would have some interest in selling them.  That not being the case, my interest level in the project has significantly declined!   ;)
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Offline billib

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2012, 02:07:08 PM »
DDGator fair enough. I'm a little guy. I couldn't
afford to produce them. I don't think this is the
same as machining some number of Magazine
Extensions. Not much investment or liability
their. A Guide Rod Laser is significantly different.
At least in my opinion.

Also, I think the point that DDGator made and was
missed was a valid one. He wasn't suggesting that
making a Guide Rod Laser was a patent problem but
that the SWITCH was. I think he's right on that point.

Making a Guide Rod Laser for the PUP should't be
that big of a deal for a firearm designer. You know,
like the Brothers Rohr. The Guide Rod clearly needs
to be redesigned. Simply sticking a little laser on the
end won't work on the current Guide Rod design.

Sadly, the 45 probably takes up most of the Brother
Rohr's time. This is way down on their To-Do List if
its their at all.

I'm probably one of the few thats interested in one.
If I could Bankroll the design and manufacture it
it would have a Green Daylight Laser. Not a Red one.

Right now I'm looking at Titanium tubes and rods that
may be suitable. Before I buy any I must redesign the
current Guide Rod first in my head (and I have a tiny
brain) then on paper.

Offline DDGator

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2012, 02:49:19 PM »
Still sounds like an interesting idea -- I was being somewhat fascetious.   :D

I would love to see Crimson Trace some out with a Lasergrip -- but the Rohrbaugh sales numbers wouldn't justify the R&D costs.

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Offline billib

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2012, 11:40:24 AM »
I was checking out the Patent on the PUP
to see if their were any potential problems
reproducing the Guide Rod. It (the Guide
Rod) isn't described well enough to have it
protected (covered) with the Patent on the PUP.

Heres the link:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6070512.PN.&OS=PN/6070512&RS=PN/6070512

Heres the Image, give it time to load:
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=06070512&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-adv.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPALL%2526S1%3D06070512%2526OS%3DPN%2F06070512%2526RS%3DPN%2F06070512&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

The only potential problem would be reproducing a
Crimson Trace "style" switch. Other than that.......
..........don't see any problems.........except actually
making it. HA! HA! HA!

Offline billib

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2012, 11:55:37 AM »
I found Crimson Trace holds 21 Patents on
various Lasers for guns. Couldn't find any
for the On/Off Switch. That doesn't mean
someone else doesn't hold a Patent on
the Switch, though.

Oops...........a switch:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=%22Crimson+Trace%22&OS=%22Crimson+Trace%22&RS=%22Crimson+Trace%22
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 11:58:33 AM by billib »

Offline billib

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2012, 03:56:35 PM »
Well, Daylight Visible (Green) Lasers
are now affordable. I picked one for
a whopping $5.81 with free shipping.
The remaining problem is powering
them. My Laser requires two AAA
batteries. Of course one 3volt
Lithium should work fine (better).
A 3volt Lithium wouldn't fit in the
Pup's Guide Rod position though.
We're still sneaking up on a
solution for those who would like
a Daylight Visible Laser that replaces
the Guide Rod.

I was playing with it yesterday after
I received it. Its clearly visible in the
sunshine from a reasonable distance.
Stay tuned!

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Offline Reinz

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2012, 12:11:55 AM »
Well it looks like you are on a mission.

Good Luck in your Quest.  :)
NRA- LIFE  TSRA- LIFE  SASS-LIFE

Offline T-Man

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2012, 05:22:31 PM »
I'm the GM and manufacturing engineer of a small machine shop.  Assuming there's enough available space for the laser, batts, and switching mechanism, I see no reason why I couldn't easily make a modified guide rod.  I also have Solidworks 3D design software, so I could design it and verify the design and function digitally before cutting the first chip.  The first problem is, given our overhead burden rate, unless someone ordered a bunch of them, they would be very expensive, as I'd have to devote time to CNC programming, setup, etc. 

Having said all that, I hate to dampen hopes, but I have serious doubts that this would work.  Even though the tiny "working" components of the laser appear to be small enough in diameter to fit in the available space below the barrel, you have to consider that there needs to be sufficient wall thickness between the inside diameter of the guide rod (which must be large enough to contain the laser mechanism and batts) and the guide rod outside diameter, to handle the loads exerted on the rod during firing.  The fact the recoil spring is having to do so much work due to the high recoil forces relative to the low slide mass (as evidenced by the 200 round max spring life recommendation) tells me the guide rod must have high compressive, tensile, and yield strength and stress crack propagation resistance, all of which does not favor a small diameter, thin walled tube.  So the remedy would be to increase the o.d. of the rod to increase wall thickness, which would then require a larger diameter spring of the correct spring resistance... and there's just not much room in the available space between the barrel and the frame to begin with. 

Then, assuming that hurdle was conquered, one would have to figure out how and where to contain the batteries and how to design the rod assy so it easily disassembles to access the batteries to replace as needed... which means not only would the hollow rod have a thin wall, but it would have to be a multi-piece design in order to access the batt compartment, which implies using threads or other locking mechanism in an already thin wall.  This introduces additional demands on available wall thickness and complexity of a part that by necessity has to be small.

Then, there's the aforementioned switching problem.  The available space is already limited, and unlike the full sized pistols the Lasermax rods are designed for, there is no external levers or other access points on the exterior of the R9 to retrofit a switch, without involving milling or drilling a switch containment or access feature somewhere on the frame, where there's precious little real estate.  Right off the top of my head, the only practical way of turning on the laser is by somehow designing the switch to activate when it contacts a stop as you rack the slide, and maybe turn off by itself with a timed electronic circuit.  Or, maybe the switch could be contained somewhere in the mag well and activated via an external button on the right side grip panel.  ????

I just don't see how this could work without completely redesigning the gun to accommodate it.  I certainly don't want to be pessimistic, as I'd love to have a guide rod laser for my R9 too.  I'm simply thinking out loud based on what I've learned from my career in manufacturing.  If anyone has any brilliant revelations on how to overcome these hurdles, I'm all ears and would certainly be willing to help.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 05:27:48 PM by T-Man »
Ted

Offline billib

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2012, 06:03:08 PM »
Hi T-Man, thanks for your input! All excellent points
and observations. I think that Titanium could be used
to make the Guide Rod so wall thickness probably isn't
an issue. Switching on the Laser could probably be
solved as well. The BIG issue for me would be powering
a GREEN daylight laser. Right now small enough batteries
that would fit inside of a Guide Rod wouldn't last very
long. That kinda' defeats the purpose of a sophisticated
sighting system. I think if it can only be counted on to
work at the Range with fresh batteries, then its a toy.
I don't consider guns to be toys.....fun, sure, toy....never!

Again, THANK YOU for such valuable input! I haven't
given up on my little Pup Laser Project but between
you, me and a fence post.........it'll probably be nothing
more than a oddity only suitable for the Range. In the
future.......I suspect many guns will have daylight Lasers
as an option when the Battery issue is solved.

Offline billib

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Re: *NEW* Rohrbaugh "Guide Rod Laser"......Musings
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 05:43:36 AM »
Crimson Trace has just introduced a series
of Green Lasers for popular firearms.
http://www.crimsontrace.com/products/type/green-lasers