Author Topic: SigSauer - What's Going On?  (Read 9306 times)

Offline whkrog

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SigSauer - What's Going On?
« on: March 07, 2010, 07:34:24 PM »
A rewording of a line from Shakespeare's Henry II Act III Scene II:
"For God's sake, let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of SIGs".
OK, the word should be 'Kings' but recent events have made me wonder.
First, I own two SigSauer pistols, a P250 compact and a full-size classic P226. (And I love my Rohrbaugh R9s). But here's the story. My P250 bought 3 months ago has always worked perfectly and is extremely accurate. My sister and brother-in-law were looking for a semi-auto 9mm pistol and after trying perhaps a dozen different makes/models, also like the P250 compact (with medium grips) since it fit both their hands and styles best.
After ordering, waiting and received theirs, we all went on to shooting. Soon found out two interesting things: SIG had in a short time and without any notice to dealers, accessory manufacturers, etc. significantly changed the design: First, accessories (like my LaserMax laser sight  and StreamLight tactical light) which USED to fit on the rail, can no longer can be mounted since SIG changed the curvature and depth of the grooves on what they advertise as a Picatinny rail. Second, all the magazines -- including those being sold everywhere by dealers -- for the new designs are NOT
compatible with the older ones; and SigSauer did not notify anyone of the changes, nor did they change the dealer part numbers. They kept the part number and
are now shipping magazines in the same plastic boxes, with just a small paper sticker on them saying 'new'.
I checked with LaserMax and they were likewise unaware of the changes, and thus that they were selling accessories which would no longer fit the P250. "Let the Buyer Beware".
As for SIG, after spending more than an hour on hold, their Customer Service Representative stated that the changes in the rail were made to 'go back to the original Picatinny rail design'). I think this answer was and is nothing but PR "Corpspeak".
The design standard for the Picatinny rail (MIL-STD-1913 REV A) was last changed on 10 JUNE 1999. STANAG 2324 was and is just an official  adoption of this design. This standard specifies precisely the cross-section of the rail body and the spacing, width and depth of the grooves. So either their original implementation on the 'Handgun of the Year' was incorrect, or the current one is incorrect, or -- possibly -- neither is compliant. Which is it?
Then, my sister's SIG P250 failed permanently (trigger mechanism failure - weapon would not load or fire) after about 200 rounds, requiring it  to be sent back to SIG for repair/replacement.
Second incident: while sister was still waiting for her SIG to be returned (don't bother trying to call SIG's customer service line: even the dealers
have to give up after an hour or so on hold), I sent my P226 back the the SIG Custom Shop for two things: to have new Meprolite Night Sights installed (this was done correctly) and for a 'Trigger Enhancement Package' designed to smooth out and somewhat equalize the DA/SA trigger pulls.
On receipt of my P226, I shipped it to Bob Cogan [of Accurate Plating and Weaponry/Cogan's Custom Shop (http://www.apwcogan.com)] for plating and some other work.
He immediately phoned me and told me that this pistol had been rendered Single-Action-Only and was extremely dangerous. The SIG armorer had returned the pistol as 'job completed and tested' when it actually would not cock and lock back the hammer when the slide was pulled.
You could manually cock the hammer back on a chambered round, but the trigger pull couldn't even be measured: it was on the order of a few ounces.
Dangerous? You bet. Anyway, Mr. Cogan took on the fight with SigSauer, and basically sent it back to SIG, where they returned the pistol back to
him, with a new, unmodified stock trigger system. Did I mention I'd already paid SigSauer for the 'upgrade'?
At any rate, Mr. Cogan will now and in future do all the work on my hanguns, and I will leave the people in Exeter, NH behind forever.
Having lived in Switzerland for several years in the late 1990's and used their products there, I've always had an admiration for  the quality of their work and their attention to design mechanics. Perhaps this is still the case, a few instances do not make a damning case against an entire large company -- I can personally state, however, that their 'customer service' in multiple cases here seems to be pretty lacking.

Offline tracker

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 08:02:34 PM »

whkrog;

Although I own several Sigs made in Germany my gunsmith alerted me to a possible compromise in quality a couple of years ago. Against his advice I bought a Sig Mosquito and traded it two days later for a Glock after one unpleasant range experience.
Something is severely amiss at Sig.

Offline whkrog

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 10:13:26 PM »
Indeed, it appears to me that 'something is going on' and likely it is not for the best, as far as consumers are concerned. Personally and at this time, I feel no inclination towards purchasing any of their existing or upcoming products, and will no longer send any of my SIG arms to the manufacturer for work -- I'll let Bob Cogan (a master, and a truly and really good person) do this work now and in the future.
I'm interested if anyone else has had experiences like this, although I realize this is a rather limited forum.

ccoorreeyy

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 10:30:36 PM »
I have a couple experiences in Bob doing TOP SHELF work for me but dont have any Sig experiences.

Offline Chief-USN

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2010, 08:22:12 AM »
I have a 20 year old Sig 228 that has many thousands of rounds through it. No problems, and still accurate. I also carried a 228 prior to buying one for myself.  Glad you told us all this about the new guns.

 Chief
Allen
Retired Navy (1969-1992)
Viet Nam Vet
Desert Storm Vet
Lifetime NRA Member

Veteran " Freedom isn't free, I Paid for it"

Offline Dino

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2010, 09:49:49 AM »
Whkrog, Sig did post the changes to the grip and the mag on the website when they made the changes.  I  printed and kept the post as I knew one day it would cause me problems with my compact P250.  You can go to the Sig website and look under, "Product Alerts", and print if you like.

https://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/Product-Alerts.aspx

One another note I like the new grip and they sell them for $45, however you are right I would have to buy a new mag also.  

If your sister would like the old style grip mine is as new and she is welcome to it along with my mag if she wanted to trade.

I will not hang a light on mine so it does not make any differance to me.  

I have a subcompact 357 conversion kit on order from Sig and will not use the light rail on that configuration, if it ever arrives.

Sorry to here about your problems with your 250 hope you have better luck in the future.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 01:59:45 PM by Dino »

Offline sslater

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 12:12:39 AM »
Whkrog,

I'm sorry to hear SigSauer is going downhill.  Sounds like they're on the Colt trajectory.

I have a Sig P239 in .40 S&W, and it has been terrific.  Totally reliable, accurate, handy size.  When I got it about 4 or 5 years ago, I had to take it to the local police department for the "safety check" (requirement since dropped).  A detective walked by, looked at my gun and said, "239.  Good gun.  That's what I carry."  And he pulled back his suit coat to show it to me.  That made my day.

Your sister's problems with her P250 bother me because I've had my eye on one of those modular wonders since they hit the market.  The thought of having a convertible pistol appeals to me.  Guess I'll wait and see if Sig shakes off their slump.

Steve      

Offline whkrog

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 02:28:56 AM »
Other than what has been previously mentioned, SIG has come out with a new product (you can only find it if you look for 'new procucts' on theie website: "The P20 2SUM): so now in abox you can by TWO of the different sized P50's, and a great discount. This tends of couse to p**s off the customers in the few months before this 'offer' who paid full dealer price for only ONE P25); actual example::; $654.00 for one P250 conpact, versus $759 for TWO GUNS -- the same P20 compact AND a subcompact or full size.
Smeone might was to tell the people in NH, that Americans don't really appreciate to be hosed like this, and we do tend to remember.Oh, refunds on the diffence? NOPE.

Offline Dino

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 08:30:18 AM »
Well said Whkrog,  just like me, paid $650 for my P250 compact and now have a subcompact conversion on order for $375, do the math.

Bad news, I placed the order for the 357sig conversion in November and was told I might get it by or just after Christmas.

Maybe I should drop the order?

Offline kjtrains

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 11:22:28 AM »
Dino.  That is a long wait.  Maybe you could ask them what the holdup is?  You may have done that; just a thought.
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline whkrog

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2010, 09:36:06 PM »
On a happier note, I received my SIG P226 back from AP&W today. (http://www.apwcogan.com).
It used to be a good pistol.
Now it's a great pistol, and a work of art also.

Offline kjtrains

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 09:41:49 PM »
That is an excellent looking Sig!
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline Richard S

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2010, 10:22:46 AM »
Quote
On a happier note, I received my SIG P226 back from AP&W today. (http://www.apwcogan.com).
It used to be a good pistol.
Now it's a great pistol, and a work of art also.

That beauty really shows off Bob Cogan's touch. Congratulations!
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"

Offline Reinz

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2010, 07:57:24 PM »
Whkrog - what a beauty!  Thanks for sharing, and updating us on the new hosing of Sig.

While admitting to being an owner of at least 4 Sigs, I have succombed to the "in vogue" pistols of the day and purchased some Sigs; only to be disappointed and going limp.

They just can't get the rise that a good quality 1911 will bring,
Or Rohrbaugh!

But I do admit  Sig did get it right with the X-5 series of 226's.
Those are a different animal that I do like, while pricey.

The new news that you bring now totally turns me off to all Sig products if that is how they treat their customers and market their products.

Reinz
NRA- LIFE  TSRA- LIFE  SASS-LIFE

Offline tracker

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Re: SigSauer - What's Going On?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2010, 09:24:22 PM »

Everything considered, nothing shoots and feels better than a good 1911, new, old, or otherwise.